The wife of my best friend from high school had an affair about 5-7 years into the marriage. They had two small kids at the time.

They stayed married for about another 4-5 years. They finally split up.

She was chronically depressed. It was this depression that probably led her to her affair with a married former BF.

At the time I really didn't know what to say when he told his group of friends. My recollection was that the majority gave the typical "dump her" advice.

On DDay2 I called him to talk about my W's affair since I knew he was the one non-MB type person who could relate. He asked what I was going to do. I told him I was undecided.

I asked his opinion.

Still haven't taken his advice, though.

Mac

<small>[ March 16, 2005, 02:46 PM: Message edited by: cwmac ]</small>

the double-post graemlin hit again...either that, or I tried to go back and change the post after I hit submit....nawww...couldn't be that, right? <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" />

<small>[ March 16, 2005, 03:10 PM: Message edited by: penguin ]</small>

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by wiegee:
<strong>The OP disregarded the vow of your marriage = bad.

You disregard the bond of the OP/XS marriage = good.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">My view is that these two states are not comparable. Apples and oranges. Honorable and dishonorable.

I cannot speak to the "sacredness", or lack thereof, of these marriages. My views are in regard to promises made, promises broken. If a marriage promise was tossed aside once before, isn't the value or worth of another such promise lesser? Seems intuitive to me.

Further, I am in no position to "disregard" another marriage. I would not feel free to boink a woman just because she was not "properly" married in this context. So "disregard" is maybe not the right term.

But I have no respect or admiration for my XW's marriage to OM. You would agree that it is of lesser makeup than an unsoiled one, right?

But your use of the term "double standard" is amusing to me. How ironic. I guess this really is all about double standards. An "original" solid gold standard vs a lesser, subsequent, tin plated one.

When/if I remarry, I'd invite my former wife to "value" my new marriage. I am sure she will not value it as much as I do - nor can she, being incapable of recognizing its worth.

Wanna try again?

WAT

I have a completely different view on this...

What does it matter?

What I mean by that is - whether or not the marriage is "real" depends on the hearts and on the actions of the two people involved, doesn't it? I mean, sure, it's a 'legal' marriage, and whether or not it's legitimate in the eyes of God seems to be up for debate depending on your religion. But the only thing that truly matters is if the two people involved have the same cavalier attitude about that marriage as they did about their previous marriage, or if they've learned something and changed.

And if they truly have learned and grown, and are committed to a real marriage, what do other peoples' opinions on that marriage matter?

I can honestly say that if my XH does marry OW, I will probably never recognize it as a legitimate marriage. Why? He didn't finish things with me. Oh, we had a divorce, but he didn't really ever actually deal with anything with us. And she will always be the woman who took an active part in breaking up our marriage. I'm not saying it's all her fault, not by a long shot, but as far as I'm concerned, she could never be legitimate with him, because of the way things came about.

But their reactions to that are what is telling to me. They began calling her is fiance before we had even started the divorce paperwork. I refused to call her that. When I had to refer to her, she was either "your girlfriend," or "that woman you're living with." This really bugged both of them to no end. They felt the need to frequently tell me that she was his fiancee and they were getting married. She sent me a Christmas card (yes, a Christmas card) signed from the "WH's last names."

Why was it so important to them that I acknowledge the relationship. If they were so happy and in love and all, shouldn't that have been enough? I know when I fell in love, I wanted everyone to feel that way. I didn't want to use it to rub in someone's face and try to make them feel humiliated. (It didn'tmake me feel that way, by the way. I just laughed, and called her his girlfriend again.)

I think it's pretty understandable that BSs won't see a marriage as a result of an A as legitimate. And I think that if that marriage is in the right place, and it's ok, it won't matter to the people in the marriage what anyone else thinks.

(I'm starting a new thread. I've threadjacked enough here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> )

(Starting a new thread to reply. I've threadjacked too much here <img border="0" title="" alt="[Frown]" src="images/icons/frown.gif" /> )

I concur w/ Penguin on every point. Since we don't know the specific circumstance of every M or A (we all have skeletons in our closets), how could we possibly pass judgement on someone's M? Just my 2 cents worth.

~ Whisper

PS - To Penguin: So very sorry you had to endure that awful experience.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by whisper28:
<strong> how could we possibly pass judgement on someone's M? </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">I did, above. It was quite easy.

Note I passed judgement on the marriage of my XW to my former friend, OM. Would you like to defend it, admire it, pass judgement on it as honorable??

I did not pass judgement on any other marriage, not having sufficient info.

I'm gonna retire from this topic. I couldn't care less about some infidels' marriage. I have no respect for it nor the "owners" of it.

Here's an interesting question (for me, at least): I have tremendous respect and admiration for WSs who come to recognize their affairs as improper and unhealthy for all and reverse their decisions. I admire their recovery, new found integrity, and courage to face whoever they have to to make amends - including participants on this forum. Bravo! But how would WSs who marry their affair partners at the expense of broken homes gain my admiration and respect (not that they want it)? What test should they pass before I view them, e.g., as potential friends? What would they have to do before I trust them? I honestly do not know the answer to that. I'll have to think about it. Maybe it's not possible.

WAT

<small>[ March 16, 2005, 04:34 PM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

dont know if anyone asked this of wiegee but here goes. How do you know his xw told him to "go find someone else for sf?" did she tell you that personally? Or did you just hear it from a man who lied to his first family, what makes you think he's telling you the truth?

Well I don't know of any affair marriages that didn't last, but I can tell you about an affair that didn't last...

My exW/WW moved in with OM and they lived happily for about a year and a half. Not... They lived with one another for a year and a half, but I can tell you it wasn't happily. My Ds saw them fight like crazy. I saw my exWs truck that she crashed because of one of their fights. I also know she turned OM in to the cops for drunk driving and he lost his license. What a happy couple they were. All the while, I went through hell but got stronger and better. We are 3 months divorced and she is no longer with OM. She is going through bankruptcy and has had to borrow money from her mother just to get by. Yep, affairs are awesome for some people...

So, do affair marriages last? I don't know, but had my exW and her OM gotten married, I can pretty much guarantee that it wouldn't have lasted...

That's good enough for me! The fact is, I have been hearing about statistics for so long (i.e., that affair relationships have very little chance of surviving, and yet, the ones I've seen seem to be doing fine. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Confused]" src="images/icons/confused.gif" /> It is comforting to know that most of them don't. Again, my H and the OW have sent out wedding invitations while my D still won't be final for another two months!!! Geez....

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by Getting_Stronger:
<strong> It is comforting to know that most of them don't. </strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">And most of the OP`s are sane. Your OW is not. She`s a nut. I don`t give this new M a snowball`s chance in h*ll. I doubt the wedding will even occur.

Get yourself some popcorn...a big cool drink and sit and watch the show... <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> It will have a spectacular finale.

You're a doll and you made my night. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="images/icons/grin.gif" /> It's true that the OW is a nutcase. I just can't understand how my H, who was so steadfast for 10 years, has become someone else seemingly overnight, and has become smitten with this other person. You're right - the good part of the show hasn't yet begun....

Hi - My only concern is that the statistics quoted in the affair recovery literature are chosen for their impact. In other words, that they quote studies and surveys whose results point in the direction we're after. I wonder if there are unbaised studies???

double

<small>[ March 18, 2005, 11:34 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

triple

<small>[ March 18, 2005, 11:35 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

Sheese, what's up with this thing?

<small>[ March 18, 2005, 11:36 AM: Message edited by: worthatry ]</small>

I believe Pittman's stats are neutral, but hard to argue that they don't have high uncertainty - in either direction.

</font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Originally posted by circe:
<strong> surveys whose results point in the direction we're after.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Arial">Which direction are you after?

WAT

I'm after the direction where A relationships end up crashing and burning, big time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="images/icons/wink.gif" />