Since I met my H 7 yrs ago I've felt like I was in a relationship with an alcoholic or drug addict. He acted just like one (I know from experience), but he doesn't use drugs and only drank on occasion. But he LIES, LIES, LIES. He's been lying to me about stuff since we met! He always had a great explanation, or this was the last time ("I swear!"), blah, blah... He lies about stupid little things, and bigger things. Things that he will definitely get caught lying about, like: "Did you wash the teapot?"; "Yes."; "But, I can see that it's not clean."; "Well, okay, I didn't really wash it." Then there's the women that he would hit on in front of me. I honestly didn't think he would actually do anything like get involved, emotionally or otherwise. He lies so much that HE doesn't even know what's true. I watch him tell one person one thing and another person another thing. He'll tell me something then contradict himself to someone else in front of me. He called me thurs night late and mentioned he had been working past 10pm. Yesterday he told a good friend in front of me that he worked until exactly 9:15pm that night. He has a horrible memory.<P>A couple of years ago he told our marriage counsellor that he thought he had a sexual problem. She insisted that he didn't, but he persisted. He thought he wanted it too much (I have no idea what he was talking about, we had sex all the time and I never turned him down. I enjoyed it.) The issue died when we moved and stopped seeing that counsellor.<P>Does he have some problem? He says he can't control himself. I don't know if that's a cop-out or the truth. How can he get help? All these years in therapy haven't made a difference.<P>Lizbeth

hello? is that MY husband? (have you seen divorce records-bigamy is a real issue ahahhahaha).<BR>geez, i don't get it, either.<BR>My H finally went to a psychiatrist (not just a counselor, but a real md who can give drugs), and was diagnosed with bipolar disorder (manic depression), but he only has the manic/hyper part of it, he is never depressed. He also had some kind of head injury (and there really is an indentation on the side of his skull), and the dr wants to run all kinds of tests to see if brain surgery would help.<BR>I think it is the mania that has made him lie and lie (he never shuts up, it can't be ALL truth!). The dr put him on a 'downer' sort of drug, and it seems to be helping (well, since he is not living with me, i suspect he might just be calm enough to lie better. ugh).<BR>I wonder if your H's insurance would cover a visit to a psychiatrist? all those therapists never mentioned anything? did he fool them too?<BR>of course, getting him to go would be a whole 'nother issue, huh?<BR>rotsa ruck,<BR>julie

We've moved often,so he's never seen the same therapist for more than a year. I think he fools them. It seems that I'm one of the only people who knows what he is truly like. <P>His current therapist suggested antidepressants earlier this year, but then they agreed that his problems are behavioral, not chemical. <BR>love WAS blind, my H talks ALL the time. I thought he was hyperactive, or maybe just energetic. He's an extrovert, so he tends to talk before he thinks.<P>Lizbeth

I used to wonder if my H was a pathological liar also, but came to realize that his has more to do with conflict avoidance. He lies to tell you what you want to hear. He also has a poor memory, but I think his has more to do with the fact that he is only saying what I/they want to hear. <BR>

I decided a few years ago that this problem was his way of avoiding conflict. But there's the other aspects of his behavior that bother me, like the severe verbal abuse, the exreme mood swings, and unpredictability. He can become completely irrational and do things like drive recklessly with our kids in the car (I have many witnesses). He yells at strangers in public if they've done something he doesn't like, like driving recklessly. I find his behavior disturbing.

Hi, mine is a lier too. He did see phyciatrists. I got tired of all the games-so I started going to talk to the phyciatrists. The first time I asked to talk with H and me and phy. in room. When I called him on his lies he became furious. Told me the hospital kicked me out and I could not come there again. I laughed-but I continued to call the different ones and they started listening. He is not nearly the lier he was-once in a while, I guess old habits die hard. It was all worth it, but took me a few years to get up the courage to confront as my H use to have real anger problem. I just kept telling him that he acted like a child and couldn't control me with his tantrums. His anger has subsided from help with counceling and them telling me to take a stand with this kind of behavior. Hope this helps. It's worth a shot. <BR>Ginn<p>[This message has been edited by Ginn7777 (edited August 16, 1999).]

The line between "behavioral" problems and "chemical" problems is only drawn by the professional one sees. I spent five years studying psychology, and the universal truth, as the studies i read found it to be, was that drugs are more effective than talk therapy. <BR>Not very hopeful, huh? It all depends on which DR your H sees.<BR>My psychiatrist (i was seeing him for post partum depression) gave me some valium when i told him about H's affair. Several other professionals i talked to were simply shocked that he would prescribe such an antiquated and addictive substance, but i'll tell you what, it has really has gotten me through the year of hell since discovery (talk about preventing lovebusters!-mother's little helper, for sure)<BR>Anyway, for everyone's sake, i hope your H gets ANY kind of help, and that it actually WORKS. A good therapist will set reachable, behavioral, observable goals, and you should see progress on a weekly basis-otherwise it is a waste of time and money.<BR>I have been putting up with H's cr@p for a loooong time, too, so i wish it were as easy as that. I don't want you to think im just butting in <BR>hang in there,<BR>julie<BR><P>------------------<BR>for better or for worse, in sickness and in health, for richer or for poorer, till death do us part.<P><BR>

Ginn7777, what did your H's psychiatrists do? Did it help his behavior?<P>love WAS blind, thanks for the info. I had suspected that much depends on the therapist's perceptions. I'm not one to take meds, not even tylenol. But for extreme cases in the short term I will make an exception. I'm on lorazepam (valium-type drug) right now. I was ready to leave my kids and start a new life in another country before I started taking it.<P>I guess the question is, how to find a really good DR that my H will actually see?

lizbeth, pathological, or not, i don't know. lier? i would have to say, yes. it doesn't matter if it's a diagnosed condition, does it? my father is a lier. my w discovered he also cheats at simple table games, like dimones. my father will tell the same story to several different people but put a very different spin on it each time. he seems to exaggerate and tell people what they want to hear or what will impress them. he will be blue for me and green for you and yellow for the next person. he seems to have no concern or guilt about lieing. now that i'm 51 yrs. old, i can look back and remember so many things he lied about. i can also evaluate him from my now mature self. i don't even talk to him anymore. what's the point. i might as well be talking to any street person. there is no real person there. i never know what to believe so i can't believe anything so what's the point. <BR>i suggest to anyone, if your partner cheats at cards or anyother table game or lies or steals lose change, to get rid of them. there has got to be something seriously wrong with someone who, as a family member, are compealed to steal- your trust. i think such a person is pathological.<BR>i think everyone will agree that some lieing is ok, providing they're white lies. we, as individuals, have to decide if the lie is white or not. the white ones tend to help people and make life more plesant and they're not about anything serious. my w asks me if she looks fat in an outfit. i will tell her she doesn't, unless it really looks bad on her or if i think something else might be better. i put, what i believe to be her best interest, first and answer as honestly as i would want her to be with me. i wouldn't want her to say, to me, well yea, you look fat in those shorts. when she knows i don't have anything any better and i've got to go out anyway.

Hi...the depressional specialist I talked to at Johns Hopkins said that these people aren't lying outright, but that their reality is so disjointed, they make it up as it goes...therefore; because they 'think' something is true then it must be true. My husband has told people that I am on vacation and the next day they see me and ask when I got back from vacation. When I confront him with this he answers "Why would I say you are on vacation if you aren't?" hey, big guy...exactly...but he can't make the connection...and he won't take meds...I have said that these people will trust a Columbian drug cartel or the Budweiser company before they will trust McKesson Drug company or their own physician.

Frankie, your Father sounds just like my H. <BR>Teacher47, my H definitely believes himself when he says these things. That's why I believe whatever he says, because he's SO sincere.<P>It's good to hear that I'm not the only person who has to deal with a loved one who's dishonest. It's like our whole relationship is a mirage. When I try to get close and see it for what it truly is, there's nothing there.<P>I called his therapist and asked if I could share my concerns with her. She said no, but that I could if I came in for a session with my H. She decided to talk to him about it, and said I'd hear from him or her. She saw him later that day, but he hasn't mentioned a thing to me. Wish me luck!<P>Lizbeth

What's with all the lying? Is it something in the water, or what? I used to think my husband wasn't lying, simply embellishing the facts. The past few years, I have come to realize that he lies, and doesn't even know it, and then when I catch him in a lie, he lies to cover up the lie he just told. GEEZ!!! Point in fact. My husband quit smoking about 16 years ago. About 4 years ago, I noticed when he came home from work, he would smell like tobacco. I could taste it when I kissed him, as well. When I asked him if he was smoking again, he got very indignant, and told me it was ME I was smelling and tasting (I am a smoker.) After 4 or 5 times asking him, I just gave up, and started to think it was my imagination, and I might add, I felt very bad about it. After all, what reason would he have to lie to me? Anyway, we moved to the country 2 years ago, and about 3 months after moving here, my husband was doing work around the side of the house. I guess he didn't hear me coming, and when I rounded the corner, yup, there he was, with a cigarette in his mouth. When he saw me there, he tried to hide it in the palm of his hand. What does he think I am? His Mother or something? I was so disgusted with him, not for smoking, but for lying about it, I threw my hands in the air without a word, and went back in the house. He followed me, and admitted that yes, he was smoking. How could he deny it? He explained the situation, and of course, it was MY fault he had started again. Two years prior, I had had surgery, and they discovered I had cancer. So, he left the hospital, and bought some cigarettes. Makes perfect sense to me!!! When I told him that I was the bigger fool for continuing to smoke, who would I be to tell him off? Anyway, he got honest? and told me how long he had smoked, how often (just 1 or 2 per day, because he really doesn't have to smoke) and even the brand he was smoking. Of course, he doesn't inhale. DUH!! Total honesty, you say? Like hell. While rummaging in his workshop, I came upon his cigarettes (hidden, do you believe it?) and he had lied about the brand. He doesn't smoke in front of me, and I have asked him many times why. He tells me that I make enough of a smell, so he would prefer to smoke outside. Meanwhile, he has left enough butts in the toilet to clog it up permanently. He obviously suffers from some kind of disorder, but be damned if I know what it is. So, when I confronted him with what I considered to be concrete proof of him having had an affair with my sister, he looked so hurt, and denied it, of course. I told him I knew he was lying, and he asked me what reason would he have to lie to me? Remember the cigarette incident? In marriage counselling, I brought up numerous points about him and my sister, one of them being that I had come upon them many times "whispering" in the corner of the kitchen. Of course, again I was mistaken, and he denied it wholeheartedly. He denied it, until I threatened to bring my son and daughter in law in with me, as they had also witenssed it 3 times in one night, and had told me about it. It was truly a miracle. He suddenly remembered that he HAD been whispering, but he can't recall at all what they had been saying. Meanwhile, he had no problem relating an incident to the counsellor when I had dumped a can of spaghetti sauce over his head, 32 years ago. He even knew it was meatless Bravo. Go figure that one! Not only can he lie, he is also suffering from a form of "Tourettes Syndrome." He says the most inappropriate things at times, as well as continual flirting. He has been like this most of our marriage, and it really has not bothered me, up until now. Mainly because it was always done in front of me, in a very joking manner, but, then again, so was the flirting with my sister done in front of me, and look at where that ended up. It has now come to the point that when he tells me that he loves me, I actually wonder if he really does. When he tells me that I am so beautiful, I question if that is really what he thinks, or if he thinks that is what I want to hear. I would like to think that he is sincere, but with his track record, I couldn't even take a guess. So, I sit here, week by week, trying to make this marriage work, and wondering what the final outcome will be. After all, how can you try and rebuild a marriage, when the foundation is made up of lies? On the plus side, I have noticed his nose growing in the past year, so maybe the myth of lie telling is true. Of course, if I mentioned this to him, he would tell me that it is not his nose that is growing, but his face that is getting smaller! Ha. Ha. <BR>Take care.<P>------------------<BR><P><BR>

why me, sounds just like my H! I just don't get it!

Hi all, love the last post! made me laugh. What I did with my H is use some reverse phyc. The first time he had a sex thing with some lady (ha, prostitute) he lied to me, and lied to me. Thought it was some kind of game. (he also used to cheat at games) I hate to be lied to so I reversed it and told him that I had cheated on him, I know that was a lie, but it worked. He got really freaked out but I asked him how it felt to be lied too. He then told me the truth. When ever we played cards he would cheat. I started calling him on it every time and also told others playing with him that he cheated. He quit doing it. When ever he smoked pot I would confront him by making a joke out of it. That one kinda backfired on me, he started thinking it was ok and smoked more often. That's the only one I kinda give up on. I also talked to his Dr's. and exposed alot of the bulls**t. It has taken a long time and a lot of exposure with his Dr's to get him to be more honest. My parent's taught me tecniques as a kid. They told me not to sit in front of the wall heater with a pillow for fear of fire. Well guess what I did, yep, I caught the pillow on fire. Scared the beegepers out of me. I threw the pillow over my Grandpa's fence next door after putting it out in the bath tub. I figured they would never find it. Well they did and they had my brother downstairs talkin to him about it. Said they were going to spank him for it. Figured I wouldn't tell the truth. Well I fessed up to it because I couldn't stand to see my brother get spanked for something I did. They rewarded me for telling the truth and never said another word or punished me for it. Said they were proud of me telling the truth. They must of seen how pale I was about the discovery. I hate being lied to so I go to drastic means to get the truth. It has worked, my H is much more truthfull, which is quite an improvement from when we first were married and especially for a person with BPD.<BR>Ginn