Whenever I see an elderly couple now, I begin to wonder what kinds of things they've been through. I wonder if any of them have experienced infidelity and conquered it. I wonder if they were able to really attain a happy, successful, fulfilling marriage as a result, or whether they just gave up and settled. I want to know so badly if they were once where a lot of us are right now.<P>The only couple in their 70's or over that I know of who are both still alive and still together are my in-laws, but I've always felt their relationship lacks closeness. My father in-law rarely talks and they don't share any interests. They do go on a lot of trips together, but it seems they do it more out of convenience and obligation than anything else. There is no ugliness between them, in fact my H says he has never even seem them fight or have a serious disagreement. (Probably because his father rarely says more than 3 words!!!) But I just don't get the impression that they really enjoy each other.<P>So, I am craving to talk with couples who have learned some hard lessons and made some devastating mistakes, like most of us on this forum, but HAVE rebuilt their marriages into successful, healthy and fulfilling unions.<P>Wouldn't it be WONDERFUL if Dr. Harley could create a forum for those couples to post on where we could ask them questions and gain some insight. I know we all rely on each other, but none of us is really "out of the woods" yet. We're all still in the trenches fighting our own battles. Sometimes when I read others' posts crying for help, I feel so inadequate. I mean, what the heck do I know???<P>Anyway, just some of my musings. I hope everyone is having a positive weekend.<p>[This message has been edited by new woman (edited August 15, 1999).]

i often wonder the same things, how do people stay married so long after going thru the hard times. I am sure there are older people out there whi have had some tough struggles and made it through and are now happily together.We need to know their secrets!!!!<BR>Your in-laws might be happy together, some couples appear happy and really aren't, so maybe some dont show it, but they are happy?? don't know,, something to think about!

New woman, Hi, there is a book by Dr. Dobson that answers your questions. His wisdom and insight are excellant. The book I have been reading is called "Dr. Dobson answers your questions". Good reading for all of going through this difficult time and how to maintain a healthy respect for ourselves and our mate. He explains how to have a healthy life time marriage. Not built on the "falling in love" or "infatuation" or as Dr. Harley says? the "addiction" to the OP, but true love that is nurtured and grows.<BR>--------------------------------------<BR>Quote Dr. Dobson: "How should a woman/man respond when she/he reads the cues and realizes that her/his husband/wife feels trapped? Obviously, the worst thing she/he could do is reinforce the cage around him/her, yet that is likely to be her/his initial reaction."<BR>Quote Dr. Dobson: "I am merely suggesting that self-respect and dignity be maintained in the relationship."<BR>Quote Dr. Dobson: "Real love, in contrast to popular notions, is an expression of the deepest appreciation for another human being; it is an intense awarness of his or her needs and longings-past, present, and future. It is unselfish and giving and caring. And believe me, these are not attitudes one "falls" into at first sight, as though we were tumbling into a ditch."

Hi Patty,<P>Well, I didn't mean it to sound like my in-laws are miserable. That isn't the case. They've been married for over 43 years, so they are definitely "content" with each other and their relationship "works" for them. What I should have said is that I could never be happy in a relationship like that where there is no talking and everything is assumed. Their family is like that in so many ways. Sometimes I ask my H questions about his family and he honestly doesn't know the answer. It's like none of them know who each other are. Very weird. <P>But I guess the couples I'm referring to, the ones whom I would love to pick their brains are the elderly couples you see sitting closely, holding hands, and talking A LOT! I've decided that my gauge for determining whether or not a relationship is healthy is watching how and how much they talk to each other. When we go out to restaurants, I always take inventory of the couples in the room. I figure the ones who are sitting in complete silence, staring directly into their plates and eating without so much as a glance up at their partner are relationships that are not healthy. Even if neither spouse has the emotional need of conversation, communication is the only way to get to really know the other person inside. So, I just can't see how you can have emotional intimacy without talking.<P>Ginn,<P>Does Dr. Dobson's book contain input from other couples beside him and his wife? I guess I feel like I want to hear from regular, every day people, not necessarily ministers, writers or celebrities (not saying they aren't regular! ) <P>------------------<BR>Love is meant to heal. Love is meant to renew. Love is meant to oust all fear. Love is meant to harmonize differences. Love is meant to bring us closer to God.

They say everyone feels 25 inside no matter if they are old and gray. So, to answer your question NW, those old folks just keep trying like their younger counterparts. I am a Grandmother and have been married 32 years. I am in the recovery stage of infidelity as well. I want romantic love until they put me in the ground. No silent status quo marriage for me. I thought my life was fine until it changed in one split second. I never dreamed my husband would be unfaithful. Yes, I'm sure there are alot of older folks out there who are survivors and need to speak out. But of course Adultery is still the unforgiveable sin, or so it seems. I don't have all the answers but maybe I've got a little more age to lend to the subject. Experience is something the majority of us do not have going in, we are all novices. Survival is in the wisdom of God. Sometimes people get tired of the battle when they are older and quit trying. I don't think, in fact I know that isn't what God would have for any of His children. Just read the Song of Solomon and you'll see real romantic love.<P>------------------<BR>eyes wide open<BR>

They say everyone feels 25 inside no matter if they are old and gray. So, to answer your question NW, those old folks just keep trying like their younger counterparts. I am a Grandmother and have been married 32 years. I am in the recovery stage of infidelity as well. I want romantic love until they put me in the ground. No silent status quo marriage for me. I thought my life was fine until it changed in one split second. I never dreamed my husband would be unfaithful. Yes, I'm sure there are alot of older folks out there who are survivors and need to speak out. But of course Adultery is still the unforgiveable sin, or so it seems. I don't have all the answers but maybe I've got a little more age to lend to the subject. Experience is something the majority of us do not have going in, we are all novices. Survival is in the wisdom of God. Sometimes people get tired of the battle when they are older and quit trying. I don't think, in fact I know that isn't what God would have for any of His children. Just read the Song of Solomon and you'll see real romantic love.<P>------------------<BR>eyes wide open<BR>

Hi, gang.<P>Well, my story might be of interest since I'm sixty-one and my wife is fifty-eight and we were childhood friend in high school. We have been very much in love ever since we got engaged forty-one years ago. Except for one glitch.<P>My wife and I have been married for forty years. In the second through fourth years of our marrriage she had an affair with her boss and deeply loved him. I never suspected a thing. Three years after it ended (we moved across the country)she told me that it had happened but gave me very few details: that they had sex in the office (she was his only employee) and in the nearby forest. She asked if I remembered one day when she had come home and rushed directly to the bathroom instead of coming to me for the usual hug and kiss. I thought I did remember that happening once. She then said that it was because they had been making love under the pine trees that afternoon and her dress was covered with pine needles and she didn't want me to see her state. And, at some point in the affair, he urged her to leave me and move with him to Australia. Outwardly, her lover was a devoted husband/father with a wife and three kids. <P>The above stuff was told to me by my wife 34 years ago and I thought she would tell me the rest in due time. However, at this point, I believe she fully intends to take it to her grave without sharing it with me. It has come to obsess me - not being included in the knowledge of the details. Do I deserve to know the answers to the many questions that haunt me? <P>Though this stuff is a pain, I love her dearly. We recently celebrated our fortieth anniversary with a non-religious ceremony. Our sex life is dynamite, averaging over ten times a month. She is very responsive in bed.<P>The only missing element the fact that she had that intimate relationship with her boss ever so long ago and won't answer my questions regarding it. It has only become a problem for me a few months ago when I realized that, after thirty-four years, she still has the answers and I don't. After that long a time, I'm sure I never will be told. Last month I brought it up and she became very angry, stating that "I was a naive nineteen-year-old and didn't know better". Hmmm.<P><P>------------------<BR>Onward and Upward !<P>Sid

Hey Sid,<P>Let see...solid marriage for decades since affair...great sex every 3 days...I think I'll louse it up and bring up the distant past.<P>Resist that urge, let it die. Why get learned when you can get laid?<BR>

My parents recently celebrated their 50th anniversary. I'm lucky as I've witnessed 35 of those years together. And I can tell you that they had their ups and downs. But what I witnessed is that they loved each other enough to protect one another. No one said a less then good thing about my mother in my father's presence, and vise verse. They are each others biggest cheerleader. My parents respect each other.<BR>I've enjoyed a very close relationship with them, maybe because I'm the baby, maybe because I've been around, I don't know why. But I know about their early years, when things were very turbulant. They even separated for awhile, because of various things, but got back together. They lost a child (he lived just a few hours), they've had financial difficulties, raised kid that were difficulat as teenager (myself included), raise one of the grandchildren, because my sister took a very long time in settling down......what I'm trying to say is that their marriage was not (is not) without lifes ups and downs, but each knew that the other was there for them no matter what.<BR>And this is what I see lacking in my own marriage. <BR>Just my own experiences, as a child of one of those older couples......

Sid,<BR>I understand your need for the "details". I feel exactly the same way and would do anything for the blanks to be filled in. I have gotten some through the OW and my H but I also found the devil's in those details. It seems to be a need to understand the "why that keeps us on the quest for info. If we can just find an explanation somewhere we think it will all make sense! Not sure that will ever be the case. <P>Just wanted you to know that a senior citizen out there understands your need for details.<P>------------------<BR>eyes wide open<BR>

My parents have been married for about 36 years. They definately have had their share of problems. My dad was an alcoholic for about 15 years in the early part of their marriage, with the worst occuring over a five year period. As a young adult full of questions over the failure of my first marriage (he was a sex addict), I found out that infidelities had occured during my father's alcoholism. They too had been separated for a short time after I left home at 18. They somehow managed to get through all of that. They both say the last 15 years have been very happy, and they both look like lovesick teenagers together now. Yes, they still have problems and the daily irritations, but they never stop trying and never stop believing in love. That is the lesson they taught me through all of that. To grow together involves struggle, pain, and disappointment at times. The alternative is to grow apart, distant, and loveless. My current ex's parents are still together, but from what I can tell, are relative strangers to each other. They both still drink themselves to sleep every night, sometimes even forgetting the names of their children (i.e. they call my ex and call him by his brother's name. OOPS!). Anyway, the example set by my parents was that almost any hardship can be overcome with time, work, and love. I wish my ex thought the same.