Hello Everyone,

I received a call from my lawyer last week telling me that my STBXW has told her lawyer that the reason she left is that I was a control freak. I gave her no freedom including financially and it finally got to be more than she could stand.

I was told that we have to be able to refute this so my lawyer needs me to gather witnesses on her time she spent at the bars as well as the financial freedome she enjoyed while M. Also any info. I can get on her numerous A over the last five years of our M. I have already gotten our last years worth of cancelled checks before she left the house, which is almost an exact 2to1 ratio as far as number of checks she signed off on as opposed to me.

So far I have eight witnesses that are willing to testify to all these things, including three eyewitnesses to her being intimate and kissing OM. I have many others that I can talk with but am not sure of how they would respond to helping me.

Have any of you had to do anything like this before? I don't believe I will have any problem refuting what she is alleging, It REALLY surprises me that of all the angles she could try, this is the one she has chosen.

What is her lawyer going to tell her when she gets hit with all this evidence? Is it possible that they could drop this line completely and come back with a whole new argument? I can only think of one person that MAY be willing to get in front of a judge and lie for her about this.

I am just throwing out random thoughts as they come to me, can you tell? The last thing in the world I wanted to do is to rehash all this stuff again, but she's the one that started it. I don't understand why she wouldn't simply go in front of the judge, and say that she went through a bad time in her life but is better now. It seems so much easier than trying to push this lie. I figured if she would just show how much she's straightened herself up since she moved out that she would have a shot at the kind of custody and other things she wants in the D settlement.

I really needed to write this out, it was a good stress reliever. My goal is to get all my witnesses and other evidence together by the first part of next week so I can turn it over and be done with this for a little while. For some reason I can't concentrate on anything else until I get this done. God Bless

starman

Hello Starman,

I'm not an Attorney, but if your STBXW is going to fight you in Court with what sounds like a custody issue, you may indeed have to present evidence and testimony to the Courts.

When walking into a Court room... there are no guarantees on what the outcome may be.

Have your Attorney get together with your witnesses, and let them testify to all that may have happened.

The Judge of course will listen to both sides, and then render his decsion based on who he feels is the most credible person to side with.

Hopefully you have a good Attorney who can refute your STBXW's acusations based on the testony and any evidence that's put forth, and point the spot light on her.

That's what they get paid to do... that's why the good ones get paid the big bucks.

Hopefully you can reason with your STBXW, and save both of you a lot of heartache and heart break.

Stay Strong!

Wallace

Wallace,

Thanks for the reply. I have been getting very detailed stories from the witnesses I've been talking with. What I hope will happen is that my STBXW will see all this and back away.

She has no idea that I know some of the things I know. When she sees the details that I have it's going to scare her, at least initially.

It's funny that she's the one who would come out of this looking so bad, yet I'm the one hoping things don't have to go this far! God Bless

starman

Starman!
I am so sorry for taking so long to check up on you. I see things have gotten down to the wire. You know what...it is definitely her loss and your gain!

My H and I are still not talking. Rather it is one sided communication...by me. So it is time for me to make that trip to his Mom's and finally say, "So what is it going to be? Because I am tired of being put on hold."

I may need some advice from you on the whole D thing. When you say you can only take so much, well I think my limit is finally come.

I wish you well, Starman, a good woman for you is just around the corner.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />Take care,

Nomoregames

Starman,

What your STBXW is doing is very typical of WW's who find themselves on the losing end of the stick. She's hoping that because she is a woman, her allegations will give her more credibility in court than you who are a man. She is also scared, and rightly so, that if she loses custody she is going to get slapped with a hefty child support amount every month for many years to come. My XW tried the same but I had documented evidence [from the social services worker] of her neglect of our daughters which she had not counted on and was the key to me getting physical custody of our daughters. Sadly when the spouse who has destroyed the marriage tries to go for the jugular in divorce court, the other spouse has to reciprocate in kind.

TMCM

nomoregames,
Hey girl! I was hoping that things were going so well that you didn't need to be here anymore. Sorry it isn't so. I would like to think that this is close to being over, but I wonder how long this will all take if my STBXW actually let's this all go to trial. I will be a bit surprised if she continues this way after she sees the evidence that I'm willing to use against her. It's pretty overwhelming IMO.

Anyway, good to hear from you again. Give me a more detailed update on your own situation when you get the time. God Bless.

TMCM,

What my STBXW is trying to allege shows me how desperate she is. I believe she has to come up with a good reason why she left the house and the kids behind when she did so. If she tried to claim abuse, then people would wonder why she left the kids. By claiming that I was controlling her, she can say that it was all about her and what I was doing wasn't effecting the kids.

The problem for her is that this is so far from the truth that it's truly ridiculous. She was COMPLETELY OUT of control for the last several years of our M. She was so blatant that it has been very easy to gather up what is ten different witnesses to this point. Not bad for about eight hours of work the past week. I have a couple of leads to follow up on this weekend and hopefully can get all this to my lawyer on Monday.

It is too bad that it has to come to this. It's just going to be more bad feelings to get through as we try to co-parent in a cooperative way in the future. Thanks for your reply. God Bless

starman

I met with my lawyer yesterday and gave him all my info. He was happy with what I had gathered and thinks it's plenty to be able to refute what she is saying.

Now he wants to do a "discovery" period where he gets my STBXW under oath explaining her side of the story. That should be interesting.

I'm not sure why this step is necessary. I should have asked, but we went over so much it didn't come to me until later. Maybe he wants to see if she will hang herself under oath before he comes forward with what he has?

I was hoping that we could simply set a date for a hearing after this, but we at least have to do the discovery period first. Hopefully this is the last step before getting a hearing. It's been a long while since I've WANTED time to go by faster!

Starman,
I had hoped that things gotten better also, but I finally decided to approach him and see him unannounced. I leave in a couple of weeks to face him. I am expecting the worst, so if we break up for good at least I can say I tried the best I can do. Like you said earlier, it takes two and I can't marry myself very well.

It seems like you are on your way to marital freedom...HOOOH HOOOH!!!! At least you can get a brand new start with a new life and love. You STBXW will realize what an idiot she was when it is all over. Trust me, good men are really hard to find. And I found my H on a match site, and as you can see, that is not wholeheartedly reliable, either. So I know you will do fine after it is all over. Evil begets evil...so she may have something coming her way that she will regret.

Life is good for me though...Just a little nervous about approaching my H unannounced. I figure if he is seeing someone else, then I can at least file for divorce right away. And then I can be in the same state as yourself...nearly free to roam elsewhere. If we can work it out, then I know he and I will have a long road ahead of us. Again it takes two to make it work.

Well take care and God Bless.
Nomoregames...

PS Aren't you a doctor? I was thinking about going to medical school in a few years and may need to get some feedback from you. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

nomoregames,

I'm sorry that things haven't gotten better between you and your H. I think you are doing the right thing by going to see him in person. You deserve to get some answers one way or the other and after this long (is it five months now?)you have no idea when he might get around to talking with you in a meaningful way. That's no way to live.

I am glad to hear that life is good for you considering. You are doing the right things and will indeed be able to look back on this no matter what happens feeling good that you did the best you could. The most satisfying moment for me in this whole ordeal was when I reached that point. It gives those of us in this situation a feeling of peace that goes missing when these things happen.

My situation does seem to be gaining some momentum. Hopefully there won't be any long delays with anything from here on out. Barring something unexpected I would like it to be wrapped up by the end of summer/early fall. That would be nearly three years since my STBXW moved out. Just shows how long these things can last if you don't keep pushing the people involved (spouses,lawyers,even yourself)to get it done. It will be good to get some closure and move on. I'm 40 years old, so I figure I still have a COUPLE of good years left to give someone!!

Good luck on your meeting with your H. I am looking forward to hearing how it goes. Are you preparing yourself for as many scenarios as you can think of? You have already considered the possibility that he is seeing someone else. That's a good thing to try and get ready for, just in case. What if he simply says he doesn't know what he wants and asks for more time? I could definitely see that happening. Are you ready to give him more time if that's what he asks for? Just trying to make sure your not caught off guard by anything.

By the way, no, I am not a doctor. I do have a very unique job though. I own a go-kart track at Lake of the Ozarks in Missouri. It's a big tourist area (mostly for the locals from St. Louis and Kansas City). What's really cool is that it's seasonal, so if I budget correctly (easier said than done!)I can take off in the winter for about three months. That is such a great thing for me to be able to be off over the Christmas holidays and spend the extra time with my family. For some reason I never really appreciated what I am able to do for a living until all this happened in my personal life. Now I can't believe how much I had taken it for granted for so many years. I see how truly blessed I am and thank God every day. It just shows how you can find something good in everything that happens to you if you just look for it.

Well I gotta go. Good Luck to you. I will be waiting to hear how things are going so try not to wait SO long to drop a post next time! You are a good person and it sounds like you have a lot of ambition. That's a good combination that will serve you well no matter what happens with your M. God Bless.

starman

Thanks Starman, for all the encouraging words of wisdom. I want to say that you were the few who showed immediate compassion when I first logged into MB. So I guess I latched onto you the fastest. I really value your comments.

When I go to see my H, I pray that the Lord will keep my eyes, ears, and mind clear of emotions and really take a hard look at the situation. I don't plan on making a scene or have cause to call the cops. I plan to just listen...be still...and listen. I realize that whenever I am quiet is when he wants to speak the most. I just hope his Mother allows me in the house to even see him. But if he doesn't want to see me then the handwriting is definitely on that wall...I will take my attorney's number with me, and make an appointment upon my return.

I am 38 and I feel that I married my H at 37 in hopes of building a family right away, amongst other things. But you know, I think God didn't allow my H and I to have children right away, because HE really wanted me to see what is going on first. So in the beginning I couldn't understand why I didn't get pregnant right away, but now I am grateful I didn't, because of the added stress it would have caused. So in the end, God has the ultimate plan. And if this M doesn't work, then I know God has someone better waiting... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Sounds exciting to have a theme park/activity to own. Maybe during the downtime during the holidays, you take up another hobby...like writing or something... I will say, after going through all the things I have been through (oh by the way, my dog of 16 years past away last Saturday...and my Grandmother was in the hospital for 5 days...on top of everything else) I think a book is in order for me. Life has a way of making you go through some changes..

Well take care, and thanks Starman for keeping me in check.

Nomoregames

nomoregames,

I still look back in amazement at how fortunate I was to find this site so soon after my D-day. I have to believe that was God's hand leading me because it was just too lucky. I hate to think of the disaster I would have made of the situation had I not found MB. It makes ME feel good when I can post to someone and try to help, even in some small way.

You sound like a strong person with a real reliance on God. Because of that I am sure you will do fine when you go to see your H, regardless of how things turn out. Knowing that God has a good plan for all of us really helps, doesn't it? Since I have come to know this it has given me such an improved outlook on life. The fact that I don't know the whole plan is okay, just knowing that God wants good things for all of us is enough to trust.

I'm sorry to hear about the other trials you have been going through lately. I remember very much wanting the rest of the world to please just STOP until I got my M problems resolved. I can't adequately describe to you how much better I feel now than when all this started. It will get better for you too, probably quicker than you think!

These are the kinds of things that really do change a person. If you've got your mind right, it will change you in a positive way. It has for me. I KNOW I am a better person now than I was before all this. It has also given me a new determination to continue and improve myself as a person and not let myself ever again get beat down the way I was.

I hope things turn out the way you want them to. But there will be good things that you will be able to take away from this no matter what! God Bless.

starman

Hey Starman,

Your lawyer is going to charge you a lot of money. Be prepared for that. 90% of custody cases are settled out of court before a trial ever happens. The deposition that your lawyer wants to do is essentially a snapshop - he either questions her personally or gets her to respond to a bunch of questions on paper, and then if this goes to trial, he will use that snapshot to prove her a liar if her story changes.

It is worth the money if this goes to trial, but otherwise it is one way to soak a client.

Let me let you in on a little known fact. Or two. Whoever has the children when this goes to court wins. Period. You have such an edge because she abandoned them to you that you should be confident and relaxed.

Gather your proof - it will be handy, but know this: Adultery only counts in alimony. And property settlement. You could get a larger share because she was adulterous and you have the children. Otherwise, pursuing adultery as grounds for a divorce is a waste of your money. Only the lawyer will profit.

What I suggest is this. Gather the proof you have of your wife's neglect of the children. Get affadavits from witnesses and have them submitted by your lawyer as proof of your wife's neglect of the children. Further state that she abandoned the children to you - evidence that she did not appear frightened for them.

Now have the lawyer file these things - affadavits, your statement of how the children were abandoned, and counterfile for custody if she has filed for custody. Then you need to try and open communication with her again if you can. You want her to settle out of court - it will cost you less money. You want to make her a fair offer and then back that up with proof that it is a fair offer by showing her the state laws that outline what she is entitled to. You then want to decide if she is really a bad mother or if she has made some huge errors and need to be accepted as human and be allowed access to the children. You also want to be prepared to tell her that she is going to look really bad in front of the judge with all the evidence you have against her - this might scare her into settling with you.

Oh and by the way - adultery does not matter in child custody cases. By far the most important thing is status quo - the judge will not want to disrupt the children any further. Also important is which parent looks reasonable - as in will accommodate the other parent for being able to see the children. Don't take this to mean that you should give into any suggestion the judge makes. Be prepared to have what you want to end up with firmly in your mind and then stick to that.

Raising those kids yourself is a huge burden. You should really consider the fact that you will want some time to yourself eventually, and splitting custody or giving her generous visitation will give you a break as well as benefit the kids.

That advice is only if she is not some kind of unrehabilitated addict or abuser. Otherwise you will save yourself a bunch of dough and make things easier for both of you and the children by negotiating with your stbx.

If she is a bad element - take her all the way to court and nail her hide to the wall. Don't feel sorry for her you are fighting for your children.

Sunny

sunny,

Thank you VERY much for the info. I have been trying to come up with a comprehensive offer to make my STBXW to see if I can at least get the ball rolling.

My lawyer did tell me that my W lawyer told him several times during there conversation that she really thought this could be worked out. No details, but she was fairly adament about it.

The two big issues we have are custody and our business. We have not even discussed any numbers as far as the business goes. We haven't been able to get past custody. I didn't know how much negotiating with her I should be doing myself (I didn't want to get myself in trouble), but I would love to be able to sit down with her and see if we could work this out between us. If she would be willing to back of of her insistence on a 50/50 custody split I really think we could work this out. I believe it would be in the best interest of the kids to be with me during the vast majority of the school year. There is no doubt that I am the more stable of the two parents involved here and with all five of them in school it would be hard on them having to go back and forth between houses too much. That being said I am willing to negotiate on this somewhat.

Aside from the school issue I honestly believe that if I was to settle for a 50/50 custody arrangement I would be stuck paying her child support and would have the kids 75 to 80 percent of the time anyway. There is no way she could handle them any more than that I am certain. She never had the patience for it when I was there to help her, much less when she would have to do it completely on her own.

Is there anything I would need to be careful of if I wanted to try negotiating with her? We are not hostile towards each other and can have a reasonable conversation. I believe if I could let her know the evidence I have against her and that I am willing to use it that it could very well help things along. Thanks again.

starman

Starman,

I know that what I'm going to say may not be very MB and that I may catch some flak for it but it literally saved me and my daughters from getting butchered at the hands of the court: LET YOUR ATTORNEY GO FOR HER JUGULAR WITHOUT MERCY. I say this not out of some desire for revenge but because when it comes to divorce ,in situations like yours and mine, mercy towards the STBXWW is something that is very costly and will come back to haunt you bigtime.

TMCM

TMCM,

I hear you loud and clear. I don't know how MB that attitude is either, but when you get to this point I believe you have to start playing to win or you will get run over. It might be different if my STBXW was doing things differently. But if she is willing to tell such an outrageous lie, I have to look at it like she is trying to hurt my family and act accordingly.

I am going to think over our issues and get a complete offer together. Then I will talk it over with my attorney to see what he thinks. If everything is okay with it then I will present it to my W. I will let her know that this is the very best I can willingly offer. If she doesn't accept it than I will fight as hard as I can to make it so she doesn't even get that much. Not to punish her, but to try and retain as much control as possible. I can always make concessions after the fact that way.

I may bounce all this off Steve H. before I proceed also. I believe he does some mediation work for couples and may be able to help me.

starman

Starman,

I have followed your story but never posted to you before.

If it is OK I'd like to suggest something about the D process.

Allow the lawyer you are paying to go for it. No matter what you do you will be the bad guy so just step back and let your lawyer go for EVERYTHING. He may be acting on your behalf but the way to defend yourself from her attacks (because they will come) is to say....

"I don't know how this works and I hired somebody to handle it for me, it has nothing to do with you, I'm just going to let the professional I hired do his job"

I did it and when the attacks would come I'd listen and say "I'll ask my attorney about that" or "I hear you, Ill see about that"

Worked like a charm...the attacks slowed down and eventually she just gave in because the XW saw how detached I was from the legal end ie...just doing what the pro's suggested. Feigning ignorance of the legal end of the D and just following advice. So XW's anger shifted towards the system and Attorneys involved....me off the hook and got what I wanted.

Try it if you haven't already....who cares if she thinks you are stupid for listening to them?

Your Friend
RebornMan

Starman,

RebornMan gave you an excellent idea which merits your serious consideration. If your STBXWW can be made to beleive that you and the divorce process are two totally separate issues, it may lay the foundation for a good parental relationship between the two of you after the divorce. And like you've said, you can afford to be lenient and merciful AFTER the divorce is resolved in your favor.

TMCM

RebornMan and TMCM,

Thank you both for taking the time to help. You are right, I need to regain my patience and just let my attorney handle this. I allow myself to feel that my life is in limbo at times. Then I get impatient and try to think of ways that I can speed this process along.

It's silly, because when I REALLY think about it, my life right now is really how I would like things to stay. I know I have got myself in the strongest position I can be in and there's really nothing more I can do. It's hard not to get nervous about it sometimes, though. Closure will be a good thing but I've been at this for two and a half years now, a little longer isn't going to kill me. Thanks again!

starman

[color:"blue"] Nor is the appearance of going for the jugular. Note that I said appearance.

Custody is about the children. Unless you live in east gybip where the one judge in town knows everyone - you are going to be dealing with a judge that sees BS everyday from divorcing couples. Your lawyer is the best person to ask for advice about the judge's temperment and how that particular judge leans on a particular issue. You could also find this out for yourself by sitting in court one day and listening to the judge and how he/she makes decisions.

If your wife is open to negotiating - fine lay out your offer either in a way that is asking for more to settle for what you want, or ask for what you want and stick by it. Don't settle for anything less than what you have determined would be the most you could tolerate.

If you have evidence of your wife's neglect then tell her calmly - I have put my offer on the table and I am not willing to negotiate further. If you take this to court, with your history of neglecting the children, you will lose. Ask your lawyer. And make her understand that her lawyer cannot give her accurate advice if she doesn't tell the whole truth about her past behavior to the lawyer...

Each time I got my ex to sign something I had to push him. I'm not a pushy person and it was hard for me to do, but the judges in this county are not tolerant of custody battles. They kick your butt out of the court and out into the hall to negotiate rather than make a decision. They yell at the parents and then push a little to try and get whichever parent they can push to compromise. Which means you will have to stand tough if you are in front of the judge and not let yourself be pushed into an intolerable compromise.

My ex moved four hours away from me - wanted to take our children (I said no way) - then assumed that I would just have to meet him halfway EOW for visitation. Try being Mr. MOM 24/7 then think about 8 hours in the car EOW - draining! I said no way and the judge actually tried to push me to it because it was the last item not settled. I went online and researched long distance visitation plans and just how far was considered long distance. What I came up with was 180 miles or greater than 1 1/2 hours was in several states considered long distance. The visitation I offered my ex was BETTER than those plans. I gave him printouts of links and highlighted printouts of those plans showing him that he was getting a good deal. This pushed him to sign. I presented the info with the words "you should probably see this and give it to your lawyer, because this is what we will present to the judge next time at the trial". Judges will make decisions on past judgements rather than on the fly without backing.

Go to your county law library and start doing research on adultery neglect and custody!!!!!!!

I cannot emphasize any more to you how much it will be important to do your own research on your case and rely on your lawyer just to represent you - not to think for you.

Sunny [/color]

sunny,

Thanks again. I will take your advice and do my own homework on this. Sometimes it's easy to forget that an attorney has a lot going on and isn't just working on my case. It will serve me well to inform myself as much as possible. I think I can walk the line between fighting hard for what I think is right without coming across as being vengeful.

My attorney has sent my STBXW a form interrogatory to fill out. I asked him how this will go down from this point and he told me he is going to wait and see what she says on the interrogatory. Depending on her answers we will decide whether or not to send the information we have over to her attorney. Seems like a sound strategy at this point, what do you think?

starman