I'll be right back then... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Next...True? Truce? (splg)...Friends?
I didn't want all that posting to seem so personal as it came out. As I had stated previously, it's hard to convey my heart on this typed post thing.

I am glad to get a little fire in all your bellies just as it did for True and her H. It made you work together. That's passion.

Now to hopefully answer the question from 2...
Second time vs first time.
How do I make this not so long? For several years my H's Mother was dying with cancer (not living with it). She was a nice woman but "her" children were always first and could do no wrong. Her H always came second. I felt she made the family feel without her there was no family. So they always rallied around her instead of living their own lives. They believed that "kaos" was the only way to live. There are 7 children. My H is number 6 in the birth order. When she passed away, the whole family seemed to flail. Then my H's Father within the next 1 year died and the family became even worse. Even the nieces and the nephews were in argument.

I had never been witness to such behavior, as my sister and brothers are close and civil. We were sued by one of my H's nieces in between the deaths and she was awarded $100,000.00 for a scrap on her chin (insurance from a tip over on our motorcyle while her Uncle took her to lunch). Not one of his siblings told us what she was doing until our insurance company called us. No one is his family thought this was unethical, since it was suing our insurance co and not us. It hurt my H and our family so deeply. I feel it placed my H into some type of a depression (no excuse here, just possible reasons).

Through all of this my H was commuting from work to home over 200 miles every other day and taking care of his parents estate. I noticed he was lost, but I couldn't help him. One week before the first PA thing happened, I looked in his eyes and told him he was on a bad road. I could see it in his "eyes". The A happened, I found out and I was devastated. He saw the hurt and thought we were beyond repair. I think you all think by now, then why again? I have no idea. As you have all said, A's aren't our fault right? This A wasn't about me directly.

We went through 6 months of counseling and talked to our Pastor at church. My H told me he had just swept it under the rug (as he puts it) thinking everything was fixed. It was surreal to him.

This is what I was saying in my posts recently. Your guard will go down and you will forgive and life goes on. I don't take either of my H's A's to be directly my fault. It's beyond our control. It's up to the WS. So I ask you, what makes you think telling someone that you will leave if it happens again, when at the time, they aren't thinking of you, they are only thinking of themselves? And if this is not somewhat about us as BS's then why do we work so hard to heal our family's? Because it is about both of us 1+1=1 as Rocked stated. He is me and I am him. And as true stated...I love him!

After the second A, I told him that I didn't want to be married to the man he had become. There were no signs this time. I thought were happy. Funny, I told my girlfriend the week it must have happened that we were "too happy"...hope that doesn't scare you all too much.

We had just come home from a wonderful vacation. Our children were doing well, etc. Just like the guys on Oprah said. But, I think it's all bulls..t! I think it's more like what true's H said...just different and somewhat a little unhappy with their spouse. I think it does have something to do with the spouse indirectly, "the needs" thing. So what "need" wasn't I meeting? This goes back to my guard going down, it means "old patterns", "habits", the "old" you comes back and the "old" problems surface. I believe for counseling to work in a marriage or any behavior modification etc., you must remain in counseling the duration of the marriage/life. So since that can get pricey, I have set up my calendar for "marriage checks". A time to sit and meet and really "tell all" honestly what your needs are and what hasn't been met.

As for our relationship today. My H has shown me a drastic change. And I feel it. I gave the guy who was totally selfish and didn't make God and his family his priority, ABOVE ALL ELSE a book to read. POINT MAN. And he read it and we discussed it. It was a revelation to him. He was never taught the importance that being a good person making good decisions will help to give you a good life and the possibility to arrive at the gates of heaven. He was made so negative by his family. To date we are only in contact with two of his siblings. The ones which aren't on drugs or drink excessively.

I never stated I will leave if this should happen again, because it should have never been a thought. My H's A's werent' emotional, so I never feared he had to make a choice the OW vs me. The outcome may have been different if this were the case each time. I feel he understand's my hurt. It's the best I can/we can do right now.

Holiday,
My W really liked the flowers, chocolates, and cards she found waiting for her when she arrived home from work. Thanks for the encouragement!

Good morning folks! Sorry I seem to disappear all of a sudden. I've been reading the post, but unable to respond because it has been real busy around here.

Holiday, thank you for your story. I hope it wasn't too painful to relive it all. Actually, your H first A sounds very similar to my H's A. He was also under a lot of stress for a variety of different reasons, primarily dealing with some issues from his youth. I too saw him sink into a personality that wasn't quite like I knew him. For months, I knew something was wrong. I told you guys we did counseling during the A! I of course didn't know he was having one, but I knew something was very wrong with him. It saddened me to see him so unhappy, but again, it didn't have anything to do with me. I was trying to rescue him from his state.

Anyway, you said you guys were "too happy" when the second one happened. How did you find out?

True, I'm glad to see that you and your husband are being so open with each other. My H knew you guys existed when this first happened, but he does not know that I continue to talk to you guys. You've been my network of support and I would not feel comfortable with him reading this post, because I would NOT be able to share with you guys my inner most thoughts. He knows my feelings about everything, but I think he would be hurt to know that I still struggle with some things.

There is also this guy that I met on the internet who I talk to on the phone often. Great guy! My H knows nothing about him AT ALL. Seeing as this man lives on the other side of the country, I have never met him and may never meet him. He has been someone to talk to you, who has listened to my every whine and hurt about what happened. He has been through this experience before too. I know we are supposed to be careful with the people we meet on the internet, but I feel totally comfortable with him and love talking to him. It would be like talking to any of you guys on the phone.

Anyway, question of the day is have any of you done this too? Are there things that you are hiding from your spouse now because of the A that you may never have done before? I would have told my H all about this guy pre-A (though I'm not sure I would have ever met this guy had it not been for the A) but anyway, now I won't tell him. The main reason is my H's A was in part because he let himself become too close to this OW and some other women in the past too. I did not know that he spoke to them often on the phone and shared mutual attraction with some. His A OW I think was the available one when he was ready. It was like he always had one on the side waiting in the wings in case he decided to do it. Due to other stresses, he did it. But because of all this (my feelings about it anyway), he has cut off all contact with ANY OW that is not strictly business. He has some female friends he does talk to, but he now keeps all his conversations with them short and superficial. He does not (and will not if I know about it) lunch or spend any one on one time with any of them. It is a safeguard for him.

Since I have never had an issue with male friends (and I have one friend that I talk to often and have been for years!) I don't see anything wrong with this friendship with a man on the other end of the earth. I don't tell my H because I think he would expect me to also (because he had to) keep my friendships with OM to a minimuim. Since it has never been a struggle with me to set boundries with OM and have them STRICTLY as friends and NOT let it spill over into discussions about sex and mutual attractions, I don't think it is wrong for me to continue to talk to this OM. I think he is a dear!

Anyway, True, with your H reading the post, I'm sure I won't hear about any secrets you are keeping <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />, but Rocked and Holiday, get to it! Spill your guts!
2

Yeah, I haven't told my W about how I clip my toe nails over the living room carpet. Please don't let her know! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />Honestly, for me I don't see this forum as the place to share those things as much as it is a online group to give and receive encouragement. Suffice it to say that all of us probably hide things from time to time from our spouses for various reasons even though the goal should be total honesty.

2, as far as the guy you mentioned I would caution you to beware of subtle emotional attachments. Like you described your H's A situation, you could also find yourself keeping a "friend or 2" in the wings should you choose to flip out and have your own fling. I'd encourage you to set a limit on how often you talk and even go so far as setting a date on the calendar you will cease all contact with him. Optimally you want all your energy poured into your H and not some other man.

Holiday, I hope you are doing well. True, sounds like you share everything with your H anyway so posting here is no prob in your sitch. (Hello True's H!!)

Quick here as I have alot to do today and will have to write more later.
2, if I can't tell my H about something, then that is my red flag that I need to tell him. Yes, we probably have little secrets here and there, but not about other people...hopefully.

I like Rocked stated, be berry berry cautious! This is a red flag coming straight for your marriage. Sometimes just because it feels comfortable doesn't mean you can just do it.

Don't you wish your H had us to tell him prior to his "friendship" begining with his "friend"?.

Not to say, I don't have male friends as I have many. But, my H knows them and they are welcome to sit at our dinner table and eat with us (if you catch my drift).

2, IMO, you are not in a place right now to have this kind of friendship.

More later...
Have a great day,
holiday

I forgot to ask you all to pray for me. My oldest son turned 17 yesterday!! Order the wheelchair, mash up my food, call the Nursing Home. UGH! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I'm praying for ya Rocked, but does this mean I'm in the nursing home already? My youngest will be 16 in 3 weeks and the oldest is 22. Yeeha!

Yeah, I'd say you better pick out your plot pretty soon. HA! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

No, Rocked...just "throw" me to the wind!!!
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Oh, you're a naturalist?

Hey Guys!

Thanks for the advice on how to handle my internet friend. I promise to be very careful. He lives a million miles away! It is totally harmless!

So I am the only louse keeping things from my spouse? (that rhymes!) Oh well! I'm a louse then!

I have a question for you guys? Have any of you ever done a fast to pray for something specific? I came across a phamplet that I saved from many years ago about fasting for prayers. I have a HUGE prayer and was thinking I should pray and fast. I still need the OW to leave my H's job. Can any of you shed light on praying for things while fasting? I did a 3 day fruit and veggie fast about a year ago (march) when I first noticed problems in the marriage. The A was already 4 months a long and went on for 6 more after my fast. I guess you can say it didn't work?

I have been praying EVERY SINGLE SOLITARY DAY that the OW will leave the job or that my H will find a better one. We are approaching 6 months and she is still there. So I was thinking maybe I should take my prayer to another level and fast. What are your thoughts?

If I do decide to pray and fast will I have to come clean with my Hubby about my internet friend? Are my prayers being hindered because I am not being totally truthful with my H even though this is nothing more than a friendship with a guy a million miles away?

Let me know your thoughts.
2

Okay little 2 (I call you this because you are younger than me ).
Fasting. If I recall in ancient times was to "clear" the mind and body so one could think better and make better decisions. A sacrifice of sorts.

How about meditating? I'm not too sure about "starving" the body unless you are in it for detoxifacation (splg).

You might pray that if you "give up" your internet "friend" that God transfers the OW out of the state.

Do you think you have your "friend" because you have a subconcious threat from the OW? So you keep allegiance with the internet friend?

I need to tell you something. Many years ago, I too had a close male friend whom I worked with in an extremely stressful job (I was a 911 dispatcher and he was a police officer). He showed me comfort and attention and knew just the right words to help me when I was down and I'm sure vice versa. I became to understand that the attention I was giving to our "friendship" was draining my relationship for my husband and marriage and children. Then I said a big prayer to God...and God moved him hundreds of miles away. My H was aware of my friendship. I counseled many a police officer (there were 13 divorces in our dept within 2 1/2 years). I think I kept him in my life because of poor communication skills between my H and myself. And after babies...well, I wasn't too confident in myself. Nothing more came of this relationship except every now and then we email to see how each of us is doing. He has gone through a divorce since moving 12 years ago and is ready to divorce his second wife after only 1 1/2 years.

Anyway, 2, fasting or not. Really think about where your energy is going and where it really should go. The OW's "got nothin on you girl". And yes, if it comes down to the internet guy being more in your life than you wish for any OW to be in your H's then you need to tell you H you have a problem right now. Be open and honest, for that is what you want from him.

Hi Holiday!

Thank you for your post. I don't have a problem with my internet friend. Your situation at the police station is very different. You saw him daily...I've never even seen this guy! He's on the other side of the country! I'd agree with you if I saw him all the time, but we talk about 2 - 3 times a week. We were talking everyday there for awhile, but life has taken its course and so now we just chat a couple of times a week, about 20 minutes each time. I do not run to the phone to call him while my husband is home and call him at all hours of the day. If I don't reach him by noon, we don't talk that day. I'm not calling him and spending hours on the phone and purposefully leaving my house to make secret phone calls. It isn't like that. I think I have him as a friend because I like him! Plain and simple. I don't think my intentions are bad. I haven't told my H because I don't want him (nor do I think it is fair for him to) tell me I can't have male friends because HE can't have female friends because HE has a problem with boundries...not me.

Would I have a problem with my H talking to some female friend 2 - 3 times a week for half hour each time? Now I would! He used to do this before and I didn't care...really. But now I know that his conversations weren't always innocent and I would not stand for it now. Had his A never happened, I wouldn't have cared one bit. So in all fairness a total of 1 1/2 hours a week spent talking to some guy isn't exactly putting all my energy into this relationship, wouldn't you say?

Rocked I need your opinion? I want the man's perspective. What do you think this guy might be thinking? He's married too. I usually call him, but he'll call me sometimes. We haven't made arrangements to meet or anything. Good friendly conversation. Real sweetheart! I also need your take on fasting.

Talk to you guys later! True! Where ya at?
2

Ok...I guess I will throw my two cents in here. I seem to be a thorn in everybody's side lately...and this will not be different I am afraid.

First of all 2. you are NOT the only one hiding things from your spouse...nobody tells their spouse everything, so nobody can say that. It is true that I DO tell my H a lot...and I feel awful if I do not share, but I don't like to share everything all the time. There was a time after d-day that I too was "chatting" with somebody online that I did not tell my H about at first. You know...it ate me up...and it made me sad that he did not feel guilty about his lying, b/c like said..it drove me nuts!!!! I can't belive you feel good about it!

Anyway, he found out about it, and I was like you where I got mad that he would be checking up on me, or getting upset with me having a male friend, after what he did. I felt like he did not have the right to tell me anything! Especially about a man! As it turns out..it helped him see a slight amount of the pain he had caused me..and made him see how awful it is to be lied too. It brought us extremely close.

Also, it has always seemed logical to me that there is no difference between him having female friends and me having male. Unless the friends are friends of the marriage..do not let them in!!! Men and women should not be friends(without the marriage partner knowing every communication)...plain and simple.

And do not be fooled by the fact that he is far away..when those feelings come...and they WILL come if you keep this secretive...you guys will find a way to meet up..even if it is only under an innocent intention.

To be honest, you sound a lot like my H. You know, he did not see the OW everyday, even though they worked in the same building. In the beginning all they did was email and chat on the phone occassionally. Yes, they did have more opportunity than you and your friend have, but for the first while..he didn't see her in person. That came later...writing online, and chatting on the phone is a powerful thing...you become MUCH closer much faster! That is a proven fact, not just my own opinion. Also, my H thought he could handle their friendship right up until the kiss. He told me some of the same things you are saying.

Here is the thing...if you are not telling your H about this friendship...then it is already wrong...and I hate to tell you this...but it is already an emotional affair. I can tell just by the way you type about this man....you are now in an affair...and if he is married and not telling his wife about you...you have become an OW. Look at all these people on here whose spouse "only" had an emotional affair...heck ask DogMom...it hurts...and is just as destructive!

True

Hi True, you were never a thorn in any one's side, especially not mine.

2, I agree with True on the beginings of an A. Perhaps that is how our spouses all started out..."just someone to talk too". I did not see my "friend" everyday either. We only worked the same shift for 3 months. It was more of him calling and checking in on me during working hours while at work.

Looking back, even though my H knew of our friendship I think it did bother him, maybe even hurt him.

Strange thing, this friend called out of the blue yesterday and wanted to come up to Vegas (he lives in Arizona) for me to give him a hair cut (I'm an exhairdresser too...just a darn counselor my whole life!) and used to cut alot of the PO's hair on the dept. A hair cut??? I haven't seen him for over 2 years (we went to a concert with our spouses while my H and I were visiting in Phx with his sister). I felt a pit in my stomach while telling my H about him coming to Vegas. My H and I both knew it was to talk about his divorce plans with his second wife. He's also wrote to me in the past that he has an attraction to someone at work...leads me to think he just can't stay in a monogamus relationship. My H didn't look at me directly when I asked if he had a problem with it, and he answered "no, I don't have a problem" (see through counseling and all and the A's we have discussed honestly about all our friendships, crushes, since marriage, etc). I know what you guys mean about "why should my H have a problem with my male friends after what he did to me". But, haven't we all learned "do unto others as you would like them to do unto you??????" I know and knew my boundries too. I never acted on the attraction but, one never knows when we are down on ourselves etc., what we are capable of. Heck, if a big light came on and hit us in the head (like us talking here, hint hint) do you think it would have stopped our H's or W's??? I doubt it. I think this is what they call "fog".

I really didn't want my friend to make the trip and my prayer was answered because he emailed today saying he wasn't coming because he had to work. My H knew this guy was really getting into me back all those years ago and I think my H thinks he's still carrying a touch out there for me. Again, don't get me wrong it is definitely a nice feeling to have someone attracted to me who liked to hear me talk, ha. Now I feel like he's my little brother who is always having "girl" troubles.

Becareful 2...is it really worth all this?

2, I would tend to agree with Holiday and True. The way you talk about this guy comes across to outsiders as more than you are leading us to believe. If you want your H to walk the line, I think you should walk the line...and that means NC with this guy.

As far as fasting, there are tons of books and online articles to teach you more. Personally I don't think fasting is something you do in order to get your way. It's purpose is more for prayer, refocusing on God's ways, and purification of the body.

True,
Thanks for sharing about your online "chatting" friend. You didn't mention however whether you have cut that relationship off or not. Is it over? If so, do you find yourself thinking of him or about trying to re-contact him? Or was the closeness it brought to you and your H the "payoff" that enables you to move on without further "chatting?" Maybe your NC strategy would help 2.

Thanks for your post True. I will do a lot of thinking this weekend.

Here's one for you guys. Last night (right before bed) my h tells me he got a call from K. K is not the OW, but the OW who he was talking to just as much. Do you guys remember me telling you about this? About a month after I found out about his A, I discovered that a number I thought belong to HER, actually belonged to this girl K. I realized he talked to K about as much as the OW. He would call them back and forth, one right after the other, almost all the time. That is why I thought one number was the OW home and the other her cell. He talked to K at least twice a day and sometimes at odd hours of the day.

But anyway, K called him yesterday. The last time they talked (so he says) was in Jan. right after I called K to confront her. She and I had a pleasent conversation. She denied anything inappropriate, denied knowing my H was having an A and agreed to stay away because I saw their "relationship" as inappropriate. He said they talked for about 2 minutes after I talked to her (verified by phone records) and haven't spoken since.

So K called him yesterday. He legitimately could not talk at the time and told her he'd get back to her. He told me he was glad to hear from her, but would call her back only if I agreed. I don't know how I feel.

On the one hand, I feel like K was possibly a friendship gone too deep...but a friendship none the less. I asked my H last night looking back on it, did he think he was having an EA with her and he said no. He admitted that boundries were loose and that after a 7 year friendship with K (becoming more intense once he began his A with the OW), they had covered many inappropriate topics that he said he now knows better and would never do with her or any other woman again. He is maintains that they were and had always been just friends.

On the other hand I am not sure I agree with him. K was someone he talked to daily and I knew nothing about her (except that she existed and they talked every now and then so I thought). As I mentioned, he often called her right before or after he called the OW, sometimes as early as 6am and sometimes in the wee hours of the morning if he was out late for "work" (she like the OW is single too). I told him last night it was clearly inappropriate and I don't know if she should return to his life in any way even as a casual friend. Should I look at K as I look at the OW? Should I insist that no contact happen between them ever? Is that being too harsh?

My husband told me last night but was not in any way trying to argue that he should be able to contact her. He brought it up, and said he'd do what I was comfortable with. I asked him a few more in depth questions, but he never argued me about my point. Before we feel asleep we prayed and he asked in his prayer that K calling not cause problems, not be used by Satan to divide what has been a rather happy home for the last month.

I told my husband I wanted to think about it and that maybe we should get the advice of our counselor on Tuesday. He agreed to not call her back until then.

I am really not sure how I feel. I feel both ways like 1) sure he can talk to her occassionally and 2) NO WAY. She was an EA and he needs to stay away from her. What do you guys think?

Have a great day and a great weekend!
2

2, 2, 2,

I cannot believe that you are even asking that question. If your H is really happy to hear from this woman...and wants to resume contact...then he hasn't learned from his past mistakes...and if you let him...I am afraid you will find that you did not learn from yours. Do you really want to go through all this **it again????
Of course it was an EA..and she was the OW. I think you are letting your guard down. I am so amazed that you even had to ask about this...I just don't know what to say!

Ask yourself...is this woman a friend to your marriage? Has she been so in the past? I don't think it sounds like she has. Would you H be willing to let you sit on every conversation???? I doubt it! Did this woman follow her own words when she said that she understood your perspective and would not keep up their friendship? No...she called him!!!! She obviously does not care about what her friendship does to your marriage...there is BIG RED FLAG!!!!!!

Rocked, in response to you. Yes, I have cut off all contact with my male friend. I changed my email accounts, so that he cannot contact me, and no, I do not feel the need to contact him. I don't think our friendship ended as friendly as it began, so I am sure that he does not feel the need to contact me either. You are right, it did bring me closer to my H...though it was not the "payoff" that I think you are talking about. It has not helped me to move forward other than the fact that it gave my H some perspective. It did help me see how easy it is to go from friend to more, so in that I can say the things I have been saying to 2 with sincerity.

Hope everybody has a good day.

True <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />