I've read tons of stuff about relationships and marriage and even "What Men Want" - but I still am not sure about what they really want. And NO, this thread is not about sex, but it IS about relationships - and how they start.

It's about how to ask a guy out.

Yes, there is someone I may be interested in starting a closer relationship with... he's someone I've known casually through other friends for about 2 years or so. At first, I wasn't particularly interested in him, other than the fact that he's a really NICE guy, nor did I actually see him much, as we didn't socialize together much beyond some gaming. But a couple of weeks ago, I "caught a ride" with him to the movies where we were meeting other friends. We spent nearly 2 hours just the two of us in the car and we talked ... and I felt really comfortable and very 'connected'. It was sorta like being on a date, without the actual tension of being on a date (since it wasn't a date). When he dropped me off at the end of the night, he made a point of saying, "You know, we could do this again sometime, if you want." Which in woman talk, would mean "I'd like to see you again but that's up to you," but which might also just mean "Next time we all get together to go to the movies, I'll give you a ride if you want."

In an effort to try to spend a little more time with him without that whole "date" stress thing, I went to the movies again the other night with him and another friend from the group (both male). We went to dinner first, and so we all had some time to chat about lots of things. I'm very used to guys who will completely exclude a woman from conversation even when she is sitting with them and is part of their "party" - and that absolutely did NOT happen. As a matter of fact, he seemed to always want me in the conversation - it seemed to me that he deliberately included me.

So ... he's divorced, his ex slept with his best friend. He hasn't been in a relationship for the entire time I've known him.

Some questions immediately come to mind:

How does a woman gauge a man's interest these days?
And how can a woman indicate she is interested in a man without being too forward? Particularly in this case when I obviously wasn't this interested before...

I completely understand the instinct to protect onesself against rejection and/or heartache - that's why I'm here asking questions. And, based on some of our conversation, I gather that he's not looking to get hurt again. Can't blame him there.

But, based on our recent interactions, he's either an extremely nice guy, or he might be interested. I can't really tell which.

The most immediate question is this: I'd like to ask him to accompany me to a male friend's wedding, someone he's known for a while. I'm much closer to the guy getting married than he is, so he was not invited. One of his friends is in the wedding party, and he knows some of the other guests, so it isn't like I'd be inviting him to go somewhere where he knew no one.

How do I go about doing this? I know that there is the potential for rejection here, and I'm trying to minimize any discomfort for myself, but I know that the only way to find out is to ask... just need some help with what would be the best way to ask.

Help?

I dunno maybe just ask him "Hey would you like to go to so-and-so's wedding with me?"

Personally I don't think guys have any problem with women who go after what they want. Sheesh I'd love it cause I have the reverse problem, I can't figure out the female signals... Is she being nice to me because she's nice or she wants me?!?!? Do I come across as flirting or just being nice?!?!?

Its just so confusing.... If your interested just ask the guy, I'm sure he'll be thrilled!

Miker

terri,

I agree with Miker and be as direct as you can. Remember that we men are terrible mind readers, especially when it comes to reading women's minds.

While rejection is something that BOTH sexes fear it can be very educational and can help us save time from being wasted on someone who really is not very interested in us. Besides, it's his loss not yours if he says no to you.

TMCM

He seems pretty interested.

My only advice is that a wedding is maybe not the best place for a first real date. Particularly since this guy got a raw deal in his past marriage and going to weddings are probably not going to be real happy times for him for a while.

If I were you, I would call him and just say "I had a nice time with you when we went to the movies and I was wondering if you'd like to do something again, just the two of us."

Go to a movie or out for dinner or something.

If there is time to get a few dates in before this wedding, and if you still like each other, then I think it would be okay. Otherwise, escorting someone to a wedding seems a bit "serious" to me for a first date activity.

Exactly, be clear, be confident, if you think he's all that and a bag of chips, tell him.

You have all these feelings, so tell him. If you had a good time, say, I had a really great time. If you want to go to out for coffee, say I would like to have coffee with you someday.

Men don't get all the indirect ways many ladies approach things. We aren't clueless, we just respond more to a direct approach.

His statement wasn't very direct, when he said he had a good time. I'm not saying interrogate him, but you can respond in a way that will put the focus on what he means.

When he said, I'd like to do this again, tell him you really enjoyed his company and would like to see him for ________ sometime. If he takes you up on it, you have more information.

Or you could just say you loved how the conversation went, compliment him on something you really enjoyed and say yeah, I'd like to experience that again.

That may or may not open a door into what he enjoyed.

What is the danger of putting how you feel out there. Your feelings are not wrong, so if you enjoyed it, you find him attractive, etc. Just tell the man. I promise you he will not get scared unless it sounds like you are planning the wedding and picking out a dress.

Or just ask, do think we would have this much fun on an actual date?

Why fear communication, talk to the man!

T

Thank you for the responses!

OK, so the consensus is (to get up the courage) and just ask, but I hear and understand Slap's concern about the venue... I was wondering about that myself, whether or not a wedding is too serious of a venue for a real first date.

Unfortunately, there isn't much time before the wedding. It's the weekend after next. Any other input on that aspect?

btw... I don't fear communication, I dread rejection. It hurts. A lot. But I do realize that I cannot experience acceptance if I allow my fear of rejection to immobilize me. Now if I could only BREATHE... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

T

If you give in to your fear of rejection, then you have already experienced rejection, not from your guy friend from yourself.

TMCM

Hi Terri,


Are you sure he has a suit? If you're not, then probably you shouldn't invite him to a wedding. Try something casual first.

-AD

TMCM, I had no idea you were so eloquent... and you are, of course, absolutely right.

AD, well, I'm not SURE he has a suit, but he is a 40 something male (not sure exactly how old, but I know he is near my age)... don't most men in that age group have something nice to wear? Maybe that's a silly assumption - and if it is, please, let me know. That's another good point, though.

Thank you both for adding your thoughts. Getting this kind of feedback/advice/insight is wonderful for me!

T

OK, one more thing ... is email an acceptable form of communication for asking someone out? Just wondering, as I'm not sure what time he gets done with work most days, and I know he gets up VERY early so I don't want to disturb him too late, either.

My instincts tell me that a phone call would be best, but I'd like to know what the guys think.

T

terri,

Thank you for your kind words.

Following AD's comments, why don't you ask your guy friend if he has a nice suit stored away for special occasions? If he answers that he does have one, then you can then ask him if he would he like to put it on this coming [date of the wedding] and escort you to a wedding? Better yet, before asking him these questions, why don't you show off the dress that you're going to wear to the wedding? Remember that we men are very visual creatures and if we see a pretty woman wearing a nice dress, our eyes will become totally glued on her because her femininity will radiate everywhere. Something to think about, wouldn't you agree?

TMCM

I would suggest that you ask him in person. You might want to use e-mail just to find out when he's going to be at home so that you can then show up all dressed up and wow him into saying yes to your invitation to the wedding.

TMCM

I would suggest calling in person as well.

By my count, that's almost two weeks from now. You don't think you could find time to squeeze in a cup of coffee (we're talking like 20 minutes here!) sometime in the next two weeks? Pardon me for being so forward as to say so, but that sounds kinda weak to me!

Look, just ask the dude out already. Given what you've written here, the guy pretty much already asked you out... in his own mind that is.

"Maybe we can do this again sometime..."

is pretty much manspeak for

"Gee, you are really nice, I'd really like to ask you out on a real date but I'm not quite sure what you'd say... and i don't want to look stupid if you aren't on the same wavelength that I am... given that we have friends in common and all."

In his mind, he has planted the seed and is waiting fopr a sign from you. So ASK HIM OUT! Just my two cents worth, given my experience... take it fro what it's worth.

When my H was that age, he did have a suit - but it didn't really fit anymore since he bought it for our wedding when he was 30. How often do people who are not upper level managers or in sales actually wear a suit? - I can think of only about five or six times my husband, who worked in software development, had occasion to wear it during our twenty year marriage.

'scuse me....if your invitation to the wedding did not state that you were invited to bring a guest and you have not RSVP'd that there would be 2 in your party, you aren't exercising good manners in bringing a guest. Many caterers charge by the guest and it is often considered very rude to bring an extra guest or to be a no-show.

I really want to thank all you guys (and Nellie2) for your honest advice and candor.

Yes, it is 2 weeks... but he works a lot and I work two jobs and OT as often as I can, so I'm just not sure that there would be time for us to get together in between. Certainly not early enough for me to ask him in a timely fashion if I wait until after we have an opportunity to go out... If it was just that we should have a date in between that would work, but the point, I think, was that my friend's wedding shouldn't be the first real date.

What has really helped me here is having men say that they want a woman to be direct, and that it is not too forward of me to ask him out.

I'll let you know what transpires. The good the bad and the ugly ... but not too many details if it's good <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Thank you SO much!

T

I've already cleared this with my friend who is getting married. I do know the rules of etiquette, Milady Princess, and would never just go ahead and assume that it would be appropriate to add someone this late in the proceedings. I asked politely if they could add one more person to the head count (originally I had been invited to bring one and the female friend I had been going to invite was unavailable) and was told very warmly that it was fine, please do.

Good point, had I not been a step ahead of you there... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

T

terri,

Just call him and ask (wedding or not)! And best of luck!!!!

I agree with K, call and ask him... he'll be thrilled. Besides, if you guys have a bunchof friends in common who will be at the wedding, it is apt to be much less tense and therefore much more accpted as a first date destenation.

Just do it!

I cannot speak for any man but myself, but here's my take...

1. You're not being forward if he's already issued an invitation. "You know, we could do this again sometime, if you want" seems exactly like such an invitation, and your suggestion of attending the wedding together is a response to it.

2. Even if you were being forward, who cares? Directness is good; emotion-guessing games are bad.

3. I would feel different about being invited to accompany someone to the wedding of a friend versus the wedding of a stranger. In the former case I would feel like I was being included in a group event, while in the latter case I would feel more like an intruder. I would not be comfortable in that latter situation unless I was in more than a casual relationship with my "date."

My recommendation here is to pick up the phone (don't email), call him early evening (just leave him a simple message asking him to call you if he's not there), and ask him.

Well, once again I want to thank you all for the wonderful advice...

I thought about this a lot and decided that maybe I was putting too much stress on myself about asking him to this wedding. I realized that he would know 3, perhaps 4 people there. Two of those people would be at the head table and not really be around all that much, one of them would be me. So I could see that it might not be such a great idea.

So, I decided it would be a better idea to just ask him if he wanted to go out an play pool or something one night this week. What, you ask, if he doesn't play pool? Well, that's why I was including "or something" - open-ended. To be honest, I didn't know what "or something" might be.

I called him and after saying hello and letting him know who it was, I confidently (I am assured by my girl friend who sat in my living foom when I called - because she wanted to make sure that I DID call) asked him the above question. The answer was "welllll, I don't play pool ..." - so with little hope of salvaging the day, I mentioned movies, but there isn't anything coming out this week that either of us wanted to see. Next week, of course, Star Wars is coming out, and he made mention of that, but the group of people that we game with already have plans made to go on Friday next week, so I don't know why he brought it up. I asked what else he likes to do, and he said he really doesn't do much besides the gaming, which is how I met him to start with, and which he does at home. (To be fair, he does have a very demanding and physical job and works a lot of hours - he and his brothers have a family dairy farm that just the three of them work - 6 days a week he's up by 4 am and works most of the day, generally finishing up around 5 or 6 pm, often later. I think I might not want to do much else besides relax at home, either.)

I figured the conversation was pretty much over after that, I know if I had just been asked out by a guy and didn't want to encourage him, I would say "thanks for thinking of me - gotta go" but he kept talking to me, and we chatted another 20 minutes or so. That was difficult and confusing for me, but because I don't want to stop being friends with him and don't want to screw up the "group dynamic," I stayed on the phone. Besides I LIKE talking with him.

So... I'd say that was a no. And I'd say it's an "I'm not interested in you that way." And if I'm wrong, then he knows my phone number and he can make the next move.

HOWEVER, where was this "direct approach" stuff you guys claim as your preferred means of communication? "no" is so much simpler... Like the difference between slowly removing a band-aid from your forearm and feeling the hairs ripped out one by one over several seconds as opposed to just yanking the damned thing off for one split second of eye-watering pain...

Men are no more direct at communication than women are, based on this experience... ya'll LIED. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

T

Well, good for you for at least giving it a shot... and I'm sorry for the reaction you got. Trust me though, you are better off having given it a try and being shot down than you'd have been having done nothing at all. Fore, when one does nothing and lets an opportunity slip away... you tend to kick yourself over it for a LOT longer (and one tends to think ones self a bit of a chicken!).

And for what it's worth... I happen to have a very good female friend who would whole heartedly disagree with you about how direct men (well at least this man) tends to be about stuff... relationship boundary definition stuff in particular!

On top of that sweetheart, you are painting with an awefully broad brush! I married a total nut case... but do I claim all women are nuts.... oh wait a second.... I guess I kinda.... ummmm, well... nevermind... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

LOL, well, it seems that most of the men here painted their own gender with that very wide brush before I did!

I'm not sure I'm quite ready to be "glad I asked" yet, but I guess it beats not being able to breathe just thinking about asking him. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I know that I obviously don't read "signals" well from the opposite gender - not sure how to improve that or if it can even be improved.

Thanks for stopping in with the kind words.

T

terri,

You know that there are no guarantees in life, but if you had not asked him out then you would have been left wondering what if? Now you have more knowledge about him and its up to you decide whether or not you want to continue trying to date him.

TMCM

Terri,

Sorry to hear it didn't work out the way you hoped. His loss I say!

Miker

Terri, there are times when the direct approach cannot work. For example, when you don't know where you want to go.

I think it is safe to say that when this man said "we could do this again sometime" he wasn't saying "I really really want to spend some more one-on-one time with you and explore the possibility of a relationship, and I hope very much that you will take this subtle hint and make some sort of response which might indicate that you might share my interest so that I can jump at the chance of doing anything at all with you no matter what that might be."

In fact, what I think he meant was "I think I would enjoy doing something with you again some time, if you are also open to the possibility and if we can find something we would both like to do which fits into both of our calendars. I'm not going to stretch my imagination too much to come up with something, but if something happens to come up, I might very well be interested."

Put another way, I don't think from what you've said that you can conclude he's not interested in you in "that way." No, it doesn't appear that he's madly in love with you - he's not interested enough to change his plans or lifestyle to pursue you - but it's impossible for me to guess anything more one way or the other.

As you point out, he can always make the next move. At least he knows now that you have some degree of interest, and if he's got any sense he knows that the ball is in his court.

You could pursue him if you really want to, but you risk appearing desperate, and I hope that you have given serious thought to whether he is really the sort of man you ought to pursue. Knowing what you know of his lifestyle, is it something to which you would enthusiastically adapt?

But terri, with all of that said, here's what particularly struck me about your post:

I don't understand this. If you were asked out by a guy you didn't like, then I can see why you would say "gotta go." But why would you do this if you were asked out by a friend? Does a tentative expression of possible romantic interest suddenly void the friendship?

I readily admit that my relationship experience is extremely limited, but neither of the women in whom I ever expressed interest (and being the direct sort of person that I am, I didn't just hint at it) let it get in the way of their friendship with me.

hi terri...
i get asked out all the time and i take it as a compliment...and 99.9% of the time i say no but i go out of my way to be polite and say why and that this should not affect whatever relationship we share now....direct and honest...we men are not the brightest critters sometimes and we certainly can use help in reading you ladies so help him out and tell him...

GnomeDePlume wrote:

I'll answer the second question first: We learn by our experiences, that's why. In the past when I've expressed interest, that's exactly what it's done for me - void the friendship. The last couple of times I've been brave enough to express interest in members of the opposite sex it's been not just awkward but very emotionally painful. In one case, I was told "don't ever speak to me again" after being unjustly accused of STALKING the guy (he told people he'd had to put up with "drive-bys" - I did drive past his house - he lived on the main drag - on my way to the GROCERY store - ). And a close friendship came very close to being destroyed by the fact that I expressed romantic interest. That was probably most painful, because it is a person I work with on an every day basis (resolved very well, now, however - and I was just asked to sing at his wedding).

And to address the first question: in the past, I've had difficulty after saying no to someone that they figured I must not really mean I'm not interested because I continued being nice to them. One guy I have been friends with for a very long time actually told my then-boyfriend that he should be careful, because if he (my boyfriend) screwed up, my friend would be scooping me up. And he's always been there trying until recent years. Because finally he asked me why I wouldn't go out with him, and I told him I wasn't attracted to him that way, but I loved him like a brother. And he finally accepted that and things have settled into a comfortable friendship with him (of course, he's on the opposite side of the country from me now, too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />).

So, to me, based on my experiences, it was confusing that this guy continued the conversation... I figured it was obvious that the point of the call was that I was asking him out (of course, there I go "[censored]-u-ming") and that he wouldn't be interested in talking to me after that.

It's not impossible that we might just need to find out more about each other's interests. Again, I made an "assumption," because around here it is exceedingly rare to find a guy that does not play pool... every guy I've known up to him has played. He did mention the movies, so I am planning on asking him if I can ride with him when we all go to see Star Wars. I know that THAT is ok <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

As for his lifestyle ... well, it doesn't sound so bad to me. I would know where he was most of the time at least! I was married to a guy who who worked until 10 pm five out of the six days he worked (including Saturdays and Sundays) and who made a point of making plans with his golf buddies on the one day he did have off, regardless of what I wanted... and who, during the last several years that we were together, didn't come home after work until perhaps 1 or 2 am, drunk...

T

TMCM,
No guarantees in life ... that's an understatement when taken in context with the title of this forum! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> As for whether I will continue to try - I'm not even going to decide that just now. As GnomeDePlume pointed out, pursuing him at this point might look desperate, and I had thought of this during the phone call. I was hesitant to make any more suggestions after movies because A) I was feeling a little stupid myself and B) I didn't want to sound like I was BEGGING him to go out with me. So I'm going to just go along like normal - go to movies with the group when the opportunities come up, participate in gaming with everyone... and be myself. And we'll see what happens, if anything.

T

Any time you ask a guy his hobbies and he says "gaming", run away as fast as you can.

Unless you don't mind calling him "dungeon master" in bed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Slap, to be quite honest, I'd love to (heck, after the dry spell I've had, I'd call him anything he wanted in bed <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />). Online gaming is how I met to start with! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Gee, there's an idea... I've actually never played D&D and ALWAYS wanted to (I do know that he plays). Maybe I just need to ask him if he'd teach me how to play. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

T

That's interesting... I had another post that I submitted before this one... but it seems to have DISAPPEARED!

To recreate it:

Miker, thanks for the sympathy...

KA1, I'm not sure what it is I should be helping him out and telling him - would you please clarify that for me?

Thanks, guys... This has been quite a learning experience for me. I'll probably get it wrong next time, too, though, so I don't know how much I've really absorbed from the lesson. We'll see how things go.

T

Terri,

Perhaps I can help confuse you further. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I was a batchelor until my 30's and dated alot. I think that most men are NOT direct in regards to relationships, unless they become very serious. Even then "direct" is an odd word because us guys are notorious for NOT being able to voice our feelings.

I think the fellow you asked talked to you because he could and was comfortable with you. I would also guess that he is somewhat reticent to date given what you said about his marriage. He is also a "gamer" and frankly if you read these boards very long you will see a lot of women her complaining because all their H does is play games/a game on the computer. You will also find a fair number of women that end up in affairs via men they meet playing games.

I am not saying exclude men that have a hobby of playing games on line, but be careful.

My other comment is that if you are going to have a relationship now, have one with someone who is your friend first and foremost. Perhaps this guy and you will develop a friendship, I hope so. But, let it develop this way.

Finally, men are still a little freaked when women are ask them out. Especially, men 40 and up, and very likely men who have been burned in a marriage. I agree you should have asked him, because you wanted to. I am not surprised at his response. The good news is that he knows you find him interesting. So if you play it cool and remain in a "friendly" mode with him this can work in your favor.

I wish you all of the best and I suspect you will find a good man to date in the near future. You are still coming out from under all of the mess of your marriage. As you do and as your confidence increases, you will find that men are and will be attracted to you. Be choosy, that is my advice. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

God Bless,

JL

JL,

Thank you for your input... as you predicted, it confuses me further! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I do want to clarify something - I met this guy about 3 years ago or more and I first met him in person - a friend of a friend of a friend. So stating that I "met" him via online gaming is actually not quite true. However, I've gotten to know him better because we all play every week now. The group I play with are mostly reasonably local people (a core group that lives within 10-15 miles of each other, with a few that are a little further out but have ties to the local area) and we play closed games. Computer and console gaming would be a better way to describe both his and my gaming hobbies and one of the things we have in common is the reluctance to participate in open online gaming - the experience is not always fun. Computer gaming has ALWAYS been a HUGE passion (if not something of an obsession) of mine, so I find it uncommon and refreshing to find someone with the same interests, particularly as I am a 40-something female.

I hope that clears up some of the concern about hobbies. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks again!

T

Men are notorious for not even understanding their feelings, let alone voicing them!

You can't be direct about communicating something until you are aware of it yourself.

Just to be clear, I never said men were direct, they just liked for women to be direct about what they want.

I think the post above gives some insight regarding why.

I think there are two extremes in men that start from the same point. Men who know what they want and go for it. Men who know what they want and have not the courage to go for it.

I'm sure there is a third group that just doesn't know what they want.

I would like to think I'm in the I know what I want and go for it group <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

T

I'll throw in my 2 nickels here. IMHO if he was truly interested in a "date", he would've made that clear. I know that if I was interested I might've said, "I don't play pool but maybe you could teach me" or "I really would like to do something together - how about going out for a drink after work?".

As a man I know I like the no head games approach to dating and relationships. But you also do not want to hurt someone's feelings, so you might do what this guy did.

He might not have immediately said "...no thanks, gotta go" because he 1) is a nice guy and 2) doesn't want to hurt your feelings and 3) wants to remain friends.

I applaud you for having the courage to ask and be direct. And you never know, maybe he was taken aback and may very well ask YOU out at some point.

Regards,
ITB

GnomeDePlume wrote:


And Confused_Ex_Husb followed with:


OK, so ... men want women to be direct, because they don't want to try to read their minds... but women still need to be able to read the minds of men - who sometimes can't read their own minds. Does that accurately sum up what I'm hearing/reading here? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Thanks, guys!

That's not what I heard, I heard that someone had two nickels, I'm gonna see if he'll loan me one..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Yup Terri... I think you've about nailed it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

A couple of suggestions:

Get the book "How to be your own dating service". Lots of good advice in it.

Also, I read several years ago that we guys miss about 80% of the flirts that women throw our way!!! So, being direct at times would help.

If you don't want to ask him for a date, you might ask him to help you with something. If he knows about cars or computers you might as his help determining what service your car needs, or how to setup your wireles home computer network.

Here are a few more thoughts on the subject of women asking men out. Men say they like this idea, but I believe when they say that they are thinking of a woman they find very attractive but are to shy to ask out, walking over to them, and popping the question. They are not condering what happens when a woman they don't find attractive may ask them out. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> Then they have to find a way to say no.

Also, if you are going to ask somebody out, have a plan B. Guys know this. Or they should know it!! If you are not sure what he likes to to, pick something simple like having dessert one evening after work.

If all he likes to do is play on-line games, then you have to consider if he is really a guy for you. That sounds like a rather dull fellow to me.

Finally, it helps to have more than one dating interest at a time. You will not believe how much easier it is to ask a person out, if you know there are others you can go out with. Alternatives, take the sting out of rejection. Keep in mind that MOST people are not good matches for us romantically, thus most of the time you will be rejected.

Good points, JustinExplorer. Guys may understand the whole have an alternate plan thing, but with my vast (NOT) experience in the dating arena, I admit I missed that one. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Back though to the "ask him to help with something" idea... I'm pretty self-sufficient - I was before I got married and have gradually gotten my self-sufficiency back since my divorce.

I probably know considerably more about computers than he does, as that is my job... and cars, well, I already told him during one of our conversations that I tend to do my own minor car maintenance stuff (i.e., tune-ups, filter changes, stuff like that), so if I asked him for help with something like that, he'd wonder why.

If I started to ask him for "help" with anything, I'd feel weird - guilty? - like the only reason I was asking was to get close to him - deceitful... And I swear my nose grows when I am not honest. I don't "fake" anything well, and find it distasteful to behave in a helpless fashion when I'm not.

BTW, he seemed quite impressed that I would work on my own car. He said something like "that's really great - most women wouldn't do that kind of stuff." I'm aware that some men are threatened or put off by self sufficient women, but I also keep hearing that men like a woman who can survive on her own. I'd like to think he's one of the latter, but I do also know a lot of men who like to be needed - who like to rescue.

It can all get pretty confusing if you ask me.

As for the online games thing ... I know that there are other things he does besides online games. Movies (there just wasn't a movie either of us would have wanted to go see this week) and dining out are two things I know he likes to do. He likes quad riding - not something I can do with him as I don't have a quad, and most guys I know who do ride, don't want a passenger - it's kind of a "freedom" thing. He likes going to car shows and swap meets - which I'd certainly love to do, but those seem to me to be "guy" things, i.e., stuff that guys like to do with other guys and don't want a woman tagging along. Maybe I'm wrong about that, and if so, please enlighten me!

I'm not very good at "casual dating" - never was, never did much of it, really. Mostly I got to know guys by "hanging out" with them in groups of mutual friends, and in a couple of cases, was able to establish exclusive relationships. I don't like to waste the time of someone in whom I am not interested, and I don't meet a lot of people close to my age bracket, so it's not like there are a lot of guys to "choose" from. I know that most of the dating books advocate just going out for the sake of going out, but I find that very difficult. I've had some scary things happen when out with guys in my life, and I'm not anxious to repeat them any time real soon. Besides there are no men beating a path to my door at the present time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

More on a new thread...

T

Well Terri, I'm not a man but I would not make the first date a wedding. They can last a long time & there is a certain amount of pressure & maybe not the best venue for being yourself & getting to know someone.

I think it's great that all the guys are advising you to... just ask! They've certainly had their share of risk asking people out, now it's our turn.

I also think it's great to have this new forum. After 21 years of marriage getting back into dating does feel somewhat foreign, though I really look forward to meeting new people.

I say is fine to express interest, but not pursue hard like a man would, that tends to attract the wrong kind of man. I also would not worry about whether someone has a suit or not, that suggests you are his mother. If he wants to go with you, he will find appropriate clothes, or turn you down, either way that tells you something about him.