I say she has already had 3 1/2 years to think about it.

If you (2long) were to look back at all your posts, I think you would see that you already explained it to her lots of times, and she has made the same choice every time.

If you are going to do something, I don't think waiting will help.

SS

This is the only thing I can comment on with my experience. I know this to be true. I was engaged to a man who was already married. I had no clue.

He is that good at deception, that likeable that I still liked him afterward. I did break up with him when I found out but then I went back with him after he was divorced.

Like I said, he is a master deceiver. Charming, caring, convincing.

4 years later and I still can't quite figure out what is up.

And I have never, would never, cannot conceive of deceit. I can't even reconcile with myself to install a recording device.

And if I talk to him for more than 5 minutes I will believe him again.

I so know what you are talking about.

weaver:

"And I have never, would never, cannot conceive of deceit. I can't even reconcile with myself to install a recording device."

All I was able 2 reconcile with myself 2 do was check her email when she'd left it accessible. the last 3 times I did that... ...THREE... was 1) last weekend, 2) June 2003, and 3) sometime around June or July 2002. Clearly, I'm 2trusting. I want people 2 choose 2 be honest and truthful with me because they believe it's not only the right thing 2 do, but they know that they compromise their own integrity by doing anything else. My W has deceived me deliberately for so long that it is as hard for me 2 imagine she might suddenly choose 2 stop as it is for me 2 believe that your BF will truly be "the one" who will commit 2 you exclusively for the rest of his life.

That man isn't a H, unless that stands for "Hobbyist".

"And if I talk to him for more than 5 minutes I will believe him again."

I do that 2. But now I need proof and validation. And after all this time of being deceitful and knowing how destructive that is for me, she not only can't offer that, she's horrified that I've looked at her secret messages 3 times since 2002!. Everybody's right, here. She's not going 2 stop. Still, it is interesting seeing just how she's going 2 respond 2 my firm stance on the contact issue. I'm giving her "some time" because I can, and because there's a slight chance she might give a flying dogshit and do something positive for once.

My patience is no longer infinite, though.

-ol' 2long

I believe that you have reached the end of the road.

Can't go around it, gotta go through it.

Hope she gets it.

I don't think your patience in the matter is an issue. The issue is your lack of any assemblence of a plan.

No plan means no action. No action means status quo. Status quo mean happy WW and unhappy 2long.

Perhaps you are too focused on WW and the A. Forget plan A,B,D. How about Plan U as in YOU? How about self improvement plan? For YOU, not for her.

Sort of a Plan B in that you could completely disregard your WW's actions and focus completely on YOU. What do YOU need to do to make YOU happy and feel better about yourself? I think you are relying on WW for your happiness rather than on yourself. Stop allowing her to control your happiness.

Just a drive-by before I head out.

This plan U stuff harks back to loving detachment. 2long has been practicing that maybe twice as long as I have. And doing it well, I think.

No, this finally looks to be crunch time. Mine is coming. I hope.

OK. So I got done posting some of my favorite quotes to Pep on another thread. And I have on for 2long and Aphelion.


Problem is, the two of you have been takin' that bullet for your WS's.

NCWalker

Not 'ny more.

Can I claim Rule of Protection?

Insanity, maybe?

2long - <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Aphelion - <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

If you two were running a race to happiness, 2long will win. And from what I hear, he is a big, old, wookie. Not built for speed. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Aphelion hasn't stopped reading the rule book. And it is being used against him.

Look, Harley says on average Plan A is a 6 month endeavor. So let's assume a normal probability distribution. The two of you are WAAAAAAAY out on the right tail of that sucker. Way out in the zone of lots of leading zeros.

In fact, the two of you on the same thread raises the hairs on the back of my neck in some kind of cosmic/karmic/too-much-strain-on-the-spacetime-continuum kind of a way.

Where's that two-headed goat? Thought I heard a bleat in stereo.

I'm not advocating ending a marriage. But what you are doing ain't working. Pull the WS off the teat of the milk of human kindness which flows by the gallons through thy veins and wean that sucker.

You tried Plan A. Plan B is not leaving, it is a different tactic to get her back. May work. May not. But plan A isn't.

My best,

NCWalker

2Long,

In your defense, I'd say to the ranters and indignant and impatienoholics that it's your life - and you'll do (whatever it is you're gonna do) when you're good and ready.

Meanwhile, you're not so uncomfy as others might be in the same situation. Individual differences.

Thinking about it, I'm in a marriage with an LTA also - if you count the fact that W was talking to OM on the phone while we were engaged - which is pushing 7 years ago. There were disconnects between them, periods of NC which extended as long as a year, but OM was always there - in the back of her mind or the front of her mind or on the other end of the phone, or in her car or in her apartment (when we were separated) - or in her *&*()@! body part.

Yeah, OM was always there.

But when she's "sweet" to me for a few minutes - or even better for a few days - I've been almost completely maleable to her will.

But not any more.

I think you're in a similar place now.

Did I ever tell you that while OM was still overseas, W once suggested that I "sponsor" him to come here - and pay for his education!? Amazing! I was never that maliable. (sp?)

-AD

What's funny is hearing how I must sound right now 2 people reading my posts.

I have a plan. I've implemented the first part of that plan:

*NC or I want a DV.

She hasn't complied yet. Probably won't. Probably can't. So there's a branch in the plan here. And next:

*I set up an apointment with a family attorney or mediator and start the ball rolling for a legal separation. I've got a lot 2 learn about divorce law in California (I know nothing, 'cept we're a no-fault state). So exactly what I do won't be instantaneously obvious 2 me at least. When I do that? Sometime between right now and June 10th, when she's going 2 her OOSP. If we don't have a NC agreement, with a good verification plan 2 back it up, before then, I file. Period. In all probability I'll have an answer no later than mid next week, because if I don't, I will suggest she not come out 2 my weekend thing over Mem-day weekend (what would be the point?). It's a public event, though, so I cant tell her not 2 come up. But the 10th isn't all that farther downrange, and I won't go wiht her if NC isn't firmly established. She'll be gone for 6 weeks (I'm supposed 2 go out over the 4th of July, 2, but won't, without same agreement). While she's there, if we have no agreement, she will have a plan B letter with her, and I won't answer the phone, emails, or call her myself unless there's a family emergency.

On the other branch, if she agrees 2 NC, she's going 2 have 2 also be willing 2 do whatever it takes 2 repair our broken marriage. At the moment, I don't see her doing that, and so I don't sound optimistic when I talk about it. But if she is willing, we're going 2 put some serious effort in2 formulating a strong verification plan so I can be assured that contact isn't still going on or won't resume. Frankly, I can't imagine that either, she's been so good at deception (self and me) for so damned long that it seems like an insurmountable hurdle from my view. She'd have 2 agree with the dictionary definition of "lies by omission" and "secrecy" 2 make even the first step. Stranger things have happened before (but not 2 me), so I suppose it isn't impossible.

And finally, if the NC agreement is in place and she is willing 2 do whatever it takes 2 save our M, we're going 2 need a seriously-awesome MC or coach.

Do I still sound like a wuss?

...well, I guess I just don't care,
-ol' 2long

No, dear 2long -

You're not a wuss....I just want to see you happy, with or without WW.

I would like to see you as happy as SC!!

CSue:

I know. But you and SC know me more than most people here. You know my W more than most people here (not that any of us really know here all that well).

I want 2 be happy, 2. And I know that objective must come first because right now, maybe forever, my W isn't able 2 be selfless enough 2 enable that with her.

-ol' 2long

WOW !!
I'm impressed.

Tired too, but impressed.

Did you see any cave bears?

SS

Good for you 2long.

And look, I wouldn't think your a wuss either way you chose. Making a hard choice takes courage. The wuss is the guy who doesn't choose.

NCW

SS:

No, but they did talk about cave bear bones in a 2ple of the caves where rock art has been found.

Wow, people have been painting pictures of stuff for tens of thousands of years! Some of the really old stuff is very detailed, too. But then, "modern" humans have been around (in Africa, at least) for a 2ple hundred thousand years.

We're supposed 2 go see a colleage of mine talk at my W's college 2night, but I wonder if she'll still want 2 go (she said she did last night, though).

I had a good, quiet evening. My kids and SIL were all in Hollywood watching the new Star Wars movie (I'll wait 'til there's no line!), so it was just me and my son's friend that lives with us. I nuked some foodies, we ate that, and cap2red some awesome videos of Jupiter through my scope 2 process.

Went 2 bed around noon (the one where it's dark out), and got up at 6. Didn't see any new posts 2 my thread (other than you and nc's kind posts last night), so I read a magazine and sucked down some coffee. Now, it's off 2 work!

-ol' 2long

2long, I didn't want you to have to seek me out or miss my response. I justed wanted to thank you for your advice and uplifting message and also for reposting the words of Pepperband. Paraphrasing "enabling my W to kill my love for her is not a loving gesture". This hit home as I reread it.

I would also like to sum up my problem as I see it regarding IC. I went to IC armed with all the Harley principals. The IC was telling me you can't make someone love you and I was sure I could based on EN's principal. IC was saying if you stay, then know why you're staying. And also that to protect myself I need to lovingly detach. He was giving me the right answers but I didn't want to accept them. Think about the simplicity of that. I cannot change her or her feelings for me. She does respect me as a father and husband but doesn't treat me accordingly.

Didn't mean to threadjack but wanted to let you know I appre ciated your comments.

WOE

I have a plan. I've implemented the first part of that plan

A man with a plan - that's gotta feel good. At least you'll get some movement instead of being stuck in no-man's land. Limbo sucketh!

I returned to this forum a few days ago, and was a little surprised to see you still here and still in relatively the same spot. But your new determination to get some resolution in your sitch is great to see and is being wildly cheered by everyone here who cares about you.

Now comes the hard part - the follow-through. As a fellow (and former?) CA "Platinum Circle" member, that was the most difficult thing for me - doing something that had to be done, even if the outcome may not be all that pleasant. Having survived the aftermath of an infidelity, I now figure I've been through the worst emotional torture possible, so anything else that seems like it might be bad can't possibly be as horrific as what I've already endured. So now, when faced with those uncomfortable decisions, my new mantra is: "Screw it - just do it" (with apologies to Nike).

2Long, you're at a crossroads, and you know it. By following through with your plan, you will be sent down one path or the other. Whichever path it happens to be, it's meant to be. You have done more introspection in the past 3 years or so than most people attempt in a lifetime, so you're prepared for either outcome. Embrace that fact and charge forward like a man on a mission - because that's what you are. A man on a mission to reclaim the good things in life - love, peace, joy.

Go for it.

Yo 2long - your plan is not wussie, as long as you stick to the schedule.

You may need another branch to account for the scenario in which she gives up contact to "satisfy" you, but only gives a half-fast <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> attempt to work on the marriage. Then what?

You've got mail.

WAT