I wouldn't be surprised if hardly any of you remember me. I recognize a few names, but not many. I used to post here alot a year ago before my H and I passed the "1 year" mark. Now, I don't feel the need to visit here quite so often, but I do every once in a while. Today was one of those "once in a while" times.<P>Even though I'm not surprised, I guess I'm sorry to see Elixir's thread here. I wish you all who are here now could have seen the way things were way back when (Spring/Summer of '98), because things were different then. Granted, we didn't have many betrayers posting on the forum back then, as a matter of fact, the only two who come to mind were Carol ..... yes Glenn's Carol, and then I remember another woman named CJ. But for the most part, those are the only two I can remember. I cannot tell you how much insight myself and many others gained from those two. What they said was not always pretty, but they said things we needed to hear. At any rate, I don't recall any of us beating up on them. I definitely don't recall any name-calling going on until one time Glenn and Whodat got into it, and then D99 showed up and things really started to change.<P>At that time, I was like most of you. As a betrayed and very hurt spouse, I could only feel compassion and empathy for the pain D99 and Glenn felt and I thought they had a right to express it, even if it was in anger. I remember people really giving it to D99 good. He was even banned from the forum, which at the time I thought was very unfair. That was almost a year ago.... (seems like a lifetime ago, though.)<P>But, now, all these months later, all I can say is I feel very bad for D99 and Glenn that they haven't been able to move past this anger. They are stuck, and many of us have moved on. D99, you know I've always supported your right to feel what you are feeling, but I fear for you and your W's future together. Everything you (and Elixir) say is open and honest, but I do hope you really open up your mind, your eyes and your heart to those of us who are rebuilding our marriages and who have found peace, harmony and success. You will note that none of us who are doing well harbor anger, point fingers and refuse to forgive. Those things are a direct contradiction to healing and rebuilding. You cannot rebuild with someone you hate. You cannot rebuild with someone you think is evil. You cannot rebuild with someone you think is a creep by nature. It's just not possible.<P>Elixir, you asked how could a person have an affair? Well, here's how my H's affair happened. H was a very emotionally confused and impaired man, struggling with inner turmoil, depression, and low self esteem with a total inability to communicate these things or his needs to me. The sum of all these things made the impossible possible. He allowed himself to become entangled into a whirlwind of events that resulted in a short term affair which he ended almost as quickly as he began it. At the time this happened, we weren't talking, we weren't intimate, we weren't honest with each other, we weren't close, and we had no idea how to pull ourselves out of this rut. He stupidly did things without considering the possible consequences. I am convinced if he had been able to look into a crystal ball and see the pain it would cause me, he'd have never done it. I believe that with every inch of my being. He never expected me to find out, but when he did, he stood up and faced what he has done honorably, like a man. A "creep" would have continued to deny it. A "creep" would not have accepted responsibility for his actions. A "creep" wouldn't have admitted he was wrong. A "creep" would have continued to do disrespectful and hurtful things in my face. A "creep" would have refused to rebuild with me. <P>No, my H is not a creep, nor is he evil. Not by a longshot. And if I believed he was either of those things, I could no longer stay married to him. (I have a feeling you don't really believe those things about your spouse either, or else you wouldn't still be with them.) It's easy to walk away from a creep, but it's not easy to walk away from someone who you know in your heart is a good person who has made mistakes, maybe done some creepy things, but who really wants to make it up to you.<P>D99, Elixir, and Glenn too if you're reading, you can achieve peace and happiness out of this hell, but you must choose peace and happiness. If you have spouses who are willing to work with you, please try to realize what a blessing that is. All one must do is take a look around this forum at all the betrayed spouses who have unremorseful spouses refusing to end their affairs to see this. <P>Anger is a part of the grieving process, but just don't allow yourselves to get stuck in it. When you do that, everyone loses and I think we've all lost enough already, don't you? Open yourself up moving forward, to forgiveness, to healing and rebuilding. I've been where you are, and believe me, this road is much more pleasant.<P>You can do this. There are so many here who've walked this road before you and can virtually hold your hand through the process. Choose happiness. I did, and I can sit here today and honestly say that I love my H more now than I have ever loved him in my whole life. <P>God Bless.<P>------------------<BR>No one said this (life) was going to be easy.<P><BR>

Laurie<BR>Thank you! I wish you would post here more often. I love to read your words.<BR>I was going through the old posts the other day and came across a lot of yours that helped me when I was lurking.<BR>There was one about an elderly lady at the hospital. I'm sure that was your's wasn't it?<BR>You give such hope to all with your insight.<BR>Just wanted to encourage you to visit more often!!!!!!

Hi Laurie... believe it or not, I can honestly say it really is nice to see you. <P>Only one point of contention... I didn't get into a name-calling match with Glenn; that was pretty one sided. He took issue with the truths I saw for his future should he hold onto his anger. Unfortunately(for both he and Carol), it seems he held on to the anger even tighter. I was really, really hoping it wouldn't happen.<P>Of course, I did get into it with D99... and had to wait in line to do so. I still hold that he has done far more damage to his marriage than his W ever did.<P>...and, of course, a little tiff with you... But I hold no grudges, and have always thought the majority of what you write really says a lot, and says it well. I know you, HGB, K and terri were a BIG help to me earlier this year, when I was trying to find direction for my marriage. Thanks again!<P>WS: I was going to bring that Hospital post to the top! I was still in ultra-lurk mode when I ran across it a few weeks ago, but that is one of the things about MB that I will always remember; likely the main thing Laurie wrote! That one still gives me chills(good ones). If Steve makes a permanent post forum, that one should be right at the top!<BR>

Laurie! Long time no read! <BR>I'm glad to hear that everything continues to be good with you.<BR>You might not remember me as well, at that time I was posting as Katya, then something happened and I couldn't log in so entered with KL again there was a change and had trouble getting him so now Kat1 it is.<P>Yes I rememeber the forum as it was then, and I am really happy that there are more and more betrayers posting here, we can help each other and in the majority of cases it works quite well.<P>Yes every once in a while there's a major controversy in here, and not everybody is able to express their feelings in a more controlled way. But even that ends up bringing some good things - I haven't seen you for so long, or lone start, or doug, if elixir's post did nothing else, at least it got old friends together <BR>I haven't answered her post. Mostly because I can feel her pain, but don't know how open she is to try and put that anger away and channel all that energy into more positive ways,so don't think I can help. but yes when I first read the post I felt like "Hey! only I can call my H a creep!" - and I don't do it anyways <P>ANyway,just wanted to say hi, and tell you that things are also great with me and H,we passed the one year mark - from when the affair started - and are close to the one year mark - from when it ended - . Still things keep getting better and better, and all the issues that were a problem and in some cases led to what happened have been worked on and fixed.<BR>Take care, Laurie<BR>Kat<BR>P.S. You really helped me a lot back then. Thanks <P>------------------<BR>Each and everyone of us is deserving of a kind word, a gentle thought, and the gift of understanding.<p>[This message has been edited by Kat1 (edited September 25, 1999).]

Whodat<BR>Great minds think alike!!!!<BR>I was going to bring it to the top too!!!<BR>Go do it. I come across as too pushy some times so it's your turn!!!

LaurieC-<P>Your post had so much wise advice in it. I don't recall seeing much of you but you sound like a good person. Besides if WS thinks you are good I know you are. She was one of the first people I connected with in this forum,<P>My H is not a creep either. Just a person who niavely thought he could have a drinking buddy of the opposite sex and that that was all it would be. Then one night.... He has said he never meant to hurt me and theat he never considered his relationship with the OW as anything beyond friends.<P>He now knows that such a thing is not possible. And is very sorry for the pain he caused me and our family. I forgave him for both of our sakes.<P>Your success is wonderful. God bless

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR> Go do it. I come across as too pushy some times so it's your turn!!!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>LOL... No... THAT's not too pushy at all! <P>I'll give it a shot; the search function doesn't work too well sometimes...<BR>

Hi Wasstubborn, Kat and Whodat. So glad to hear you all are doing well. And hello Dreamer! I read your post on Elixir's thread and it sure sounds like you have a great, positive outlook. You are blessed. <P>Whodat, the tiff you and I had was over religious expression on the forum. As I recall, it had nothing to do with you being a betrayer and me being a betrayed. I guess I'm specifically referring to the flaming I've seen by the betrayed vs. betrayer and vice versa. We just didn't have much of that before. Carol posted here for months without ever being called names, (except by Glenn ) as I recall. And hopefully it isn't happening too much now either. I don't visit here everyday, so I recognize that posts like Elixir's and D99's may be infrequent. At least I hope so.<P>I'll try to find that post you and Wasstubborn are referring to if I can. I might just have it tucked away some where! <P>God Bless.<P>------------------<BR>No one said this (life) was going to be easy.<P><BR>

Hi, Laurie! (I think I already "hi"'d you over on the hospital thread but what the heck)<P>It is nice to see you back again... you have a great way of *gently* saying things that really need to be said . Yanoo, until about 2 wks ago the board was very positive... then Elixer & D99 popped up and blammo. But overall it's been pretty good. Been doing more lurking than writing lately. Stick around for awhile, Laurie! I think you're needed.<P>Now, speaking of it being nice to see some old names pop up....Whodat, are you now *Officially* out of "ultra-lurk mode"?? Can Dunc & I count on you for a little backup in the trenches ? (only kidding, I'm *trying* to tone it down, but Dunc is on the White Charger again ). Missed your sense of humor around here. Hope all is well with you & yours, 'kay? We're still here!<p>[This message has been edited by suse (edited September 26, 1999).]

Once again, beautiful! 'Nuff said! <P>------------------<BR>Love is meant to heal. Love is meant to renew. Love is meant to oust all fear. Love is meant to harmonize differences. Love is meant to bring us closer to God.

Suse:<P>Thanks for the note. I now post if something really strikes me as needing a response, but "ultra lurk" was more of not posting, no matter what. So who knows. I don't need to be here any more, any more than you do. Things are great. But there is still a draw, particularly to a few stories. <P>As for the "trenches,", I don't think you and Dunc really need My help... that "person" digs their own grave every time they put finger to keyboard.<P>And Laurie... thanks for bringing up the "hospital" story... still gave me goosebumps. I tried to look for it last night, but my own "list topics for the last year" search came up about 2 weeks short. I'll bookmark it for future reference. <BR>

Howdy,<P>You may want to read my post in the thread I started. Your H may not be a creep NOW, but he certainly was when he was unfaithful, or doing hurtful things to you. I recognize that people can change, but only if they take full responsiblity for their actions. <P>I am simply disgusted with those who refuse to take responsibility for their actions/choices and who willingly hurt anybody - especially those supposedly closest to them in life. Like I wrote previously, I want betrayers (betrayers now and those who have not accepted responsibility for their own actions/choices yet) to look at themselves in the mirror and think: "WHY?"<P>Once a betrayer realises that there is no justification for what they are doing I believe that there is hope for them. Otherwise they are stuck in a hellish land of self-deceit and denial which can only continue to hurt themselves and all those close to them.<P>It's amazing the assumptions that people spring to in the absence of information otherwise - considering that everybody didn't know ANYTHING about me or my life the conclusions everybody jumped to were rather interesting... <P>Elixir

Laurie, You and I and my wife Lynn posted correspondence frequently a year ago. Thanks again for your help. Lynn now typically uses the expression that she had an "attack of insanity." I used to think that was crap. I now understand that as being as close as accurate as she can come to an event that, truth be told, hurt her worse than it hurt me--the great suffering betrayed person. When we get locked in a crisis of adultery, it's almost like being locked in the gears of a huge machine. But WE'RE OUT OF THAT NOW! Hallelujah. Thanks again for your help.

Laurie - What wonderful words to read on a Monday morning ! This is why I continue to come and peruse this board. My H is not a creep either (his behavior since discovery sounds pretty similar) and it sounds like they are both good men. I know exactly what you mean, if they were creeps, they would be history. I'm pretty new on this board but my H and I are doing reasonably well and I hope to be reporting my own good news later. <P>I would be curious to know how long it took you to not give in to (that sounds a bit weak, maybe it just experience)the crying. It has been 4 months for me and it seems that at some point every day I lose it. Sometimes it's wrenching sobs, other times it's just quiet tears. I can keep it together when I am around folks (coworkers, kids, etc.) but when I am alone we are off to the kleenex races. <P>Thanks for your input and keep coming around to let us know that there can be sweet success and happily ever afters, even for us currently tryin to mend our hearts (and some have better sewing skills/material than others).

Gosh, it's nice to see the old-timers around and doing well!<P>Laurie, thanks for dropping in!! <P>Bruce, it's great to see you and Lynn are doing well. <P>

Hi, Laurie:<P>Thanks for the nice words. They give hope, and that's important for ALL of us here. Glad to hear that you and your H are doing so well, and I agree 100% with your assessment of how to progress with healing.<P>-----<P>Elixir:<P>Some people probably DID make assumptions from your first post, but keep in mind, your original post didn't define what "creeps" were. It seemed, from the wording you chose, that you were calling ALL betrayers creeps. I am certain now, from reading your follow up posts, that your intent was to chastise continuing betrayers, but that wasn't obvious from the initial post.<P>Sorry if I was one who made assumptions, but we can only respond based on what you tell us! I'm glad you've clarified your position a bit, and I truly hope things continue to get better for you.<P>------------------<BR>/// Lone Star * ///<P><BR>

Bruce,<P>I think of you and Lynn often, especially since you two live in my neck of the woods. Glad to "see" you and glad to hear you are continuing to beat the odds.<P>K,<P>Nice to see you too! I think of you and your W often as well. Read a few of your recent posts and it sounds like things are progressing nicely. I'm very hapy for you.<P>Athena,<P>Hi there! Oh, I cried plenty in the first few months, but my H had been determined from day one to make things up to me, so it actually became harder and harder to cry. I finally got to the point where I was sick of crying, sick of being angry. I wanted LIFE, and at that moment I CHOSE to be happy. I've stumbled from time to time, but my path has remained clear. I wanted to give my H and myself to share the happy life we both wanted now that all of our problems were out in the open. Like I said, it's a choice. But in the beginning, I think we cry for the loss of what we thought we had. After that initial shock, then we make the choice for our furtures. It sounds like you're on your way. <P>Elixir,<P>Yes, you should have been more clear in your posts. Your thread was, "How do YOU creeps do it?" Therefore, we all assumed you were speaking to everyone who has cheated. You didn't say, "How do betrayers who continue to cheat do it?" See the difference? You generalized and therefore we made assumptions. As time has gone on, it may surprise you and others to know that I also don't believe my H was a creep when he was cheating, either. He was confused. He was depressed. He was misguided. He was ill-informed. He was unprepared. And maybe even stupid..... yes, I'll give you that. But, he wasn't then, nor is he now, a creep. But that is based on my definition of a creep. And I suspect it may differ greatly from yours.<P>I am no better than my H. He and I just dealt with a very difficult and confusing time in our lives differently. As time has gone on and the more I read, I've discovered that there are many parameters to infidelity. And something D99 said on the other thread described my H and me. Though I'll never be grateful he cheated, I am grateful for the life we now have together. And for this life to happen, the old one had to crash and burn. Had it not, we'd still be living that way, and that would be the tragedy. Unfortunately, I don't think we'd have ever realized how far we'd sunk without his infidelity staring us in the face. I've come to the conclusion that it was all in God's plan. And God knew we'd make it through it. And we have.<P>God Bless<P>------------------<BR>No one said this (life) was going to be easy.<P><BR>