We have been married almost four years and have two children. My husband broke my heart when I first discovered his internet porn problem and I have caught him in the act two more times (every few months). When I catch him he will confess to multiple incidences. We are highly involved in the our church. He is the Pastor. Every time I catch him he gets a new book, he just got "His needs, Her needs". He also installed an internet filter. But it seems like a bandaid on a cancer. At first I thought it was my fault and I increased our sexual activity and my response. I take care of appearance and try to be as sexy as possible. He insists that I am very sexy to him and that is not the problem. He is doing his best to overcome this.
But I have repeatedly met men I am extremely attracted to (even before the porn problem). I have never acted on it but am currently involved in an emotional affair with a man in our church. It has gotten to the point where we just try to avoid each other. I constantly think about him even though I rationally realize he isn't even my type. I play out scenarios of physical involvement with him in my mind. His wife is pretty nasty to him so that doesn't help things. I feel we would treat each other better than our current spouses do. Sometimes I think if he just told me how he felt I'd get some sort of ego boost and move on- avoiding the affair. But I even have thought at times that I may love him. I find it very hard to feel love for my husband, and even during sex am thinking about this other guy. We have two children I adore and I am willing to do what it takes to give them the best. But this marriage is in crisis.
Beacause he is a pastor, and because of this other man, I dread Sunday mornings. I feel we are hypocrites trying to keep up a facade. There isn't anyone I trust to talk to about this because most people would be shocked and upset to know the truth.
Do I continue to live with a man who has a problem with internet porn? Will this harm our children? Can I feel love for him? And how do I overcome my "love" for this other man?
Maybe someone has answers. I feel I have grounds for divorce as he has been intimate with (even if it was one way) countless strangers on the internet, but I want the best for my children.

Catherine, Welcome to MB. First I am glad you are here and you have a lot in your M to deal with. Has your H confessed his sin to the spiritual leaders in the church? He needs to be held accountable as any member would. He should not, IMHOm, be serving or teaching until he gets help for his addiction. Has he been to counseling?

Ok, now for you. You need to confess your A to your H and go completely NC with OM. You all already too involved if you are thinking about OM while with your H and fantasizing about being together.

Please, both of you get some help. Read the book Not Just Friends, I am sure you will see yourself in there. There is also a terrific book for you called Every Heart Restored for women who's husbands have sexual addictions.

Please keep reading and posting.

God bless

Thank you Faithful for your input. Yes he had confessed. He is being held accountable and even has an accountability partner. For all intents and purposes he is getting help but I can't help but be cynical.
I have confessed my emotional affair to my H and he seems not to understand or recognize the threat. It is hard to establish NC with this man since he goes to our church. And the whole thing is unspoken, maybe I've imagined it all (because nothing has happened) but it seems to me we have done some pretty intense flirting. Since we are avoiding each other I guess we are doing all we can. He seems to be the kind of guy who will do the right thing.
I will read those books, I think the whole porn thing was a terrible blow to my ego. It has made me not even want to have sex with him, I actaully discovered one of the videos and it is hard to get out of my head that he may be picturing that.
Thanks, just venting helps because this stuff is so personal and difficult!!

Hi Catherine,

First of all, let me welcome you to MB! Read my signature, and you'll know you've come to the right place for answers and support. It's very late, and not many of us night owls are still online, so please be patient. The wonderful folks here at MB will be with you at daybreak.

Catherine, if you read some of my earliest postings, you'll find that you and I share almost the exact story. My husband was also addicted to porn - internet and videos. Our scenario was even worse - we didn’t have sex for the last 6 years of our 12-year marriage! Since it seemed we had nothing in common, we steadily grew apart. We became mere roommates. So, when a fun, handsome guy from my tennis league started to pay attention to me – I thought my prayers were answered. I, too, started fantasizing. What began as a friendship quickly turned into an emotional affair, sinking into a physical affair. How was it, you ask? The experience was 1.5 years of anxiety, emotional turmoil, self-loathing, shame and depression that will forever scar me and my family for the rest of my life. So, to answer your questions …

"Do I continue to live with a man who has a problem with internet porn?"

>Unfortunately, this question is for you (and you only) to decide. What I can tell you is that there is help for such an addiction. Go to www.recoverynation.com. It should point you and your husband in the right direction. Also, I suggest that he seek the help of a pro-marriage counselor who specializes in addictions. The key for you to know is that there is help, and people CAN and DO change!

"Will this harm our children?"

>Porn addiction by itself will not hurt your children. However, if the result is that your children will see their mom go through a shameful and painful affair and their parents go through the horrors of a traumatic divorce, it will scar them for life. This is undisputed.

"Can I feel love for him?"

>Absolutely! It will take time, patience and work – on both of your parts. If you’re like me, it’s not “love” that you’ve lost. It’s the loss of respect. For me, being able to “look up to” and “respect” my husband is essential for me to love and to show him affection. He’s going to have to earn that trust and respect while you’re going to have to teach and support him on how to get it back. But first things first – you MUST remove yourself from this other person!!! Additionally, you MUST tell your husband how you feel and your desires towards this other man, so that he can help you through your addiction to the emotional affair. Without this knowledge (which, I also call reality check), your husband will never know the impact of his behavior and thus never be given the opportunity to change and be the husband you need and want him to be. Please, I beg you to NOT make the same mistakes as I and many former/current wayward spouses have made. It’s a path of sorrow, pain and destruction. No matter how you slice it, nothing good comes out of an affair.

If your husband is reading His Needs, Her Needs, I suggest you do the same. It will explain a LOT of things. And, then, keep posting here. You will get the support and guidance you seek. Trust me, if the great folks on this forum can turn me around, they can help anybody.

"And how do I overcome my "love" for this other man?"

>As I mentioned earlier … 1) physically remove yourself from this other person. And, this is where your husband can help versus wondering why you’re acting strangely. 2) with the assistance of your husband, write a no-contact letter to the other person. There are many examples on this forum and website. We'll help you through. 3) do anything and everything to get your mind off of him. Keep busy and do fun stuff - go out with friends, bake, exercise, take your kids on picnics, anything that will keep your mind occupied. In time, the thoughts and feelings will fade. Trust me. 4) start working on your marriage with your husband. Nothing works better to get your mind off of the other person when your emotional needs are met by your husband. Less than 6 months ago, I thought I’d never want to talk to my husband again let alone go out or be intimate with him. Well, I’m pleased to say that things are working just fine in every department, if you know what I mean … considering we just came back from an exciting night of dinner and a concert … hence I’m up so late.

“I feel I have grounds for divorce as he has been intimate with (even if it was one way) countless strangers on the internet, but I want the best for my children."

>It’s very easy to justify a divorce or having an affair, esp. with another man possibly in the wings. Believe me, I came up with at least a thousand different ones every day for 1.5 years! Here’s something to take to heart. As I was driving home tonight (yes, we’re still separated under the recommendation of our marriage counselor), I was listening to a song by Dido called “White Flag.” Even when I was deep in my affair, it always reminded me of my husband. When the song came on the radio on my way home, I broke into tears realizing how instead of being so happy after my date, I could be at home, alone and regretting not ever having experienced tonight for the rest of my life. You see, I was just inches away from filing a divorce less than 3 months ago. So, the question you need to ask yourself is NOT can you justify a divorce but rather can you live with the regret that perhaps you’ve not tried everything to save your marriage? Can you life with the “what if” for the rest of your life?

Please keep posting. You will find your answers here.

Catherine - welcome to MB. You will get the help you need here.

I heard the statistics at a men's conference I attended recently - over 50% of CHURCH STAFF MEMBERS admit to surfing for porn on the internet AT WORK! This is not an uncommon problem.

It is a huge commitment to change one's lifestyle and eliminate porn.

It can happen. And I believe you can have a wonderful relationship with your husband. You will both have to work at it.

The link posted to you is a great place to get help. You might also consider having your husband contact Tal Prince at Beeson School of Divinty - www.beesondivinity.com/templates/cusbeeson/details.asp?id=25215&PID=109040&mast=
He has helped many other overcome this great hurdle.

Please come back to MB with all of your questions. And do not just kind of work on this. Work at it like your family depends on it to survive.

My prayer for success for you and your husband.
BTW - you need to slap him around some (figuratively) and MAKE him understand there is a problem.

Hey vets - is an exposure a good idea here?

Wait to see what they say.

far

catherine29 - All the excuses and rationalizations in the world will not disguise sin indefinitely. So let's start with calling a "spade" a "spade."

Pornography is a sin. Do you need the details as to "why" it is or are the 10 Commandments enough?

Your fantasy about the church member seems to be just that, a "fantasy" in your mind....at this point. It is also a very dangerous temptation point for YOU. You have committed, as the saying goes, "adultery in your mind." But so far you have NOT acted upon your feelings or fantasies. DON'T. Untold misery awaits you if you "give into" temptation.

It's not uncommon, but it is sad, to see Satan so successfully at work attempting to destroy your lives and ministry.

catherine, let me speak directly to you for a minute. YOU are married. YOU chose marriage "in sickness and in health, for better or for worse, for richer or for poorer, forsaking ALL others, until death do us part." What part of YOUR marriage covenant with God and with your husband do you not understand? It does NOT matter if it's "easy" or not. YOU made a commitment to your husband and to God. YOU brought God INTO your marriage along with you. Is ANYTHING hidden from God? Does God lie? Is God "okay" with blatant, willful, sin by anyone, much less someone who has accepted the terrible price paid by Christ and surrendered their lives to GOD...not themselves and certainly NOT to Satan?

These questions apply equally to your husband...as I am sure you know.

I am NOT going to "mince words" with you or your husband.

What I will do, as another brother who has had HIS sins forgiven by God, is to "remind you" (you and your husband) of your "First Love," Jesus Christ. [color:"red"]If you love me, keep my commands. He that loves me will DO what I command.[/color]

For your husband, a "stern warning," God will NOT hear the prayers of a sinner who claims to be His child through Christ as long as the sinner is unrepentant. Your husband is Christ's "stand in," "representative," both as the shepard of his flock and as the commanded "head of your household." To your husband, this question; WWJD? If you consider iniquity in your heart, do not partake in the Lord's Supper until you confess your sins, forsake them, and recommit to humble obedience to God's commands....no matter how "hard" it might seem to be able to do. There IS only one "unforgiveable sin," but there ARE consequences to sin that one may also have to live with for the rest of their lives, despite being forgiven for the "sin." Do NOT tempt God. I give you both the answer that Christ gave to the adulteress....[color:"red"]go NOW and LEAVE your life of sin.[/color] Not tomorrow, not "when I feel ready," but NOW!

I can wrap my arms around both of you, as a fellow forgiven sinner, but this is not the time for that. There will be plenty of time for that later. This is the time to "confront" both of you, according to Matthew 18:15-20. This is the time for you each to face the sin and make a choice as to whom ye shall follow....."but as for me and my house, we will follow the LORD."

May God grant you and your husband His wisdom and the strong conviction of the Holy Spirit. KNOW that "I can do all things through him (Jesus Christ) who gives me strength." It is NOT a matter of "easy" or "hard." Christ's resources are enough for anything you face as you follow him and let him lead. Put Jesus back on the throne of your lives and LEARN the lessons that willful disobedience teaches before all the "good things" are consumed and Satan laughs. You do NOT have to do this alone or in your own limited strength...Jesus waits to help, even to carry you, until you have regained your strength and the ability to walk alongside of Him.

One last thing for you, catherine, God's "triangle" of marriage is TRUE. As you both follow Him in obedience and grow closer to God in your individual walks, you WILL also simultaneously grow closer to each other, in love, as the "distance" between you grows narrower. That IS one of God's promises to HIS partners in the marriage covenant.

God bless.

I realize that porn is a problem that your H needs to deal with but I think you being involved in an A(s) is the real problem here.

Are you using his porn use as validation or just a diversion to take the attention off of your own poor marital behavior?

You will find plenty of people here to jump on your bandwagon against porn use,if that's what you're after. Don't convince yourself that his porn use is validation for your wayward ways.

ForeverHers,

I could not have said it better myself. Catherine, listen to him. He is warning you, a warning straight from Christ Himself. There are many steps away from Him...there is only one step back.

Heed the warnings Catherine, before it is too late.

In His arms.

Catherine,

If you ever need to talk to someone without 2x4's, feel free to email me ... [email]whisper28@excite.com.[/email] I've been there and have come through to the other side. So can you!!!

Hang in there. Be strong.

Just out of curiousity, Whisper28, what do you consider a "2x4" and what about it, or what has been said, is apparantly offensive to you?

Instead of thread-jacking, I've started a new post to ForeverHer's question: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...;page=0#2759343

Sorry, Catherine.

ba109 and Mortarman I think you are being a little harsh. I am not here to make excuses for my actions (which by the way I have not been unfaitful in MY ACTIONS, only my thoughts. Though I realize thoughs can also be sinful words like "poor marital behavior" and "wayward ways" imply more than a struggle to stiffle a growing attraction). I think most everyone struggles with temptation so the fact that I have struggled before does not make me an adulteress!
And actually YES I would like someone to jump on the bandwagon against porn, I am extremely hurt and confused by his actions! He has actually engaged in a physical action of infidelity. Again my struggle is still internal. And that is also what I came here to get help with, instead of running to this other man!
I don't see why you think my emotional affair is the real problem here, are you minimizing the porn issue because you are a man and see it as more innocent? Both things are the problem. Although my temptation is wrong, at least it based on a real person and not some degraded young woman depersonalized and turned into an object.
I certainly agree with you that I am tempted to use his porn as validation of my POTENTIAL wayward ways. But Whisper28 is right, you are swinging the 2x4's with absolutely nothing constructive to contribute.
Thanks to all the rest of you, you have given me very insightful things to think about, plus great resources! I will be watching for more constructive input but now I am aware that even on this board where people have gone through these things, there are some who can only react with judgement.
Whisper28, foreverhers, foundareason, and faithfulfollower, I really learned alot from your posts!!

Catherine..if you remember, Jesus told us in the Sermon on the Mount that lusting in your heart after another is the same as committing the act.

First of all, let me say that my heart goes out to pastoral staff and their families. (my grandfather was a pastor) I believe they have the most difficult of lives and because of their position are faced with more temptation than anyone else. After all you're doing God's work (as we all are) but in a more public established arena. Satan takes delight in seeing men/women of God's clay feet exposed. It does more damage.

I recently read a book by Randy Alcorn entitled Lord Falgrin's letters. While fiction, it reminded me how much is done by the unseen to attempt to destroy us. I think that's just what's happening here. You're both under tremendous demonic attack and influence.

Your husband is tormented with pornography and you with the attraction of someone you could respect. You're both being attacked and mightily. Your husband obviously sees what he's doing is wrong and is searching for help and you coming here shows that you also know that this is wrong. I so feel for both of you.

You want Satan to win? You want your failed marriage and the loss of his position to discourage baby Christians or turn away those searching for faith? No, of course not. No gossip spreads faster than the tales of a failed man/woman of God. What you want is for God to be glorified by your lives. That's possible.

Please find you a good Christian counselor. Your denomination should help. Could it be that your husband is burned out as is so common with pastors? Could it be that you're exhausted because the pastor's wife is so difficult? It seems as if you're both wishing to escape.

Catherine, I'll remember you both in my prayers. Take your eyes off the situation and keep them on Him. Please find help for both you and your husband and know my heart goes out to you both.

catherine29 - I understand the sensitivity you are feeling. No one is "judging" in the manner I think you are implying. You have to remember that you, yourself, classified your actions (mental, etc.) as being "currently involved in an emotional affair with a man in our church. It has gotten to the point where we just try to avoid each other.(This sentence tells me that the OM also recognizes it as an affair and as "wrong.") I constantly think about him even though I rationally realize he isn't even my type. I play out scenarios of physical involvement with him in my mind. "

It seems to me (a judgment) that you ARE involved in an Emotional Affair. While it may not be as "bad" as a Physical Affair, for most women the "more important" part of an affair IS the emotional side. For most men it tends to be the physical side. Hence, we are agreeing with your own assessment and begging you to "halt" before it progresses any further.

I, for one, have no doubt that part of your EA is a reaction to your husband's "affair" with Porn. While it, too, is most likely "all in his mind and not actually physical" with anyone else, YOU are nontheless still a "Betrayed Spouse." The marital vows HAVE been violated and the "forsaking all others" vow has been betrayed. Looking for "outside comfort and fulfilment" of your own Emotional Needs is a common reaction. It does NOT make it "right" action, but it is a common reaction that compounds affairs and complicates recovery from an affair.

So let me be certain to make it clear that I think the ROOT problem is your husband's infidelity through the use of Porn AND his lack of being the spiritual head of your household as Christ is the head of the Church. There are many problems associated with Porn usage, but by far the biggest problem your husband has is his disobedience to God's commands. He IS the appointed spiritual head of your household, and is, by virtue of his position as a Pastor, the spiritual shepard of the congregational flock. Willful disobedience, unrepentant, of God's commands IS a "disqualifying" position for a position of leadership. Your husband is playing with fire of "biblical proportions," not just for himself or for you, but for the damage that his "false witness" can bring to others, especially those in his flock who are "weaker in the faith."

Let me give you a resource that I beg you to avail yourself, as a couple, of. It is Christian counseling with trained counselors who are members of the National Association of Nouthetic Counselors. You can search the website for counselors in your area. The counseling is confidential and is usually free of charge as it is part of their ministries.

I also have some pamphlets that I could email to you if you'd like them.

Here is the website for NANC:

National Association of Nouthetic Counselors

catherine29 - It is going to be important that your husband has an accountability partner. It is also important that your husband understand that he needs to surrender to God and to obey God....there is no room for "ya, but..."

It is also not enough to simply say "I won't do....such and such any more." Bad habits not only need to be denied, they need to be replaced with "good habits" so that the "void" is filled. God himself does the best filling, but it may also help your husband to engage in some activity that does NOT require the use a computer or magazines that make access to Porn very easy and very tempting.

God bless.

Catherine,
I'm sorry you are going through this. My ex was a youth group leader (acting as youth pastor) and had a porn problem which he admitted to and then hid. I think it may have had a hand in desensitizing him to sin so badly that after a while he didn't think having an emotional affair and abandoning his family was so bad...

I would like to point out something...

You are insisting that you are "ONLY having thoughts...", well he hasn't physically touched another woman, he has "only" had fantasies and thoughts while looking at them....much like you having fantasies and thoughts about the other man while having sex with your husband...???

At this point you are both in the wrong. I know what it's like to be led astray by the continual sin of the priest of your home. And you know what? Even though I still feel that HE is the one who destroyed our family, I don't have the complete innocence in it that I could have had, and it is hard to look back and regret not staying closer to God and doing better...

Catherine, I think you FIRST need to search your heart and find TRUE repentance for your emotional affair (which is what it it - mt ex's EA was supposedly only in his mind and not the OW's, it still destroyed our marriage). Then, talk with your husband and the two if you need to go before the elders and confess EVERYTHING that both of you have been going through. You may need to consider stepping down from your positions of leadership for a while too...the elders should be able to help figure that part out. But mostly, this all needs to get completely exposed to the light, for in the darkness is where it grows..........

Also, you guys need to talk with a professional christian marriage counselor - someone outside the church!!!!!!!
((((Catherine))))

Foreverhers, I want you to know that I looked up that link and could not find any counselors in my area but I will continue to search. Jph I agree with your thoughts on the spiritual side of this situation. I have seen many people hurt by Pastors involved in sin.
Faithhopelove04, I am so sorry for your situation. I can't imagine how challening that must be to deal with. I am very thankful that he is willing to work on his part. I am willing to work on my part too, just every time I think I've overcome it- there it is... I have not attempted to push the envelope with this other guy in any way. But I think my resolve would be weak if he decided to do so.
This message board helps, I am seeing more clearly what I already knew: Counseling is our best hope.

Dear Catherine,

Please take a look at the following link – I’m sure you will find it very helpful:

Growing through & defeating temptation

Also give it to your H to read.

Blessings and prayers to you,
Suzet

Why are you comparing notes with your H? Yes he has a porn issue but you have infidelity to deal with. YOU admit to being currently involved in an emotional affair.



Anyone on this site will tell you that an EA is infidelity...with potential to become a PA. So you are already cheating on your H.

You ARE using his porn use to validate your temptations to have an EA or a PA. Two wrongs don't make a right.

I don't think that you realize that YOU are minimizing the severity of your EA and your temptation to stray from the marriage.

Get your focus back on yourself. How can you help your H if your own head isn't screwed on straight?

Just curious as to your train of thought here. How does his porn use equate to a 'physical' act of infidelity? Because he masturbated? I think I would tend to lean more towards emotional infidelity in this case.

In that event, you are both straying emotionally from the marriage...and again, two wrongs don't make a right, so stop pointing fingers.

jmo

Not sure how I was being harsh. I was agreeing with ForeverHers. And trying to help you.

That isnt what Jesus says. There is a huge difference between temptation and sin. Jesus was tempted many times. Did He sin? Of course not. So, temptation is not sin...it is what you do with it. You took the hurt your husband was causing, added with the void he was leaving in you, and allowing another man to have an emotional affair with you. You have admitted as such. And it has gotten so deep that you have considered turnign it into a PA. This is well beyond temptation.

As many women are. I had similar problems years ago. And yes, they are sinful and wrong. No execuses. The whole porn problem needs to be addressed because it is no more better or worse than your EA or a person having a PA. So, I agree...this is a huge issue.

Yes, he was. But when you word it the way you just did, you seem to be saying that you were not engaged in a physical action of infidelity. And you were. Your EA wasnt just in your mind. You acted upon it in many ways. Some may call this a 2x4. But you are never going to get the help you need and your marriage needs as long as you rationalize and justify your EA. Your EA was wrong...just as wrong as his porn. Just as wrong as any PA.

How is it internal? Sure, the PA hasnt happened yet. But you two have already crossed the line long ago. Again, I caution you that you are trying to make your EA different and less of a sin than your husband's issues. And it isnt. God finds both of your actions to be sin, with the same penalty.

I minimize nothing. But you are minimizing your EA. Sin is sin. Murder is no worse than a PA. Stealing is no worse than an EA. Neither his porn problem nor your EA are innocent. They are sin, punishable by the same punishment that comes with ANY sin...death. Fortunately, someone took our place for those sins. Jesus took the place for your husband's porno issues. He also took your place for your EA.

EXACTLY!!!

Again, YOU rationalize. Maybe your husband would say "Well, at least I wasnt involved with a real person, there were no emotions." Dont you see?? You are BOTH equally as wrong. Neither of you are following the Lord. Neither of you are any better or worse. Until you see that, then all of this will feel like 2x4s.

Me not constructive? I think you havent been on here long enough to know me. I am VERY constructive. But after being here a long while, I have learned that a WS (which yo uare right now, just as your husband is) cannot be helped until they first realize exactly what they have done and realize the truth about what they have done. Until you understand the truth of your EA, and that it is no different than what your husband has done, then you will stand there believing that you arent the problem. And you are the problem...half of it. We can help you, and your husband. I have had a porn problem. I understand what he is going thru. And I do not minimize what it is doing to him, as well as what it does to you. It is sin...and adultery...plain and simple. But your EA is also sin...and adultery...plain and simple.

Some do judge. Actually, we all judge. Which Christ tells us to do. We are to judge.

Now, here is the constructive part of my post here. I think much of what others have written to you is great. But your first step must be on your knees asking forgiveness from Jesus and for strength to move forward. Fro mthere, you MUST go to your husband, tell him the full deal and ask him for forgiveness.

I know, I know. What about him? Well, if you can get him to come here, I'll put a boot in his hindparts also. But right now, you are here. And it is only you that we can help right now.

Once you have owned up to your sin and your responsibilities, then we can help you come up with a plan as some have suggested above, to help your husband get out of this mess that he is in. And to get your marriage back on track.

I do not want to 2x4 you. But Jesus doesnt always give you a hug. Sometimes, He has to give us a butt whooping to get us back on track. I would love to help, and because I have been where your husband is, I do understand the depth of his problem. But this thread is for you first.

You must get the log out of your own eye, before trying to pull the splinter out of your husband's. Like I said, neither of you are better or worse than the other.

In His arms.