Hi All,

Long time no post. I hope you all are well.

So my question is not only would you consider dating a person who was a WS in their former-marriage, but also what would you require to know about them which indicates they had learned from the experience.

I know being a WS can happen to the best of us. But as a former-BS I need help with knowing what signs (words/actions) to look for that indicate there is less of a risk.

Very Best, and thanks in advance for reading.
Jo

yes, i would, BUT,

1) I would want to know his FOO history first, to see if there was a pattern that he was repeating.

2) Did he volunteer the information right up front? and his actions as he told you about it?

3) his affair would have to be along time ago, such that he has matured if he was young.

4) i would listen carefully to his words, and compare his actions with his words until i knew if his reality matched your reality.

watch what he says under pressure, does he blame others easily or does he take responsibility right away?

If there is a misunderstanding, how does he handle it?

is he quick to anger? does he push you and then blame?

There are alot of signs of inconsistency between talk and actions. those are the signs to watch for, never believe the words over the actions, never believe the blaming over the taking of self responsibility. . .

so you ask him, how has he changed because of the divorce? and can he give a long thoughtful answer to the question? and is the answer believable, backed up by his actions?

wiftty

Hi Jo,

As a former WS who had an EA, I would suggest you find out what they learned about themselves and why they made the choice they did. (not simply saying I was unhappy in my marriage)

What did they feel was missing in their life/marriage that led to the choice they made.

Knowing what they do now, IF they could go back and do things differently what specific things would they do differently other than NOT having the affair?

How would they have addressed the issues with their previous spouse that they weren't happy with the way things are going in their marriage? And what would they have been willing to do to make those changes?

Now, I realize that even if a person makes internal changes even after being a WS and chooses to stay and work on the marriage, the other spouse doesn't ALWAYS want to make the changes needed in order to protect the marriage in the future, and the marriage still ends, because the problems were never addressed and dealt with.

Hope this helps a little

Thanks wiftty. He does talk about his responsibility as a WS and he does express remorse. He volunteered telling me he was a WS. He said he felt it was the honest thing to do.

Although I feel it's quite early IMO to be talking about such heavy stuff, I guess it's important to do so.

Jo

Hey Jo....howztigoin?

Let me give you my .02 as a former WS and as a former BS.

The short answer to your question is yes...

My reasoning is that I know what being a WS did to me and the people around me including (in particular my XW) and I have the added "benefit" I suppose of being on the other end of that whole infidelity debacle.

Being a WS (once) made me realize that I could never put another thru that type of hurt and pain...and, this is important in my instance....I also put myself thru a lot of pain as the WS....

I know the commonly held feeling here is that the WS gets to skate thru all of this with no emotional pain and suffering and I will grant you that may happen in some cases but I know for sure it doesn't happen in all the case because I know how painful and difficult it was for me....

All that being said, I think you have to have your antenna on full alert to save you from serial cheaters, players and others...

But I personally don't think it is fair (and this is my own opinion people...everyone can come to their own conclusion here) that you can paint all WSs with the same brush or make a blanket statement about them.

We are all individuals and gather wisdom and learn from our experience--however painful---

To me it would be a shame to miss out on that special someone who has learned the "hard way" about what it means to be a WS....

I know I am probably swimming up stream here, but I believe under the right circumstances it could make the previous WS the more loyal, caring and understanding partner than someone who hasn't "been there."

So what to look for? The usual: honesty, commitment, comfort level---hell, Jo, sometimes you just have to trust you gut. Intuition is a very strong indicator, but I bet you already know that, right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

What brings up the question?

Thinkin' of someone?

Just be careful out there. K? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Take Care

E

Hi TR,

How are you?

I was hoping a former-WS would respond to this. Thank you.

Knowing my background, I'm sure you can understand why I need some help with this.

I'm a bit bummed about this new revelation, I would much prefer just having fun with him then to delve into any of this. But I know it's probably necessary.

Thank you again for your help.
Jo

Jo,

I'm doing great thanks <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You know, it's good he was upfront and honest in the beginning, because it gives you the choice from the get go
to know if YOU want to pursue a further relationship knowing this information.

I'm sure he has found that if he waited to let you know this you may have felt he was hiding something from you, and then wondering what other things is he hiding from you?

And it can help to build a trust, even if the 'dating' relationship doesn't work out, you could remain friends.

It's okay your bummed knowing this information, but knowing it NOW as opposed to later on in the relationship gives you the opportunity to work through any feelings you may have regarding this.

Think about if you had been dating a year and you were more emotionally involved than you are now and he told you this information. It would make you ask ALL of the same questions your asking right now, only with more emotional turmoil going on inside of you.

He is being open and honest with you, and allowing you the choice based on THE TRUTH to determine if you are okay with dating someone who has cheated before.

And I think in looking at things posted on this board alot of BS's would RUN away from the relationship based on that knowledge alone, and he has probably encountered that reaction in the past and he's learned to be upfront and honest about it.

Hoping that you will not judge or condemn him for his previous choices.

I guess I see it as he's taking a risk being so open in the beginning with you knowing you were a BS. He's probably thinking she'll either accept me for me knowing my past or she won't, and if she doesn't that's okay, I can respect that, and if she can great I'll have the opportunity to show her how much I've learned and changed.

I realize not all WS's learn from their mistakes, but as ELAD pointed out--some of us really have learned and changed.

Resilient,

I am a FWS, and I guess you could say I would be the epitomy of Thorned Rose's post.

I did have an A, confessed it to my exH, and we attempted recovery. I take FULL responsibility for my A, and if I could have done things different, I would have asked my exH for a separation or a D instead of turning to another man (I had already asked for MC, brought up the fact that I was unhappy, etc). My exH did not want, or was unable to, address the problems in the M. During the 'recovery' period, he did not work on himself, and as a result, our M was also lost. I do not hold anything against him (even his EA), and I have forgiven him, as he has me. But we realize that we could not be together the way we were.

OTOH, I have been in counseling for 2 years, and spent a lot of time here on MB learning and acquiring knowledge about myself, and why I actually had an A. I tell all people up front about my A. Why? Because at this point, it IS a part of who I am. Not that I would do it again, but rather, I did do it then, and have learned so much from the whole experience. My M, my A have played a HUGE role in driving me to who I am today.....which is who I want to be.....an honorable, self respecting, confident (but not arrogant <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />), and happy person.

It's taken me 2 years to get to where I am today. I'm not happy about the D, but I am happy that I wanted to stand up for the honorable things in M. And I was willing to fight for them. My exH chose that he did not want to change, that he did not want our M to change.....and our M did not survive. He's not at all a bad person. But in essence, we both screwed up.

I would hope that in the future, someone would want to date me. Honestly, because I want to have a faithful, committed relationship with someone mature enough to know that M is not all about 'feelings'. M is work....period. And we all screw up...some in our M, some in our work, some with our family. But what's most important is that we learn from it.

I would hope someone would have an open heart to me.

Wow E, it's been forever. BTW: I read your latest where you and your GF have parted. I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you're doing okay.

I'm so glad you responded to me. I know you've lived both sides of this coin. So I very much respect hearing from a former-WS' POV.

It's true it's not fair. There are certainly reasons to believe that a one time WS isn't going to repeat. I would hope by now I could recognize characteristics of a serial cheater, or as you put it "a player". I guess all one can do is trust again, and rely on instincts and intuition regardless of how scarey that can be for a former-BS.

I hope you are well and happy.
Jo

In all honesty, I probably wouldn't.

I agree that someone who cheated once and not more *may* have done what they need to do to now be a safe prospect. And I agree that it's your choice to investigate that or not and decide what you want to do accordingly.

But the question was "would you date a person...", and my answer is no, I wouldn't.

Hey Jo...

Yeah it has been awhile...I am doing OK....and yeah GF and I split...I am trying to figure out if I did the right thing or made one of my dumber moves (and believe me I have done a lot of dumb things). <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

It was just hard, ya know? I mean I had these ghosts from my marriage hovering over that relationship and it sure wasn't fair to her....poor timing I think on my part.

The sad thing is that we have been friends for 20 years and I miss her friendship...(and, well, some stuff besides just the friendship, ya know? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />) but I know I gotta figure all this out on my own.

It sounds like the guy you are seeing has been honest to tell you about his past upfront.

But, as in all relationships I think as you proceed and get to know him better you will be able to decide if this is right for you. Time has a way of letting us figure a lot of things out if we let it...that's probably something I should have paid better attention to.

But the bottom line is I am doing OK...and it sounds like you are doing OK and just being cautious....nothing wrong with that.

Take care

E

Jo, I don't know about you, but I've made a lot of mistakes in my past. I hope those pasts mistakes won't prevent me from finding true love in the future. I think what is more important than what he, or any of us, did in the past is what we learned from it and how we are feeling and behaving right now. If he's trying to minimize his infidelity and blame in on his X, that's different than if he, like others here, has learned from his mistake and made changes in himself. Especially important, is he able to be honest with you about what he wants/needs? Is he interested in knowing what you want/need? I know it's early in your relationship so I don't mean big things necessarily, but just on a day to day basis. Is he able to share his feelings rather than bottle them up or deny them?

I, too, feel burned by my STBXH's infidelity and on-going relationship with MOW, but I made the mistake of marrying a cheater who blamed his XW for his behavior and continued to exhibit this kind of behavior throughout our relationship, even before I married him. It was my denial of my own wants/needs/feelings that lead to my pain. Blaming him won't get me a better relationship in the future. He's living with his poor decisions and I'm living with mine.

I'd look for what he's done about his past mistakes rather than just at the mistake itself.

Hi L.I.T.,

Thanks for your response. I have no doubt you will find a healthy, loving relationship one day. Your wishes are no different than mine, LIT. And we, BS and WS alike, seem to have learned from what we've been through. So give it time and treat yourself well.

There are still times that I semi-lash out at WS's on this board and sometimes in RL when I see them not owning, hence denying, their actions and it's subsequent fallout from their affairs. I know it has more to do with my history than anything else. I also know it's a disrespectful judgment of people when I do so. Still learning.

I have learned so much from MB, and having WS' here has been a key element in helping most us BS understand our former-spouse's side of things, even when it's very hurtful to hear. And even when it has pissed me off. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

Very Best,
Jo

MOS,

I, in a ba-zillion years would have never considered dating a WS. It would be like asking for another round of Jerry Springer.

It took me several years to recover from my past to get to where I'm at now - a healthy, peaceful, serene and stable life. So as a BS, I do know why you answered the way you have. And I respect your POV.

Love,
Jo

Hi LetsTry,

I hope you're doing okay. I know you're still struggling with finalizing your divorce.

He (Date Guy) is keenly aware of my past and all which that implies regarding his past. We've had several talks about the subject. He seems very forthcoming about it, and has gone to extremes to explain anything I have questions about.

With the relationship being so fresh, thus far they are all words. My radar is up for the time when actions take place that need to match.

I'm wondering, regardless if the person you date was a former-WS or not, do all BS' radars kick-in when one starts to date?

Jo

"Would You Date a Person Who was a Former WS?"

Date, maybe.

Marry, no.

I don't think I could either. When I do decide to start dating I will be looking for red flags. A former WS is defintely a red flag for me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I have to admit, the last two responses are the exact reason I'm so afraid to admit my past to anyone I date. I know in my heart I'm not the same person, I know why things happened (not saying there is EVER an excuse) and I have no intentions of getting involved with the same type of person I was married to (an alcoholic who was never, ever there and who was very verbally abusive among other things). I know the mistakes I made that allowed infidelity on my part to happen.

But, I know that most people can't get past the "once a cheater, always a cheater" and the minute I tell any worthwhile prospect what happened, they'll bolt. I don't want to "date" people all my life. I truly still want the Christian marriage I've always prayed for. However, I know that when it comes right down to it, my chances of ending up with the type of person I'm looking for are statistically near zero, because they don't have to settle for someone as tainted as me.

Would I date a former WS? It would depend on the circumstances. Would I date one who has done what my ex did? NO! (Among his other issues, he had two lengthy in-my-face affairs and showed little remorse for the first and none for the second--he's still with her).

But for me, someone with alcohol issues or porn issues, or frankly someone who doesn't share my Christian beliefs is a far bigger red flag than someone who has made a WS mistake. For me, it's not so much what the person has done, but what kind of a person they are in general. That I think is a better predictor of future behavior.

But alas, I still know I'm screwed... (that's why I'm not saying "boo" the awesome guy I'm currently dating, because I know he will probably feel the same as you guys do, as his wife left him due to an EA on her part.)

Being a WS never leaves a person. It's like a brand that I will carry to my grave. I have asked for forgiveness from God, but I can't seem to forgive myself. SOOO much worse than being a BS! (I can attest to that because I've experienced both.)

LL

I realize that it's scary to admit it to dating prospects if you were once a WS.

But I think being up front about it is the best strategy, for your own benefit, not just for others'. Any attempt to be less than Radically Honest about it realistically looks like a continuation of WS-type behavior, and the idea is to show by your conduct that you are nothing like that anymore.

My conduct for the last 8 years, including the time period when I was separated (when many people go ahead and start dating--something I would have never dreamed of doing) has shown over and over that I'm not the same person. But this guy I'm dating wasn't around during those 8 years, so he can't see that.

All he's going to see is that I slept with someone else when I was married.

Let's be really honest--that's all anyone is going to see.

The hard part is that I'm already starting to develop some feelings toward him, and I know it's going to hurt like h*ll when I have to tell him, because it's going to be reliving that whole thing again which is very painful in and of itself, and then I'm probably going to have the pleasure of feeling my heart break as I watch him walk.

It's not that I'm trying to hide things. I have every intention of being totally open with anyone I'm with, about who I talk to, what I do, where I am, access to anything they want access to (I didn't have a long-term secretive affair, so it's not like I used those methods ever anyway). It's just that I would so like to somehow "disconnect" from that person I once was and not have to drag the consequences of my actions with me for the rest of my life.

It seems like just about anything else in life is forgivable. If someone is a recovered alcoholic, people don't look down on them--they support them. Same with a recovered anything else, or someone who has made other mistakes. Heck, we don't even necessarily look unfavorably anymore on someone who has had sex with several people during their lifes as a single person. That seems to be okay (when in reality, if one is a Christian, they should believe that this is also just as wrong in God's eyes).

But being a WS seems to trump all else, no matter what the circumstances.

And yes, I find this really frightening when it comes to my own future.

LL