I know we talked a little about this in a previous topic, but....

Do guys really think this kind of stuff works? Or maybe it does on some women, I don't know. I just don't see too many women responding favorably to something like this...

I got a response from one of the on-line dating sites. The subject of his mail was "I like curves." Ok, good start. I have a picture up, and he was not put off by my size.

(As an aside, this was from match.com, which I just haven't figured out yet. I've found it almost impossible to find anyone that looks like a possibility for me there when I search. They are all looking for "fit and toned" or whatever the other phrases that equate to "not fat" are, and there's no real way to search for some that don't care or are attracted to larger women. Yet that's the site I've gotten the most "quality" responses from, several from guys who, when you look at their profile, their preferences for dates are of the "not fat" categories. I can't figure out if they were so overwhelmed by the charms of my profile that they were able to get past my size <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />, or if they just subscribe to the myth that a fat woman is an easy score - somehow, I'm guessing the latter. None of them have been intriguing enough for me to actually pay for match to find out though.)

At any rate, back to the e-mail that started this post. He started out well with the subject, but then the e-mail says "Would you be open to something on-going and physical." After a brief physical description of how he currently looks (his profile did have a picture, but hair and facial hair are evidently now different,) he says "with good communication we could have alot of fun."

Ok, so I'm not stupid. Yes, I know where this one is headed. I already sent back a "not interested" message.

But really, do guys think this works? And am I really naive, and it really DOES work?

On the other hand.... I've gotten to the point where I don't even bother to respond at all to a lot of the ones who have e-mailed me. Most are too obviously looking for one thing only and/or too illiterate (and frequently both) for me to even bother wasting time or energy on a serious response. But I did at least give this guy a "not interested" because, other than the fact that he was obviously only interested in S*X, he actually seemed to be a nice, intelligent guy. And I have to admit, at least he was a honest about it (well, I guess the ones who have been blatantly crude have also been honest, but I put them in a different category altogether.) That doesn't mean I'd give him a chance at all at this point, but I did at least want to be courteous.

The thing is, given my weight, I'm not someone who gets approached by guys a lot - though still a lot more than many people would probably think. But because I know I'm someone a lot of guys would never even consider, I have to admit to being a little flattered by this. Though I know I probably shouldn't be. And flattered or not, I still can recognize and back off from the ones looking for a quick score.

Is this kind of stuff normal though? Is it just me? Or am I just being really, really naive about the guys that are out there?

I'm confused. What else does his e-mail say? Perhaps he should have waited to ask something like that... but at least he was up-front about it. Some girls are "open to something on-going and physical".

.... if I'm understanding your question...

oops. I'm not a guy. But I'm on match. And trying to figure some of this stuff out too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

"But really, do guys think this works? And am I really naive, and it really DOES work?"

Yes, it absolutely does work. Just not on you. Ladies, you just have to get real about on-line dating. Most - not all - but most men are there looking for sex partners. Most - not all - but most women are there looking for Mr Big Bucks.

Yes, osxgirl, there are men who figure that a large latdy is desperate for sex. Rather than go through a "dry spell", they figure that they can kill two birds with one stone: get some sex and do that poor fat girl a favor. I have a friend who is an the large side (she's working on her weight problem now) who treid on-line dating. She met plenty of men who were interested in her -- for sex. But they wanted her to be their "secret GF." God forbid that any of their friends see them with a fat woman! That's not only sick in the head, it's unbelievably cruel.

Everything is normal in on-line dating. Or perhaps it's more correct to say that on-line dating makes everything abnormal normal. For the relationship minded, it's a waste of time. I include e|Harmony in this, since it's not only a scam, but the people there are just willing to pay more money to find sex partners or a sugar daddy.

The thing is, I had assumed that the advent of such adult dating sites such as Adult Friend Finder and LavaLife Intimate Encounters, would entice the sex-seekers to abandon the regular dating sites, but this hasn't happened. If you want to experience the bizzare, visit one of these sites. Imagine being matched on kinks and people exchange picutres of their genitals, videos of them having sex, etc. as a prelude to a kiss.

Oh and a warning to men: horney men, especially those who aren't the "best catches" are often marks on these sites for professional scammers. Beautiful young girls from Russia answer these mens' posts, strike up a relationship, and then use a number of scams to get money from them. Some of these sites are used to get women into the U.S. for prostitution. Many a man has found a foreign bride from Russia, Asia, and elsewhere, married her and brought her back to the States, only to have her disappear in a few weeks.

Does it work? Sure. Just not on everybody. Guys who use that kind of approach fall along a spectrum -- from fairly expert pickup artists who know how to play averages to the hopelessly socially inept who choose not to know better.

Dealing in person, I don't tend to run into trouble from the socially adept player types -- they can generally tell with one look that I'm not a prospect for a quick jump to the physical. (I haven't figure out *how* they tell, but they do, which I'm happy about.) But online, it's harder to get that kind of impression, so it makes sense to me that some would just ask and be fine with getting shot down a whole lot, hoping to eventually get to a yes.

Faith1 -

That's really all his e-mail said. "ongoing and physical," brief description of how he looks now, and that "with communication we could have a lot of fun."

The stuff about him being a nice guy - he had a fairly nice profile up. But that was the extent of the e-mail.

And yes, it is confusing. Especially when you tend to be honest and straightforward, and usually believe the best of people. I debated a couple of times about telling a few of the people on here how I handle things - which is that I just completely ignore about 99% of the e-mail I get from the dating sites. I too tried to answer every one politely at first. Eventually I recognized that a lot of them were just sending out a short, to the point e-mail to whomever they thought they might have even a slight chance of scoring with, on the spammer theory - it may be annoying to most of the people, but if even one of them answers back positively, it was worth it.

CheckUrHeart -

Yeah, I guess I did know that some guys really think that about fat women. And I guess it probably is true for some that are not comfortable with themselves or have let attitudes about fat affect their self-esteem. But really, if THAT'S all I'm looking for, I can find it anywhere! I mean, I have gotten hit on and flirted with really for as long as I can remember. And yes, in a serious way - not as a joke.

And truth be told, I am sort of seeing someone right now. He has made it clear from the start that he is not interested in getting married again, and I know eventually that will be an issue for me, so I guess that's why I've not taken my name off the dating sites. But he has never been ashamed to be seen with me in public - on the contrary, he's always putting his arm around me or holding hands with me when we're out.

I guess that's part of the reason I do have trouble understanding that kind of attitude. If I wasn't going to be particular about who I was with, I wouldn't have any problem finding those who are interested. And I've always gotten the feeling that's true of pretty much any woman. So why do guys think fat chicks must be desparate? Ah well, I guess that's THEIR problem.

Sigh.... and yes, I do realize these problems are prevalent in on-line dating. I can honestly say that almost every guy I've ever gone out with for any length of time was someone I had been friends with first, and who WASN'T interested in dating me in the beginning....until they'd been around me a while and got to know me. A few were even really torn - I wasn't exactly who they pictured themselves attracted to, and when they found they were, they started sending off a lot of VERY confusing signals to me!

But it seems next to impossible to meet people other ways these days. And I have actually met a few guys that were not just looking for sex partners on-line - but I will admit that they are few and far between.

I've just not found any very good ways to meet guys that meet my criteria off-line either. The one good thing is - I've gotten very comfortable being alone again, so I'm not desparate to find someone. I've reconciled myself to the fact that finding someone who would make good marriage material who is interested in me is probably not going to happen soon enough to have kids, and that trying hard to do so would make it even less likely to happen. I've already decided that in a few years, once I feel I have my life under control, bills paid off, etc., I plan to adopt. Once I came to the realization that there were other ways of handling the desire to be a parent, it took the pressure off me, and I am a lot more comfortable. I don't have any problem not answering the 99% of weirdos and jerks that are the ones that answer.

More than anything, I worry about not being able to tell in that 1% that seem decent if they really are decent or not. I mean, as I said, I'm glad this guy was up-front about what he was looking for. Made it a lot easier for me. But I know they aren't always so up-front.

Argh - the more I think about it, the happier I am to just grow old with my cats!

I, too, am a "fat", full-figured...voluptous...etc...etc...woman. I don't attempt to hide it in any of my online dating profiles. One challenge I have found is that it is difficult to know what someone's perception is of a "slim, average, athletic, bbw, voluptous, etc" woman. And, I am often told that my perception of myself is that I'm heavier than what most others perceive. (And no, I'm not one of those people who has only 10 or 15 pounds to lose! I'm heavy!) I have come right out and asked some men why it is that they contacted me when their profile says they're interested in a different body type(s).

I, too, tend to be open and honest. So it is hard to realize how deceitful some people can be. But, I'm getting better and better about screening out the "users". When some guys ask or make blatantly sexual comments in the first contact, I tend not to personalize it. In fact, I often laugh (to myself) about some of the weird comments and requests they make!! ("Do you spank deserving men?"....WHAT??!!!) Of course I don't respond to them, or just say "Not interested".

And yes, sometimes it feels nice to be noticed even if I'm not interested in a person expressing interest. My ego can use a few strokes after being left for a much younger woman with long blonde hair and a decent figure!

Hehehe, at least he is honest about his intentions <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. One of my online dates told me that a guy wrote to her asking if she would be interested in a "purely sexual relationship". Sure, it sounds horrible, but look at it from his perspective - if he sends out 100 e-mails and gets one or two positive responses, he would be a happy guy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. More importantly, he saves himself and his dates the phoniness of pretending to want a meaningful relationship - there is some degree of honesty to that as well.

Clearly this is not what most of us want, but again, you gotta appreciate the guy's honesty. I would have been thrilled if the women I dated in the past had been this honest and told me things right upfront - "I have a boyfriend I forgot to tell you about", "I want a guy with a Bentley", "I am just looking for a meal ticket", etc. Instead of going through weeks of e-mailing and dating before figuring this out.

AGG

A lot of men have difficulty grasping this concept. Even those who get the basic idea tend to have trouble with the implications.

It does get pretty puzzling at times. Even those who clearly seem with it enough to know better tend have trouble with assumptions that don't take the reality of this for women into account. For example, here on the MB boards I've more than once run into a male poster not liking something I said, and come back with some variation along the lines of "oh yeah, well I don't find you attractive, so there!" as though that's some kind of insult or I'm supposed to care or something. When I can find 50 men who find me attractive just by walking out the front door, why on earth would I care what some random stranger on a message board thinks? And yet the couple of times I've tried to find out more from the posters of such comments what they were thinking, they've come back with yes, in their minds I was supposed to be actively hurt if not downright wounded by the idea that they, personally, would not find me attractive.

It's bizarre, but it's pretty common.

We see manifestations on the EN board a lot too. A scenario that seems to come up regularly is where the emotional intimacy in a marriage is currently gone for whatever reason, and the H is mad/offended/frustrated that bald announcements of his wanting sex with his wife not only don't make her rip his clothes off, she seems actively repelled. But in reality, it's natural enough -- if his W only wanted random casual sex instead of sex as an expression of intimacy, why would she bother with a husband? Picking up strangers off the street is a lot less trouble. Being pestered for propositions for sex without intimacy is tiresome enough when it comes from strangers, but when it comes from someone who took an oath to cherish you, the emotional shock is downright painful. Some men dig in their heels pretty hard on resisting dealing with this reality, however, even when their doing so is clearly trashing their own love life.

Wait a minute.....just because I paid for eHarmony I am paying for a sugar daddy???? I don't think so!! I have tried them all...match.com, kiss.com, yahoo personals, american singles, AFF and many more....recently I paid for Harmony as a last ditch effort to find somebody REAL. In reality I probably paid to have my heart broken and let down but that's my own mistake if it happens.

I have a very hard time justifying paying for a dating service. It's just my opinion, of course, but it somehow seems almost as icky as the idea of paying for sex (note that I said 'almost' and that I am not accusing anyone of prostituting themselves - just that it is how the idea makes ME feel).

As Miker's thread subject line says, preparing a profile for an online dating service and subsequently "meeting" the matches one finds very much reminds me of preparing a resume and going on job interviews. The difference for me is that I don't NEED a man in my life in order to put gas in my car, food on my table and a roof over my head like I need a job. But the process seems quite the same. Creatively wording that profile is equivalent to creatively wording that resume. Sound like you are the greatest person since sliced bread - but it doesn't necessarily truly reflect anything about who you are ... your work skills and competence come out fairly quickly once you've taken a job - if you cannot do the work, it's difficult to fake it (at least in most fields) ... but sometimes it takes a very long time for the truth about a new partner's relationship or interpersonal skills to be revealed if they are bad, particularly if the new partner is a user, abusive, or manipulative.

As for the gentleman who experienced the 20 questions (was it CheckUrHeart?) asking about income level, make and model of automobile driven, etc. - Wow. I hope you can see past those cold, calculating and very selfish individuals to the women that are simply looking for a responsible NICE guy who has the capacity to give and receive love. I apologize on behalf of my gender for their behavior!

when I was on Match.com and a select couple others...I never NEVER put my picture out there nor a profile. Yes, I paid my 20 buck to be able to respond to someone I deemed worthy, who struck my interest...then I quite cleverly emailed him about me. Cleverly being the key word. Had that person been sharp, he'd realized that i'd given my general location, kid status, height weight ect ect. Let me tell you ladies that I pick and chose those that I found captivating in their vernacular. If the first response from my inticiation of contact was "show me a picture" they were more than history. If they could correspond in a humorous, intelligent manner from my original email..bonus! Set yourself apart. Anyone can have a profile up on a dating site. I've seen pics from men that were the same on 3 to 4...same verbage and they'd been on that sight for 2 + years. Pick and choose. You can weed the good from the bad just from the vernacular believe me. I met my man there...2.5 years and going strong. Didnt meet for 2 months after emailing. He's a keeper and with of course some baggage...we all come with that. Here's and example..."i've two kids of the four legged persuasion, If I trip I always point my toes. , I work out alot, looking forward to the day when I can bounce a dime off my buns. I didnt lie...I merely used my personality via verbage to engage a suitor...but the suitor was someone I sought out. You control the entire situation with online dating. If your heavy say it...yes, i'm voluptious but dont worry you wont find a peanut butter and jelly sandwich in my folds....be clever, use your humor...have fun for gosh sakes..put yourself out there REAL. you would be surprised.

LOL @ peanut butter and jelly sandwich in my folds.....Can I use that?? That's hysterical!!!

Although I HAVE put my picture out there for the world to view I am like you whereas if they can't grab my attention with their words...they certainly aren't going to be grabbing anything else.

Seems the older I get the more "REAL" I get and the more I know what I want and what I'll compromise on. Age is a beautiful thing!!

Oh age is a beautiful thing AlluringGE's...tis what life is all about. we live we learn. I'm glad I made a gufaw in your guts...tis good and exactly what i'm writing about yes!!!! Be real and be true always. Humor, a beautiful thing in its on right. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />
ruby

crystal singer...your absolutley right in your post. Its all about honesty and revealing ourselves. Yes, we can make our resume look awefully good to a interviewer on paper, in person..on the phone. Yes your right.
"The difference for me is that I don't NEED a man in my life in order to put gas in my car, food on my table and a roof over my head like I need a job" Thats the difference for sure. =) tis a good thing CS..kudos for sure!

AGE, I said most, not all. You've run the gammut of on-line dating sites. One would think that if they were worth the time and effort, especially the time and effort that e|Harmony requires, you'd have found someone buy now.

ruby, when I was doing on-line dating, I was like you. I refused to put up a picture. If someone is so shallow that they MUST have a picture, ignoring all other qualities that may be gleaned from a well written profile, I wasn't interested. I felt this way because I understood that I may find the right lady, but I'd also meet quite a few interesting women, whom of whom would become friends, in the process. I found that my thinking on this was pretty much singular.

You know, I think this topic deserves its own thread!

I must be one of the lucky ones. I tried Match.com, met four women, one of which is my girlfriend for almost two years, another still a good friend, and two just one date with a nice person but no connection. Yes, I got frustrated at a good number of no responses, but I kept my choices limited to women who truly interested me so I didn't send out a lot of emails.

I guess women are more vulnerable through this method, and the friend mentioned above had been doing it a while with little success. But I look at it as yet another avenue for meeting people. Being divorced and being with my child frequently, I don't have time to meet people, nor am I the most outgoing person in the world.

If your expectations are too high, you probably will be disappointed. Keep em low and you might be surprised.

btw I only responded to profiles with pictures. I think a picture can tell a lot - glamour portraits a big turnoff, for example. To my thinking, if you are hiding something, what might other surprises be? And I was up front about onot yet being divorced and having a child I saw often, even though I knew I might have better odds waiting to "get my foot in the door" before elaborating on that.