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[quoteDo you have a WS that is saying "I hate you!" ?
When words don't line up with the behaviors ... something is disconnected. [/quote]
Pep, she only said it once and it was right after the exposure, although in her letter to me she stated that she never felt hatred towards me until now. I guess she is a little upset that I shined a light on her little EA.
Married 10 years, Legally Seperated Aug 2,2006 1 year of Plan A followed by 1 year of Plan B... ...now stepping towards recovery????? BH 37(me), WW 35, DB 7 & DD 5 My Story My struggle with an EA
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ark:
I think we all understand what the WS means when they say $hi+ like "I love you but I'm not in love with you." It's because they believe that love is a feeling(centered below the beltline), rather than a choice (centered between the ears). I have to disagree with you somewhat. I think love is both. Its a feeling and its also a choice. Did you just meet your spouse one day, and absent any feeling decide, "I'm going to love him/her?" No, it doesn't work that way. Maybe it's as simple as we don't make that choice without the feeling, but I don't think you can have true love without feeling nor without the choice to act in a loving way. It takes both.
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Ws to OP.... I'm in love with you, but I don't love you." would actually be perfect... here's a part of this puzzle I can't get my head around.... I mean I 'get' the compartmenalization of the brain... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> I do get that..... but how do you apply lovey feelings for a WS when their ACTIONS are so terroristic to other people.... how does a person do that... in other words...how do you get the hots for Hitler... that I don't think I can understand.... ARK
Last edited by ark^^; 09/01/05 09:50 AM.
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Ark, you KNOW I loved Squid when she was being a spitting harpie to me and our kids.
I can;t explain in secular terms. I mean it wasn;t Stockhold syndrome or anything. I couldn't hate her.
When I look at my journals then i genuinely treated her like she had a temporary mental illness....
Compassion, distance but care.
I dont under stand the reverse : when WS say they love their spouse but abuse them knowingly and deliberately in the most humiliating way.
I cant explicate that mess. Can't even try.
MB Alumni
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"Tell the truth did you see WAT through your scope..."
Not sure, really. I saw a perfect airy disk with a couple diffraction rings around it, and interpreted that as a glint off his chrome...
I coulda been mistaken though...
-ol' 2long
(and I'm tellin' ya. If THAT doesn't get him 2 post, nothing will!)
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Bob:
"I dont under stand the reverse : when WS say they love their spouse but abuse them knowingly and deliberately in the most humiliating way."
I can't explain it either, but I know it firsthand (as do most on here). I only realized this fully, though, yes2rday, when my W started showing genuine signs of the fog clearing.
It's thick, though.
-ol' 2long
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but how do you apply lovey feelings for a WS when their ACTIONS are so terroristic to other people....
how does a person do that...
in other words...how do you get the hots for Hitler... Ark...I'll take a stab at this... This was something I struggled with SO MUCH while my husband was having his affair. What I discovered about myself was a mixed bag (no, i'm not a bag!). (I know, I don't do humour well, thats why I am so darn serious). I discovered that love is a choice. Because I choose to love my husband, even when he wasn't very lovable...I did maintain feelings of love. BUT I also found that he met emotional needs for me, without actually intentionally doing anything. I find him physically attractive. Always have. He's always held down a good job. His sense of humor makes me laugh even when I am exhausted, tired and cranky.... True, the lovebank was emptying faster than it was filling...but the emptying part was definitely slowed down... And then...to make things even more complicated. I had a huge amount of emotional selfworth and addiction to drama attached to him. Drama made me feel alive. Interaction with him was Drama. Drama filled interaction = BR fix. I found it very very helpful to sort out in my mind, the difference between healthy love, and sick emotional addiction. And once I had done that, I found out that my emotional needs were a bit different than I had originally thought. I suspect that in a perfect, healthy world, you cant have the hots for hitler. But we people are messy and I think there are more than a few reasons why we feel love feelings. Bottom line though, comes down to choice. for the same reason that a WS is hard to fill ENs...because you can do eveyrthing right, but the WS chooses to not allow a deposit. I think the reverse is true also. When we choose to love, we choose to allow our love banks to be filled.
~ Pain is a given, misery is optional ~
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I miss WAT. Is he okay?
Sorry, off the general topic. Love is not my favorite subject right now, but this thread is very interesting reading.
Me 40, STBXWH 43
Married 16 years
D-day 01/25/05
Son 14, Daughter 10
Divorce almost final - I hope!
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Love is not my favorite subject right now, but this thread is very interesting reading. Hi guys (and girls <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />), I'll second Pebbles on this. Yesterday my STBXRWH told me once more he still loves me and still wants to have another go at "us".. if I want him back, he'll drop all his GF's.. hahah.. what a wonderful offer <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />. I think love works "between the ears" when it comes to honoring, respecting, caring.. All the things you do FOR someone else, not for yourself. And love is also something that comes back to you when your EN's are being met. I could still choose to love my WH.. choose to rebuild our relationship.. even when he was in withdrawl. I could live with a nearly empty love bank. Until he went to P's again, lied again about chatting to other women and even meeting them. But even then, when I had decided to get out of this M, I noticed I felt more love towards him when he occasionnaly met an EN of mine. But as you all guessed, the words "P's again" and "lied" and "other women" and "occassionnally" make it impossible for me to do more than simply notice how this meeting of EN's and feeling love thing works. When you love somebody, you'll work hard to meet their EN's. Not to "keep" them, or "make" them love you, but to see their happiness. I even do that for my dog and cat <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. I'll be darned if I'll ever choose another H who doesn't profoundly understand this. Er.. enough rambling.. I'm off to work while you guys in America are still asleep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />. Have a good day all !
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.....as Miss Tina would say... What's love got to do, got to do with it
What's love but a second hand emotion
What's love got to do, got to do with it
Who needs a heart when a heart can be broken..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> In the A land, the word love is the most misused word. It is taken out of context and used to replace words like selfish, greedy, anger, frustration, addictive, hideous, demented and all other vile forms associated with the A. Love, it is a catch all word meant to hurt more than help. It is the stabbing tool of choice as taught by the infamous WSU school of A-hole learning. Otherwise known as the fog. It comes from a place where words mean just the opposite. Hate and love are used interchangably at any given moment. Where confusion reigns on in the control of the WS and OP on the backs of the BS and family. True love? Doesn't exist in an A. It can't. It won't and it doesn't. The TOW board would just be in fits after reading this one. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> IMHO, L.
Last edited by Orchid; 08/05/05 03:10 AM.
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What is love ?
WHY is love?
Ever thought about that?
I could go CRAZY meditating on that.
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Orchid: To quote from Paul's writings: 'Love is long-suffering and kind. Love is not jealous, it does not brag, does not get puffed up, does not behave indecently, does not look for its own interests, does not become provoked. It does not keep account of the injury. It does not rejoice over unrighteousness but rejocies with the truth. It bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things. Love never fails.' Pretty good description eh? Where does a WS version of love fit into those wise and holy words? Orchid: Because as another wise man said: 'The love is in this respect, not that we have loved God but that he loved us and sent forth his Son.....' Notice the 'act' of love. It is a gift not given to all creatures. We question what we s/b cherishing. We get hurt when we see it misused and not appreciated. We are never the 1st to give love. All the love we give is because love was shown to us. Even among the best of the best here on earth. Whether you believe in a God or not, it is logical. It is real. It does make sense. Orchid: Oh yea.....many times. The same answers keep coming up and they are the ones that kept me sane. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I could go CRAZY meditating on that. Orchid: All the more reason to pray for that clear mind. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> take care, L.
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I think love "happens" when the mind shuts up and listens to the heart.
In an A, the lower regions and selfish needs make the mind and the heart shut up.. so guess what's left.. bowel area rubbish. The heart would never willingly hurt another person (the BS) and the mind could never justify it either.
So a gigantic self-justifying fog machine needs to be installed and kept working all the time so that neither heart or mind can get through.
I would suggest heart + mind = conscience.
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How did so many wise people end up in the same place ???
The more y'all write and counsel, the more I learn and grow. Seriously, I would be bashing my head against the wall, had I not come here - Now y'all are !!!! (lol, you know what I mean)
Seriously here - I guess I still don't get it. But, at least as Lemon says, I do get it that I don't get it. A start anyway.
See, when talking about love - REAL love, the love I have for my grandson (4 yo) is unconditional. Not the love I felt, feel for my own children, Not the love (don't worry, I won't go there now) for my WH - But REAL love in the bottom of my heart. His smile brings me such joy. His tears his crying - he can do no wrong in my eyes. It is unconditional.
What is that ??? Is a love in a marriage suppose to be TWO people acting and feeling like a grandmother ??? I guess that would be a pretty darn good marriage. Is that it ?? I would never do anything to hurt my gs. Nothing. Am I making any sense here ?
Do we have to love ourselves before we can love any one else ? And, saying that - I don't understand it totally either.
Carnation
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Last weekend, Mr. Pep, Miss 16-year-old Mini-Pep, and myself Da'Pep ... went to the moooovies (dragging Miss Pep who wanted to stay home ~alone~ with her boyfriend ... 'I think not')
anywho~
We saw that kewl movie March Of The Penguins
Sometimes 'love' is hard to define ... but dayum! when you see penguins showing love .... you realize that 'love' is like art ..... you recognize it when you see it.
this is, quite possibly, the dumbest thing I have ever posted (well, maybe the simulated 911 call deleted from yesterday was a smidge dumber)
please forgive me ... I am awake way too early
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Me 35
STBX 39
Dear son 9
Married...15 years (Jan. 20, 1990)
D-Day July 20, 2004.
Divorcing!
What goes around comes around
Sometimes we have to hold our head high, blink back the tears and say GOOD-BYE
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Here'z a little bit dear ThreeReich
((((((((((((ThreeReich))))))))))))))
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brownhair...Thank you! :-) I need some love!
I'm feeling a bit lonely today. My son is going to be with his dad this weekend and I just hate it!
I'm trying to plan some things to do with friends to keep busy.
It breaks my heart to think that I haven't been loved in so long. :-(
Me 35
STBX 39
Dear son 9
Married...15 years (Jan. 20, 1990)
D-Day July 20, 2004.
Divorcing!
What goes around comes around
Sometimes we have to hold our head high, blink back the tears and say GOOD-BYE
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But you are loved !! After the rejection of being a BS.. of a D.. I also have to remind myself that I am loved by so many people (and animals <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) - that the actions of one foggy selfish idiot don't make me unloveable. Or you !!
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I think there are different kinds of love.
The love we feel for a child.
The love we feel for a parent.
The love we feel for a pet.
The love some feel for god.
Love is both a verb and a emotional state. I can act in a loving fashion even if I despise the one I am doing the loving things for. I can behave compassionately even to an enemy. If one viewed my actions they would certainly conclude I loved this person when the reality is quite different. . . this is why I think love is much more than a verb.
I believe that the "highest" (bad word, but I am at a loss to find a better one right now) form of love, or rather you truly love someone when you don't want anything from them. Your love isn't conditional on someone else's behavior. I think this is more often felt for a child (or like what carnation expressed for her grandchild). I don't think that many could have this love for a spouse. I know that I sure couldn't. My love for my wife, or should I say the feeling part of the love I feel for my spouse, is certainly dependant on her behavior towards me. So under my definition, I guess I really don't love her. Now I've just muddled my impish-brain.
Last edited by Comfortably Numb; 08/05/05 09:14 AM.
What we think or what we know or what we believe is, in the end, of little consequence. The only consequence is what we do. ~ John Ruskin
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