Hi all,

I need some advice really. Have been divorced now for over two years and been apart for over three. My marriage disintegrated when it hit double figures because of my X's Child Abuse problems. She imploded in a very short space of time and just like a rollercoaster we were apart, her in a PA's eventually appearing to settle with one of the OM's, and me advised to divorce to protect myself and my kids and financial aspects. Divorce took 5 months start to finish. That was 3 years ago.

My issue is that I am no further forward. I haven't moved on one day.

I still struggle daily with loving my X as I always did living in what at times feels like a surreal existance. Everything shot by so fast it's like a dream. When I see her (which is often as I have custody of the children) it tears me up inside with feelings of both desire and utter debilitating sadness.

I've tried to date both on the rebound and as a way to get her off my mind all to no avail (I know how bad that sounds). Worst of all I got into a relationship that seemed to go so fast that it took all my courage to call it a day - I'd even felt it right to get engaged so messed up was I. The reality though was that I felt that I needed to get X out of my skin that I should have "moved on by now" as everyone, friends and family, kept saying. Yet the relationship ended because deep down I knew it was not right and it was all a shame (which makes me feel so bad).

I'd like to get some feedback just how did you get on? What things if any could you do to move on? To me "Move On" doesn't really mean anything and in truth I don't even know if that's what I want. How long did it take? As for me it's not clearly been anywhere near long enough and I guess that I haven't spent anytime alone either other than the odd few months here and there as I have stumbled from one relationship to the next.

I have decided to stop doing that now and not get involved with anyone. I love my X and that isn't going away. I'm wise enough to know that feeling that is going to destroy any relationship I might have. I'm doing the things for me that I can - I have a great job, great kids (that's very hard being a single Dad to 3 daughters) and I look after myself so I'm pushing the me stuff. I've been to councelling and therapy, taken Anti-D's and talked with my Doc. All have helped to some small degree with regards coping but none to help get through this situation.

Grateful for your thoughts? and if some of those who helped me alot before are still here (TooMuchCoffee, Just Learning, Twyla, Orchid et al.) would be great to get your 2 cents.

Frankly right now if she knocked on the door I would have her straight back in my life.

Regards T.

How about individual counseling for you to help you understand your feelings.
Being a full time dad to 3 girls must take up alot of your energy and you likely don't have time to yourself, but you need to focus on what you need to heal. Everyone is different. But there are many great books out there to help, and many great people.
Take Care.

Hi - I don't know what to say other than I understand... see the difference between you and I is that I haven't dated... Somedays I think it would be easier to have him back in my life - though realistically I know I would never allow that to happen...But still I haven't moved on yet either... try as I might or want to -- I just cannot seem to do it.... I have basically just been raising my two daughters - working and keeping a roof over their heads - and you know - I have come to the realization that - really that is ok for now... I am at some sort of peace.... I think only we can decide to let go and if you find out let me know.. I will be interested to hear what other people have to say....

Wow, this is the second time today I've had to say this. You need to get back into therapy immediately. If your previous therapist didn't help, try another one. Rarely does one find the psychotherapist who is a good fit on the first try. Also, one therapist can take you so far and then will often refer you to another who is more qualified to deal with specific issues.

If you're three years out and haven't made any progress at all, what you need is way beyond the scope of this forum. You need professional assistance to get you back on track. Folks here can tell you what they've done and offer support, but your problem is way beyond that. You need to find out why you can't allow yourself to move on. Only you know the answer to this.

As to your last sentence, I would venture a guess that you know that would be a horrible mistake.

Thanks Newly, I have done this three times over including therapy with Psychotherapists specifically trained and accredited for helping Child Abuse Victims and their partners (me).

To a certain extent I feel counselled out <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/shocked.gif" alt="" /> there's also the secondary issues of $$cost and time availability.

OK, then find a way to help yourself, and this doesn't mean dating.

You have 3 girls in your household. You are modeling behavior for them. So what are you teaching them about relationships & dating by your own behavior. I want to raise emotionally healthy kids and I make life choices based on that.

You are stuck, so change something.

Moving on is not something you do. It's something that happens to you while you're living your life.

So, why don't you think about doing stuff you like to do and not worrying about relationships?

I'd also suggest you two work out a way to switch the kids around so that you don't have to see her or talk to her. No contact is the rule when trying to get over someone. It applies to OP, WS, and X's.

You talk of councelling. I'm talking about therapy and not with someone specialized in a problem you no longer have - to wit your wife's child abuse issues. Councellors councel, that is all they do. Most of them in my experience are touchy-feely and do little more than parrot whatever they've recently read in the latest self-help book. Therapy is hard work. If it isn't hard, it isn't working.

I don't think you fully understand what a serious problem you are describing here. You are obsessional about this. When one is obsessive they don't make good choices about anything. Your wife is gone, been gone for three years and she is never coming back. You say "Frankly right now if she knocked on the door I would have her straight back in my life." My W's only been gone two years. We have occasional amicable contact and a part of me still loves her. But she will never get back into my life anymore than she currently is. She could have stopped it all at any time before she left and I have welcomed her back with open arms. She may even have been able to change her mind up to three months after she left. But after that, for my own well being, I had to shut that door. She can never come back now. Until you start thinking this way, your going to continue to be stuck.

Thanks Maw. You were going through your D and I am familiar with your postings here. I know now that dating was very much a mistake, but I got caught up in the whole didn't want to be alone or left mindset. Even now I find that I have to conciously decide not to date, almost like I'm on rocky ground for NOT trying to find someone. All the while finding it hard to not think about my X.

Thanks but I am talking about Therapy here not counselling. Indeed both of the Therapists I worked with indicated that time was the issue and didn't subscribe to ongoing therapy that was a) very costly and b) just going over the same things.


I am not obssessing - you are reading that and putting those words down. I am asking for opinions and feedback as to how others have moved on, what length of time did it take etc etc. I am happy in my own life doing a lot like Maw64 taking care of my daughters and doing the best I can in my home and job. What I am struggling with is not moving on from a loving relationship that fell apart. It may be because I haven't spent anywhere near enough time alone as I stated I've been in one rebound relationship or another since the D.


Yes that is a correct description of how I feel and almost certainly would act.


Thank you, as you described in this last part this was all YOUR choice. I haven't got there yet, for me my 3 years hasn't gotten me anywhere near your 2. Also occasional contact is impossible as we have 3 children together. If we didn't then contact would be zero heck I could just move far far away.

The whole point of my asking was I was looking for help as to what others have done and how long it took that might help me stop wrestling with this on my own! Regards T.

You are right Newly, I am acutely aware that this is not the way to teach them. I have discussed with them the problems that I have over the breakup and that I can't date or be in a relationship until I feel that I am ready.

Thanks, I feel quite beat up in this thread but this the kinda feedback I was looking for. It speaks to me that despite being 3 years down the road that this isn't anywhere near long enough probably in part because of how I have been living my life (trying to date etc).

This is what I have recently (but only in the last 4 months) been conciously trying to do. As stated above just "living" with children and work and commuting takes nearly 100% of my time. I'm now doing just a few personal things that I enjoy.

I understand this and know why it is required. For the most part I manage to pick up/drop off the children without contact but there's a lot of children logistics that have been needed to be resolved like Operations, sickness, school etc.

Tiberon,

I think you have been given some very good advice, but let's take a look at this from another angle. Permit to trivialize your marriage just a bit and your attachment to your W by calling it a habit or addiction. If we are to look at your feelings for her in this fashion, then you can see that there is no reason to feel that your current feelings about this are wrong or not timely. Why?

Well addictions are about changing brain chemicals and it is known that these same changes occur when people have affairs. Hence you will read about withdrawal and 'the fog' here. Further, it is known that one does not really break habits as much as one often substitutes one habit/behavior for another.

So let's step back even further and ask "What do you miss?" The sex?
The closeness?
Being a family?
The support?
The affection?

What is it you miss most and what is second on your list?
You see your W is personifying what you miss so you focus on her. If you were to focus on what you are really missing, you will see that you are missing the things she provided to you when you first met her. She is sort of an icon for what you miss so you focus on HER.

Now if another woman came into your life and she loved you, took care of you, and met your emotional needs you would find that you would not miss your icon that much.

But, like any addiction there is always some level of craving, which is why Harley is so adament about no contact. Years later many people can be around their affair partner but there is a significant number that cannot withstand the craving and one doesn't know who that would be, so he counsels to stay away.

I would like to hear your thoughts on this, but meanwhile consider what the others have said within the context of what I have said. Minimize contact will help your addiction and cravings, finding out and focusing on what you miss will help you focus on your needs. Living your life well, being a great Dad and a good employee will begin to offer to you some of the admiration you crave from a W, and it will also do something else...it will make you more attractive to a wider range of women.

Until there is another woman in your life, I think you will be acutely aware of your cravings for what your Icon(W) represents. Until you can find other ways to have some of your needs met (and that requires you identify them) you will really miss what your W provided. And as contact with your W reduces you will not suffer as much with regard to the withdrawals you feel when you see her.

Tiberon, I think you will always love the woman you married. Unfortunately the woman you married does not exist any longer, so you have to address the holes she has left in your life and the changes she made in your brain. IT is not easy, but you can do it IF you decide to.

God Bless,

JL

Hi T.

I'll give my 2 cents on moving on. Moving on is not about that you forget who you were married to, but it's accepting it's over, let it die the death. Some people do "standing" for there marriage after dv but even in that you still have to move on. I went through the sudden surprise, d-day late 2000 (several).

I felt I could somehow help save her from herself. It took me a while to realize she had made plans and meditated the whole dv thing, she had detached herself years prior like 1998 and while I was suddenly taken by surprise she was 2 years ahead of me in plans. I did the beg and cry thing for 1 year as she and OM laughed there heads off.

So how does one move on without having to get in a relationship with someone in romanance? Many here have there own ways but I believe that part of healing is knowing the love God has for you.

I'm well aware of that aching, longing feeling of "Oh how I wish she were back in my arms". As time went on God had to dry the bleeding wound. Moving on is moving on with the flow of life with purpose and making everyday a new day of opportunity, meaning, it sounds like your whole life was wrap up around her and your kids and you lost yourself in the process. You now need to find yourself without her. What does your life stand for? Who are you without her? What is it that you feel like she holds that you don't have in yourself?

I finally had come to realize, as hard as it was, that you can't make, coherce or convince someone to love you, they have to fall in love with you based on the gift they see they are getting. If the person doesn't value you, why seek them? As time went on, I had to ask myself this hard question as I yearned and longed for her after dv in 2002. Do I miss her or do I have a co-dependency for her, fearful of facing my insecurity? I had to ask myself, why am I longing for someone who just threw me to curb, rejected me so bad. It was the same as when a woman gets beat by a man and then stays or goes back. Why come I couldn't move on, even as hard as I tried? One of my hangups was refusing to accept failure, feeling like I could have done more. A false guilt. Feeling I could fix her and make it all better.

So my opinion of moving on is finding that vein of JOY of life which causes new life to flow in you to flow through that changes your environment around you that attracts the kind of people who can empower you to step into the new life before you.

I stayed in the pigpen making mud cakes for years, hoping she come back in my pigpen (my place of despair). When you decide enough is enough, I can't live this way anymore then you will seek ways of change that make you feel better. You have to pursue it, it will not just happen, otherwise you'll stare at the walls all the time saying how could this happen to me. Joy will come and great new things will emerge if you seek them that's part of Moving On!

Do I think about her? yes, Do I want her back, no. We're in two different aspects of life now. She's not the type of person I would go looking for. Once you break into new life you'll see what I'm talking about.


Hope this helps.

Tiberon, I'm not trying to beat up on you, but you most assuredly are obsessional about your ex-wife. It's classic, almost textbook. Three years after the fact, you are no farther along in getting on with your life than you were the day she left and you say you'd take her back today. This is by definition obsessional thinking. Until you stop doing this, you cannot move on.

Obsessing over a loss is normal. Right after my W left, she was all I could think about. Now, I still think about her, usually every day, but it's completely dfferent, only passing thoughts that don't carry much emotional charge anymore. I think about her less and less, but still wonder if I'm not as far along as I should be. Your therapist said this is a time issue. That's correct as a first approximation, but unless you and your W were married for 30 years or something, you should be pretty much over your divorce by now. Time is not the only factor.

Hey JL, long time no talk <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />I miss the affection from her the most, followed then by the closeness, being a support, the sex and then the support. I also miss her lively personality and her love.

I understand and want ot believe this yet haven't been able to sustain a relationship because of these issues. Perhaps even to the point of sabotaging them.

Craving is a good way of wording it at the moment. I fully understand the No Contact and I'm trying to keep it minimal. Ultimately though we had three daughters together and of course unusually I have custody (being the man). They are not old enough to look after themselves yet. I am doing the "drop them off down the road", "dont get out the car", "talk only about kids logistics" etc. I did check this with Steve Harley and it was all we could agree as being sensible. Remember that my breakup was about abuse, that whilst there were A's that was nothing compared to the bloodshed, cutting, suicide attempts etc.

So with that in mind are you thinking I should be "dating" that seems contra to what I am feeling myself.

Again are you suggesting that I date? I am not sure I can meet all the needs she gave just by myself. I'd as you read above took the view that I wasn't ready to date yet.

Best wishes T.

I understand what you are saying but you are making it sound much more "obsessional" than I mean it to come across. These are very real feelings from being married 13 years and together 15. Not quite the 30 you quote but also a breakup that wasn't like yours at all. You've made a sweeping generalisation that I should be "over the divorce by now" - one that many here would disagree with.

You say you think about your X usually every day, same here, my thoughts are more emotionally charged because I know that my X was very ill during our breakup as opposed to being in "the fog" - and I had this confirmed by Steve Harley, whilst I followed a good Plan A, it was largely not going to work because as he said "your wife is too ill to respond to this kind of therapy". Now as time has gone on she has got better and so I am still in this frame on mind that was hopeful or craving as JL put it.

I've decided to keep on with my life, being the best dad and employee I can and not worrying about the relationship side or my X for that matter as best I can.

Perhaps it would be better if I rephrased my question to post divorce how long did you spend alone getting back a semblance of normality and allowing yourself to just be?

Tiberon,

Ok let's go through this abit. You said
Excellent. Now think about this, you have three daughters, they are NOT your W right. I am not suggesting they be your W. What I am suggesting is that you open your heart to what your daughters are and do offer you. They offer you love, accept it, enjoy it, savor it. They over you three growing, thriving, happy personalities, and as they get older there will be more...trust me on that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Savor it, relish it, and thank God for it. You have been blessed Tiberon.

As for the SF and affection, well you are on your own there. But, your daughters are going to lean on you more and more, enjoy that as well.

You said
Why? is it fear? Is it lack of confidence? You know most women are better than your exW and would treat you better as well. I am not disparaging your W so much as pointing out you are divorced for a reason. You have the children for a reason and those reasons don't reside in most women. You have been offered some good advice to follow think about that.

Tiberon: You don't "get over" a love, you outgrow it. You need to start to look at things a bit differently. YOu need to look at the positives in your life and in the people you meet and you will "outgrow" your W. You cannot change her.

You said
So you feel sorry for you exW right? You feel somehow you could have, should have been able to save her from herself right? You feel that somehow her being back in your life would be good for you and your children right? So what does the data say.

First, she is NOT good for the children and you, and even the very baised courts felt that way. So you are deluding yourself if you think differently.

Second, you could not save her from herself and you never will be able to do that, only good counseling and major life changes on her part can do that. Apparently that has not happened.

Look at this realistically, and you will see you are where you are supposed to be, not where you want to be. Accept this reality. I am NOT trying to end your love of your exW, I am pointing out that as Tina Turner says: "What has love go to do with it?" A marriage is more than love and it requires to healthy, focused, dedicated people to make it work. You exW could not do this no matter how much she may have wanted to. Love the woman, but love your kids and yourself more. It is the right thing to do.


Nope, I meant that you will begin to encounter more and more women if your live your life as we discussed. Some will become your friends, and a few may be worth dating, and of those there are some that will suit you well and meet your needs. I am not say start dating like a rabbit. I am saying be open to females in your life, not for dating but for friendship and then...perhaps dating.

You have children, you work, you may attend a place of worship, you may have hobbies, in short you do have a life and it will bring you into contact with women. Enjoy the contact, make friends, and then see.

Dating in and of itself is not very productive. It is sort of like fishing with a bare hook. You may catch something but it will be an accident and probably a mistake. You need to learn to be friends first.

I said and you asked
No I am saying until you find someone you WANT to date or is significant in your life, your craving for what your W represents will be there. Accept that as normal but a bit of a fantasy sort of like craving to win the lottery.


No you cannot. But you can get more of them met than you think. That is the point. There is a reason people marry and there is a reason they take vows...marriage offers something truely unique to each person, something they cannot get outside of marriage, although some look there. I know that, and you know that so accept it for what it is. But, some of the things you miss or wish you had are around you in the form of other souls in your life: your children, your friends at work, your friends outside of work. I suggest you do NOT need more children <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />, but you can always use more friends. Step up and meet more people and do your best to be a good friend to those you feel worthy of your efforts.


That decision is up to you. But, I do think it is a process, friends, then dating. That means you become active in something, church, a hobby, your kids activities, some or all of the above or perhaps something else. What all this is saying in a nutshell is develop a life for yourself that brings you joy, and you will attract friends and with that you will KNOW who you want to date.

Dating is not a repudiation of your exW either or what your marriage may have once been. It is the future.

Please think about it. Talk to a counselor about it. You don't need to "move on" so much as you need to live your life in the reality of your situation. The "moving on" will take care of itself. Frankly what we are talking about is the "baggage" often mentioned on this site. You have a lot of it yet, and gradually you need to set some of it down. Dating does not help you set it down, it is what happens as you set things down. Does that make sense?



God Bless,

JL

I didn't mean to generalize, Tiberon. Perhaps I should have been more precise. Being over a 15 year relationship in three years is perhaps not a realistic goal, but man, you have to admit, you should be much farther along than you are. And I believe most people here would agree with that. You have wrtten so many things here that indicate that you are still married in your heart. I can sure understand that feeling. But, Tibolt, you aren't married anymore, and I think you are beginning to feel uncomfortable with this contradiction.

How do you presume to know what the break up my marriage was like and why do you think that a comparison needs to be drawn? I loved my wife with all my heart and was betrayed. I have written that it was my second marriage. My first marriage lasted 14 years and we never had any serious problems to deal with until we were married nearly 12 years. That marriage fell apart in the span of a couple of months and I was powerless to stop it. Was I completely over that marriage after three years? Yes, actually, I was. I wasn't heading that way to begin with, though. I was like you are now. Living in the past and hoping for something miraculous. One day I noticed that I was stuck. So I made a concious choice to mourn the loss and move on. I called it "crawling into my cave." I deliberately shut myself off from the world (except for work) and allowed myself to go through the grieving process. I guess I was in my cave for about three months. This time around, I went straight into my cave and have made much better progress, since I didn't have to unbury my feelings from all the cruff that had accumulated.

This would be tougher for you, since you have little ones to look after and they don't need dad crawling into a cave. But maybe you could adapt it so that you do get some time (long weekends, etc) to be completely alone and work through your grief so you can let it go.

Thanks JL yes it does make a heck of a lot of sense and certainly provides a level of focus to stick to.

As for sustaining relationships I've not been able to let go of the past so have taken that into the present. I've also had girlfriends exhibit the traits of the X which has been problematic... all too easy to immediately tarnish with the same brush. I haven't got to the place yet where I feel that the relationships have been of value to me, ie that I am getting something worthwhile from them. My therapist said I need to spend more time asking "what am I getting from the relationship" as opposed to just giving all the time.