I do agree and that is what I'm trying to get to. I think what has happened akin to what you have said is that I haven't had time to grieve per se. I have gone into rebound dating for the better part of two years. I haven't been alone those 3 years. I have had to deal with the emotional trauma of not just A's but all the other brutal stuff like self-harm, rape, the list goes on. If I wrote it all down (as I have done here before) you wouldn't believe me. So as I am thinking and what others are saying is that I am in a sort of bad place but in truth it's where I am. When I do have moments of realisation and clarity I say to myself "where did you expect to be along this path?" Yes it might have been farther but it's not. I can accept that. The few others who have responded have also helped in saying that they are several years out still have similar issues which says to me that I'm not alone, and that is a huge comfort in itself.

Lol who he?

I do not presume anything. Its clear the pain you had. Your first post was that I needed Therapy for Obsessions. You spoke with such clarity I assumed that you may have experienced similar to comment thus on me. You made the comparison by saying that you were 2 years over and OK therefore I should be the same. This isn't the case. I also counselled with Steve Harley and followed what he said to me as best I could, whereas you didn't take that approach so no comparison is relevant. Our situations are chalk and cheese.

Crawling into a cave isn't something one with Kids can do. What I can do is focus on the things that JL said and makes a lot of sense. I can also take solace in the knowledge that where I am in all aspects of my life is pretty good with this being the only bugbear. The feedback is clear that it takes time and individual time at that - something I freely admit I haven't done well and will do now.

Regards T.

Tiberon - I understand really I do... It is like sometimes you just wish you could wake up and have it all have been a bad dream and well your life was the way it was before.... It is hard - like I said I havent' figured it out.. I was with my ex for 18 years - married for 15 years - never once in that time did I ever think of another man .. now bam I should be out there dating and having a great single life.. Though part of my heart is still married...and I don't know how to think single.. though my ex had no problem thinking that way when we were married.. He is happily along in his single life and I am still struggling trying to figure out what about me.... I know that I deserve much more than someone who cheated and betrayed me - and like I said I would never take him back - though a part of me wishes sometimes that I just could and everything would be fine... It is hard greiving a marriage that is over - when in fact you are not sure what ever happened to it in the first place.... and I don't think anyone can tell you what you are doing is wrong or right - I tell alot of my friends - don't you wish that I could just wake up tomorrow and be over everything completely I would - I know that I am only hurting myself - but I know that I am not going to turn into a lonely bitter woman - I guess my time frame with dealing with it all is a little longer than most... I mean I have friends that are married - they break up one day and then a week later have a boyfriend and I am like how did they do that??? I don't know - hopefully one day we will just accept it all and finally move forward... and into happiness....

T-

Frankly I don't think that 3 years is all that long to still be very much in the grieving phase. Our society seems to assume that we can get over loss very quickly, and just "move on". For many, that is just not true.

I am 3 years past the start of all of this for me. Mostly I am happy, and my life is good. But I still have lots of feelings of loss - not for WH, but for what could have been, of my hopes and dreams.

Personally, I think men do not do as well as women do alone. I think you should continue doing things with women. Working and raising 3 girls can't be easy. Maybe you can look into joining a bowling league, some kind of sports thing that is co-ed, or joining Parents without Partners.

At first you can look for someone just to hang out with and spend time with. Don't look for a "replacement" for your wife. You won't be able to replace her. And there is nothing wrong with that. Too many people in this day think that people ARE replaceable.

TooMuchCoffeeMan would be grateful to know where you are in your sitch now as I know you had similar issues with your Ex and Kids.

I don't know either Maw. I think like your last paragraph says that one day we accept as CheckUrHeart said as he did it happens. JL's point about living life rather than moving on was very apt.

Thanks Believer, I think I delved into dating because of a belief that I could move on and X was replaceable. Now I know that I was just making a mistake!

Sorry Tiberon. I've also written posts to Tibolt and got twisted on names. By the way are you German by any chance? I note that you often capitalize nouns.

Yeah, as I said, you can't crawl into a cave, but you can modify the idea and maybe come up with something that works for you.

BTW, I get the imression that when I suggest that you are being obsessional that I am stigmatizing it. Believe me, I'm not.

I do have similar experience, but not with anyone like your exwife (that had to have been a nightmare for you!). After my first D, I listened to all my friends and got back out there. I couldn't be still. I dated some, even got involved with a woman and had a very bad relationship experience. I also noticed that as time passed, I was getting sicker and sicker Depression, anxiety, drinking too much, and obessive thinking about my lost marriage. That's when I decided to do my cave thing and be quiet and still. No going out (occasionally dinner with a friend), no sex, no parties, nothing. Only when I did that did I realize I had never grieved the loss of my marriage; I'd only been running from it.

But you know what, Tiberon, I believe that now that you are bringing this out into the light of day, you are going to start feeling better soon. You're going to be just fine. You're a smart fellow and you know you can get through this.

T -

One thing I can suggest, which I seldomly do to men here, is joining a recovery support group. Many church groups have them, and they are full of women. It might be very good for you to get some support and help from women. You can learn to relate to them as friends.

I was in one grief support group where we had only 1 man. His wife had been hit by a train and killed, leaving him with 3 kids. Believe me, we took good care of him. And his insight was invaluable to us.

I'm still in contact with him, and he has moved on and remarried, and is finally happy again, but it took almost 5 years.

Tib,

I really like the advice Check and Believer have been giving you. Especially like the support group idea because I do think you need to learn to be friends again before dating. Believer touched on something else that really touched an interesting button for me.

I learned many years ago, that when running an organization that you cannot replace someone that leaves. Now let me explain this and I think you will understand it. If we are talking about a job where one is doing something by rote such as an assembly line, filling out paper work, etc. yes you can replace them.

But, if the job required a level of personal involvement, I do research so in my case we are talking about researchers, you can NEVER replace someone. Why because if they were any good at all, they made the job their own. The began to change it to suit their strengths and weaknesses.

So many decades ago, I learned NEVER to look for a replacement but rather hire someone really good and let them define the job. It has worked very well for me. And I think that thought will work for you.

No one can replace your exW, she is the mother of your children, someone you loved deeply, and someone who loved you deeply at one point. In fact, your own ExW could not replace the memories you have of her in a better time. So when and if you return to friendships and even dating of woman, don't compare them to your W. These ladies are just as unique as your W, but comparing them does both of them and certainly you an injustice.

You see, as this discussion continues it is becoming clear that we are not telling to forget your exW. No! far from it. In fact embrace your memories of her, but put them where they belong...in the memory section. What you need to start doing is seeing people around you as they are TODAY, and respond accordingly.

Believer, is right you cannot replace her or your feelings for her. What you can do is enjoy your life and hopefully you will find someone that brings excitement, joy, and satisfaction to your life IN THEIR OWN WAY. That is the key here, realizing there is more than one person on this planet that can make your life complete and they will do that in their own way.

I also think the comments about mourning are also correct. The time scale is indeterminate, but we all know that for you to be healthy as a man, a father, and hopefully as a companion that you will get through the mourning and start to continue on with your life.

Hope this helps.

God Bless,

JL

no am in the UK so we always capitalise nouns !

This has been very helpful it's exactly how I see myself at the moment.

Thanks JL and Believer it's been a build help. I am looking at recreational stuff in my area to have a go at and go from there. Watch this space. Best Wishes T.

I like the support group idea, too. But a real one. Avoid the on-line ones (there are many on Yahoo Groups) like a disease. This one is moderated, those others generally aren't and they are poison for the soul. If possible find a men only support group moderated by a trained councelor/therapist or at least in group dynamics. I suggest this because in mixed-sex groups, people tend not to be as open and honest about their feelings. For example, a man may need to unload some frustration and anger at women in general - I mean really let go and let the fairer sex have it between the eyes. He isn't going to be able to do that in a room half filled with hurt and angry women (unless he really doesn't think he's going to need those gonads any longer). Women need the same freedom. It also give men an opportunity to bond in a way that's a bit deeper than watching a ball game together or drooling over a hamburger at Hooters. It can be very instructional and satisfying.

Checkurheart -

I hate to disagree with you, but I think T needs to be around some women. Yep - men are good for men, and they can unload their hurt and anger. But I am sensing that T needs a woman's touch.

I will say it again - men don't do well without a woman. That might sound sexist, but I truly believe it. Women have a lot of support from other women, and it has been that way through the years. We can cope quite well, thankyou.

T, on the other hand needs to develop some safe relationships with women. They will give him what a man cannot give him.

I am not convinced I need a support group per se. I am convinced I need recreational contact with women for myself that is in a friendship only situation. This is hard given that I work very long days and then look after my D's of an evening!

Normally 2300 - 0000 is "Me Time" lol!

T - It is up to you. But if I were you, I would get in a support group. And it will be hard, but most groups meet one night a week for about 2 hours.

Whatever you decide will be fine. You desperately need to be with women in a friendship only situation.

believer,

The data and research support your ascertian that men don't fair as well after divorce as women do, and for the reasons you stated. Most women develop support groups of friends, most men do not.

I would go even further and say most of us guys have a hard time accepting help even if it is offered.

Tiberon, pay attention here.

God Bless,

JL

JL -

Thanks for agreeing. I thought that I would get a lot of flack on this point. I think women, through the ages, have come together to care for and support one another. Men, being the warrior type, haven't.

So when our world is ripped apart, we women circle the wagons. Men are mostly on their own.

What sort of Support Group are you really suggesting here though. Remember I am not in the USA, we don't have the environment or community that makes selfhelp/therapy easy.

Believer,

I agree it is the warrior type approach that leads to being alone. It is a great weakness of us guys, and yet it is what allows us to strike into new territory and invent...we don't need group support. So our weakness is also our strength, it that GOTCHA of nature isn't it?

Tiberon, I think she is talking about a divorce support group type of setting in a church or community. I don't know if they have them where you live. Failing that take up a hobby that has a mix of males and females. But, mostly get OUT amongst the people Tiberon and make an impact on them with your presence. Those are my thoughts.

God Bless,

JL

T -

Oh, I thought you were living in the US. Here there are recovery groups in almost every church - divorce recovery, grief recovery, you name it. If they are not available in your country, try what JL suggests.

JL -

Awww, the weakness of men, and their strengths. So we are back to that wonderful, yet sad, difference in the sexes.