Well, I just had another conversation with OW ... she TM me that she had questions, that she wanted to get to the bottom of it and she would think that me too ...
So I TM her back to call me ... I know, I know ... curiosity killed the cat right? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Well, this cat is losing lives quickly ...
She calls, I'm on my way to lunch at home ... and the first thing she said was that she didn't have anything against me ... that she never did ... but that she thought there was something going one between xH and me ... and he was just saying to her that we were friends but he didn't know if he wanted to be with her ...
I took a turn and told her, I'm in my way to your work, I'll call you when I get there ...

So I got there and we 'wasted' our time talking during our lunch hour and we compared notes ... Well he is lying to her about us ... and is being lying to me about them ... according to her they still sleep together when he visits OC and tells her that he loves her and wants her to be with her ... at this point I just feel numb ...
I told her that I was just tired of this situation and as long as we both let him he was going to lie to the both of us ... so I invited her home this afternoon .. am I crazy?

She just called and told me that she went to her house were he was with OC (I knew that) and that she wanted to know the truth and that he told her that he didn't want to be in a relationship with anyone right now. She said to him that I needed to know that and he said that I knew.

Yes, you guessed right, I called him ... he said that she didn't go home to have lunch but that they talked on the phone ... and that she said she wanted to know the truth and that he said that we were dating ...

who is being played here?
We'll see what happens this afternoon if she goes there ...

Really, I'm just so tired of all of this ... I don't even have any desired to cry or to fight ... or do anything ...

Hi Mily -

Big Hug for you first! So sorry for your day so far!

I wish I had some great words of advice for you but I don't. I hope you get to the bottom of everything but when you are dealing with two known liars/cheaters, who knows if you will ever be able to!

I just wanted to write and let you know I am thinking of you and will say an extra prayer for you.

Hang in there!

Beth

Wow hun I would avoid having her in your home if at all possible.

I think your husband is on the fence and will continue to tell both of you lies as long as you are both believing him.

BUT I also think that the OW may be playing games because maybe he did tell her that he didnt want to be with her and is trying to tip your hand to push your husband away. She did admit to you that he said he did not want to be with her anymore as well, if i read correctly.

I am sorry but most OW that I know are all about manipulation- obviously from the get go.... but more men are about fence sitting and being cakemen. I really cannot tell you what to do as far as who to believe BUT I really would put some strict rules down with your husband at this point....#1 NO contact without you present or another trusted person.

I also would get PROOF from the OW of what she is saying is going on before I would completely believe her... remember she is more than happy being the second fidel or there would not be an OC or the adultery in the first place... so if he is pulling away from her then that may prompt her to come to you.

(((Mily)))

You were so gracious in giving me some words of encouragement the other day....

I'm so sorry to hear what you've been going through today.

I had a conversation with OW right before I Plan B'd my H. H was telling me that he was just seeing OW for visits with OC and that nothing was going on between them anymore. OW calls me to tell me that he's telling her that we're getting a divorce and he wants to marry her and start a family with her and OC.

I immediately went to her house and picked her up, brought her to my home and we compared notes while waiting for my H to come home from work. He was lying to us both - alot.

She may not have told me the complete truth, she may have said some things that were said to hurt me intentionally (my H told her that the thought of touching me made him physically ill), but in the end when it was the two of us confronting my H as a united front, my H was forced to come clean. It was a gut-wrenching experience. It's high on my "all time worst ever days of my life" list, but it was the end of his BS and the beginning of Plan B (a new life for AVNL). Four months later my H and I were dating again and beginning to reconstruct our marriage.

If this is what it takes, then so be it. If you can handle it, it might just be the best thing. It doesn't matter if OW is lying, because if the three of you are in the same room no one's going to get away with lying about anything. You will all have someone to answer to.

I would've gone to ANY lengths to know the truth, and it all fell in my lap when OW and I confronted my H at the same time. Plus, it made my H keel over. All this time OW and I were loathed enemies, and he came home to (surprise!) OW and I working together.

God Bless You, Mily!

((((((Mily))))))

Stay strong, stand up for yourself, and remember that we're all rooting for you!

AVNL

Beth and Cordelia {{{thanks}}} ...
The weird thing is that right now, I don't feel anything, I'm not mad, I'm not sad ... I am a little disappointed but I don't know if it is about H or OW or just the whole situation ... or maybe is just a self-defense mechanism I haven't try before ... I'm tired ... very tired ...

Maybe I'm being really naive about all of this, but I believe H when he says he wants to be with me ... I believe OW is manipulative so I don't know if her new action plan is to get me to leave him so she can be with him ...
FYI - she just sent me this message:
Let me ask you, are we on the same page or are you still going to let him sleep in your bed?
See what I mean?

But I also believe that he needs to say the things that he says to me in front of her ... and that the three of us are all clear about all of this ... reason why I want us to have a conversation together because if not I can easily see him saying to me ... don't believe anything she says ... and he saying to her do not believe anything Mily says ...

so far the only one I know is not lying is me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
or may be I'm lying to myself about how good things feel between H and I ... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I don't know anymore ...

So right now I think he still fence sitting but more to my side ... and I believe she wants to stir up things between us ...

so if he is pulling away from her then that may prompt her to come to you.

This is what I think is going on ... or what I would like to believe is going on ... and everything goes back to how much do I really trust him? he's been doing pretty good these past months ... and his actions match his words ... whatever game he is playing or OW is playing ... I want it to stop!

Right now, I just left everything in God's hands ... I'm not going to worry about it anymore until we talked ... if we talk ... we'll see ...
but one thing is for sure ... things will not be the same after tonight ...

==============
Beth, how are you doing?

AVNL,
thanks for your words ... you couldn't have described all of this better ... I'm ready ... I'm ready to whatever happens ... I want to know the truth and deal with whatever neads to be dealt with ...

Mily, I hope it works out for you. I also think it could be beneficial for you to meet w/ OW. I know when OW and I could get along to get info. to each other it was helpful. You do have to be careful though because obviously you have to questions OW's motives (and your H's). Good luck, I'm praying for you!

Mily,

I thought about you all night last night, hoping things went well for you. Please give us an update...

((((((Mily))))))

AVNL

Well, here we go again ...
OW was going to get home around 7:15pm ...
xH got home, we went out, took DD out for a walk ... he kept feeding little bits of information from his conversation with OW earlier ... how he told her that we were dating and that she accepted it ... that she was finally ready to move on ...
before 7pm I couldn't wait anymore and I told him that I talked to her ... that we compared notes, that he was lying ... and that she was coming to the apt for the three of us to talk ... so he went again on how they already talked and he told her what he wanted ... I told him, one of you or the both of you are lying to me ... she said that you were sleeping with her ... so he started crying ... yep ... and he said that he was sorry that it was just a couple of times, you don't know how she is, I did it to keep her quiet and I felt bad about it because I do love you and I want to be with you ... it was not love ... I never told her that I loved her or that I wanted to be with her ...
I told him that I couldn't trust him anymore ... that all the trust he gained these past months, we were back to square one again ... that I felt used and played ... then he did something that never had done before he started begging to me to forgive him, to give him another opportunity ... that he will show me for the rest of my life that he wanted to be with me and no one else, that he didn't want to loose me ... I just told him very calmed, when she comes, exactly what you are saying to me is what you are going to say to her ... there should not be any doubt in my mind or in her mind of what you want to do ...
We went outside to wait for her. She got there exactly at 7:15 ... she had OC with her ... they played a little outside, no words from anyone ... we went inside and sat down.
So she said to him ... Papi (I hate when she calls him that!) how do you feel ... (you have to be kidding me! she's concerned about his feelings!?) ... so he looked at her like what? ... and said to her we already talked this afternoon about this ... I told you I don't want anything with you ... I want to be with Mily ... she said that's not what you said ... you said you didn't want to be in any relationship with any of us ... he said, I told you I don't want to have any relationship with you, I want to be with Mily, I don't know how else to tell you ...
(yep ... she was not expecting that ... )
so she gives another try, you were lying to the both of us ... and he said I lied to Mily and I'm sorry for what I did, it was a mistake ... he looked at me and said please, forgive me, I'm sorry ...
she started crying , she insulted him ... she said that she was the sole provider for OC and he was nothing so all decisions about OC were going to be hers, she didn't consider him a father, that she was going to find someone else to be a real l father for OC ... a lot of things ...
By this time, DD was paying attention to the conversation and her little face seemed confused ... so I told OW, let's go outside ... we sat down, she kept crying and saying how much she loves him, that she wants to be with him ... then that he didn't love them, he didn't love her or other child, that he was everything she had ... that she was a better person when she was with him ... I just listened ... I'm trying to find compassion for her ... I couldn't ... then she said that she had no friends, that she deserved everything that was happening, that what she was going to tell people ... then she said to me - you have to leave him, he doesn't deserve you ... leave him. you can find the strength to do it ... I'll help you ... yep ... there is my compassion for her ... she is really screwed ...
She left a quarter before nine ...

After she left, he said how sorry he was that he would never lie to me again ... how do you feel - I asked him ... he said that he was relieved that it was over with her .... that he felt that a big load was lifted from his shoulders ...

How do I feel?
I didn't cry ... not one tear ... thatnks for your prayers, they helped to keep myself in control ... I feel that we are back to square one again ... I just feel tired ...

Mily -
I HATE this forum! I have written you twice now and POOF it disappeared into cyberland!


I just wanted to say - WAY TO GO MILY!!!! You handled the sitch with grace. You didn't allow yourself to play outraged xW or helpless victim - you acted like a level headed adult. You should be very proud of yourself!!!


I hope now you can really move forward . . . either with or without H. It does seem like he may FINALLY be waking up! At least you,H and OW now are all on the same page.

I'll continue to pray for you. Hang in there and take care of yourself -- remember, the big future decisions can wait until you have worked through this.

Beth

You asked how things were going for me - pretty good. I'll tell you more later. Thanks for asking. If you ever want to email, let me know and I'll give you my new address. It may be easier than fighting this forum to get my posts to go through!

Mily,

Congratulations on a job well done! (((((((Mily))))))

Take some time for yourself today, it is no wonder you are feeling tired and drained. If you can manage, find an hour to indulge yourself in a nap, a bubble bath, a quiet spot and a glass of wine, or anything else to pamper your soul.

If I could, I'd buy you lunch.

Well done!

AVNL

Mily,

You are such a strong person. I think you did the right thing.

Hopefully you and your H can now start fresh, on a new page the same page.

I give you alot of credit I dont think I could have kept my mouth shut if my OW had told me to leave my H.


Lori

WOW is all I can say... lol I would have told her that she needs to help herself and that you can take care of yourself.

I am sorry but the words she said sound obsessive and stalker like.

I really felt sick to my stomach for you when you said he had admitted to sleeping with her.

That keeps her hanging on forever... did you both agree that there would be no contact unless you were involved?

I wish you rest. Stay strong the road ahead will be bumpy this has just begun to get ugly I am sure she will not go away quietly... keep her words in your head if I felt that way about someone I would lie, cheat, steal, to keep them in my life if I was an obsessed low self esteem demented OW.

She is not gone yet it will take time to sink in her skull.... the best thing your husband can do is never speak to her directly only by 3rd party. Any contact good or bad is a fix for the addicted ow. She sounds obsessed with and addicted to your H.

Thanks for all your words!
The first time I talked to OW (a year ago)... she wanted to apologize, she didn't and I was the one doing the talking and the pleading, I didn't feel good about that ... the second time I talked with OW I told her a lot of things to hurt her on purpose, which is not like me and I felt bad ... but this time I didn't talk ... well during lunch I told her that we were dating and answer some questions she had ... but no talking or pleading or anything from my part ... just observing, listening and analyzing ...
xH was impress by my attitude this time. I told him, every time something happens I'd felt that a train ran over me and I was not expecting it.
This time, I was prepared ... I knew something was going on (I wasn't expecting that he was sleeping with her) but I knew something was going on because why on earth would she kept calling and talking to him if there was nothing going on ... but I also knew that OW was going to go crazy at some point .... I was just waiting and waiting and I was prepared ... I confronted the train and stopped it ... I do have bruises and scratches but at the end I was still standing up ...

I also told him, because you were saying to me whenever you talked to her and whenever you went to her house and I was able to confirm by the cell phone records that your were telling the truth at least on that ... I believed you most than I believed her, especially when her stories didn't match yours ...
Like she said she went to his apartment and everything he had in there was hers ... which is not true ... he only has a TV from her and he is giving it back ... because I had a key and I've been to the apt and I know what is in there ... and a lot of other stuff that she contradicted herself.

Yesterday, I had a team building event from work so it was really good timing because I didn't have to sit here thinking about the day before ... I had fun and I was able to enjoy the day and feel good. (Plus xH kept calling and sending TM that whole day with I love you's)

We talked a little yesterday night, mostly about feelings ... he even said that it was time to put back our wedding pictures on the wall (I took them down after he left in Feb last year) ... we still need to discuss a game plan, an action plan, a battle plan, a life plan ... yeah ... life plan sounds better ... we are still planning to move in a year or two back home ... but right now that neither of them want to see the other, now it's the time to set boundaries and do things legally with OC ...
That's our next step ...
I do feel that we are back to square one, but wiser ...

Beth, here is my email mily73ojeda@cs.com

Thank you everyone for your words, support and encouragement ... my mom was on surgery on Tuesday (just ambulatory, she was back home by night) and the only friend that understands all of this, she was on meetings all day so she didn't received my call or read this post until yesterday ... so I knew this was something God wanted to confront by myself (well, I did had your prayers and thoughts) ... thanks again!

Hey,

You know that I am feeling your pain, RIGHT!!!!! I am sooooo sorry that the knife of pain has struck you again. I must say that I am so proud of you and the way you handled yourself. You have been so strong until it is unreal. I am proud of the woman that you have become through all of this. We need to be reminded that we do have the strength to tackle all that comes our way ( I know easier said than done)!

I know as well that you hurt because of your H yet again deceitfulness, but maybe he has really put one foot in front of the other to repair the damage. I personally don't think you should put the old wedding pictures back up (ever)!!! I know - hear me out FIRST!!!!! I think the two of you should not reflect on any old memories anymore and begin again with a clean slate - FRESH!!! Create new and loving memories POST OW/OC and POST DIVORCE!!!! A new beginning has to take place to fully recover. No going BACK for ANYTHING no teven the happy times.

MAKE NEW ONES!!!! TOGETHER!!!!!

You know that I love ya, and wish the best for ya, and am always praying for ya. Keep your head up, your heart whole and fed, and always remember what to do if it rears its ugly head!!!

Trust is the key and i pray that your H realizes that and wants to really make it work no matter what he has to do earn it.

I'll talk to you later,

Love ya,

JT <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Well, after one week, here we come again ...
Tears finally got to me on Friday ... no, nothing happened ... he told me he loved me and I just started crying ... it was more of a cleansing crying ...

JT, some days (like today) I feel like a football player ... hey, maybe that's my true calling <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> ... I'm still standing up ... even with that I don't have the strength to put the pictures back ... I was looking at them and they made me sad ... I do like the idea of having new ones ...

Last week OW asked him for her car seat back before leaving. There has been no calls, no contact ... he's being a little depressed about not seeing OC (and going through withdrawal) ... I told him about the withdrawal effect and he said that he didn't missed her but he missed OC ...

xH is off today from work. Which, btw, someone told him that she's been trashing him at her work where he used to be ...
So he called my lawyer. She would not take him as a client because of conflict of interests since she was the one that divorced us. It felt kind of good her loyalty, demonstrated that she is not in just for the money ... and sad because I think she is very good.
So we are going to be looking into that.

He said that he was going to leave the car seat in her car ... just get prepared because she is going to explode, no matter what he does or how he does it, she is going to explode.

She called him, he didn't answer the phone ... so she called me ...
curiosity killed the cat ... is anyone counting how many lives my cat has left?
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />
She was furious ... she told me about the car seat, blah, blah ... [color:"purple"] didn't you ask to have the car seat back last week? [/color]... [color:"brown"] well, it's mine [/color]... she trashed him and complain that he didn't call or TM her to ask about OC, that he didn't love OC ... how she wanted to have an abortion and he didn't let her ... [color:"purple"]I don't think he would ever tell anyone to have an abortion [/color]... [color:"brown"]well, he did, I had an abortion before and he didn't even go with me [/color]...
Hi roller coaster!
She kept talking how she didn't want to have OC, now he wasn't going to have a father .. that he was a B*****D ... yes, she called her own child that <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
Then she changed her topic, how could you be with him? how could you trust him?, he would do it again, he's with you only for your money ... (yeah, because I'm swimming in $100 bills ... nope! I'm swimming in debts! argh) ...
half hour of this ... I told her ... I don't know what to tell you ... I'm sorry about the abortion but I don't what else to tell you ... (well, I do know ... but it wouldn't be nice) ... I told her that we are going to a lawyer ... and she said that why if he doesn't love OC ... then she said ... what are you going to tell your daughter about what kind of woman you are? what example are you giving her? ... [color:"purple"]what?!?!?!? You have to be kidding me ... that's for me to deal with that when the time comes [/color] [color:"brown"] I want to help you, leave him, you have to leave him [/color]
She kept talking ... then she said that if she had the guarantee from us that we would never move ... that she would let him see OC in her house under her presence ...
I didn't say anything ... nothing that could cause problems or more drama ...
Then she said, you can rip off OC's photos and never talk to your daughter about him again ... [color:"purple"] I would never do that ... [/color] [color:"brown"] I'm not going to let you or your daughter see OC either if that's what you are thinking ... [/color]

So many things, I just got hung on the abortion <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
I called xH and told him ... and he swears that he didn't know about the abortion ... [color:"green"] I would never tell anyone to have an abortion, ever! [/color]

How do I feel? I feel sad ... if she really had an abortion, I feel bad for her ... it isn't until something like this happens that you know where you stand <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
She sounded so desperate ... But at the same time, she is forgetting all the things that they did ... they had an affair! the destroyed what I had ... why does she keeps talking to me like I'm the one that are doing the things wrong here!?!? ...

Anyway, I am not going to answer her calls ... whatever we decide to do about us is between us and she does not have any bussiness in that ... I am not saying that I trust him 100% because that's not true and it will never be ... she's just trying to feed my insecurities ... and for a moment I let her ...

(((MILY)))

So sorry.....more drama.

Big Big Hugs, Mily....

AVNL