It has been a year and a month since I found out that my H had been having an A with a family friend. We were all best buds and have taken vacations with each other for more than 15 years. In fact, I found out about the A while we were all on vacation together. I didn't tell anyone for 3 weeks while I checked out all the details to make sure that what I thought was going on really was. I managed to lose 18 pounds in three weeks and neither of them noticed. I have a few extra pounds, but the loss of 18 should have been apparent.

The EA affair with my H started before she was married to the man she eventually cheated on. My H and I had been married almost 5 years at that point. We were the couple everyone wanted to be, and I didn't think we had any problems. We never fought and seldom disagreed on anything. Two of the three fights we had involved her in some way.

About a year after we all started hanging out together, my H and I had a baby. Of course, after the baby, I was more tired than usual, but that is the only thing I can think of that was different. I wrote off many of my concerns to life in general. I thought this was just the way things happened after you'd been married so long and that eventually, when the kids were raised, we would go back to "knowing" each other.

I suspected sparks between my H and OW early on, as did her boyfriend/husband and we both confronted them at separate times and were assured they were "just friends". The OW and her BF actually broke up over it, which I did not know until recently, but she begged him to take her back and he did. I, too, am a trusting person and very much a pushover, so I believed my H when he said there was nothing going on. I had no reason not to, even though I thought she was too friendly with my H. Unfortunately, I brushed it off to the fact that that is just the way she is, with everyone. He is also a flirt. I knew from stories that she had told that she was somewhat promiscuous, so I should have been more cautious but I don't like to think people are capable of doing what she did. I was brought up in a very religious household and my H is the only one I ever dated or slept with and she knew it and I think it was a game to her to go after him. But, at the time, she lived 100 miles away (still does), and what did I have to be worried about? She visited often and we continued to build our friendship. We did many things with both of their families, but not so much my H and mine. They married in '92 and I was secretly thrilled because I thought some of the flirting would end. Strangely enough, she wanted to wear my wedding dress, which I decided was not a good idea. My husband went nuts when I told him that I didn't think it was right for her to be the next one to wear my dress. I thought my daughter should have that option. I also thought it was very strange that she didn't want her own. A huge fight resulted from that. She also has my exact engagement ring. Getting stranger by the minute, huh?

I became pregnant soon after the wedding, which my H and I were both in, and apparently that is when the PA started. Disgusting, isn't it, that you would enter into a marriage when you have feelings for someone else's husband? My H can't remember/won't say when they had sex the first time, but he says it was after DD was born. She says it was after her DD was born, 5 months later. Her H and I talked a lot in the beginning to swap stories and see if they were jiving, but it became very hard to get out of "the dark hole" whenever we conversed. Her stories changed so much that he was having a really hard time. We occassionally check up on each other through his family, which I remain in contact with, but it is still hard. Do you think I should also have NC with him? I'd like to know if he has noticed any suspicious behavior.

Her H told her from the beginning that they could salvage the marriage. They went to MC for about 6 weeks but they ended it when she didn't want to go anymore. They are still married, but since they do live 100 miles away (thank God) I don't really know how things are going. Yes, I care. I want them to stay married. His family is here, so there is still a chance I could run into her, but thankfully haven't so far.

I moved my H's things to his brothers and changed the locks on the doors before I confronted him, knowing that he would deny everything. Amazingly, he didn't. He stayed at his brothers for about 2 weeks before we decided to make a go of it. We have been in MC since then, although I don't think we have been productive for the past few months. I do feel like my H and my relationship is definitely better, but I still have huge trust issues with him and am still very saddened by her betrayal. Was it real or was she just using me? Her H believes my H was using him, although I truly believe my H loved him like a brother (they share a birthday). My H and OW both maintain that they were living a secret life and that they never though of us. I have a hard time with that as well. How can you come home to me after having been with her and not think about what you have done? Did they never think of what would happen if they were caught? Our daughters were best friends. Their son idolized my older son. And now it is all gone. All of us lost our "friends," as well as the wonderful relationship we had with their families, immediate and extended.

IN my search for answers, I've read all of Dr. Harley's books and found them to be quite helpful. I've read assorted other books and literature as well, but there is nothing out there that deals with the loss of the friend in an A. However, Janis Abrahms Spring's book "How Can I Forgive You?" did help me somewhat. My upbringing told me I had to forgive her, but it's very hard because she has not earned it. She has not contacted me and told me she is sorry. She's done nothing. I don't know how she feels, but from the information I do get, I don't think she is sorry about the A, I think she is just sorry about getting caught. My H did try and tell her H how sorry he was through a letter, but that didn't work well, so I didn't want to take that approach with her. If we are going to have contact, it needs to be face to face. I want to see her eyes and her body language. Do I still want to be friends? No, but I need to hear what she has to say.

What I HAVE done is accept that it has happened and tried to move on, even though I still think I deserve a lot more answers. AS I tell the therapist, my puzzle isn't complete. It is a continuous, daily battle, but I don't dwell on it like I used to. Yes, I still cry almost every day and I am still looking for answers, but it is better than it used to be.

I am very bad at initiating conversations, but there are still lots of things I would like to know that I think would help me get beyond this. My intention is not to throw it in his face and I certainly don't like bringing up her name, but I just feel so clueless. I feel stupid enough for not listening to my gut for 15 years. I want there to be hope, but some days I just don't feel like I am where I should be.


BS (me) 42
FWH 45
DDay 7-9-04
In recovery

Stumbling,

Welcome to MB...you have done much in the 1 1/2 years since d-day - and I have to say I'm bothered that your recovery isn't futher along.

Is it possible that your H and his OW are still in contact? If so, even 100 miles away the affair could be on-going.

As far as information you need to have. You are entitled to every detail that you need in order to help you process this enormous betrayal. In situations like yours where the betrayal is by both people in the affair, I think it's even more difficult to come to terms with the loss.

Am I right that their affair lasted 15 years?

Also, do you feel that your MC is effective?

Is your husband doing his part in trying to heal the marriage?

Have you used any of Dr. Harley's questionnaires the EN & LB questionnaire in counseling?

Blessings to you.

Csue,

You are correct that the affair went on for 15 years. He says that the "connection" was there as soon as they met. Supposedly, they called it off for a couple of years at one point, but the exact time is a mystery as his story and hers don't match. He did share with me when it started again, he just wasn't sure when it had stopped. I have no idea how often they met. She was here at least every other weekend and they also met half way sometimes from what I can gather from some evidence I picked up. She conveniently drove separate from her H when she was here because he was often on call. She borrowed a vehicle from family when she hadn't driven her own car so they could meet.

I have no evidence that they are in contact. I check home phone, cell phone and home email, but I don't have access to work phone and work email. His general attitude has changed drastically since the exposure though and his life doesn't seem to be as miserable. He had been almost unbearable to live with the last few years, but I wrote it off to his father's death and his work. He always seemed to want "time for himself." And he remarked frequently that his life wasn't worth living. I don't hear those comments anymore and he seems to be much happier.

Being the paranoid person that I am, however, I often wonder if he hasn't figured out how to fool me, knowing what it is that I need to hear and see. He does not know that I installed spyware on the computer and can see what he is up to, but I think he knows I check his phone. It certainly would be easy to delete traces of calls from her on his cell, or to use the work phone. That is why I occasionally like to check with the OW husband to see if he has any suspicions.

Yes, I believe my husband is doing his part...but, he will only do what I ask. I asked him to read several books and he did. We read HNHN and went over some of the questions, but we need to do the EN questionnaire. I plan on asking for that soon as I don't know for sure what his needs are either. I have asked on several occassions if his needs are being met and if there is anything else I need to be doing. The conversation is usually short because he doesn't want to talk about it, but his response has always been positive.

I do not believe our MC is effective. We met with him today and spent an hour talking about my husbands recent trip to Canada and about 3 minutes talking about us. This has been the course of action for some time but today was pretty much the last straw. I spent time yesterday interviewing some other counselors, but I believe I need to let this man know that he is not giving me what I think we need and let him take corrective action before moving to another counselor and rehashing it all over. No, I haven't discussed that with H yet, but that is also on the agenda for this evening. The MC has never had us do any "homework" or set up a course of action. We basically just talk about how we are doing. We have also always met with him together.
You should also know that MC knew husband from previous counseling sessions for other things. He knows him well and I have been aprehensive since the beginning that he might be a little too bias. However, it's not a bad thing that he knows H well, it's just a bad thing that he doesn't know me as well. Make sense?

So, I know that my main fears lie in bringing up things with H but I can't move forward until I do. I was told early on to be careful what information I asked for and to think about how the answer would affect me. My answer to that was that I am the type of person who needs to see the entire picture to be able to start making sense of thing. Both my H and MC think that answers can make it all worse, but I told them the worst is over, the answers are more like a bandaid for the wound.

Thank you for your concern. It is sad to see so many people in my boat.

Stumbling,

I only have a few minutes, but want to follow up on a few things you've said.

You said this about your counselor - However, it's not a bad thing that he knows H well, it's just a bad thing that he doesn't know me as well. Make sense?

Yes it makes perfect sense. The counselors I know wouldn't see someone for MC that they've seen for IC - it really is hard for them to be objective so most won't even consider it.

This is the way I felt too - you said -

"I was told early on to be careful what information I asked for and to think about how the answer would affect me. My answer to that was that I am the type of person who needs to see the entire picture to be able to start making sense of thing. Both my H and MC think that answers can make it all worse, but I told them the worst is over, the answers are more like a bandaid for the wound."

I had to know everything, I didn't want my husband and his OW to share any knowledge that was a secret from me. It truly was the path to healing for me.

Have you considered counseling with Steve Harley? I would like to suggest to you that you make even just 1 phone call. He works like a coach, once he understands your particular situation - he'll give "homework assignments" and help you and your husband with a custom made action plan to guide you into recovery and beyond.

It's what I wish for everyone I see on this forum. Please consider it. I truly would love to hear that other MCs are as good as he is - but honestly I seldom ever hear that people are happy with the results of their MC.

I'll be back when I have more time....glad you're here!

Im sorry you haven't gotten much response. I used to wonder if there was a "secret club", but there is not. Just try to change the tag line.

Why are you obssessing now? What gives you reason to believe that A isn't over? Do you check cell records? Does H have time that is unaccounted for? I just want to make sure that you are not acting paranoid. YOu don't want to sabotage your M.

I hadn't thought about my paranoia sabotaging the marriage. I'll have to toss that one around. Actually, it's more like my lack of ability to initiate the conversations I know we need to have, but I've gotten nowhere when I try and broach the subjects. I know he just wants it to all go away, but it won't until I get answers. In the meantime, I get frustrated that he isn't talking because he has something to hide. Don't get me wrong. I don't expect him to be a fountain of non-stop wisdom, but we need to quit acting like everything is OK. I think I just need to go to IC and work out some ways to quit being so passive so I can move on.

What do you want answers to? What conversations? After this amount of time, what is not okay for you? 15 years is a long time! You have to be really really mad. Have you thought about going to a therapist to deal with your anger on your own? YOu probably need to really scream at a picture of him. I just don't think that at this point it would be good for your M to do it to him. I understand that you would be suspicious of it ongoing, but unless you have something tangible or something to write here that sounds sketchy, it might be your imagination. Answer my questions above. I am a FWW and it takes one to know one, so tell me your fears and what you have, and I will listen.

Stumbling,

Why don't you sit down and write out the questions you need answers to and why you need them. Review them after a few days to see if they are truely necessary and will serve your purpose and then give the questions to your H to answer.

It is likely that you will do a better job if you write them down. You could also use email if you like. Be creative with your communications but make sure you do communicate. A 15 year affair is hard to get through, and it will take you longer than you can imagine. I also think it will take your H awhile to really get into things.

There is a thread on Recovery that address the issues of a Long Term Affair, I believe PW1 has it. Please look for it.

God Bless,

JL