I have been separated now for almost 3 years but I still have alot of contact with stbx because of our kids. My son and daughter-in-law live with stbx at my former home. I don't feel like being with stbx makes me pine or yearn for him. I do like it when we are all together---we have fun. Unfortunately, most of our life together was ignoring the hurtful so we can still do that very well. So I fear that If I am huring, I can just pretend I am OK---all is ok---life is just a jolly time.

I do not have resentment anymore toward stbx. I don't care how he lives. His decisions do not directly effect me but I do enjoy his company when he is sober. BUT I have to make a decision to divorce him and I cannot do it. He will not decide and I am not sure where he is at with what he thinks the future holds for us.

I am not being too successful in creating a new life. I can't seem to make friends very well. I had more friends when married. Do divorced people have leprosy? My best friend died a few years ago, my other good friend is busy with husb and kids and grandkids and work. The friends I seem to make are so dysfunctional that they are high maintenance to keep any type of contact with. I am the one always reaching out to others and I have decided to stop.

My life is full and I have really experrienced some very neat things since separating from stbx like ushering at a performing arts center, trip to Greece, kayaking, lounging at a community pool for the summer, taking college courses etc etc etc. I do not seem to have a dull moment.
BUT, I cannot seem to get out of the pain. The pain of loss, betrayal, lost hopes and dreams seem to just lay there inside me so when I am tired or reflective, they weigh me down and are so annoyngly painful.

The pain keeps me from having energy to reach out to others. The pain reminds me I am not worthy. The pain shouts to me that no one can be trusted. EGADS---that is why I want the pain to end.

To those who have recovered, how did you heal? What helps healing? Was the trauma of betrayal like a broken bone or surgery site that never is the same again?

I do not feel like I am making progress at the moment and I do not know why.
Has anyone gone to Celebrate Recovery support group? Was it helpful?

I do feel the need for support or just someone to help me work through this "pot hole" in my life. I feel like there is a gully of pain inside me and I keep falling back into it......UGH

TW

Well TW...you are not alone...I feel the same way. It is hard...and I wish I had some answers on how to move on. Sometimes I think if I was going through this when younger...it wouldn't be so bad. It is just hard at this age.

I have talked to many women who feel the same way...so I don't think it is unusual. It seems to end with another relationship that means as much as your past one did. At least that is what I have seen. Or you find some other focus for your life that is enriching. I haven't been able to find that yet.

For me, it is hard to replace the good things that we had...and my family is still hurting from the divorce. Hard all the way around.

Wish I could be of more help. I am afraid I am in a bit of a pity party tonight. Luckily my two youngest are coming home tomorrow--they have been vacationing with ex and bimbo in Florida. I would have loved a vacation this year. Unfortunately, I couldn't afford one...and now it is time for school to start again. Back on the treadmill.

Take Care Pat

I was married for 21 years. I have a job I enjoy, and probably more friends than I did when I was married, but that doesn't diminish the pain. I don't think it is possible to ever "recover" and I suspect that thinking that you should have gotten over it by now just makes it worse.

Well, let me join the pity party since my ex just told me he’s just started “dating” a girl less than half his age! Our kids are older than she is! I think those of us who were married for so long have much more to deal with in many respects. We have worked toward building mutual assets (financial, goals for retirement plans, our kids, etc.) during most of our married lives and then WHAM! it’s out the window and we have to start all over. I think the “trauma” is harder for us.

It’s probably true in that you had more friends when you were married. Because you had twice the contacts as friends, due to your H. Our friends, and parents of our kid’s friends, had to choose. Some just honestly don’t know what to say...kind of like when someone dies. What has helped me are the friends I have from church. They have been absolutely, hands down the biggest and best support group I could want. I was just over at the home of one of them 2 nights ago, when I found out about ExH’s latest sex partner. I found sympathy and encouragement by confiding in this wonderful woman.

What are you focusing on these days? You said several things to examine:

Is this because you are trying to “fix things”? (I don’t know, just asking, since you mention your H’s alcoholism) Those of us who lived with addictive people sometimes have that tendency...


It sounds to me like you HAVE been successful! I think you’re just going through a rough spot, as we all do, on your road to complete healing.

~~~~~~~~~~~
Married 25 years before separation
Separated 3 years before divorce
Kids: 27D + SIL, 25S

Movin on, I remember you as formerly Misery. Thanks for sharing. I know there is no answers to all the pains of this life but it sure feels good to know that we are not alone. The pain is deep like that song "the first cut is the deepest and I'll try to love again." The whole thought of trying again just gets me down. UGH.

You sound like you have your hands full cause you still have children to care for. Oh and the pain of your kids "having fun" with the OW and XH. That is the pits.

Do you have some support? that is what I seem to be missing. The aloneness is unbearable at times but not all the time, thank God.

TW

Nellie, You are right----the guilt of not being over this is exhausting. I beat myself up but I feel if I try to disucss with others, they will look at me like "when are you gonna move on". It is like I need to talk about it still and sort it out but I should be over the pain.

Avon, I really have been lamenting the loss of my hopes and dreams just dashed. I long for a house and I can't seem to stop. While driving to places like work, shopping etc, I steal glimpses at the homes along the way and I yearn for my home again. I long for the together times that were good. I long for the ability to continue making memories. I want the aloneness to go away . I really try to ignore it but it just crops up.

In the friendship area, I am always trying to meet new friends but it is usually one-sided or I just chase people away, not sure. My occupation is tiring and stressful so I have no energy to try to keep reaching out to others. I very seldom have friends call me to see how I am doing, I mostly have to call them so I do not know how to take that. It sure wears on my self-esteem issues.

Then my life is really good----I am healthy, makin it financially, have restful times, living in a wonderful apartment so I feel guilty that I feel so stuck.

Well thanks for listening. I just need to get some of the infectious stuff out.

Tw

tossed, I think the key is that you are still married even though separated.

Until you are truly single, you can't begin to enjoy the full benefits of being single.

Justin, I think that is a good point but the single life, to me, doesn't have too many benefits. Only two, that you can do whatever you want to do and watch on TV whatever you feel like watching.

Enlighten me.

TW

bumping up for more input.

Tossed Wave,


I was married this time around for 20 years. It is my second D, and I can totally relate. I have spent a total of 30 years being married! I was pretty young when my first M ended, and I still had lots of energy and plans...and years ahead of me.

I'll talk about me, and what I'm going through - and maybe something will resonate with you. I'm better at sharing how I'm coping than giving other people advice for their lives.

What I've realized is I'm too old now to be interested in my career - at least not in the way I once was. I don't care enough anymore. And I'm too old to have kids. I'm beginning to be too old to physically do some of the things I love, and have done for the past 20 years. I'm too old to be embarking on my life's dreams - those dreams are winding down now - either already accomplished, or foresaken for other things.

So, now I'm entering a new period in my life, where instead of asking what the meaning of life is, I'm asking if there is any meaning. Instead of thinking about what I'm going to make of my life, or what I'm going to contribute, I'm facing the fact I've already made whatever I'm going to make, and contributed whatever I was supposed to contribute. At least on a grand scale... that isn't to say there aren't little things, or that I've "given up". But the mindset I've had for 3 decades about these things is no longer realistic, and now needs a facelift.

For most of my life, I've believed there was always another path to follow, another dream to pursue, and lots of time left to do it. For me, losing my marriage at this point in my life, coincides with dealing with my own mortality, and the declining years of my life. A time I never seriously considered as being any different from the early parts of my life. But I was wrong. Instead of sitting in rocking chairs together, my H and I will probably be sitting in nursing homes - alone. We had no kids, and neither of us have any real legacy. So, I - and probably H too - am having to come to grips with that.

For all of my life, maybe until now, I've given people the benefit of the doubt. Believed in the goodness of people, and given people second chances - almost without exception. Now it appears this was a fault, and not a virtue. Something that became evidence of poor judgement rather than being the right thing to do. Facing this is akin to a redefining of myself and who I am, or thought I was. And what this means for trust - ever again - who knows? It does not bode well. And there's not lots of time left to work things out, like there was 20 years ago. Perhaps this is the biggest issue - that there isn't so much time anymore to work these things out.

It may be too late to still share my life with someone - not that it couldn't happen, but it's time to accept that I may end up alone. And it's time to redefine my life - something I wasn't going to do because I wasn't going to face getting old. Instead I was going to think young, to stay young. But that isn't as healthy as it sounds - it was actually a form of avoidance.

The break of my marriage was the catalyst for facing these other truths in my life. And this has been almost as painful as the loss of my marriage.

Now, this may sound rather dismal - but the point is my grief is for more than just the loss of my marriage. I may as well face it. Neither of these losses alone - my marriage or my youth - would have been as catastrophic as the two together. It's ok to feel crummy, and its ok to feel lost. But, to find myself this time, I will need to look somewhere else - somewhere other than where I've looked before. I haven't found that place yet. Or, maybe I have, and that place is MB....

And thank God it happened now - for lots of people, the realization hits when they retire and are suddenly without purpose. At least I can get through it before I end my work life too. See, I'm not really THAT old yet. But I tend to be on the leading edge with respect to facing life changes early - I took a course on midlife crisis when I was in my mid 20s so I wouldn't dread my 30th birthday - sounds quite funny now!

Tossed Wave - I apologize for the length of this. I can only say if we can face the truths in our lives - all of them - we will be able to get past them. I sure hope so - because that's my story and I'm sticking with it!

I'll give my 2 cents, in which I've given a lot this week, I'm sure to be broke soon ((Cheese))...

From the sounds of things you gals are older than me. But I was together with my exww for 21yrs but M'd 19 of those years. Knew her since 12 from same neighborhood.

Tossed W- I understand the pain of the lose, alone time, etc. One plus you have that many don't have is that you still see your WH and you guys talk and have fun. Many as myself our WS's left immediately with no further communication other than to hear all the rumors of OP and DV fight. Your H is with OW but at the same time you are stuck in limbo if to DV or not. It's a tough place to be in. It's harder to overcome the longer you have been with someone. In that you don't necessarily overcome it, but you learn to accept it.

Many people " Stand" for there marriages. If a person is going to stand, then they need to work on them and make themselves and there life attractive. Not just for the sake of the WS but for the sake if the standing spouse decides to move on, while the WS has decided to stay with OP and make a sandcastle. A WS can build a house but its not a home. Things get better with time, educate yourself, put positive things in your reading, watching,etc...

Deja V - My, my, my you sound like life is over! Pick yourself up and realize you are somebody special. Don't you know there's a side of life you have not lived yet! You have such great possibilites ahead.

******
Quote

Instead of sitting in rocking chairs together, my H and I will probably be sitting in nursing homes - alone. We had no kids, and neither of us have any real legacy. So, I - and probably H too - am having to come to grips with that.

For all of my life, maybe until now, I've given people the benefit of the doubt. Believed in the goodness of people, and given people second chances - almost without exception. Now it appears this was a fault, and not a virtue. Something that became evidence of poor judgement rather than being the right thing to do.

***********************************************

Deja V - Did you know the world is crying for someone like you? Yet you think your caring heart of virtue means nothing. A legacy is not all about what you leave for your kids, but a legacy is about making an impact that changes the lives of other people. The greatest legacy a person could leave is that there life shines in there environment that affects other people. See a encyclopedia is full of dead peoples glory and good works that are soon forgotten and remembered no more (faded glory). That's why they make them so people will remember them.

The people who shine beyond and outside of an encyclopedia are people who touches the lives of people on a personal level. Most politians, public people are here today, gone tomorrow, because for them it's an act, power to be seen, no passion,a tax write-off etc, gov't can't love they can only administrate..

But a person who God uses to rise as a SUN to shine in the lives of others, and what they do for others passes from one generation to another. The beauty of a warm and giving heart is a priceless treasure, who could ever put a price on it's beauty and splendor?

But what seperates the billionare that gives, verses a job working person? ( The virtue of the heart and passion). Once again when people know you're real and sincerely trying to help them, they want more of you. A billionare or weathy person, seeks write-offs, tax breaks,etc.. I'll give you this, if you give me that. Therefore they have no true legacy, thats why they will force there legacy on people and build buildings and library's and make people put there names on them.

But a true legacy starts from the virtue of the heart.

This is just for laughs, but I'm sure like many other BS's you, avondale and tossedwave are what we call older foxes. (Meaning good looking). Some years ago some folks posted there picture on somebody's webpage and everybody marvelled at how somebody so beautiful put themselves down so low, and what a fool the WS was for leaving them. But anyway that's my 2 cents. Stay encouraged, great things are ahead.

I was married for 26 years. The pain is still around, although mostly just a twinge like the aches I am now getting in my joints LOL, and sometimes they are worse causing a limp.

Today was a bad day,I am limping, the kids are going to X's house tomorrow for 25 YO son's BD. That hurts. I know he is their father but there was not just all the lies and hurt of the affair, there was rape and physical and emotional abuse. He bought a house down the road from me so I dont even feel comfortable in my own town.

I was invited to his house in May for other son's BD and I told him to never invite me to his house again. After 2 years of therapy and the awakining to my mind of the abuse he heaped on me for so long, I could never be a "guest" in his house. 2 years ago, the last time I tried to hold a civil conversaton with him and he ended by calling me very derogatory names in front of my daughter and raised his hand to hit me was the time I decided was my last conversation with him.

God has reunited with an old boyfriend that has developed into a wonderful love. We are looking forward to the time when I am done school and can be married. I have peace in my life and now we have "couple" friends. The only friends my X brought to the marriage were only drinking buddies and the friends I brought with me were no fun to my husband so in that area I have become wealthy.

QUOTE:
while the WS has decided to stay with OP and make a sandcastle. A WS can build a house but its not a home.

How true! The wise man builds his house upon the rock and that is what I have done. Jesus is my rock and he has helped me get through.

Smiles,
Dawn

I can see how it would sound like that. I don't feel like my life is over - BUT I do feel that the life I thought I was living is over. What was driving me before is gone - and anyway I am not sure I want to take that trip anymore. I am at a major crossroads - and feel I need to face and grieve for all the disappointments and intangible losses in my life. And realize that there is more going on than the loss of my marriage. I have no clue what is coming next, but if I face the rest of my life with the expectations I had over the last 20 years, I will be fooling myself.

OK, I admit I'm having a major post mid-life crisis. I chose to have my midlife crisis early, so that is in the past <VBG>

And quite frankly I do expect to spend the rest of my life alone. Not only do statistics support that, but I truly doubt I can trust again. Not just about trusting someone else, but also about trusting my judgement - so I do not get sucked in by another narcissist or BPD or sociopath.

Thanks for the comments about affecting other people. I wish it was so, but I don't believe I do make a difference in anyone's life. I used to think I made a difference to my H, but now realize that was smoke and mirrors. I don't say this to degrade myself, but because I don't think I have anything special to contribute anymore.

Everlasting, I never have been called "foxy" but I will take it even though you cannot even see me. I aint ugly but foxy just does not come to mind when I think of myself. (that gave me a nice chuckle)

H is no longer involved with OW. She is 30 yrs younger and it was doomed from the start. He is truly remorseful and cannot believe he made such a huge mistake but because he is alcoholic, he lives in regret often. He does not seem to see that he is able to change........He has speical qualities and he would do anything for me but I could never live with a drinking person again so there is no hope for us.

What is your situation?

Sunrise, Praise God for your new love......no one deserves to be raped, abused and treated like crap. I understand you need to stay away from XH.

Deja Vu---You sound down on yourself but I fully understand it. If all life's relationship were destructive and hurtful, how can one feel good about oneself? Self-esteem is baffling to me. God made us to relate to others so how can we feel affirmed and worthy, if no one reinforces it? the stranger on the street does not give a hoot on how wonderful you are.

TW

It's funny you and Everlasting both think I'm down on myself. I don't see it that way. I believe the reality I've been living with for the past 20 years was distorted. As such, I can't trust that anything is as it seems - until I can sort things out and figure out what's really what. My judgement has been proven to be flawed and that needs to be addressed before I can trust my judgement again. I'm in a very different space than I was 20 years ago - in nearly every respect. And I'm just now realizing that. Something happened to me while I was making other plans, but I didn't notice.

Sometimes people continue on a particular path longer than they should - because they committed to it, and don't know how to change, or because they believe they should still want what they used to want. Sometimes people suddenly wake up and wonder, "what in the world am I doing and where am I going?" I'd rather be that person, and live with confusion and difficult transitions, than to keep on going down the wrong path just because it's familiar.

So, I'm questioning everything. I've been asleep for 20 years and woke up thinking it was still 20 years ago. And that my 20 year old dreams and goals were still just as valid as they were back then. As if I, and my life, were static and had not changed in 20 years. I'm coming to grips with that now. And for the first time in my life, I'm realizing how easy it is to slip off the radar screen and be replaced by others who are younger, have more current education, fewer aches and pains, and more energy. That's not defeatist - it just IS. Could I fight it? Sure. Is it worth the energy? No, not any more. Not to me. So --- that's a choice that carries with it certain consequences I now have to accept.

Deja Vu, reality is not politically correct. reality can be so devastating but again it can be freeing if accepted. I can relate to so much of what you feel. I never really struggled with age but after WH's infidelity, I went through a major mid life crisis which I feel was forced on me by all the feelings of being shoved aside for a 27 yr old. Now I have no energy for making a life of my own. What is a "life" like? What am I here for? Because WH is an alcoholic abuser, I have been learning some great tools from Alanon. I also have been getting great insight into how I lost myself in the fixin, rescuing of the irresponsiblities of the drinking spouse. Anything hard was up to me to fix and work through alone. My WH was responsibility in many other ways but anything that caused him emotional upheaval, he avoided. I was the opposite so I dealt with things that were not even my business. I could not let go of anything and felt it was my responsibility whether it was or not. Egads, we had the perfect alcoholic/enabler---parent/child relationship.

I have had a really good week---not trying to change anything, not beating myself up, not trying to figure out the impossible so I am feeling a bit more encouraged with the future.

What are some of your self-awareness tools? How are you discovering these things about yourself?

TW

Different ways - some through insights I've had from counseling, including EMDR therapy last fall. And insights from my IC and our MC (from a year ago). And from lots of reading and suggestions from people on this list ... but also, quite frankly, from introspection as well. I've done lots of reading and thinking in the past about life transitions, midlife crisis, and other things.

Psych has also been sort of a side interest of mine, and I took several courses in Educational Psychology and Adult Learning/Cognition in the masters programs at our university here. I've studied people like Victor Frankl and his logotherapy - I was intrigued by his assessment of why some people survived concentration camps while others didn't. He concluded those who survived had a purpose greater than themselves that kept them going. I've long been interested in human motivation. My father is a retired professor, and social scientist who has done research into motivation, cultures and cross-cultural learning, and leadership. He and I used to go on ski trips together and often spent our long 20+ hour trips talking about these issues and sharing our respective research and insights.

Many years ago - before Dr. Harley (Willard, not Steven) founded MB, he used to be a psychologist here in MN. I had seen him a few times for purposes of personality assessment to better understand myself. This was before my marriage. I learned quite a bit about myself and what makes me tick. I've spent lots of time lately revisiting some of those early insights and ideas - and asking myself how much of the old me is still there.

I've also delved into lots of relationship books, especially concerning boundaries and more recently, narcissism. Trying to understand the issues in my M, and why I was so unable to make anthing work.

Biology helps too. I can't discount the effect of aging on my body and how that has made me pay attention to things I never used to. And wonder what it means for my future.

OK, I'm an academic nerd. What can I say?

Well, I new to this post but I am in the same boat, I'm not divorced yet but been separated for a while, husband moved back last year after he had a heart bypass, but after his recuperation was still seeing OW but said nothing was going on she had a problem and she needed him to help her. He moved to his own place and we "still dated" and tried to work thinks out, I still have a problem with trust, so I told him I was very cautious about us moving back together again. Then he went on a trip and I saw his car parked at her house. He had some excuse. I feel like a fool now for keep hoping that things would change, I don't have anyone to talk to because they would think I am a fool. I have finally told him I can take it anymore and not to call, we only need to talk if is is about our 16 year old daughter. We have been married for 31 years, the OW has been the picture since 2000 off and on. How can I get this man out of my system. I have know him since I was 12 years old. I am so lost.

I read this post earlier tonight. I went to bed about an hour ago but woke up thinking about it. What BS doesn't frequently wake up the middle of the night thinking about their marriage?

I have been married for 28 years. I've known my WH since I was 18. It's been a long time, a life time.

Sometimes, I wonder if I've ever known the man. I look at our history and wonder what was true, what was real. I don't try to rewrite our history, I just try to analyse it from a different angle. I believe that my WH has made his A, an exit A. I wonder why he married me. I wonder what part of his Catholic guilt made him stick it out so long. What made him get and stay involved with a woman who is marginally younger than me, shorter, fatter, with bad hair and horrid morals? Honestly, they cheat on each other...

At some point, I'd like to ask him these questions. Of course, it could be years before we can reach that point. In retrospect, I believe that he has cheated on me before; possibly several times. The signs were there but I didn't want to see them. No woman, especially a SAHM with 3 small children wants to see things like that. What's underneath all the layers of the man that is/was my husband? Has this all just been an exercise in conflict avoidance? What was the basis of our life? When, exactly, did he check out?

I do not regret any part of my life. I have not wasted my youth or anything else on him. We have great kids, not that he took much part in that. Due to his monetary contribution, I was able to stay home and raise them. I think they'd be very different people if I hadn't been able to do that. I have been able to be the central influence in their lives and a contributor to the community. During our marriage, we've traveled a great deal. I've had a lot of wonderful experiences. I'm a deeper, richer, more interesting person for the things that have happened during my marriage. All of that is still within me, even if he isn't a part of my life.

WH has chosen poorly. Perhaps he thinks the path he is on is the one for him. Perhaps its all midlife crisis and sexual addiction. It's come at a huge cost. Maybe someday in the distant future, his kids will be able to have a relationship with him. Maybe going to bars, being alone, work and sporatic visits with OW are all he is capable of.

I don't feel particularly old or rickety or at the end of the line. The past year has hurt but I've become different and stronger. Even if by some strange machination, my WH mutated back into my H, our marriage would not be the same. I miss his companionship and our life but there are many other things I don't miss: laundry, lies, opinions about dinner, complaints about the house, workaholic habits, and all the excuses for not being able to be a part of the family.

I look forward to the possibilities that life holds. My kids and I are closer than ever. My Inlaws are supportive. Even my dogs are more protective. I have started a job that I really like. I will travel to places where I want to travel and travel in the way I want. I won't be with a man who complains that there isn't enough shade on a beach when I want to play in the lovely waves or the hotel isn't right. Or feel the pull to be a slave to a job. There are so many wonderful things to do in life.

It's been a tough year but I am definitely moving on. Maybe now that this is off my chest, I can go back to sleep.

Grapegirl,
Your story is a mirror image to what my EXWW has done to our family and I too have struggled to understand how she manages to rationalize her exit A. She was the SAHM until just a serveral years ago when our children entered High school. She too is Catholic and I had been with her for 28 years since we were high school sweethearts.
After returning to work and with our oldest DD moving out during her final year of college she started her A with a co-worker who was 2 years old when we began dating. She has never looked back since D-Day. DD's comment to her mother upon learning of the A was to say " I should be dating him mom not you". Six months later and the R between them is still going strong. It continues even though our children refuse to be around him, her family will not associate with him and most of her friends do not wish to be around the guy.
I have struggled immensely to put some sort of logic to this and its just not a logical issue. Emotions and perceptions are the issue and no amount of logic can change the situation. I have worn out friends and relatives searching for answers and support. Moving on has proven to be a difficult task even with AD's and IC.
I have many interests and have immersed myself in all of them and it helps but still I too wake up in the middle of the night and dwell on what could have been and what feels missing in my life. I have been told that recovery will be so many months for each year of marriage and that frightens me as much as anything. Have you found that reading the posts here at least give you some comfort that your situation is not unique and others are dealing with the same problems? I have, and on some days it does help and on others it only makes you feel that you aren't really recovering only dwelling more.
I wish you all the luck in the world and if you find something that helps speed your recovery please let me know so I can try it too.