Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,186
A
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,186
I have just sent this to all the major News Networks as well as 4 national newspapers. It's a horrible tragedy what's happened to the poor folks on the Gulf Coast. This is an inspiration I had earlier today while watching the newscasts on it. It's just so sad. If you agree with me, please feel free to copy this and sent it out to everyone in your EMail address book - it is my hope that somehow, President Bush gets a copy of this in his hands and takes some action.
Sincerely, Harold Thornburg
-------------------------------------------------------
An Open Letter To President Bush - Dear Mr. President. As you well know, we - the US of A - have just experienced the worst DISASTER in our Nation's history. Worse than 9-11 (and that was bad enough) even. We now have a terrible CRISIS on our hands - in OUR OWN LAND now. It is going to be up to US - as it ALWAYS is - to take care of this our ownselves. No other country in this world is going to help us - as they never have in the past and I don't look to them to do anything different this time either. I've been watching the news footage of this tragedy, as I'm sure you have too.
Mr. President - the folks in the devastated areas of Southern Louisiana, Alabama and Mississippi NOW need our help far more than Iraq, Bosnia, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Afghanistan, Macedonia, South Korea, Guam, Africa, Japan, the Philippines, and all the other places that we currently have our Armed Forces deployed to 'help' and 'rebuild the infrastructure' 'keep the peace' etc.
I say it is very unpatriotic and cold-hearted to put our Foreign Aid program ahead of these suffering Americans in the South - in our own country. It is time to supplement the National Guard and Active Duty Armed Forces serving in the hurricane-devastated areas with Armed Forces pulled from these other places where they are serving all over the world. The CRISIS in our own country is NOW a lot worse than the ones these other countries are undergoing. These are countries that have spit on Americans, burned our Flag, cursed us, called us infidels, and countless other names, showing that while their governments might appreciate the BILLIONS of American Dollars we've spent over there and continue to spend - their general population does not.
What's the Bottom Line here, Mr. President? BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW - along with the billions of Dollars we're spending over there - and use it on the hurricane victims in our own country! Will you do it? Or are you going to hide behind some 'official explanation' of how we still need to help our 'partners in peace' etc.?
I am not just some citizen talking out of my butt - I served 9 years in the Army - Active Duty, mind you - and I served during Operations Desert Shield & Desert Storm. I was there for JTF Support Hope for the Hutus and Tutsis in 1994. I was among the first to go to Hungary for Operation Joint Endeavor. My son is currently in Iraq with the Marine Corps on his third Tour Of Duty there - in 2 years. He returns next month. So we as a Family know about serving our country with pride.
The ball is in YOUR court now, Mr. President. I am asking you as a citizen who loves America to do something about this - bring our Military home to help OUR OWN! I have put my name on the end of this because I am not some nameless person who is afraid to say who I am. I am a Disabled Veteran who is proud to have served the greatest nation on this Earth and who would not hesitate to do it again - knowing I would become disabled because of my Military Service - I would do it again. God bless America!
Thank you, Harold Thornburg - Texas.


Alzbeta Madragana.. I'm back... Real name is 'Harold'; however, I use the AMD one for online identity... I guess I popped back in to MB just to see what's happened in the 5 plus years I've been away..........................
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,083
K
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,083
I read this last night and pondered what you have said.

I wonder why we must always wait to mobilize the Army or other military personnel to "save" us.

Harold, I would challenge you, disabled veteran that you are, to match my father, a WWII veteran - back in 1993 - when he was in his 70s, he left his comfort zone on the farm in Utah, and traveled to St. Louis, where his hard-working soul shovelled out debris from the flooding of the Missouri and Mississippi creating the Lower Great Lake back in that year. He was part of an army of good citizens who reclaimed that territory from the floods and gave people back their homes. They were organized; they knew what they had to do - and just because he was old, he did not shirk from helping as he could.

So use your compassion to motivate and mobilize yourself and others to the cause. Just because there's a flood in New Orleans, Boloxi, and other parts of the South, doesn't mean the cause for which your son is fighting is null and void.

The fight for freedom goes on. And it's time for citizens to join in the reclamation!


Cafe Plan B link http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2182650&page=1

The ? that made recovery possible: "Which lovebuster do I do the most that hurts the worst"?

The statement that signaled my personal recovery and the turning point in our marriage recovery: "I don't need to be married that badly!"

If you're interested in saving your relationship, you'll work on it when it's convenient. If you're committed, you'll accept no excuses.
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,892
C
Member
Offline
Member
C
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,892
Kayla,

BRAVO


Divorced:
"Never shelter anyone from the realities of their decisions": Noodle

You believe easily what you hope for ernestly

Infidelity does not kill marriages, the lying does
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 676
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 676
I agree with Kayla----we are now gonna have to get off out fat butts and help our brothers and sisters.

Life is hard everywhere and we each have to search our souls for our part.

TW


D-day 4/01 for WH ( who also abuses alcohol). Married 34 years. Separated 9/01. WS moved back 5/02 to work on M but unwilling to let OW go. I moved out of our home (which I waited 25 yrs for) on 11/02. Legally separated, trying to make the decision to divorce now. OW is gone and WH sees all as a huge mistake but still drinking.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,186
A
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,186
Kayla, please do let your Father know from one Vet to another.. 'Thank you, Sir, for your service to our Country during WW 2.' So many vets are unappreciated for their time in the Military - especially during times of war. And a 70 year old helping shovel dirt on the river - that is dedication!
You're right - and I do hope that more help does arrive down there.
TDL


Alzbeta Madragana.. I'm back... Real name is 'Harold'; however, I use the AMD one for online identity... I guess I popped back in to MB just to see what's happened in the 5 plus years I've been away..........................
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,083
K
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 4,083
Thank you TDL - I will pass your message to him. Likewise, thank you to you for your service and sacrifice through some very troubling times for the world!

And knowing our good hearted country people like I do, I know that help of all kinds is on its way.


Cafe Plan B link http://forum.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2182650&page=1

The ? that made recovery possible: "Which lovebuster do I do the most that hurts the worst"?

The statement that signaled my personal recovery and the turning point in our marriage recovery: "I don't need to be married that badly!"

If you're interested in saving your relationship, you'll work on it when it's convenient. If you're committed, you'll accept no excuses.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,186
A
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,186
You're most welcome. Thank you for your kind words.
TDL


Alzbeta Madragana.. I'm back... Real name is 'Harold'; however, I use the AMD one for online identity... I guess I popped back in to MB just to see what's happened in the 5 plus years I've been away..........................
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 550
E
Member
Offline
Member
E
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 550
You know it's pretty sad to see how all this is unfolding....

This is the statement from FEMA on Monday morning Aug 29th as the storm was coming on land. Today is Friday Sept 2nd and we aren't even halfway there yet, pretty much still in the same place.....It's really sad but my concern now is the greater storm coming from all Americans of how it's own Gov't betrayed it's citizens....I'm not a gov't basher or into politics, but this is the most disgraceful act to humanity I've ever seen.

***************

7:08 a.m.: FEMA Chief Praises New Orleans Officials
The head of the Federal Emergency Management Agency says the government has known for a long time how vulnerable New Orleans would be in a major hurricane like Katrina. Michael Brown says Louisiana went through a table-top drill a year ago and is doing a good job responding right now. He also tells NBC the government is preparing supplies and response teams to move wherever Gulf state governors need them once the weather allows. -- Associated Press

Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 840
P
Member
Offline
Member
P
Joined: Nov 1999
Posts: 840
Quote
It is going to be up to US - as it ALWAYS is - to take care of this our ownselves. No other country in this world is going to help us - as they never have in the past and I don't look to them to do anything different this time either.


I have to take offence to this statement. I am from Canada and know for a fact that we have offered our assistance from an official standpoint and have received a "thanks but no thanks for now answer". We have prepared several units in search and rescue and are awaiting the call for our assistance. I just now saw a report from the UN offering any assistance that may be necessary.
I know for a fact that a private specialized search and rescue unit from Vancouver Canada has already arrived in New Orleans.
As far as assistance in the past let me remind you that during the terrorist attacks in 2001 Canada received all the flights that could not land in the USA as well as housed hundreds of our neighbours to the south when they found themselves in Canada with no place to go. We sent police officers and firefighters to assist in efforts at ground zero.

As I watch the events in the Gulf coast unfold I am saddened emmensely by the devestation that has befallen these people. Maybe it's time for President Bush to reach out his hand and accept the help that has been offered by Canada, the UN and other nations around the world.

I am truly sorry if my statements have offened anyone. I was just hoping to clarify something.


Love and Prayers
Nicole
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 353
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 353
The Kingdom of the Netherlands has their dike system better planned out, and better re-inforced, compared to Lake Pontchartrain, since their floods in 1953.

The flooding of Lake Pontchartrain with sea water, and the subsequent overflow of Lake Ponecetrain into New Orleans, is a failure of an Elected Government to plan for preditable storm damage. Bush's Plan to demonstrate that Democracy is best for ALL, seems to have hit a speed bump.

Could Prosperity for ALL be a better concept? Democracy sure seems broken in New Orleans.

Ideas?

Last edited by Senator_H; 09/05/05 07:00 PM.
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,186
A
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,186
I am very happy to say that "Geez, I was wrong about our neighbour to the North, Canada." My apologies on my error. Canada DID help us during 9-11 (but our news stations didn't cover that fact) - however, they have reported as of today (Friday) that a good number of nations have offered help - and of course Canada is at the top of the list.
I'm heartened by this news. What can I say to these nations?
THANK YOU! Thank you so much!
Sincerely,
TDL
(I'm still pi$$ed at Prez. Bush though) He was WRONG on this call - they should have had assets moving the day after the storm - I'm like, DUH! 140MPH plus winds, 40 foot storm surge, and you don't think there's going to be much damage? Where did you come from anyway??!
At least though, he came BACK FROM HIS VACATION at the Ranch and got to work where he is supposed to be working - at the White House.
DOH!


Alzbeta Madragana.. I'm back... Real name is 'Harold'; however, I use the AMD one for online identity... I guess I popped back in to MB just to see what's happened in the 5 plus years I've been away..........................
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 550
E
Member
Offline
Member
E
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 550
I still can't believe this, here we are 6 days later and 5,000 trapped on I-10 with no food or water. I can't understand what's so hard to drop food and water to these people. The media flys right over them but nobody helps...

This is going to cause an American Revolution (meaning great change) National tragedy brings out the good and bad in people. 9/11 was one change and it woke us up. This hurricane is the thing that's going to change us in everyway. As of Monday, our nation will never be the same.

I see lot's of good coming out of this because this hurricane is unveiling the heart of America good and bad.

People will not be able to just make a one-time donation and then go about there business, like when things hit a foriegn country. This is on our land. People will have to make a long term commitment to help the victims that come to your cities otherwise the cities will only increase in crime and develop ghetto's, leaving the people no where to go....

Marriages have been destroyed
Families have been seperated
We have orphans
Deaths have happened
Murderers, Thugs, Rapiest, Child molesters, all kinds of criminals are now disburst in all cities (Both Black and White).
Churches destoyed
Businesses destroyed..

So from this hurricane we have all mix of classes of people, middle class, poor, White, Black, etc... A lot of those people who got stranded are normal people who lived paycheck to paycheck like 70% of most Americans and the hurricane just happen to come in between paychecks when they had little money as they got close to payday, yet they're calling them poor for not being able to leave. Many of those people have college degree's, don't be decieved by the Media that though if all these people are dirt poor trying to get free ride and a gov't hand out. They're just like anyone else who lost everything.

I hate to say this but this is why President Bush delayed his actions (His approach was, let me go see if these people are really hurting, of course 5 days later). That's a true sign of somebody that has turned a deaf ear and has blind eyes to the suffering of the people. I've lost my support for Bush. I respect him as a person but not as a leader, true leadership don't do those things. I pray for him because it's tough but at some time you have to draw the line and not go into the pit.

Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,186
A
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,186
"I hate to say this but this is why President Bush delayed his actions (His approach was, let me go see if these people are really hurting, of course 5 days later). That's a true sign of somebody that has turned a deaf ear and has blind eyes to the suffering of the people. I've lost my support for Bush. I respect him as a person but not as a leader, true leadership don't do those things. I pray for him because it's tough but at some time you have to draw the line and not go into the pit."
I hear you, coz I feel the same way. Bush has problems and he's been BLIND to the cries for help from our South Gulf Coast. Texas (my home State) has 100,000 new residents. Dallas (not too far from where I live) has around 8,000 new residents. I live in Granbury - we have several new families here - and today the Red Cross was out in front of Wally-Mart taking a MASSIVE amount of physical donations - clothes, food, etc. - God bless the Red Cross! And we're a small retirement community on top of that.
May God have mercy on the poor suffering folks who've lost so much from this disaster and us as a Nation who are trying to help them...
TDL


Alzbeta Madragana.. I'm back... Real name is 'Harold'; however, I use the AMD one for online identity... I guess I popped back in to MB just to see what's happened in the 5 plus years I've been away..........................
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,186
A
Member
OP Offline
Member
A
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,186
I'll add this - I still can't forget Mr. Jackson - MSNBC interviewed him that first day - he was wandering the streets lost - said he lost his wife when their house split apart - he was holding her hand as the floodwaters ripped them away from each other - he knows she's dead; he is a Grandfather. Absolutely heartbreaking. Has anyone seen him since, and does anyone know if he's been taken care of, is he OK? How about his kids and grandkids? And he's only one of so many thousands, but he stands out in my mind most clearly...
TDL


Alzbeta Madragana.. I'm back... Real name is 'Harold'; however, I use the AMD one for online identity... I guess I popped back in to MB just to see what's happened in the 5 plus years I've been away..........................
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 750
J
jph Offline
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 750
Senator H...well it looks as if Hillary has found Marriage Builders...and is even speaking of "dykes"...if it weren't so pathetic maybe I could see the humor...

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 353
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 353
Dear JPH,

So You feel the OMB and the Army Corps of Engineers did a good job presenting Category 5 plans to Congress? Did a good job planning to avoid a reasonably predictable disaster? Please explain.

So you feel that the Large amount of rain associated with Katrina had nothing to do with the Greenhouse Effect from Global Warming? You think Bush is still right to ignore the rest of the worlds' plea for Keyoto Protocol to address Global Warming? Global warming also meeans higher humidity and bigger rain squals.

The real failure in New Oreleans was that tap water was no longer avaiable. Or if available, had to be boiled to drink. It should have been announced clearly, Before Katrina Hit, that there will be no water to drink. It was not clear to many poor and elderly people why they should have left before the Hurricaine, or for several days after Katrina. The key reason to evacuate New Oreleans was because tap water was not availble for drinking.

The Governent is still not communicating what the real problem is in New Oreleans. It is rather difficult to properly take care of children, or anyone, if there is no water to drink. Food stores need electricity to keep food fresh, and operate cash registers. The Goverenment should have announced clearly, before the hurricaine, that there will probably be no water, and no electricity for several weeks, probably several months, so you need to get out.

I feel the news media, and government officials, could have better communicated the dire effects on health that would likely result from Katrina, so people could have been properly informed and made better decisions to make more concerted efforts to leave. New Oreleans residents did not receive an acurate picture of the probable conditions in the days following Katrina. Many New Oreleans Residents who stayed in the city could have made better efforts to get out of town sooner.

Hillarey has mostly just been holding her tounge, the way I see her.

Blessings

Last edited by Senator_H; 09/05/05 06:33 PM.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 750
J
jph Offline
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 750
global warming my [censored]..that's a bunch of hogwash you've bought hook, line and sinker... Any credible scientist will tell you that the fluctuations in the world's temperature has not changed. For example, I live in the south and we had only 5 days this summer where the temperature was over 95. Quite rare.

I don't know how much clearer the message to leave could have been. I could understand your reasoning if a majority of NO residents remained. I watched the news as well as the weather channel and listened to those in my community discuss the pending disaster, explain to me being hundreds of miles away, I got the message.

Were you there warning these residents of the coming disaster? No? Then aren't you as guilty. It's so easy to lay blame on the back end of a disaster and I would be willing to be sympathetic to your objections if you had played a part in informing government officials of the problems with the dikes and you had been in NO warning the residents that for several weeks they would have a poor chance of survival if they chose to remain.

Lay blame where you may but before you point that finger at others realize that four are pointed back at you.

All liberals are the same. They talk the same rhetoric that their leaders spoon feed them. Think for yourself. Investigate global warming and what scientist say about the matter. NO has a disproportionate amount of poor. What has created that vast amount of poor citizens..goverment handouts. It does nothing but create dependent people whose ambition and ability to do for themselves is stimied. It's cruelty and we now see the fruit of that insanity. Instead of government running people's lives for them, our country would be much better off if we taught our citizens to run their own lives. But Hillary and those that follow the same idiotology want to decide for others what is right. It's the same old song..if something goes wrong blame it on the government-that is if a certain group is in office.

By the way...the key reason to evacuate New Orleans was a hurricane was coming...

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 353
S
Member
Offline
Member
S
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 353
Dear JPH,

I suggest that you check your dewpoint temperatures. The dewpoint temperatures in the Washington, DC area have been running higher than normal, although the dry bulb temperature, on weather reports, is not unusual. The Dewpoint is what indicates the humidity. The Dewpoint temperatures are available in every US city through NOAA, every hour. Dewpoint Temperature forecasts are also available on some weather forecasting websites.

Maybe groups like the NO Chamber of Commerce, or other businesses could have done more to advocate the increased protection with a better funded levy system. As I usnderstand the failure of the levies, the damage was more from the large amount of water on the back side of the levies, rather than a weakness in the containment side of the levies.

I saw a shot of 150 NO busses in axel-deep water. There should have been a plan to get the busses to higher ground staging areas, to take the people to at leaset safe drinking water. Every neighborhood should have had a designated area, accessible to a highway, that was well above sea level, as a staging area for bus pick up.

The thinking of conservatives is to put poor and challenged people in jail, and they will magically turn into good people. The conservatives forget that most people are going to be coming out of jail, and the Conservatives don't have a clue about human fraility, struggle, and self-improvment.

The Conservatives are losing the war in Iraq because they don't know how to build cells for prospertiy. The Islamic militants are building more cells for fighting the Tyrany of the West, than the US is building support for Democracy with Iraqui business interests.

The Conservataives think that criminal records are good, because that means they can get cheaper labor. Coservatives are against Abortion, because they see any undeveloped egg in a woman, as a lost, low-wage worker. The only good woman to a conservative, is a pregnant woman.

You are correct that the Liberals take the attitude of solving the problem of the poor or challenged, by throwing money at it, to cover it up. Katrina pulled the covers off that charade rather vividly. Yes?

Thanks for correcting my spelling of Dikes. I should have been more sensitive.

Betweent the Blind expectations of Conservatives and the do-nothing programs of the Liberals, it is a wonder that anything in the US works.

Last edited by Senator_H; 09/06/05 10:32 PM.
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 750
J
jph Offline
Member
Offline
Member
J
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 750
People are against abortion because killing the innocent is wrong.

I don't know what cartoon you got the notion that conservatives think a criminal record parlays into cheap labor or putting the poor in jail is in any "conservative" agenda. That's ridiculous... All people who can care for themselves should be encouraged to do so.

"The only good woman to a conservative is a pregnant woman." I think you need to see a doctor as obviously you have serious brain damage. I had to laugh out loud at that one...

Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 8,079
T
Member
Offline
Member
T
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 8,079
I guess I see this from a TOTALLY different perspective than most everyone here.

I don't see it as a Failure of the President, but as a FAILURE of the so called Leaders in La., They had an emergency evacuation plan in place, they choose to ignore it.

They were supposed to USE ALL Of their Mass Transit Busses and their school busses to evacuate people--THE MAYOR failed to do that. Those were left sitting idle.

Our Government is NOT a Socialist Government where the Federal Government is in charge of the STATES, His MAIN job is Foreign Affairs. It is a DUEL Federalism , where the STATES ELECTED LEADERS are in charge of the State.

I'd have to ask those who live up north if there is an ice storm or Blizzard; is it going to be the president your going to be calling to put sand on your roads? Or to help with clearing snowbanks? Or will it be your state and local officials you will be calling on?

The Federal Government is to ASSIST the State Government, not TAKE over FOR the State Government.

if it is the Presidents Job to handle ALL of these things, or even the Federal Governments JOB to handle all of these things WHY oh WHY do we even bother voting for State Officials??


Simul Justus Et Peccator
“Righteous and at the same time a sinner.”
(Martin Luther)

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 671 guests, and 57 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Bibbyryan860, Ian T, SadNewYorker, Jay Handlooms, GrenHeil
71,838 Registered Users
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2019, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5