I have a serious question for everybody, BS and (F)WS...

I am a BS. My W had a 8 week A with someone whom I thought was a friend. During the A, my W made me believe that she was wanting to D me due to my past behavior during our 12yr M.

We had a married couple whom we were aquaintences (sp?) with that my W began to confide in during her A. I confided in the husband out of convenience and an assumption of some sort of friendship.

During the A, while I was being led to believe W had just finally had it with my behavior, the couple routinely assured me that they were my best allies to prevent W from divorcing me. The wife was previously divorced and did not have custody of her kids, and said she continually told my W not to get a D, to try to work it out.

Well, after I discovered the A, I also found out that the GF knew about the A and would actually watch my kids for my W during the day so that my W could go see OM on his lunch break. GF also knew that the A was an PA and that was what was going on during the lunch break visits.

Right after d-day I said that one of my conditions was a NC with that GF as well as OM. W was initially very resistant to NC with GF. After talking to two pastors, and anyone else whom I said we could both agree had morals, all of whom agreed it was a reasonable demand by me, W agreed to taper the friendship down over several weeks and end contact.

For the first 2 weeks or so W did this. Now, 8 1/2 weeks post d-day, she continues to talk with GF on the phone, and also goes over to GF house a few times a week. The frequency of phone calls and talking has actually increased over the last few weeks.

One other piece of info concerning GF..... last Wednesday I called W around 1140hrs. W said she was taking our daughter (2yrs) to a park that just happens to be in another town, past several other parks, and right by the interstate. I was very suspicious since she had used this same cover to see OM during A.


I called W again at 1300hrs and W told me she was in our driveway loading up daughter to go get our boys from school. I could tell that she was not outside nor in a car. I also heard another childs voice in the background. I asked her twice where she was until she finally admitted that she was at GF's house and lied because she knew I would be mad. I do not know if she left my daughter with GF or not.

I called OMW, who ironically was also very curious that day. She knew that it was my sons' first day back in school. She had went to OM's work and tailed him as he left for lunch at 1130hrs. He got on the interstate and drove, you guessed it, to the town where my wife said she went to the park at. OMW said she lost OM on the interstate. She called him by cell and he told her he was at such and such near where he worked. She said she had just followed him on the interstate and he was not where he said he was. He made up a few more lies, then finally said "You caught me in a lie". OMW said asked why he would lie. OM said "because you caught me doing something I shouldn't have been doing". OMW demanded to know where he was. He would not tell her. They played phone tag back and forth for a few more calls until he met her somewhere.

My W wants me to believe that this is purely coincidence. Unfortunately, since I know that she is dishonest, I cannot believe a word she says.

Now to the question I need answered......

Am I being unreasonable to have as one of my conditions a NC with the GF?

W says I cannot make demands of her and control who she can and cannot be friends with. I point out that I know this, I am only stating what conditions must exist for me to even attempt to reconcile with a W who proved to be dishonest, immoral, lacking in character, and deceitful.

TiredDad, you cannot make her do anything, but you can set protective boundaries for yourself as a condition of reconciliation.

I would be more concerned right now about a resumption of the affair with the OM. It sounds to me that it is not really over. I suspect that when she truly gives up on the affair and commits to the marriage, she will draw further away from the GF who helped her be her most sleazy. She will eventually realize that this isn't a "friend" at all and dump her because she associates her with bad things.

In short, this isn't a hill I would die on if I were you because I think she will dump this creepy gf eventually.[using the term "friend" loosely here] I would focus instead on attracting your W back into the marriage and ensuring the affair is truly ended.

TD,

As a BS you have the moral right to demand NC with the GF. Unfortunately the problem is really with your lying WW.

Unfortunately, your WW is still in an on-going affair. The problems with this GF take a backseat to the issues of your marriage. Any and all demands you make now just feed into the Wayward Spouse's justifications and rationalizations. The old "Look how controlling TD is".

GF is misbehaving by supporting your WW in her affair but GF may just be a dupe to your wife's manipulation. GF and GF's husband may have all along supported you. Wayward Spouse's have a mind of their own. They are very determined to get their fix and will lie/cheat and steal to get it. You should have a sit down with GF and find out where they stand. Express your thoughts that when all is said and done that you beleive a continuing friendship with them is counter-productive to your marriage. You may be suprised by their response. GF's husband may be appalled at his wife's behavior too and forbid it from here on out.

If GF is to go. Let that be a joint marital decision later in recovery. She may be actually receptive to your opinions then. Right now, you've got bigger fish to fry.

Good luck, Mr. Wondering

First, I made an error in my post. We are 4 1/2 weeks post d-day, not 8 weeks.

W adamantly says the incident last week was coincidence. I have no proof as to otherwise and have no other indication contact with OM is still occurring.

I really want to be able to believe W, as my heart still wants a reconciliation.

The lie last Wednesday really set me back emotionally.

I just have so many unanswered questions and feel so mixed up.

TD,

I can relate to your concern of your WW's GF. My WW has a friend who has been againt us being married since we met them as a couple 6 years ago. We used to hag out together as couples go on Vacations together and GF's H and I were very close hunting, fishing, camping and Snowmobiling together regularly. About 1 1/2 years ago, I started to see the manipulation that the GF was doing to me and my WW. She clearly told both of us seperately that we shouldn't be married that we bring out the worst in each other etc...I can only assume that there is some sort of jealousy thing with her. GF's H was always neutral, until I had my affair and gave GF the amunition she needed. GF stands in the way of recovery from the stand point of encouraging and enabling my WW. GF's H although staying neutral and telling me that this just needs to work itself out over time, still stands behind his wife. I don't talk to them anymore as they have proven themselves to be 2 faced. When my WW was moving towards ending the A and reconciliation she stopped talking to my WW and made her feel very guilty. It can cause a lot of confusion pain etc...but there is nothing we can do about it until the A has ended and there is a True commitment to recovery (NC etc...)when that happens I believe my WW will not want the so called friendship either. What kind of friend encourages you and continues to talk you into hurting your family and destroying your childrens life. All part of the fog I guess.

R.

W adamantly says the incident last week was coincidence.
Uh, yeah and your check is in the mail.
REALLY!

If this was me I would address it a two seperate task...

task 1

Inform my wife of the gross amount of disrespect she shows you your spouse by maintaining contact with someone who shows so little support and respect for matrimonial vows...
that we as a society are called to support other peoples marraiges and do no harm in actions that undermine that union.
and that YOU as a man have no tolerance or acceptance for that type of person in YOUR marriage...and such persons are not NOW nor ever welcome in to your home and can and will be only viewed as terroristic interlopers....

and that while you understand that you can not and will not tell your wife what she should do..she should be very very clear on the fact that you will view her actions of contact with such persons as a direct statement against your marriage....

THEN
I would go to this lady friend and tell her the EXACT same thing...and that she is not welcome in your home that you consider her a direct threat to the well being of your children and that NO ONE will have your permission ever to undermine their well being....

state your boundary to your wife AND to the friend....
and let her decide..
then you must decide as well...

ARK

TD,

I agree. Any "friend" that is not encouraging to your marriage, can help destroy it. Especially partners in crime. It sounds like she is going to do what she wants though. And expressing your anger about anything right now may have ill effects.

I've been following your story. She is deep, deep in the fog. She is addicted to the OP. Addicted. She may have tried NC the first week of exposure, but withdrawal can be EXTREMELY painful. And I'm sure as a BS you don't give a rip about her pain. You have your own pain. Rightly so. It feels worse than a death, and it feels like you are going to die. Be assured that the rollercoaster eventually levels out.

If you feel you have already tried Plan A, it may be time to consider Plan B. I found the folling from another post:

When Plan B works, it works precisely BECAUSE the WS is driven into the arms of the OP. Now, the WS has to depend entirely upon the OP to meet all their needs. Now that the A is no longer a delicious secret, they have to deal with all of “real life”—bills, and kids and everything. When the A was a secret, the WS thought it was going to be “heaven” to be with the OP. In real life, the kids are hurt and angry and don’t like the OP at all!! In real life, the OP doesn’t provide the big house and new car that the WS has learned to enjoy. In real life, they start to argue over bills and having to live in an apartment. In real life, the OP has to go to work and isn’t always around to whisper sweet nothings. In real life, the OP is a cheater, and starts to see someone on the side—cheating on your WS –or- the OP didn’t really want to leave his or her M for your WS, they just wanted to continue the secret.

I don't think this is an unreasonable 'boundry' to set. Boundries should never be established in the form of a demand though.

Your above statement is a demand and a threat IMO. "Meet my conditions or else!" Or else what? This will only push her further away from you.

You keep holding the threat of divorce over her head and it's getting you nowhere. You keep threatening that you won't try to reconcile unless...

What you don't understand is that her brain is in such a fog that she could care less about the marriage right now. Her affair is all that matters to her. In her mind, the affair is justified.

The efforts that you demand that she put into restoring the marriage are being put into keeping the affair alive and well...even after exposure.

Right now, you don't measure up to the OM...not in your WW's eyes. What are YOU doing to change that?