Hey all. So after 5 mos of recovery at this point since DD#2/3/4 or whatever it was, and almost 6 mos of NC between my H and xOW, I called the hospital 2 weeks ago where he figured she would be having the baby (if she was still pg) around the time we figured she would be going in for a c-section. I was only TRYING to find out if by chance she was there. I asked for her room number. They rang her room and she answered! I didn't want to hang up, so I told her who I was and she was too shocked to hang up on me or be rude. I found out she had a girl and the name. I asked how she was doing, when she was going home etc, told her I knew it was awkward but had been wondering how things were going. She asked how I knew she was there and I told her the truth, that I just guessed.

We think she is still married, don't know if she filed but it would have been after conception, but we think they are separated. They have 3 children under age 5 together (her and her H) and now a probably OC by my H, although paternity test would need to prove that.

My question is, because we have read SO MUCH conflicting information about my H's rights (or lack thereof) and what may or may not be able to happen, IF she names her H on the birth cert I understand my H has no rights or responsibility. If she names no one, which I believe is also a choice I have been told she has, then she would have to go to court to add my H? We don't know if that can be done by law since she is married.

We are just trying to find out what to expect here.

I live in the State of Michigan. You are correct that in MI a child born in wedlock is presumed to be a product of the marriage.

Our situation was different from yours, so I'm not sure I can be of any help. The OW was single. My xWS and I were married at the time the OC was born. My xWS was named as the father on the birth certificate. DNA testing at a later date proved it to be true.

I'm no attorney but I think that you can name anyone as the father on a birth certificate. If married, however, the OW's husband would automatically have legal rights to custody, and an obligation to provide child support. If DNA testing is sought and shows the husband to not be the father...and the OM to be the father..I believe this information can be changed on a birth certificate. Child support can be sought from the OC's father, and he would have visitation rights, too.

If no one protests the paternity of the child, the OW's husband would be seen as the legal father of the OC. If a divorce were to occur, this child would be considered the OWH's, and would be included in child support and visitations.

I could be wrong about changing the name on the birth certificate, but I think that it's accurate.

All these legalities on top of the emotional crap we go through can seem so overwhelming at times! I wish you the best!

In most states the husbnad is presumeed to be the father, but! that does not mean that she has to put him as the father. She can also petition the court for paternity.

My situation, I was/am seperated from stbxh and when I became pregant I was not going to put this on husband. Make him responsbile.

In my state (and thought it was national) you can't put any other man than a husband on bc unless you have a AOP and or DNA testing. She can however give the child any last name she wants.

As the state sees it, her H is the father. I believe the only people who can rebutt that fact are her and/or her H. Your H can try to contest paternity, but unless she and her H agree to it, he'd have to take it to court.



If you're not thinking of C, I'd lay low, and see what her and her H do. HOWEVER, I'd set money aside each month jic her and/or H want to contest paternity and seek CS.

Did she give you any hint at all as to which way she's going with this?

Also, you need to consult with a family law attorney to find out the exact laws of MI re your concerns.

I wish you guys well.

Thanks for the input everyone. I just had read so many different things about whether she ever COULD name my H or not as the father... we read some things that said she never could, because she was married at the time of conception.

We think her and her H are separated because my H say her H's van parked outside the apt he lived in when they were separated 6 months ago.

Thanks for your advice...

Ok my best friend is going through this in MI right as we speak. THEY can and if she is on welfare of any sort WILL ask for CS from the birth and confinement which is how much it cost for her to be hospitalized and have the baby.

No she cannot put your H on BC without his consent. She cannot even go after your H for cs TILL she gets a DIVORCE from her H. Her husband wether put on the BC or not can claim that child as his, since it was born to his legal wife. because right now he is LEGALLY the father until proven otherwise and only with a DNA test 99% or above.

NOW did you H ever go to MI? If not they would have to do an interstate thing because MI would not have any JURISDICTION over him at all. Make sure he stays the heck out of MI. What state did the conception take place in? you really do not have to answer I just need to know if it was MI, or can your H or anyone prove your H had residency in MI?

By the way if you call to consult with an attorney over the phone it is perfectly free... you can call MANY diff lawyers and ask each a diff question. Thats normally How I do it. then If I need one I pick my fav by the answers and strategy he laid out for me.

Here's a story for ya, though it won't help. But my sister lives in MI and her H at the time was in jail. She hadn't gotten D because he protested and in the meantime met her (now) H. At the time my sister and biological father were not married because of no D and the state would not allow her to put biological father on birth certificate, even though her H was in jail WAY before conception and after baby was born. bureucracy. I know none of you women would find yourself in such a crazy mess, but of course I thought of this when I heard your story.

I don't think she can put him on the BC w/o his consent. The best thing to do if your going to go N/C is just that. Don't call or anything. I wouldn't wait around for her to do anthing as far as the C/S and such. I mean if money is tight now, just think how tight it will be a year from now and she takes you to court??? If you want to go N/C then thats what I would do, but if it where me (just me) I would want to know if this child was mine, and do the right thing as far as the C/S issue. I wouldn't wait for her. If you want to go on with your life and your M, then do that and do everything LEGAL. Its just important to do this legally as when you are having C. I for one would want to protect my family and get it out of the way instead of it creeping back in a year from now!! KWIM. What if your H dies or something? I mean you can get it cleared up now instead of waiting is my thing. Why wait for her?? You have the right to go on with your life and wondering when the door is going to ring or the phone.
SUnny D

Sunny~ Get what cleared up? Ask the xow exactly what her plans are? There's really no problem with that, because it is an awful thing to wonder when and if the other shoe is going to drop.

What I'm saying though, is that NTL and her H might be disturbing a hornet's nest unnecessarily if they went after paternity. NTL's H at this point isn't responsible for the child at all in the eyes of the court. He can't even try to be recognized as the child's father without taking it to court, UNLESS xow/H agree to the paternity contest. If NTL's H WANTS to establish paternity and possibly seek C, and pay CS, that's one thing, but they're talking like they don't want that. I just don't think it makes sense to "fight" for something they don't want.

As it stands right now by virtue of the law, xow and her H hold all or most of the legal cards. They can contest the paternity "easily", whereas NTL's H cannot just come along and do it so easily. They may come after NTL's H, and they may not. If NTL & H are satisfied with xow's H being recognized as the father, (because that's how it is right now), I'd leave it alone, because it would be silly to fight an uphill battle for something they don't want in the first place.

I do still believe it's prudent to set aside CS though, because xow's M to her H sounds tenous at best. I cannot imagine her H wants to be the father and be held financially responsible for a baby who isn't his, esp if they D. You never know though, her H may love the baby no matter what and wants to be the father, whether the M survives or not.

~ad

Sitting aside the C/S is a great idea, but realisticly WHO is going to do it?? My thing is I would want to know and not be surprised years down the road. If your H thinks there may be a chance then can't HE ask for the DNA to be done?? How can you just wait til this comes around?? It may never come back around but look at the chances of that happening? I would be talking to an attorney and protecting your self NOW and down the road. Our C/S payments, add them up if she came back 5 years 36,000 not including the health care, day care ect. And thats based on TODAY's rates on C/S. I mean there is no telling what they could be 5 yrs down the road. OK, if she doesn't want anything, fine great get a paper signed and move on! Thats all I am saying. I dont recomend the C or the N/C issue to be handled w/o being legal either way. Get yourself covered and the less chances of surprises down the road.!
Sunny D
Sunny D

She can try to come back 5 years or even longer down the road, but if her H is the established father which he is by default UNLESS HE contests it, she will have a snowball's chance in he*l of nailing this on NTL's H very far down the road. In many states, past 2 years, (in a case where the the ow is M), it's nearly impossible to "switch" fathers on the child.

In my own situation, I've reached what I like to call the magical 2 year mark. After 2 years, it makes several things difficult. 1) In the case of a D, my H would have a very difficult time and very small chance trying to get out of CS for my OC that he has willingly fathered and bonded with. HOWEVER, by the same rule...2) In the case of a D, I would have a very difficult time and very small chance of getting sole custody of the baby, EVEN if I was able to get the court to order a DNA proving my H is not the biological father. To the courts, he is the father no matter what DNA says, especially now at this mark of 2 years. Most importantly, and why I call it magical is... 3) xom would have an extremely difficult time popping up right now and trying to interject himself by asking for/ fighting for DNA. And again, by that same rule, I would have a very difficult time going after the xom at this point in the road to try and make him responsible and be the father.

This is how much of the case law has gone down in my state in similar scenarios as I mentioned above, however from what I hear, MI case law isn't much different.

I could be mistaken, but I don't think the xow signing a statement saying she won't seek paternity from NTL's H would hold up IF xow's H were able to get out of paternity, because the courts will want someone to be held accountable as this child's father.

NTL, you really need to speak with a very good family law attorney. Like cord said, you can consult and ask questions for free.

As far as setting aside CS, I know it might not be very realistic for a long amount of time, BUT I believe you will have your answers very soon as to which way she's going to go on this. Either you'll ask, or she/her attorney will let you know. I'm sure she knows time is of the essence if she wants to try and prove your H's paternity.

Setting monthly CS aside for at least the months till paternity is established is something that is advised quite often to MM & BW's.

***edited to say: The current NC is ALREADY legal, because at this point in time, NTL's H has absolutely no rights to nor responsiblities for the child.***

Thanks for the input. As far as we have read, my H has NO rights to interject himself into their family situation at this point unless OW and her H want him to. Not any more than some man can come up to me and want to question the paternity of my kids. Just wondering as Cordelia and colddayinjuly are saying, we have read that she can NEVER put my H on the B/C in Michigan because she was married at the time of conception, REGARDLESS of whether she gets a D later or proves DNA w/ my H or anything. This is done, according to the website we read, to protect the family unit and the child from my H "interloping" in their family even if OW wants him to... just don't know for sure what all the case law is in MI.

So far OW has done NOTHING. Not a call, not a birth announcement in the mail (I'm shocked!), nothing but generic "baby" mail that we've been getting from mailing lists that she put us long ago... make no mistake, she has NOT moved on with her life though! It's just that my H has been SO thorough with No Contact. She tried to have a friend call his friend at work and ask for him the morning she was scheduled for her c-section, so I know she wanted him to be there. She is a STOW nightmare, for all who've been following all along with her lies about miscarriages and cancer, etc.

She WAS living with her H at the time, and my H and I were not separated. (I was unaware of the relapse at the time.)

OW is definitely far from on welfare, she makes $100k at her job... so the state won't be insisting on any testing.
My H has no right to instigate paternity proceedings, and no plans to. We feel the best thing for her family and ours is continued NC at this time.

She doesn't seem to get how other people see the situation.

Thanks all for your help & input!

Exactly. This is just one reason for this law. Protecting the family and the M. I know the law irritates a lot of people, but when you think of what could happen if the law wasn't in place--oh my! You're right--any man, for any reason could just come along and say, "hey, I'm the father of that baby", (though I can't imagine many men doing that).

I wish I knew more about MI law, as far as your BC concerns. Have you checked into a local Legal Aid where there wouldn't be a fee for attorney services?

I didn't know the 'stuff' about your xow. She could be a loose cannon, just waiting to go off, even though she's seemingly quiet now. You're very wise to be prepared for whatever may come your way. Please talk to an attorney, if for no other reason than to put your mind at ease. Knowledge is power and all that...

Wishing you both some peace.

~ad

Well I need to ask one thing does your husband make less money than she does?

If so it really would not be a good idea on her part to start anything... your H could easily get 50% custody and she would not really get much from him at all.

Yeah you can actually get that info from lansing if your want to email me I can tell you how to find out about the birth certificate.

NTL,

To clear it up for you, you are correct that her child being born in wedlock would be presumed by the courts to be her husbands. She and her H can do a paternity test though, and if the results show he is not the father he can petition the courts to be removed as the legal parent, which will be granted. However, there is a time limit which I believe is two years.

YES she most certainly CAN then name your H as the father and if it were proven he was, he would be responsible for support.
However your H can't petition the court to be named the father unless she or her H have previously petitioned to have her H removed.

Oh, and to clarify, in the state of Michigan you can't name a father on a bc without his consent. It is automatic, I think, if the parents are married, but if not a man must sign and Acknowledgment of Paternity in order for her to list him on the BC.

Hope that helps!!

Thanks everybody for your input.

Hey NTL, If I were you I'd enjoy your H and concentrate on your M. You never know what OW are going to do. She cannot put H on BC period w/o his knowledge, so that's not happened. It sounds like her H and her may be spearated and she could ask for DNA testing anytime within the next two years, but even with that it's likely you wouldn't be responsible for any CS until that test is done.

I don't live in Michigan, but we acknowledged OW's pregnancy right away through court (she's not M) and agreed to CS pending DNA testing. When judgement was given (4 months after birth) we only had to pay child support up to P test, which SHE waited to take until OC was 2 months old. Of course, I guess the court can do anything they want, but I wouldn't worry about being held responsible for CS until paternity is established.

Also, while our OW was pregnant, we gave her $$ for medical expenses which some people on this board advised against because it "could" establish my H as father regardless of what DNA said. I think that could come into play here as well. OW's H is on BC, and no one is questioning paternity. After 2 years I think your safe regardless and in the next 2 years she could come back and ask for DNA establishment, but how can the court's hold your H responsible from birth, for a child no one said was your H's?? JMO But I would concentrate on M right now and not worry about what OW is going to do, trust me, it will just haunt you.
Good luck!

Thanks, ColdDay... we are just concentrating on our M for now - we almost never talk or think about what OW is doing. Every month we don't hear from her is a month we can get further into our marital recovery, enjoy our family, and get our financial house in order. One day at a time...

Thanks!