I finally called H last night. We talked a bit. Then when the conversation dragged and he did not seem to have much to say I ended it. In the past I would just continue talking just to keep him on the line but I don't want to do that anymore. So, I said I had to go to finish the movie I started.

2 minutes later H called and asked me to a movie.

We went to see it today. H was very happy to see me. I tried not to get sucked in again, and just played it cool. It was working well there for a while. We saw the movie and then he wanted to get something to eat so we went to a restaurant. Through out we talked. Then just before we were ready to leave, H looks at me and sais "so you want to go over to your place and fool around". I was not prepaired for that.

What is he doing? He is the one who said "I want friendship alone".

Anyway, I did not know what to say. I felt really nervous adn he kept smiling at me and I smiled back, and tried to play to just laugh it off. But when we got to the car he kept on smiling, and had an expectant look on his face like he wanted an answer. I should have said I don't feel good, but I just said "maybe some other time". He just kept smiling and we had this really akward moment as I started driving and I drove the wrong way and I was getting all flastered and he said " I like to see you all flastered" in a gentle voice. I just looked at him and told him "you are trying to confuse me". Then he got it. He appoligized I apoligized, it was just unbelievably akward. As we drove he told me he was thinking about it since we got to the Restaurant.

I don't know what to do or think anymore.

I dropped him off and by then he was all cool and trying to get out ASAP. I know he felt weared. I don't know what he is doing?

I want to work on my M. I don't think he knows what he wants.

I don't know if I should see him anymore, but I still want my H back...

I feel like all he wants is for me to be his girlfriend. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Daisy

Call him back and ask him....did you have dinner and a movie with your H? Hm.... sure felt good but you now wonder, where is the WS?

Tell him to get back to you. Why r u asking? Because with the WS, you have t/b firm and distant but with your H you want t/b fun and loving but since he didn't tell you which was witch.....you have to ask.

Watch his reaction. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

Orchid,
I don't have any proof that he has an A going on. I look at him and I don't know what he is doing. He quit a MA program he started last year. Last time I talked to him he had a plan that he was going to be taking certain courses this term and starting another MA program in Winter. Now he said he is not taking any courses this term. I did not have a chance to ask him more about that, what his plans are etc, but it surprised me.

H has basically left me and dropped the MA program at the same time...

I want to work on the M but I have been the one suggesting it for the past 4 months, and finally H said no more of that, just friends (this is 3 weeks ago). But all the while he wants things from me that are more than friends... I wish there was some way that I could get him to work on the M but I don't see it...
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />
If I give in and have sex then I worry I will be just used and he will not have a need to come back to the M...
If I don't do it, then I worry I turn him away and he will never work on the M....

I have been doing better, moving on, and now he dropped this on me. WHY?????? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Why can't he just come back and try to work on it??? After all this, why am I willing and he is not??? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Daisy

Wow Daisy, that would have confused me too! Was that your H or WS? Your husband has lost (so he thought) the passionate love for you and thus decided he must not love you anymore and wanted to be free..., and after all, love cannot be that easily broken or forgotten, and now he is attracted to you again - but, is this the permanent change or he is still out there in a la-la land acting foolishly?

To me, the fact he got out of the car right away, he must have been embarrased. Why would he be embarrased? What did he have in mind (well we know the obvious one, but we don't know HOW he was processing his desire..) that embarraed him?

I think you should continue to act the way you have been (polite, cheerful, but still keeping some distance) to see how this develops. It seems to be working to me! But like Orchid said, we can't really tell which one you spent time with today, so watch his reaction!

Milk,
Thanks.
I was so close to telling him ILY and I want to be intimate. But I felt that I would again be pulled in. I want to work on the M but I also know that I don't need H, I can move on and be happy again.

The thing is it is hard to know if
1. he just wants sex and has no intention of working on the M and is just trying to get his EN met by me If he can. Then if I say anything about working on the M he will be like "who said anything about the M, I am talking fooling around only" (or something along those lines)

2. He wants more but will not aks.

The second option does not really sound too much like the case but that little part of me that is still hoping wishes that was the case.

It is just so confusing.

Milk, he never said he did not love me anymore. He just keeps saying he does not want to work on the M, wants to live seperate lives, and be friends.

I really think he just wants me to be his girlfriend and I don't know how long I can keep talking to him like this... It is really hard. I am feeling low now.
I mean, I want him too you know...

The whole situation just makes me cry again...
Daisy

I feel for you, Daisy. I'm an old fashioned girl...I'd be flattered and a little hopeful that he wanted sex, but I'd leave it at that until he agrees to work on the M. As my mother used to say about men who wouldn't commit...'why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?'

Thanks Trixie.

That is exactly how I feel. As much as I have accepted that he does not want to work on this M, it still hurts. I am afraid I would hurt more if I had agreed.

I just wonder if there is still hope?

The trouble I see is that I just don't think he wants the responsibility of a M. When he left he said he was not ready for a M. I did not believe it then, but now as I see him and as I had a chance to reflect on the last 4 years, I wonder if that is true. He loves me but he just wants to have fun. hey, nothing wrong with that. But he wants a very limited amount of responsibility. Now, all he needs to do is pay rent (it covers utilities), go to work and eat. It is funny, but he even started to eat the protein shakes some time back because he did not want to prepair food, not for any other reason. I really feel like saying "grow up already, you are 29". Why do I want this man back???

The trouble is I am still emotionally conected to him. I am not at a place where I can cut all contact with him all together.

Sometimes I wish I had been the one to leave. Maybe I would have been better off now...

How can he say he loves me but not be willing to make changes or at least try to make changes to be with me? I am willing to try.

I need to get back to where I was yesterday. Feeling good. I can't believe he did it to me again...

Daisy

That is a very good saying <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I am sorry Daisy. Just when you thought you would be okay without him, he would throw a bait enough to make you wonder and keep you around... I am not saying your husband is doing this consciously, but that certainly looks like is happening!

Be strong Daisy. You are very strong and smart. I know you want to believe it is #2, and I want to believe that is the case as well. And it could well be #2. But untill you get more information or "gut feeling", please be careful and you should observe what he is going to do next.

Hugs.
Milk

Milk,
I don't think he will do anything. The way he was rushing out of the car (he did wave at me), suggest to me he regrets saying anything and will try to shut me out now. Of course I don't know that for sure.

You know, it was easy for him to tell me no more MC, friendship only, etc. when he was with his family in CA away from me. At that time and it is just 3 weeks ago, he did not even reply to my calls for 4 days and that is after I took him to the airport and made breakfast for him that day. It is easy to be so distant when you have family around, but now that he is back home, it is not so easy to keep being distant. I honestly believe he loves me, but it just makes things worse since he is not WILLING to be a MAN!!!
I mean to leave because he does not want to sacrifice anything in the M and does not want to compromise anything, because compromising or sacraficing would mean he would sacrafice/compromise his happiness is unreal. I mean, am I to believe that in a M or an R one NEVER makes any compromises or sacrafices??? He even has me questioning my own believes? Darn!!

Daisy

Maybe he won't do anything at this point yet. After all, like you said, he was not even returning your calls till recently. But at the same time, soon as you started to detach yourself from him, he asked you out. How interesting, isn't it?

The Divorce Remedy - the book I am reading - says if you get a positive outcome, keep doing the same thing. So, even though he may not make the committment yet, at least he contacted you and wanted to spend a day with you, which is positive, so you should keep doing what you were doing recently.

Try not to think too much about it otherwise you won't be able to sleep - warm milk helps you sleep, but it's really hot here in Chicago tonight and I can't personally imagine drinking anything warm tonight! Take care.

Milk,
Thanks. Well, I am up in cold Canada and I got the heater on. It is cold out here. So, warm milk might work...

I am reading The Divorce Remedy as well. The thing is that I was not doing a 180 as some sort of strategy but I really was starting to accept the situation. At the same time, I still want him back so maybe it really is a 180. Anyway, I will continue as I have. I will probably call him again but not for a couple of days. Give it time to see what he does. In my panic I invited him to dinner for tuesday (I am having some mutual friends over). I really did not plan to invite him but it was all in that moment. Oh well, too late to think about that now. He said he would let me know. I don't really care if he comes or not since I have planned this dinner already for some time. If he does not call about tuesday I certainly will not call to ask. I gave him an invite, if he chooses to ignore it or rejects it, life goes on...


Daisy

It really sounds to me that your husband is still attached to you and certainly does not want to lose you, but wants freedom and does not wish to have any sort of restrictions on his behaviors or responsibilities. Well, most men do want the best of both worlds, don't they? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

That is just simply not going to happen. You either be with someone or not.

My husband has said the same thing - that he wants us to remain friends. FRIENDS?? But we got married and we are technically still a husband and wife!

Your husband is still emotionally attached to you, which is a good thing. But he assumes you will always be around for him, so in your case the 180 strategy should work pretty well.

Does your husband know that there will be other people who are coming to your dinner party on Tuesday? If he does, that might be the hesitation - he would not feel comfortable around your "mutual" friends. But too bad, that is the consequence he has to face.

Daisy, are you sure he's not having an A? He sounds like a fence sitter. Not trying to unnecessarily worry you, but it might explain his hot and cold behaviour. I know my WS was nice to me when OW decided to stay and work on her M, but then is a total a**hole when she throws him a bone and gives him some attention.

I THINK THIS IS EXACTLY IT!!!!

I admit I had done plenty of LB (was mostly brooding - we both really did that too much) and I was not supportive of some of his decisions. I think he felt I was not there for him. At the time he kept changing his mind about what he wanted to do (school wise etc) and it was frastrating to me. I wanted to plan to have children but the way he was every 4 months the children were postponed farther and farther into the future and at one point he said he might not even want them. I was getting frastrated and was not there for him. Now, and really even before he left I have accepting that I can live without having children if that is what has to happen for us to be together. I don't see if as a huge sacrafice!!! I see it as adjusting to the M and R. I would never resent him if I did not have children. I love him and want him in my life. But as I said, I don't need him in my life, so if he chooses to keep on tracking out of it I will be fine, eventually.

But he does not want to try anymore. I am willing to do what I can to be the best partner I can be. I want to be there for him and be supportive, but I don't want to take care of him (which I did too much). But he does not see that. And frankly I think he has convinced himself that he cannot do anything for me and will not do anything for me (as far as meeting my EN) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />...

Daisy

Now this is interesting. We have this in common too. We do have one child, but I wanted to have another one. Initially we agreed that we would start trying for the second one in spring of 2004. But in January of 2004, we had a huge fight and H told me he would not want to have another child.

I stopped mentioning about it for 6 months or so, but then since he started to see IC and started acting more loving and responsible, I thought (that was my mistake - I really did not know about SA or midlife crisis or whatever H might be suffering from) H is again the old sweet H, and I brought up the second child thing again. Then BOOM! H got so scared and wanted out.

I wonder your husband went throught the same thing. He loves you, but he is scared of responsibility. He thought you would pressure him to have children and felt suffocating (my husband said so) and wanted to escape. In my case, having a second child is not the only issue (as H has more personal issues), but it was certainly the trigger to our problem we are having now. Had I not ask him about the second child back in November, who knows we might be fighting still but could be still together.

It sounds like your husband may be going through an early midlife crisis as well. Or he is simply getting scared. I know a lot of men are scared of starting a family.

I really admire your strength and love Daisy. Because I could not tell my husband like you said "I will give up on my wanting to have another child, because I love you". I wish I could say that, but I did not, because I really did not understand the significance of H's issues and thought maybe down the road once things get back to the way they were before, he would be open to the child issue again. That is how I was thinking, and since I do not have whole a lot of time to wait, I really did not think I had to give up on the second child in order to keep our marriage.

Now I really see things more clearly, I could see how the thought of having a second child might have scared H to death. I will be honest with you though. I still do not understand personally, why having another child is such a scary thing, as millions of people do that (some have four, five, six...!!!). But given H's personality, I guess I could see where he is coming from NOW.

You mentioned your husband's depression. My husband is on a medication as well. When you are depressed, you magnify problems so I am sure that must have been a part of it.

You are willing to make such a big sacrifice to your husband and if he still does not hear what you are saying, he really is an idiot! (I am sorry to say this). He would never find anyone who would love him and fight for him as much as you do...

It is a give and take. You are willing to make this sacrifice and then your husband should feel "giving up a bachelor's lifestyle" in order to be with you is only fair.

Milkshake,
I don't know what goes through the mind of a person with depression. Sometimes I got the feeling like he felt bad that he could not do more. It felt as if he did not like feeling that he was not there for me but was unable to change his behaviour, and so it was easier to just leave.

The bachelor thing is an other issue. H said the other day he was at work till 4pm working, he works at a restaurant. Then he hanged out talking with some people outside. Then he went in and hanged out inside with some people and was drinking and basically stayed there till 8:30. This is what he felt he was missing with me? There were times when he would go out and not even tell me anything. I would wait at home and it would be 1am or 2am when he got home. I wanted him to have a good time and be with friends and enjoy the night scene but I did want him to call me and tell me! I mean he would just stay out late afte work (he ended his shifts at 11:00pm. He even felt that that was an impossition to call home and tell me he would be late. WHY?? I really don't even understand his mentality. I mean, why would it be a big deal to call and say I'll be late. I did not like if he did that everynight, but couple of times a week was fine. But he just felt that he should be able to go as he pleases. Any thought of what I might think about it was a sacrafice. He had me so confuse about what was reasonable to accept. Now, I know better. I have my bounderies well defined. But I don't have him...What a mess.

Daisy

That is just WRONG. How would he feel if you did the same thing to him? What if you just go out w/o telling him about it and w/o calling him?

You should not do what you would not like the other person to do to you. Your husband may still have a teenage boy mentality. That will not work no matter who he ends up being with! Normal woman would ask where he is and what time he would be home.