I've already hidden my profile.

In a dating R, the piece that's missing for most people is the commitment. That final decision of doing everything possible to keep the relationship intact. Protection and care. If that commitment hasn't been made, some people think its worth the risk to make their own decisions and risk losing the relationship. And... no matter HOW many EN's you're meeting, you still can't fulfill her life. Some people are still going to search and search to find happiness, even if it means sacrificing morals and good relationships.

Why would she be SLEEPING overnight with a former FWB? WHat's the point? Just for a visit? Weird.

And conversely...

If I'm not meeting all of her ENs, then I really don't want to let her out of Paragraph 121, Item A which states she can never leave the house without her Burkha.

TBG, What really is the point of this thread? Are all these questions of your rhetorical or do you really need answers to them. If it is the later, you may wish to consider backing off of this new relationship.

Part of this too is questioning how good MB really is?

"Do you really trust MB to work?"

MB is nothing new. It is rather a very well organized way of teaching people to conduct themselves in ways that are conducive to maintaining a good marital relationship. Yes, it will work if both partners are committed to making it work.



"Is it really possible to build an affair proof relationship? I mean, if a person wants to have an affair, then they're going to have an affair. "

There is no way ever to garuantee that you can build an affair-proof relationship, since you can only control the behavior of one person: yourself.


"If a person's ENs are being totally met by the person they are with, why would they want SF with anyone else?"

Got me, buddy. It happens. Some people have affairs because their ENs aren't being met. Others because they are in sexless marriages. Some have problems with impulse control. Others are manipulated into the affair. Some are just selfish and if they want something, they will just do it and everyone else can be damned.

"If I'm meeting all of her ENs to the point that she doesn't want anybody else, then why should I care if she sleeps overnight with a former FWB?"

Again, say what? I don't understand your thinking on this one. Is this not covered in your 42-page Agreement of Exclusivity?

Oh, you scamp! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Quote

Does POJA allow you to dictate who your SO is friends with? Does it allow you to dictate what your SO does with these friends? Does it make a difference what type of relationship your SO has had with these friends?

I wouldn't POJA who my partner's friends were--I'd simply POJA putting ourselves in risky situations. I might POJA the same matter if my SO suddenly decided to take skydiving lessons.

Let's not forget--emotions play a role---I don't know if I could be left alone for an evening with someone who had been fulfilling my sexual needs for a long period of time...not because I'm morally corrupt, but simply because the sexual need may supercede what I have with my current SO.

I'm not one to separate issues like this--if I could have a completely emotionless "friends with benefits" relationship with someone, then it would stand to reason that it would be okay to CONTINUE a relationship like that if I was in a relationship with another person. I would like to think that if I could have sex with someone devoid of an emotional attachment, then that should be ok if I have an emotional attachment with another person while I have strictly emotionless, no strings attached sex with someone else. Since this isn't socially acceptable to men or women, I have never engaged in this kind of activity...although logically, it makes sense to me.

Ultimately, dating is about evaluating how a person fits with you--if you have to POJA and discuss meeting each other's important needs, then that isn't the person for you. Why would you want to "work" on a relationship with someone when you could simply find the person who meets the majority of your needs, right off the bat?

Because he really is a friend. Because they don't have SF every time they get together. Because they enjoy their friendship. Because it's too much of a hassle to spend more time on the road getting to and from there than actually being there.

Honestly, if they wanted to have SF with each other, wouldn't an hour suffice? They really don't have to spend the night together. And truthfully, I would ask she get a hotel room, but still, that doesn't guarantee she use it.

Aside from chaperoning her visit with this guy, I'd have to trust her to keep he word to me. The alternative is to ask her to end her friendship, and I'm not going to do that.

But seriously, I don't think it will ever be an issue because I don't think she would do it. Never having been in a FWB relationship, I was just curious how much trust I could reasonably afford.

Yes, an hour would suffice. That's why I told my little story about my potential lunch with my friend. Long-distance friends is one thing, although emotional connection is something to be afraid of as well, in some cases. (None of us, including you, yet, understand all the pieces, and depth, of this friendship) Friendship "lunch" visits are another thing. But DEFINITELY overnight stays leaves way too much doubt. IMO.

I agree with something Check was trying to get at. Why are you asking all this? Are you putting a cart before a horse in a new R? If you haven't crossed these bridges, are you over-analyzing a bit? If she's resisting your reasonable requests and comfort-zones, and accusing you of being controlling, those may be red-flags. OTOH, its a brand new R, and pushing things (even some requests) too fast is dangerous........... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Because I'm bored. Because I'm tired of hypocrisy this and hypocrisy that discussions. Because I like to see how other people think on issues that I think may be slam dunk questions.




Hmmm... you must have read my profile. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />




Nope, she has done none of those things.

If you are MBing, then you do not POJA time with other people of the opposite sex. It goes against MB principles to be alone in this situation. If the friendship is POJAd, then the friendship changes to include the new partner/spouse. If the FWOB or S is not comfortable socializing with the new S, then the friendship must end.

Now I'm not just talking theoretically here. My X had many FWOBs and I pretty much had to take it. When our marriage was on the rocks, guess where he got his benefits? He married one of them after we divorced.


Mrs. W8ing

Where is this stated?

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

I have another suggestion...

Instead of worrying about whether you are controlling by trying to POJA this issue, why not consider this to be an awesome opportunity? An opportunity to learn more about your new GF?

Dating is all about evaluating compatibility, not forcing or POJAing it. If you and she are incompatible in your outlooks on opposite sex friendships, then put it on your list of "things to review before deciding if this person is right for me". If you are doing your job, your list should already have a number of entries in it <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

So instead of "giving in" or worrying about forcing her to give in, or even tryin gto resolve it by POJA, how about having a discussion with her about it, and seeing how she feels? It might tell you a lot about her, and you really do want to learn about her right now, not push or encourage her into agreeing with you while possibly hiding her true preferences. That's what dating is all about.

If (for instance) you believe that a serious relationship (once you get to one) implies no close opposite sex friends, while she thinks it's perfectly fine ("Don't you trust me??!!"), you may have a big red flag on your hands. My ex and I had that kind of a different outlook, let's just say it caused endless problems.

Anyway, my point is that instead of worrying about what the rest of us think about the issue, I would use this as an opportunity to see where she stands on this issue, and compare it to where you stand. It might tell you a lot about future compatibility.

AGG

How to Avoid an Affair:
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5024_qa.html

and

How Do Affairs Begin

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5059_qa.html
Affairs are almost always with friends and co-workers. That's because the people you work with and those you spend leisure time with are usually in the best position to meet your most important emotional needs.

I totally agree! Big Guy, this is an opportunity for you to see if you and your GF see eye to eye on this hugely important issue - if yes, great, if not, something to think about. It doesn't matter how we here feel about it, it is a test of your compatibility in outlooks with your GF.

FWB, FWOB, GFs, BFs, ex-fiances, ex-spouses......

All of us have had many people in our lives at various levels of intimacy. Somehow, we've come to accept that once the "romantic" part of a relationship ends, we dispose of these people. Can't everyone understand that this thinking automatically gets extended to whatever relationships we currently have? People are not disposable. While we may break up, get divorced, or loose track of one another, that is no reason whatsoever to automatically preclude any chance of some future, albeit limited relationship with that person.

Just because you once had sex with someone, doesn't mean that you will ever have sex with that person again. I have a few female friends who were once lovers and I have no intention of ever having sex with them again. So the current woman in my life, wife or otherwise, has no right to tell me that I cannot remain friends with these women. She does have the right to demand that ALL my friends, not just the women, be a friend of our marriage. She does have the right to insist that I maintain good boundries against inappropriate intimacy. Finally, she does have the right to expect that I will spend all but occasional free time with her, instead of flitting about with friends.

TBG, I have to ask this. Just a few weeks ago, you clearly stated that your goal was to date around, freeload, as you called it. You stated that you had a tendancy to get in too fast, too deep, and gave too much of yourself. Because of this, you didn't want to get into a relationship. Many of us thought you had a great idea. You were into multple dating and had no idea of settling in on any one woman for awhile. That was just a few weeks ago and here you are in a relationship discussing matters that usually couples don't even begin thinking about until they are much farther along. What changed for you? Is it possible that you may be reverting to the pattern of behavior you have been trying to overcome? I don't really expect an answer to that last question, but rather that you think about it yourself. I guess I'm a bit confused because it is very difficult to figure out which of your questions are simply posed for the sake of general discussion, which you desire answers to, and which are you just clowning around.

This is a multifaceted question TBG. Is it that you aren't certain you can be OK with her spending time with this guy or is that you don't like that she had a FWB relationship & maybe likes the life style & may not be able to commit to you even if her words say she wants to?

Does this bring into the forefront some trust issues?

Timing is a factor too. Was the FWB relationship a while ago, like years ago & only once or was it recent & she's had several of these relationships?

For me, a recent FWB relationship would make it difficult to feel he was able to commit the way I'd like him to so I could feel safe. So would more than one of these relationships. I'd have in my head that he was capable of sex without much else to tie him to me & wonder if I was in that position. Lots to consider.

Another quote from that page...

""Last week I got a letter from a man whose wife has a close friendship with his best friend (male). His friend and his wife do almost everything together recreationally. He wrote to say that I was dead wrong about his particular spouse, and that my advice that friends outside of marriage should be same-sex friends was paranoid. He trusted his wife, and she could spend as much time with this friend as she wanted to. My response was for him to write me again in three years and let me know if he felt the same way after he discovered that his wife and best friend were having an affair ""

Very good, check and nams. TBG, I realllyyyy hope you'll try to address these....