I quit reading into things my X does (well, as much as I can..) but lately she has been very friendly. She sent me a long email this week about how she had to get rid of her dog and how upset she was (I responded as kindly as I could an assured her it was the right thing to do). She calls on issues for the kids more now. Last night she called on some issues on the kids and we talked for almost 20 minutes. Not just about the kids but about work and things (nothing personal though). It just seemed like old times talking with her.

She and the kids left for a short trip with her family today and I agreed to watch a pet for them. When she stopped today to drop off the pet, I just looked at her and missed her so much. I did not say anything about that and she was very friendly but as they all left, my heart sank.

I have always known she loves me but doesn't know what she wants. Her entire life has always been about looking for something better, vehicles, homes, clothes, furniture and me .

I wonder if she misses me???? I was a great husband and father - maybe she is starting to realize that?

Then on the other side of the coin, she has done this to me too many times. Why in the world do I love someone that hurts me like this?

Keith

Sometimes a woman doesn't realize she is hurting you. And sometimes you don't realize what you have until is gone. If you miss her that much, let her know. You never know what could happen. I wish you luck in what ever outcome you want

She knows how I feel - she knows I have always loved her.

God did you marry my wife to? Sounds just like her always looking for something better. Im a great father but just a so so husband, but im a good man and a very moral man.

My wife is so not the woman she used to be, maybe someday that woman will come back, but for now its all party and screw with other guys. But I still love her damnit. I see her and I still find her so damn hot, it drives me crazy.

Last 3 weeks have been really hard on us, not talking much, fighting really bad, yesterday we had a long talk about why I was so mad. It wasnt the affair, it wasnt the other guys it was that she used me for 4 months for everything, money, sex, emotional support without giving me anything but her body. She said she was sorry, so for now we can talk again.

I just want to find someone who loves me be it her in the future or someone else.

Falcon554 - Are you still married? Are you in counseling?

When my wife moved out, she lost lots of weight and started wearing tight leather skirts, low cut blouses, lots of make-up and had her hair done all the time. It made me so mad that I was hurting so bad while she was out loving "all the attention" men were giving her.

Now she is putting her weight back on and doesn't wear as much makeup or look "so hot" all the time. But, I still think she is beautiful and always thought that about her.

I don't know what to think sometimes... I see her and miss her so much. Then I think of all the times she has done this to me over the last 10 years and she just thinks it is normal!!! She even turns it back on me and blames me for her behavior!

You know, I miss so much waking up next to her. Having her cuddled up next to me.

I know what to think,

you don't have enough self esteem to say to yourself, i am done with that crazy woman because she hasn't changed, won't change, and continues to hurt me.

you are taking the actions of a disorder woman personally, and are still emotionally attached to it for some unexplained on here reason.

so, what in your childhood, read mother figure pr father figure, has influenced you to accept psychologically poor behavior towards you as ok? was your father a man servant? was your father so nice as to get walked all over by your mom and took it smiling and lovingly?

Betrayed Husband in Wisconsin,

you need to start looking at yourself as to why you want to be married to this type of behavior? why do you miss it? and what keeps you being drawn to it? as you are not exhibiting any self leadership of wanting to stay away from a toxic wife.

think about it, i know you don't like my posts,
but just think about it. .

wiftty

you know a normal loving woman just might feel the same way, and you won't know until you figure out what one acts like, and then sleep next to her. . .

wiftty

We are getting a divorce, I was in counseling, she wont go. I did have a normal loving woman for 19 years then BOOM!! she went crazy.

I think she wont let go of me either, she needs my approval of stuff for some reason. We grew up together and will always be together somehow. Grandkids and the like.

Im not sure why I take what I take. I know my self asteam is very low, I know im not ugly by any means but I also know its much easier for her to get someone then me.

I will always be friends with my wife no matter what. That will never change even if she gets married again. She has always been my best friend and im sure she will always be there for me. Trust me if I need her in anyway right now all I would have to do is call and she would be there. Same with me.

Wiftty,

Maybe I don't always like your posts but you certainly lay it on the line.

To answer your questions... Both of my parents were severe alcoholics. They were decent, honest, loving hard working people that had a bad problem - booze. They both died in 1997, mom had cancer, dad from an infection 3 months later.

I have read a lot about adult children of alcoholics (ACA's), and have gone to counseling every time my wife did this to me. What I have learned is there are lots of roads we adult children can take. Some good roads, some bad roads. I always told myself that my parents (as much as I loved them) taught me how NOT to be in many ways. I am not an alcoholic, never will be, and I have always been very focused on my family. And I am very affectionate.

But on the flip side, we ACA's have traits that (as well intended as we may want to be), are not good for us. One that I learned is that we tend to be loyal to a fault. My wife has hurt me so many times and I just keep right on loving her.

Another thing we ACA's have problems with is acceptable boundaries. I know what mine are as far as how I conduct myself. I am not sure what you think of me but I am truly respected at work, with friends and family on how I carry myself. But, the boundaries with my wife's conduct are in a gray area and they tend to be with me. After all, when growing up with alcoholic parents, where are the boundaries? They are normal one day and drunk the next.

You know Wifty, during her 2nd EA in 2000 I went to a psyhciatrist. She would not go to a counselor and I honestly thought I was the cause of all of this. After a few sessions he asked me "What is it you want me to do for you?". I told him, "I want you to tell me how I can make my wife happy so she quits doing this." What he said floored me and he layed into me like you do! He said, "Why in the he1l do you think it is up to you to make her happy? Doesn't happiness come from within?". He told me I was a great person, putting all kinds of energy into a relationship and not getting anything in return. He told me to get mad. So... I went home and told her that her behavior was unacceptable, and that she needed to work with me and cut it out. She did but would not talk about it and 5 years later, she is infatuated with someone that she barely knew again.

My best friend told me recently that ALL of our friends are so worried I will take her back someday.

I guess what I am trying to say, is I do have self-esteem issues. And I am still in therapy after 1 ½ years. I miss her and I miss the children terribly...

I hope that someday, I find someone that truly cares for me, and sees how I care for her, and cherishes it.

Hey Wifty - it felt good writing this. Got any more questions?

Keith

so what happened is that you stopped being an enabler of her poor behavior, and you betrayed the reason that she married you, you changed from being an enabler of her avoidance of taking self responsibility, to one that started to holder her feet to the fire concerning self responsibility. . . (I also did this to my X) and in effect you asked her to grow up to be an adult. . and guess what? tI suspect that those reasonable requests from you did not sit very well with her. . . and so she does what children do, she ran away from you, the parent, the force that is causing the child to take adult responsibilities, and now, she can be a child again. . .no responsibilities. . .

so now, you are a responsible adult, and you have these co-0dependent behaviors towards her, wanting to be a parent to her. . . well, you are now an adult. . an equal to all other independent adults, and cannot make her do anything she doesn't want to . . . so now get used to the lack of control over other people, and start gaining some control over your emotional life. . . you see, your professional life has nothing to do with your emotional life. .

how does that sound?

wiftty

BHINWI------I am fighting some of the same issues---I spent my entire marriage trying to fix, help, rescue and make my spouse happy. It certainly was not something I understood. I am coming to the conclusion that he is happy and that he doesn't find anything wrong with his lifestyle. He is an alcoholic which has caused him to become a paraplegic from a drunk driving accident. He has lost his marriage because he fell in love 2x with other women and he has a stream of other problems that he has experienced through poor judgment. He doesn't seem to see any of it as his problem or maybe his denial just can't verbalize it. Not sure.

While married, he always did his own thing and he thought just like a single person. He was a good, repsonsible father and provider and there were many days that were normal and wonderful. I can say I really understood when you said that your parents were decent, hard-working people and that boundaries were an issue cause one day they were drunk and the next day they were ok. The alcoholics in my life were like that too. Deep inside I always blamed myself for our marriage being difficult. I could not understand why I could not accept him as he was, why he couldn't "love" me, why he did not want the same things I wanted (that was because I was weird, not him) but I hated his drinking and I felt quilty about that, too. BUT I hung in there and NEVER seemed to give up (loyalty to a fault).

I get into some of the same yo-yo feelings you do. After all the heartache of 30+ years, I want to just "start" all over and be the happily ever after couple. I want my house back and my yard and I want to give our kids their parents' homelife to come home to. But I do have a reality check often and know that there is no hope for our marriage to mend while my spouse is in the same frame of mind he has always been in. Then I realize that it is the desire for family, house, togetherness that I want not necessarily my husband. He just happens to be the only one who has filled that role in my life.

My father was a fall-down, out-of-it alcoholic and my mom abused alcohol too. Nothing ever satisfed anyone and I learned to rescue at an early age so-----rescuing my spouse felt so normal. This was "family" to me. Now I am really at a place where I need to find out why my self-worth seems to fluctuate from 0-10 back to 0 again and so on. I have no other issues to work on now cause most of my life is full of peace and serenity. But my lack of self-worth is coloring many of my experiences especially my job.

Wiffty does lay it on the line and I have a friend like that. I do believe ACOAs need someone to do that for them cause my brain does not have straightforward, what-the-heck-ya-doing thoughts. My thoughts go in circles usually.

You said some helpful things. It gave me some clarification and it makes me wonder if ACOA ever gain a normal sense of self-worth?

TW

Yes, it did not sit well with her at all. I remember the conversation like it was yesterday. I told her how wrong her behavoir was, and how it was so incredibly disrespectful to our marraige and me. She was fuming mad at me for saying that. But, she did straighten out (so I thought).

10 years ago, we had somewhat of the same conversation. Marraige going along fine, suddenly she tells me she never loved me, then blames me for everything. She told me I was a horrible father and husband. She even told me she hated the way I put dishes away! Later I found out that she was infatuated with someone that we just met and she was calling him and driving by his house. Anyway, she just would not work with me on confronting the problems. One night, I had enough. I got our little girl in the dining room and gave her some dinner and met my wife in the living room and said "Let's talk". She got up, as always and said "No". This time I said "Sit down or I will sit you down" (and I NEVER EVER talked to her like that before). Anyway, I told her exactly what I thought of her behaviour, the lying, the secrets, blaming me for her actions. It did not go over well with her that time but she listened.

As for me.... Yes, I have a lot of emotions I am dealing with. I may seem like a rock to some people, but my dear friends have seen me at my worst. I have cried on many of their shoulders, talked to them until they were probably bored to tears, etc. etc.

As you suggest, I am dealing with some self-esteem issues. Do you know of any good books for me to read?

Keith

TW,

Thank you for your post. My heart goes out to you.

The thing about growing up in an alcholic family, is that life is normal one day, and utter chaos the next. Then it is back to normal again. So, here comes the loyalty part...they are drunk today, but tomorrow they will be fine so I will just stick with them.

Then you become ultra-repsonsible. We lived on a farm and when they were drunk, we kids would run the farm. Another trait of ACOA's is they can be ultra-responbile or very irresponsible. I am ultra-responsible... if something goes wrong, it has to be my fault!!!

But I was lucky also. Yes, they drank, and neglected us terribly at times but they had a kidness to them when they were sober that I will always treasure. Also, when my mother was dying of cancer she opened up about her drinking and how bad she felt (we never could talk about that before). We really healed a lot of wounds as she was dying. In a way, her slow death was a blessing as we had wonderful conversations. Even with my father, he cared for her 24/7 while she died. After she died, he got ill and passed away. But as he was dying, we got to talk to him also.

I know how you feel about your x. I have a hole in my heart that for some stupid reason, I feel only my "x" can fill. I have dated, and I think I sometimes expect someone new to fill the void. But then I think I need to let it heal. But then I think it can't heal unless I find someone. So, like you said, yo-yo.

Wiffty may "lay into me" on this post too but if that is what I need, I hope she does. I want to come out of this nightmare the best possible person I can be and anyone that can help me along this journey, is welcome with open arms.

God bless you all.

Keith

its not that i want to chastise you, its not that i want you to feel bad for your situation. . . what i want you to do is to think and analyze WHY you are putting up with poor marital behavior as behavior that is due to your maturing and your reasonable adult expectations.

What i want you to do is to think about how you can assign the responsibility for your wife's decisions onto her, and not onto you. think about ways that you can do that in such a way as relieve yourself of the responsibility for you being her excuse. . .

gain some confidence in that you were a good husband, in that you did communicate, that you did ask her to join you in an adult relationship. .. and she couldn't, and wouldn't. ..
remember, you can ask and can expect reasonableness. ..
nothing is wrong with that. . .

wiftty

Thank you Wiftty.....