My wife is a CEO of a publicly traded company in Australia, and over the past two years I've caught her two different times having a physical affair and once in an emotional affair with a Stanford Professor, all of which started shortly after she decided to get a boob job. in spite of my best efforts to get her to speak honestly and openly, she remains inscrutable. When I caught her again on Oct.31, she lied again, and this time said she was sleeping with another CEO friend in the Bay Area. I called him up and he was shocked and swore that he had never had anything other than a professional relationship with her, and hadn't even seen her in six months. This is just the latest in an appalling series of lies over the past three years. There's so much more to it, but does the collective wisdom of this board find that it's typical for a spouse to lie so much?
In actuality, I'm using this as an excuse to open up. With two young kids and divorce inevitable, I've been crying like a baby for the past several days (triggered by a song, for instance, while I'm working out at the gym), and need to unload a bit.

Welcome to MB. I'm glad you are "opening up" and coming here for support. It's not a place any of us wants to be, but thank goodness it's here! I'm sorry for your pain.

I never thought I could cry so much as I did when dealing with my exWS's infidelity. You're right...a certain song...smell...familiar place..the tears come pouring out. Sometimes it seemed like they'd never stop. It was like I had no control over them.....coming at such "inconvenient" times.

For me, I think the lying was ALMOST as bad if not worse than the actual affair. It's very typical of what happens in affairs. I just couldn't believe that someone who said they loved me could possibly look me straight in my eyes....and lie and lie over and over again. Even if they'd violated my trust by having an affair, at least 'fess up and give me the respect of being truthful with me! But that's not how it goes.

They straddle the fence (just can't make up their mind who they want to be with), or become a cake-eater (someone who wants it all..the other person and their spouse.) Neither is conducive to honesty. They get in a "fog" over having found their "soulmate", and any behavior becomes acceptable in maintaining that belief. Or, they do feel shame...can't live with that knowledge about themselves...and lie so they can live with themselves. I think that after awhile they actually do believe their own lies! Maybe that's why they can be so convincing to the BS.

I'd start thinking back about the time frames when my exWS was having his affair. I'd question whether any of my memories were "real" when it came to his time with myself and our children.

How old are your children? How long have you been married?

Do lots of reading on this site and keep coming back. There are some "old timers" who have a lot of collective wisdom....even if they don't always agree with each other! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the input; everything you mention rings true. She is a cake eater and I'm embarrassed to say that she even wanted me to agree to an "open marriage" so that she could "discover" herself. And, of course, used phrases like "just a three-night-stand" to indicate that there was no emotional attachment to her infidelities. As if that would somehow lessen the pain. However, if I were a betting man I'd bet that the single incidences I've discovered are probably with a single person who gives her what she needs (duh); that is, not multiple partners.

As she's a very bright woman, I've used every imaginable strategy, but her responses become meaningless when all the lies are factored in.

I read a lot on this site back in July, and tried to get her to buy into the philosophy with me, but she refused. Then we tried a psychoanalyst for several months, but again her responses became suspect since she was in the midst of an infidelity, and deceived both the therapist and I.

I have a boy (I'm beginning to use "I" instead of "we") who is 6 and has a pervasive developmental delay (PDD-NOS), ADHD, and some emotional problems, and a precocious 3 y/o girl. We've been married for 11 years.

At the moment I'm about to send a retainer to a litigator (rather than a collaborative law proponent as we initially discussed), and am contemplating pushing ahead rapidly in order to apply maximum pressure to her already overloaded life.

I think I'll start refering to the OM as "your soulmate" just to anticipate her probable feelings towards him, and by that lessen and cheapen the whole thing. Thanks .

Hi DocMartin:

I feel sorry for what you are gong thru, but sometimes they don't realize how much they make us go thru.

We wish we could have control on making them realize that we love them and we would be willing to die for them, but it's not that way. We fed their ego's and made them feel superior, but like Eleanor Roosevelt said: No one can make you feel inferior wihtout your consent.

We allowed them to walk all over us, it is us to blame, but it is us to make that stop. Yeah, I guess I said something you or I didn't want to hear, but I can tell you something, we did it all for love!

I made everything too easy on STBXH, I had sex with him the first day we met, I lived with him as soon as I moved to Houston, I put at the money I made to be happy and for all our expenses, I gave him legal residence, I pushed him into believing in him to grow professionally, I took care of his son for 3 years 8 months, I went out to look for a full time job to start a family, I helped him help his family with the money he earned of me spending my money on me and not asking for a single cent.

Speaking of lies he has said the following reasons that he asked me for the divorce:

1.-Because I feel free when I'm out
2.-Because I feel handsome when girls talk to me
3.-Because I was tired of the fights
4.-Because I didn't see a future for us
5.-Because it was over a long time ago
6.-For real, It's not you, It's me
7.-Because having you here does not allow me to appreciate you
8.-Because I don't think a Doctor will help us solve our problems
9.-Because we don't have nothing in common
10.-Because I got tired of looking for stuff for us to do together but you never wanted to
11.-Because you were always waiting for me to pay for our trips, you need did anything
12.-Because you never finish what you start

So now, he has given me the MARRIAGE SEPARATION AGREEMENT because I wanted to make sure he would not claim my car as his or want any money when I would sell it and from his side he wanted to make sure I would not take away more than what I should. Everybody tells me that I shouldn't continue making things easy for him, but I think this will only help me recover faster. This document shows clearly the reason why we are divorcing and that we both agree to the divorce therefore there won't be much papaer work envolved. So if I don't sign it he would have to incurr on more expenses, but that doesn't matter to me, what matters is that I have peace, the faster the better.

My question is? should I make this easy on him, should I sign it or make it hard on him for the first time in life, I mean it wont stop the divorce, it will only make it longer and hurfull for me. I'm thinking of me, but then again, everybody is right.

Should I or should I not?

Any suggestions?

It's only a sense I get from the list you wrote, but he knows he's taking advantage of you, and he'd be dumbfounded if you stood up to him. I've spent a lot of internal resources, in the past, doing the right thing for someone. And while knowledge that I was being a good person helped in the short term, over the long term I had to fight to regain my self respect. So it's only long afterwards that you can weigh the value of being easy on him (being a good person) and being tough (and strong within). From what you wrote above, I'd recommend taking care of yourself without considering his feelings.

oh wow...so very typical.

my now xh said to me the last few months we were together...

"I swear Peach. I love you and always will. can you just wait on me for a few years and I swear I'll be back? I mean people get divorced and remarried to each other all the time."

my xh remarried all right.

he married ow 3 days after our d was final. but then again,she got deliberately pregnant.

My xh used to say wild things to me...crazy stuff for his logical basis for a divorce.

My basis and why I filed? He would not recommit to marriage, or seek counseling for his emotionally abusive behavior wich sometimes became abusive.

and yes,my xh is also cfo of a financial company in the atlanta area. also same age as your ww.

It's starting to get ugly. 17 emails traded yesterday and this morning, her attorney was copied on half. She brought her Dad with her yesterday to our house, and gathered a bunch of clothes, saying in parting, that they'll be back tomorrow to get more. Then this morning she whined that she has to go to NY for a few days, so can she keep the kids? I say fine, just get them back by 6 since they have to go to school tomorrow. She says an IT guy is coming over to her parents house at noon to work on something, and she needs to translate. I threw a few boxes of her stuff into the car and drove over to the parents house, but nobody is there. No phone or email message either. Pissed off, I went to the local Target store and bought half a dozen big plastic containers, then went home and threw all, well maybe half, of her clothes into the boxes, and dropped them off in the parents driveway . They still weren't there, so I went home and had a field day stuffing into boxes, and black trash bags, about 200 pairs of shoes, all her toiletries (abouta 55 gallon drum's worth) and everything in her dressing room that reminded me of her, directly or indirectly. I couldn't figure out what to do with about 20 feet of clothes on hangers, so I just stuffed them into the hall closet. The downside is that she called her lawyer, who told her to keep the kids with her since I was acting so irrationally. I went to the parents house and dropped off the remaining items, brought the kids clothes for the morning, and kissed them goodnight. Then blasted the STBXW (took me a while to figure out that abbreviation) for dragging the kids into it, since we had promised to focus on keeping them out of the line of fire. I told her that the rest of her clothes wouldn't fit in the boxes so I put them by the dumpster in back of WalMart. Well, it was the start of a good cathartic, and after I get the smell out of the dressing room I'll feel much better.

My gosh!

It's the money, it's the power that money gives to just make a decision not caring what people feel or think. Some day they won't be in their safe place and that's when they'll realize how important it is to STOP AND THINK and then they'll want what they never gave.

Doc, you sure made her upset :P .

Do you have a lawyer? What does your lawyer tell you?

I just went sign a letter of engagement today. It cost $3500 for a retainer and $250/hr. Reading it made me feel how irrevocable it becomes when placed into a lawyers hands. So I called Sara, who had just returned from her lawyers. I asked for her to please consider one, time-limited, mutual, strong effort at making the marriage survive, and she turned me down in a gentle way. Started crying uncontrollably again, and walked in to open this. Thanks for being there.

I'm glad I made you feel better, I think?

Well at least you know you are not alone in this, there's many people that know what I said, but there's also people like us that know what love is all about. Yes, we wish it could be with the person we want to but we need to understand they were not the person for us, sadly you have kids, I don't, but STBXH does.

I think you did what any human would, try no matter what and It's so beautiful to know you forgive her no matter what. You are a great guy!! Maybe, you are too good for her.

It seems that financially you both are doing great, but maybe you are a down to earth person that knows what he wants, she is a teenager with new skills, that's all she is now, but like I said, this doesn't last forever .. Love does!

I wish I could be in contact with everybody in a more personal level since we all would like to talk about more and more and more until we get tired. But it's hard I guess.

Doc, you are in my heart as well as everybody else. My prayers to all to get better and find the right love.

Doc,

This helped me a lot when I was going through the same scenario( except for throwing out her clothes). I wish I HAD done that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

Hope for Couples

Cymanca,
Thank you very much for the reference. It took another burst of crying to get completely through it. but it was inspirational to the extent that I copied and pasted it into an email, and started to put it into my own words. Yet, I realized that, just as it was pointed out, it will be seen as a desperate attempt. And yes it is, so I'll sit on it. And now after a few hours reflection it occurs to me that everyone is miserable when I'm around. Sara, the kids, the grandparents. My anger told me to lash out and make Sara feel some of the pain I've lived with for many years. And I developed plans to undermine her career, take the house, half her salary and stock holdings, and the kids, and make her start all over again with just her wits. but the kids are so happy when she's here. And the past two nights with mom at Grandma and Grandpa's house was very good for them; they behaved, ate and slept well, and were not very pleased about coming back home to eat the s**t that dad always cooks, and fight with me about everything. So I've decided to quit fighting and give up, and move into the rental house, quit claim on our home, car, her salary and stock, and just look for every other weekend with the kids. I'm so tired of the hurt, and I can't destroy her and ruin the kids life, and contribute to an early death of the grandparents. Damn all that glorification of martyrs in catholic school. Thanks Hope, Peach, Heartmending, and Cymanca for your input. Best regards,

IMHO, don't take the "Grand Martyr" routine TOO far...you don't want to let her walk away with 1/2 (or more) of what is legally your property also. WHy would want to give away (to an adulterous spouse no less!) what you have worked so hard for?

I understand COMPLETELY that you don't want to get into a "death match" over custody (as long as she is a fit parent)...the kids will be the real losers.

I know you are having a tough time right now, but consult an attorney and LISTEN to them...you will regret not securing your financial rights.

Be well,

WNB

WHnowBS,
Thanks for that. I dismissed my attorney this morning with the intent of saying "**** it, take it all" to Sara. Right after reading your note, a friend, who is an intellectual property attorney called. She understands my position and feelings, and suggested that I follow through with taking half of everything, and putting it in a trust for the kids. Which is a great suggestion.
It's terrible feeling so schizophrenic; one day I want to fight hard, the next day I want to be beat up.

Yes, I feel the same way, Doc.I think we all do. It's the emotional roller coaster ride you get for free! The cost? Your tears and some heartache in change.

No bargains, what you see is what you get. That's life. Thank God for contact lenses!!

It'll get better Doc. We just have to believe.

I began the thread as a cathartic, and this is more of the same. I realize that my vindictive side is coming through again, but in the original spirit of disclosure this morning I emailed about 20 mutual friends and an equal number of her professional colleagues, and told them precisely what was going on regarding divorce due to multiple infidelities on her part. Every single reply (90% rate) was from someone stunned at the revelation. They all thought she was above reproach and full of integrity (so did I). Several men confided that in general they don't trust women. Pity.

So, how do you feel now? Did this make you feel better?

I can tell you one thing, I tried to do the same thing with my STBXH but I realized that nobody cared how he had treated me, I mean it might be a surprise when they read it, but then what? they will continue to work together, a job is still a job. So calling his boss would not make a difference, it would just fill my heart with bad feelings and I would be sour for god knows how many days, because maybe you know how her coworkers feel about her, but I wouldn't, but for you I insist they still need to work together. What are you expecting will happen or could happen?

I'm sure you did all you can, but if you feel you haven't you can always call her and ask her IS THIS WHAT YOU WANT?, I did, and I did this yesterday, I got my answer, it hurted like crazy, but hey, I tried until the very last minute, I tried, I put all the hurt on the side and was willing to give HIM a second chance, didn't wanted to, well too bad for HIM.

Do you want to ask again? Maybe asking until you feel satisfied with trying all you could to save your marriage might be a therapy, it was for me, and today I put on my make up, dressed up, look great and feel "good", which is better than just "ok".

Today I will live and be happy, I might have a moment, but it will be just that ... a moment.

Try all you can, until you say I DID!! AND I CAN SAY I DID DOG'GONE IT!

But do what makes you feel good, if writting those e-mails was what you needed to do, well good, if you need to do more, then do it, go for it, as long as it makes you feel really but for real good!!!!!

Doc, tell all those men that they have not yet met the women from MB's, give us some credit!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks Hope. I contemplate going overboard after Sara started getting replies from colleagues, wrote to me and and hypothesized the likely scenario of getting fired, with the detrimental effect on the kids, and concluded with "Our marriage will still be over and I will hate you for the rest of my days, but the children will be comforted in the knowledge that through your profound love for their mother you have exacted your revenge. And perhaps they will appreciate that, free from material goods, they can travel that spiritual journey right along with you. You’ve succeeded, Martin. I no longer have any faith or belief in myself or anyone else". I'm not sure what it meant, other than an attempt to get me to back off. While I want to strip away her arrogance and pride, I'm not confident that this course will do anything positive. Any thoughts?

Well, I believe she just thru a major guilt trip attempt. Yeah, she feels betrayed because you exposed her to her co-wrokers, that's embarrasing to anyone.

She seems to not realize that the one who has been hurt in this relationship is you. If she does not belief or have faith on herself it's her fault. She obviously now wants to blame you for her poor decision making and her lack of judgement.

Anything that happens to her from now on is caused by her acts and by how she handles herself in and out of the office.

Your children need to be kept out of this, do not play her games, I think that they need to be talked atby you other than a specialist, depends on how you handle things, but if you can't then take them to one.

I understand your feelings, but anything we do will not change the fact that they we are no longer in their hearts. You need to let go and let it hurt, remember that life happens and there's a thing called Kharma. You can not go thru life hurting people and causing so much pain, specially when children are envolved. Kids don't deserve to watch her do all this, eventhough they might not understand, some day they will and they will ask questions and they are not dumb.

Let life happens, it is what it is. And nothing will change, we have been hurt and we shall be better one day. When that day comes you will be happy and she will be dragging her feet around,thinking about her life and wondering WHY DID I DO THIS? Let her actions be her doom. Stop fighting the waters, when you least realize it you won't feel any more pain.

A hug for you!!!