Hi all,
I'm new here but have been lurking for a little while.
DH and I have an issue that is tearing me up inside. He wants kids and I don't. I've never been excited about the thought of having them, but always thought "well I guess I'll have to someday, it's just what you do when you get married." Over the past 2 years, I have really started thinking about whether or not I really want them and I'm pretty sure I don't.
2 months ago we had a huge fight about it, (we've been arguing about this for over a year now) but that last fight was the worst. He was saying things like he doesn't know if we should stay married, and he feels like he'll resent me if we never have kids. And my feeling is, if he doesn't love me enough to respect how I feel about my body, and if I don't want to be pregnant, give birth, and do the grunt work of raising kids, then he must not really love me enough...am I crazy? I have no idea what's going to happen with us, but at this point I'm almost hoping he will leave be because I make myself sick thinking about it CONSTANTLY. Has anyone here been in a similar situation? I need advice badly...thanks

Wasn't this something you kind of hammered out before you guy sgot married? What happened in your discussions about your married lives before you got married? Did it somehow just not get talked about?

It sounds as if you two have very different life dreams...and in this case, those different dreams are not compatible. It is rare to be able to compromise on having chldren or not, although I DO know of one woman here who did not want children, and her H eventually settled for having a teenaged exchange student live with them.

Most of the time though, I think two people who are diametrically opposed on something so basic to life plans as having or not having kids are better off finding someone with more compatible desires.

Hi.
It's not that he doesn't love you enough. He could say the same to you...that you don't love him enough to fulfill his dreams...right? This is something you should have discussed before you married. Or, did you say you would have children with him, and then change your mind?

Hi again,
We talked about it before getting married, but it was in "someday we'll have kids" way. I was never really crazy about the idea of having them, but I thought someday I'd magically wake up & want to have babies. But that's not happening and I don't think it ever will...

Your only mistake was in not asking him, wayy before marriage, if he would still want to marry you if you NEVER wanted kids.

Now you two are at an impasse. I am a woman who never wanted children and I used to think this too:

"And my feeling is, if he doesn't love me enough to respect how I feel about my body, and if I don't want to be pregnant, give birth, and do the grunt work of raising kids, then he must not really love me enough...am I crazy? "

And you are not crazy. I asked my husband why ANY MAN would want to put a woman thru gettting big fat and pregnant and ruining her body only to grunt out a baby with the pain, blood, and complications, then raise it for 20 years.

You know what he said? He said "most men dont really want children but the ones who do are selfish and do not care about the woman and what she will have to go thru".

I still see many women who WANT children even with all the pain, etc. And men who want them too. your man needs to find a woman who wants to get big fat and pregnant, plop out a baby or two for him, and raise it for him. He can find many women who will be glad to do this with him but it ain't you.

You ignored a basic compatability issue in the beginning and now you have to have all the pain of breaking up the marriage if he wont change his mind about children.

Get a tubal ligation ASAP after your divorce and tell the next man you dont want kids RIGHT UP FRONT so you dont make the same heartbreaking mistake.

Stella paints her usual picture of black and white, doom and gloom.

You may not want children now, but it's possible that you may change your mind. My W and I both decided before we got married that we absolutely didn' twant kids.
Guess what? we have 2 of them now, one the old fashioned way, one via adoption. WOuldn't trade it for anything.

Stella should probably thank her lucky stars that her mother was willing to get big fat and pregnant and ruin her body. Otherwise, we wouldn't have her here doling out her bits of wisdom...

In any case, there are other couples on MB that are struggling with the same issues, it does not necessarily mean divorce. It just means it's an unresolved issue. And perhaps unresolvable.

And of course, your argument was about your body and such, the two of you could always adopt, which avoids the "body" issue, and still have kids. Frankly, I'd adopt before I ever had kids the old fashioned way...

So there are multiple paths out in front of you there, it's not just black and white.

True, i forgot about adoption....I dated a guy once who wanted kids and I told him i would be open to adoption....(he was not open to it) so I would have done that at one point....plus adoption helps our world. Gives kids a nice home. Who may not have one otherwise.

I am in a similar situation. We have been married less than one year. Before marriage we DID talk about children, multiple times, and decided AGAINST having them. We were both happy with this decision. I have given it no thought since then...until a week ago when he said that he changed his mind, in large part because a year ago his brother committed suicide, so he is thinking in different terms now. He said that he absolutely wanted kids and could not live his life without knowing that it was a possibility! I was in total shock. I am sick over this, as i thought that this was a non-issue. He actually sees divorce as the only option because he does not think there is any possibility that I could change my mind (truth is, although I do not want kids at this time, I could change my mind...before I ever met him, I wanted children badly, then later changed my mind after we met! What's to say that won't happen again? Especially since he said he is not ready for them for another 5-10 years (he's 28, I'm 33)). I have asked him to go to counselling but he refuses, he says that this is an issue that we should be able to resolve on our own, and that if he have to go seek outside help, it's over! We have the BEST relationship and are so happy, in love, best friends, soulmates. I don't see it as black and white as he does, but he refuses to seek guidance from outside sources about potential possibilities. If anyone else gives you sage advice, keep me posted, I could use it!

Jaye,
I was thankful to see your reply because I am in a similr situation and mnaybe you can help me. My husband and I also discussed having children BEFORE we got married, several times, and decided hard core against it. He has now changed his mind, less than a year into the marriage. I still don't want kids, but I do not want to lose my partner, soulmate, love, and best friend. He sees divorce as the solution because this is an issue that, to him can never be resolved and is black and white. he refuses to co to counselling with me to see if there is a compromise or to make sure that we both feel 100% certain of our own positions on kids! How did you and your spouse work it out? You say that you dicussed it also before marriage and decided against kids, but now you have two of them and are very happy. How did that happen? Did you both change your minds, or one person and the other person eventually did too, or what? I'd really like any help here, because he is withdrawing from me and I can't lose this person. Background: I'm 33. He's 28, dated 2 years before marriage. No affairs, no addictions, good communicaton, emotional needs, the whole package. So this is really the only major issue. HELP!

I will toss out some tidbits. I don't spend much time on MB anymore, too much homework to do, so I apologize for the briefness of this reply...

o) You say "decided hard core against it". Do you think that's an accurate perception of the situation? Or just that you were hard core, and he was just wanting you to be happy?

o) Did some circumstance/situation arise, that brought about the change in opinion on his end?

o) You list several positive things about your marriage, but then also drop the little bombshell that this one item, w/o discussion or an opportunity to reflect is going to send the two of you to divorce court. At first blush, those statements don't seem to jive. Perhaps he doesn't see the relationship quite as rosy as you do, and sees changing courses in midstream as an easy out.

o) I would be concerned about having kids that forgets those commitments so easily. I would be worried that if you guys decided to have kids, he'd change him mind. In my W and I case, we had 8 years of marriage under our belt before we changed our minds.

o) We both changed our minds at approximately the same time. Within a day or so of each other. She looked at me one night and said, "You wanna" and I said "Oh boy, sex without BC... I wanna too". 3 days later she was pregnant. Darn it. Not that I don't love my daughter but I wanted a year or so of nightly practice... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

However, we had not discussed it recently at the time, it just happened.

o) On one hand, it is a black/white issue, because you either have a kid or you don't. You can't have one on a PT basis, or only half a kid.

o) If he wants a kid so bad, is he willing to stay at home and raise it? You go to work and he puts his career on hold? If that's not feasible, what exactly is his expectation?

o) You mention the things you don't want to lose. "partner, soul mate, best friend". Either one of 2 things is happening, possibly both. He doesn't see you in the same way, thus the loss is no big deal to him (or he's unwilling to admit it), and he's also unwilling to see if a temporary compromise (such as yes, to kids, but not for 5 more years, or somesuch) is viable.

With 20-20 hindsight, perhaps he's seeing that if the marriage doesn't produce kids, why be married? I mean, living together would've accomplished the same purpose, or just permanent "dating"... I'm not saying pro-creationg is a requirement of marraige, but it's hard to tell where he's at.

Have you explored your reasons why you don't want kids with him? And is he still unwilling to look at the situation in any other way? Because that says volumes right there.

It is late, I must go to bed, but I hope there's some food for thought in there somewhere. I'll check back in a couple days, and stew on it tonight. Perhaps I'll ask my wife, she knows everything, and see what she has to say.

Jaye,
I appreciate the input, even though it is time consuming. You could be right about many things that you said. The problem is that I don't know because he doesn't want to talk to me about it to see if we ARE on the same page with the rest of the relationship. I agree that making sure that the marrage is solid is a definite must before even considering kids. That is why I am so lost, because he seems not to know what he wants right now, including whether he wants to stay marriaed to me.

In answer to a few of your questions:
1) yes, we both decided against having kids, mutually. You sound very judgmental or suspicious about this, but it is true. In fact, as the engagement and marriage progressed, he was more against the idea of children than I was! It was a joint and mutual decision that we both talked about several times before marriage. Neither my husband nor I is foolish enough to marry someone based on a lie: i.e., I'll just pretend to want/not want kids to make him/her happy. I know that people do this frequently, but not us. That is one of the most fab things about our relationship: we talk about important things rather than just leaving them to chance.
2) I am not dropping the "bombshell" that this issue, without discussion, will send us to divorce court. I am the one who WANTS to discuss this and see if there is a compromise or what may really be going on (such as, as you mentioned, if he still wants to be in this relationship). Also, he is not someone who would use this idea just to "change course in midstream" as you mentioned. If he was unhappy with the relationship and wanted out, he would just tell me. We don't B.S. each other. There would be no reason to make this up as the reason behind wanting to leave. He's the one who thinks that this is an unresolvable issue that should be solved through a quick-fix. I don't see it so black-and-white. You're right: we either have kids or we don't. But he seems to be changing his mind at every turn (read below for why), and how can I trust that he won't change his mind again AFTER we have kids? Yes, people's feelings change, but some more quickly than others. All I am asking for him is a cahnce to think about this from my own end. He has been thinking about it for 6 mos, and I never knew. SO I had not given the matter any thought. I deserve at least an opportunity to re-evaluate my feeligns, too.
3) yes, he did have a major life-changing experience that is the basis behind his change of heart. His brother killed himself a year and a half ago. A part of my husband died when this happened and he has not been the same since. We have both gone to therapy to understand the grieving process and work through it, but it will take MUCH more time for him to accept this loss and overcome his depression. I understand and am supportive of him throughout. He tells me this all the time. He admits this is the reason behind his change of heart. I can see where it would be the case. First, I do not think that anyone should be making ANY life-changing decisi0ons when their thinking is blurred by grief. Second, instead of trying to talk it out and come to a compromise (as you suggested..ok, kids, but not for 5 years or so) he just blurted out one day that since he wanted them and I don't, we should divorce. He's hurting still from the loss of his brother, admits that he is lost and confused, and does not know what he wants. That is why I have to figure out if he still wants to be married to me. There is no reason to consider children if he believes the marriage is rotten to begin with.
4) yes, I have explored, on my own and with my therapist, why I don't want children. This is a work in progress, which is why i just want time to think about this.
5) I say this with all due respect: please don't be judgmental. You make my husband out to be a jerk and the two of us out to be idiots. Neither is the case. I was just wondering what your own experiences were regarding not wanting kids at first, then changing your mind. I did not ask for a grim assessment of my marriage. Thank you for taking time from homework to write.

It wasn't judgemental. You had more knowledge of the situation that wasn't shared, so I was sharing some thoughts.

You neglected the little detail that you knew why he suddenly wanted kids, so my assumption was that you didn't know why...

I agree with you that life changing situations shoudln't be made when one is stricken with strong emotions, either in looking at divorce as a quick-fix, or in having kids.

I suspect that when push comes to shove, he's casting about for ways to help assuage his grief, and not thinking clearly. I would be skeptical that he would actually push the issue to the edge.

I suspect that sticking wtih the grief counseling, and perhaps you having a private chat with the counselor about your concerns would be wise, so that the counselor (if he'll go again) can help him think clearly.

When my W and I were separated, hearing good advice from a neutral 3rd party was very helpful, even when it was the same thing that my W had been saying. Something just different about it coming from somebody else that doesn't have a vested interest in the relationship.

yes, you are right. From everything I have read and heard these past few weeks, everything that you said makes sense. I, too, have now come to realize, after the initial shock has worn off of me, that he is confused and in pain and does not know what he wants right now. Thus, as you said, he would be unlikely to make any major (or even minor) decisions in this state. Also, it is interesting that you mentioned talking to his therapist, because I did that just last night. I called and told her everything that was going on and mentioned that I was worried that he was seriously depressed, but that he does not know it or is in denial. She said that, although, of course, she is not at liberty to discuss his sessions with me, she wants me to know that she does look for signs of depression in him because he has a family history of it and it is this very history (his brother's recent suicide) that has triggered his own depression. You are also right that hearing advice from a neutral party who has no stake in any outcome, often does wonders, even when your spouse was there telling you the very same thing all along.

Thanx again for taking time from your busy schedule. These tidbits do help to educate and ease the pain knowing that others have been through it and survived.

This thread looks a little old, but I thought I'd post something here, because My W and I are at somewhat an impasse on this too. Some of you have said to insure that your marriage is solidly built before even considering kids. I'm 29 and she's 25. She says she's having the urges to have kids in her mind. Part of me is that I think she's jealous of all other women that she constantly sees are pregnant. (My sister, and other people in general.) I have told her I don't want kids for a while (a maybe someday thing...) We were o.k. with that. Then last year, she had an online A due to some pretty major issues in our major that both of us were avoiding. She is going to counseling to resolve those issues now, and we are slowly trying to put our marriage together. We'll have been married 6 years this August and known each other for 7. As far as ENs go, I feel that neither of our ENs have been solidly met. It takes two and I'm sure I haven't met all her ENs and I am fairly certain many of mine haven't been met since we've been married. Things are slowly getting better, I told her that maybe in a year or so I'd be ready, but I'm not so sure that's an accurate number anymore. With the EA just a few months ago, and us never really having a solid relationship let alone a solid physical relationship, I'm not sure 12 months or any number can be certain. Or even should be considered yet? She'll read this and probably get upset, because she wants kids badly. I wasn't sure if I wanted that level of responsability or not when we got married. Kids were the furthest thing from my mind and the "someday" was my best thought. Now, when she is somewhat seriously wanting them, our marriage doesn't resemble much of a solid marriage yet, and I'm extremely stressed and somewhat hurt that she could be thinking about having kids with me while still recovering from an EA. The time that I said a year was about a month or two after the EA was exposed (she had an online EA with a man a long distance away. ) she asked about having kids, and I said after this happening it's going to be at least a year if not more. She's almost counting down the days to one year being up. This almost feels like entrapment, I don't think she is thinking this, but I am feeling stressed because I feel like she is trying to trap me into our marriage by having kids. The last thing I want to do is put kids through the pain of life when our own lives aren't completely rebuilt. Right now I just feel emotionally drained day to day just supporting her needs. Not just because of now, but because of emotionally supporting her for the last 6 years. Very few of my ENs have been met in that time and I am working very hard to give her every bit of strength I have to support her. To throw the support of kids into the equation just doesn't help me at all, it's the whole straw on the camel's back thing. I don't want her to be hurt or think I lied to her, but I think to be realistic, I have to do what's best for our marriage and for me. Right now and for at a minimum of a year or two our marriage needs to be rebuilt and evaluated on a constant basis. I think we should grow to fully love each other and support each other on a mutual basis before considering the concept of kids. Since we've been married this has not been happening. It's finally started to get better with her in counseling now, and her recognizing there's some pretty major problems, but is a year or two really enough?
I'm feeling very overwhelmed with all of this. I take one day at a time, hoping the next will get better. I have little pain left of the EA itself, it's just mainly realizing now that neither of our EAs are being met, and I don't believe they're being met yet, or at the very least if hers are being met, mine aren't. How can I throw a life into this mix of chaos?

Honeybee,

Your husband says 5-10 years before he wants to start kids, right? Does he realize how old that will make you and the complications you will run into being over 35 with first time pregancy (even if you were so inclined as to get pregnant?)

Whitewolf, you are being the grown-up in your relationship. It would be relationship suicide to bring a child into an unstable marriage. You are doing the right thing by holding out. If it doesn't feel right in your gut, then it isn't right.

TurtleLove -

This is a pretty old post, but the subject is near and dear to my heart, so I thought I would add my 2 cents anyway.

I've known all my life that I do not want children. When I met my ex husband, we agreed that we did not want children. When we married (we're both Catholic), we paid lip service to the "open to children" questions in the pre-marital counseling sessions. We were so sure that we didn't want children, my XH got a vasectomy. I had tried several times before to get sterilized, only to be told by a condescending doctor that someday "I will change my mind."

We were married for almost 8 years when my XH had an affair with a newlywed. She adored children and wanted her own. I've never been much of a kid person - taking them on a case by case basis. He left for many reasons, but he did say to me that he regretted his vasectomy.

I had dated for awhile after our separation and divorce. I met a wonderful man who is also uninterested in having children and he makes me happy. I can say that I was finally, thankfully sterilized last year and no longer have to concern myself with contraception.

Unfortunately, there is no compromise when it comes to children. You can't have half a child - you're either in or you're out. Not only will your body and life never again be the same, you will in all likelihood be saddled with most, if not all the work of caring for the child(ren).

It's okay if you changed your mind - it is your right to change your mind. It is also your obligation to inform your spouse in the most ethical and compassionate way of your change in plans. It isn't fair to either of you to remain married, but at odds over this fundamental issue. If having children is important to him, let him go - there are many women out there who share his desire for parenthood. All children should be desperately wanted and loved - if you don't want children, it wouldn't be fair to you or your offspring. Don't allow yourself to be bullied into something you know in your heart is not for you.

Good Luck!