>Maybe we should have a online swap meet. Everybody post the crap in their house they want to purge, and pick out new stuff from others cast offs.

Trust me, there's nothing more I'd like to do than throw it all out, but folks around me are telling me to ease up and don't be so quick at the trigger. Funny how again the BS is told to avoid "triggers" with the WS, but then when it comes to things around the house that are triggers to ME, I'm told not to act in haste!

>I redid my bedroom, painted, new linens and rearranged the furniture. I haven't changed much else, it seems to really upset my OD when I do something. I just sorta quietly box stuff up.

Well I told my daughter tonight that we would go on a small shopping spree this weekend and pick out some new stuff to hang on the walls and possibly move some furniture around. Problem is, I can figure out how to arrange the Three Stooges with the velvet Elvis print along with the dogs playing poker picture! Now, those should get her attention!

>So it just upsets OD and has no effect on WH at all.

Ahh, he's a GUY...and we never recognize stuff like that anyway. We're the same ones that can't pick out a new hair style or new dress on our W's and yet you are expecting your WH to notice new drapes?

On the other hand, my WW will notice if the toilet paper roll has a crease in it!

Now that's the ticket! Maybe if I return to my slob days of singleness, she will notice that the house is a total dump and feel sorry for me and want to come in and clean up a little. I've already resorted to throwing my socks on the floor, so hopefully that is a start! Along with that, I'll just keep a six pack in the frige with some slim jims and some cheese. Hey, no fruit or veggies for me!

p47d

"Problem is, I can figure out how to arrange the Three Stooges with the velvet Elvis print along with the dogs playing poker picture!"

Bwahaahaaa!!!!!! That will get her attention all right.

Tuesday Afternoon:

WW is driving me crazy!

Went to daughters game last night and she shows up and wants to sit with me. Small talk then we leave and neither she nor I say a word of good-bye.

At home, she has taken a lot of stuff. Not furniture, but pictures and such. Kitchen is pretty bare and the walkin closet in the master bedroom is almost empty except for my stuff. Her dresser is also empty. It is very depressing to see all the stuff gone.

Rough night sleeping too. Then I get to work and get a call from her. She is crying and saying that she was supposed to pay for her entire lease of 6 months, but now she doesn't want to do it. She is having second thoughts. She says she does not know if she can live without me and and it is driving her nuts to be all alone in her apartment. Said she misses me and the kids. Also said for me to not burn any bridges.

She said that she wanted to get away and see what it would be like living without me and so far, she is not liking it. Of course, her main enabler which is her best friend has told her to take her time and that these feelings are only normal. Translated, this means, hang in there, you will get used to it in a couple of weeks and then you won't miss him at all! She is a real skank!

Things did and do sound somewhat promising, but I also told her that I did not want her to come home unless she is willing to forgive and start to restore. Told her again how much I am hurting over this.

Fast forward to now and she calls and will call later because she is having a hard time filling out the separation papers! She needs all my financial data. No big deal, but I was hoping she would have second thoughts on filing, but I guess her skanky best friend has convinced her to move ahead with things.

She did talk to the realtor and they have agreed to let her rent the apt. on a monthly basis, so she is not bound for the entire 6 months. Her realtor is a christian and the owner of the house is a pastor who invited her to his church. So maybe God is working in strange ways and will lead others to her in hopes of making her see the light.

Anyway, I'm bummed right now that she wants to move on with the paperwork. I was hoping that she would hold off, but I guess those feelings for now have passed, again.

I will agree that this is better than her yelling and saying there is no hope at all. But I do plan on making some interior changes this weekend.

p47d

Hmmmm, that sounds interesting. Did you say, "Well, honey I'd love for you to come home but only if you want to forgive and move forward with recovery?"

You are doing so well!

P47D,

I think you are doing well. I am partial to the Velvet Elvis, it is a decorators final... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> Or you could go for taste. Buy some prints or paintings that you like and that your kids like and start to make your home a place YOU and your children enjoy.

I would definitely move her dresser out to the garage, and move yours into the bedroom. There are a lot of things you can do to make this YOUR home right now.

I think you are doing much better than you realize and you should be proud of yourself. You are not a failure either. You may not have done as well as you could/should as an H but you were and are willing to step up to the plate. P47D, that is the sign of a winner, not a loser.

Hang in there.

God Bless,

JL

coachswife:

>Hmmmm, that sounds interesting. Did you say, "Well, honey I'd love for you to come home but only if you want to forgive and move forward with recovery?"

Yes, I did say that I did not want her to come home until she has made a final decision. She did say that she has to do this to find out or make sure. So, she is not coming home yet and may not. It will depend on how isolated she feels and if she becomes really broken over this issue and then decides to repent.

>You are doing so well!

It is all relative I guess. I don't see it as that well, but it is the best I can hope for right now. We had a long talk on the phone last night talking about all the assets and their worth since she needs this data to fill out the separation paperwork. After we get done, she then says she might not file it and save some money. So, I am forever hopeful.

But thanks for your kind thoughts!!

p47d

Hey P - They are all laughing about your decorating over on the What are men thinking thread. Have you noticed?

JL:

>Buy some prints or paintings that you like and that your kids like and start to make your home a place YOU and your children enjoy.

This is exactly what I am going to do this weekend.

>I would definitely move her dresser out to the garage, and move yours into the bedroom. There are a lot of things you can do to make this YOUR home right now.

This is another thing I am going to do. I'm sure it will get her attention. I'm going to buy a new bedspread too.

When she asks what is up with all this, I plan on simply telling her that it is just to painful to have this stuff around and having to look at it each day, makes it incredibly difficult!

>I think you are doing much better than you realize and you should be proud of yourself. You are not a failure either. You may not have done as well as you could/should as an H but you were and are willing to step up to the plate. P47D, that is the sign of a winner, not a loser.

Well thanks again, but this really isn't about winning and losing. There are no real winners here, only losers. It is never a good thing, and that is what makes it doubly tough.

But despite that, thanks for your encouragement. It is greatly appreciated.

p47d

Hang in there.

<Ahem>

Monday AM

Finally, I have some good news on my part.

As those of you who have been following this thread know, my WW moved out last week. All last week we were still talking but it was guarded. Late last week, I thought WW was gone for good as she was again talking about me finding someone else and her getting on with her life.

I went grocery shopping on Sunday morning and was in a real state bitterness. I was really beginning to hate this whole situation and hating my WW for what she has done. Got home around noon and WW calls.

She is on the phone crying and begging me to take her back and to let her come home. She has had enough she said and she has been miserable all week. This time she says things are different. She sounds repentant and admits that what she did was crazy. In her words, what was she thinking.

Of course, I am skeptical since she has done this two other times. I asked her why should I now believe her or think this is genuine. She then tried to assure me that this time it WAS different. Being away from me and the kids showed her exactly what she would be losing. She said she cannot afford to lose me or the kids. Our life together is to important. She wants to grow old with me, and see our grandchildren. The pain she would have had to endure would have been to much. She did mention the OM and I'm sure they talked over the last week. She told me that they both agreed that it was totally wrong and that they have inflicted way to much hurt on all the families concerned. She said it just can't be. The guilt was to great.

Again, I pressed her for some concrete answers and to my satisfaction, I believe she is repentant. She is now admitting what she did was totally wrong and is now ready to forgive and forget. Before, she could not forgive me for 4 things in this matter, and now she says that she is able to forgive me. As if I did anything wrong in the first place, but she is at least at a point where she is willing to put it to rest. She is willing to admit her guilt and now press on.

I let her come home. I'm not going to grind my WW into the ground and want a whole list of things from her. At some point, I have to forgive her and also move on. I cannot dwell on the past nor hold it against her. It will serve no good purpose if I continually hold this over her head or expect her to jump through a bunch of hoops.

On the other hand, I am guarded. She is from all I've seen yesterday, a changed person. Her demeanor is definitely different from the other times and this is why I really believe this time is different.

Her point in leaving was, if she was away, then and only then would she really know what she wants, and according to her, there are to many if's and questions of uncertainty. Moving to the OM's town she said would accomplish nothing as she would be losing so much on the other side. She said it was not worth all the pain and struggle, not to mention the added pain and damaged reputation of having left me and our children, and then it all might not work out for her anyway.

Lastly, when she came in the house, she had put her wedding rings back on, which was another indicator to me that she is now a changed person.

She has stated that God had spoken to her the entire week to the point where she was miserable at every turn. She had a flat tire on Friday and there was no one to call to help her. A police officer did come by and help her, but she was really left alone in this situation. The place she was renting was owned by a pastor of a local church and they were praying for her too. So, at just about every turn, God was putting his people in her path.

As she said last night, Lazarus has been resurrected from the grave. She believes God allowed this whole thing to happen and now has given her a vision of her future. One of those visions was not pleasant and had been filled with way to much pain and uncertaintly. The other vision was on of reconciliation and restoration to me, her children, her family and friends.

I won't even say I'm keeping my fingers crossed because I do not believe in that stuff, but I am hoping and praying that she has at last found peace and can live with her decision. It is still going to be hard, and she said it would take some time before she is 100 percent back to her old self, but at least she is on her way! Only time will tell, but at least she has had a taste of the other side, and the grass wasn't any greener, and in fact was a littler browner.

God does work in strange ways and yet is also more than able to turn a curse into a blessing. He deserves the glory here. I really did nothing. Again, He showed who was ultimately in control.

p47d

Hurray for P47D. Thank you so much for the update...it really helps me when I've been posted to such hurting people all day.

I think she's turning the corner.

I'll be back in a second to edit this post to add a link to an article you might want to share with your wife...it is dead on with her thinking.

[color:"blue"] American Values Article - Does Divorce lead to happiness [/color]

Though it may seem like she's just playing the odds right now and if she had contact she'll have some withdrawal (again), she seems to have obtained resolve (and a sense of the overused term "closure"). It will take a few weeks/months but she is soooo gonna love you for the way you stood up for your marriage, your family and her. I'm betting your marriage ends up like mine...stronger than it ever was. You've been the ROCK. You've been the LIGHTHOUSE. That is going to be admired and respected soon enough.

Mr. Wondering

This is good news P47. And I know you dont want to put a list of stuff on her. But, my wife said the same things when she first came home and I allowed her to without setting a few things straight. If I had of set these things straight, we might have had a real reconciliation, instead of a false one.

First, recovery is NOT for amateurs. While we are all great on here for helping in Plan A and Plan B...recovery requires professional help. Seek it. Your pastor or the counselor. Get both of your butts in there ASAP!!! Forgiving is fine, but forgetting is NOT an option. You can never forget, so it will take soem help to get the two of you thru some of this and to help you both fully understand what you need to do from here on out to protect each other and to help build trust and love. Please do not underestimate this!! You need a pro-marriage counselor that understands these principles that Dr. Harley has outlined.

Sure, you may still want a NC to the OM. Maybe not. That really is upto YOU! Just be sure to express to your wife that contact must end forever. No checking in to see how OM is doing. He is gone forever.

It sounds like she tried to run away from God, and ran smack into Him. I told you that as long as you did what the Lord asked, that He would take up your cause. The Lord is still goingto ask you to lead. So do so. Get her to counseling. Get her back into church. You must become her pastor.

You have a great opportunity here, but BOTH of you are going to have to understand that Satan is NOT going to take this lying down. He is going to attack. You two will need, with help from your pastor, to gird up and prepare for that. To commit right now that whatever Satan throws at you, you will endure. He will seed doubts and anger in both of you. He will author confusion. As the leader, you must protect your wife now. You do so by constantly praying over her and your family, and asking the Lord to protect. Everytime he shows up, call out Satan and tell him, in the name of Jesus, that he must leave. And he HAS TO leave. He will come back. But for that moment, he must leave.

Just as you had a plan for the affair and saving your marriage, you must now have a recovery plan. Share what you have learned on here about marriage. Let her read Dr. Harley's books. Lead her to understanding that what has happened is not impossible to overcome, and that your marriage just may be more than either of you ever expected.

I am happy for this turn of events. The Lord is good! I pray that He leads you the rest of the way home.

In His arms.

Mortar:

>First, recovery is NOT for amateurs. While we are all great on here for helping in Plan A and Plan B...recovery requires professional help. Seek it. Your pastor or the counselor. Get both of your butts in there ASAP!!! Forgiving is fine, but forgetting is NOT an option.

I do realize and so does she that at some point we will have to get back into counseling. Right now though, she is in shock and numb as she says.

She said that one week did more for her than 5 months of counseling. Now, this may be true as she sees it, but I'd like to get to the real causes of why this all happened. But right now, she does not want to relive those things. She says that it is all to painful to go back in to and dig up all the dirt. I know that at some point, we will HAVE to do this. I'm not talking about a year down the road but maybe in a few weeks. She has already indicated that she should probably go back and get some individual counseling. Remember, she has a lot of guilt to deal with here and this will be a tough thing for her to get over.

>Sure, you may still want a NC to the OM. Maybe not. That really is upto YOU! Just be sure to express to your wife that contact must end forever. No checking in to see how OM is doing. He is gone forever.

This will be done. She indicated last night that she realizes that it cannot exist, but I will enforce the NC forever piece, and she should also tell her best friend not to mention anything to her about him either.

>You have a great opportunity here, but BOTH of you are going to have to understand that Satan is NOT going to take this lying down. He is going to attack. You two will need, with help from your pastor, to gird up and prepare for that.

I am well aware of this. Satan usually attacks after a victory and I will remind her of this too. As for our pastor, at this point, she is not sure she wants to go back to our church. There are a lot of hurt feelings there and that too will have to take some time to heal. I'm sure she will speak with our pastor and at that point we will see where it goes. I'm not going to run from the church just because she isn't comfortable, but if she doesn't feel welcome, or if her hurt is to great, we will have to find a new church.

>Just as you had a plan for the affair and saving your marriage, you must now have a recovery plan. Share what you have learned on here about marriage. Let her read Dr. Harley's books. Lead her to understanding that what has happened is not impossible to overcome, and that your marriage just may be more than either of you ever expected.

She has even stated as so the fact that she believes our marriage will be greater than it was before. I will try and ease some Harley books on her, but I don't want to overwhelm her at the moment either. It is still one day at a time here.

I know we and mostly she will be attacked in the days, weeks, and months to come. Hopefully, we can build on things and overcome future adversity. I really do believe this time that she means what she said. She appears to be a totally different person. Then again, the last two times, she said similar things, although the last time, even though she said she was back to work on things, she removed her rings. She put them back on this time and I never mentioned anything about it either. She did it on her own, so obviously, she is feeling different.

Time will tell though.

Thanks again for all your help and I'm sure I will continue to need help and advice!

p47d

Wonder:

If you're still around reading, I'll give you a call when I get out of work today.

Thanks for all your help!

Real recovery is HARDER than anything else attached to infidelity....

But I believe you can do it ... you have it in you and you have the knowledge and you have the Holy Spirit

One of our tools we began not long after recovery began ... we hold hands every morning and pray together .... it has saved our butts over and over .... not just about recovery issues (we are 10 years into recovery by the way !!!) .... but the simple joining of hands and lowering of heads and uttering "thanks" or "help" or "what is going on here?" ... really gets H and I off to a good start every day

P47,

Good stuff! but I did want to say that counselors like Steve Harley wouldnt rehash all that mess right now anyway. What a good counselor would do right now is help both of you set-up a structure and goals for moving forward. One that both of you can agree on. The digging into the past will come later (if at all) once your marriage is on better footing.

So, I still say two or three sessions with SH would do wonders for you guys,as he is the master of coming up with a plan for moving forward.

Anyway, you have been a blessing to your wife and the Lord is definitely smiling down on you.

In His arms.

P47D,

To echo MM's and Pep's comments, recovery is actually the hardest thing and that is why Harley came up with plan b to preserve as much love as possible, because you are going to need it.

I "third" the idea of counseling and I think you need to sit your W down and explain why it is important. Not to relive the A, but to LEARN from it so that BOTH of you can make the marriage better. She feels guilty now but what you want her to do is move to remorse. Further, she needs to understand that you are willing to work WITH her to improve the marriage and that means you BOTH have work to do. What you expect is that she will be on your side of the table as a friend/spouse/ and eventually lover, not on the opposite side of the table.

As she gains confidence in your words, and that seeking 'why' is NOT a way to punish her but for you to learn and change, she will become more and more you closed and dearest protector. She needs to know that YOU need her help and you are willing to help.

Once you two have discussed this, the discussion of a counselor will become clearer to her, and it will help you two to select a counselor that is focused on the future while using the past to help you both. She will want to avoid talking about the past, but as she learns that you plan to use this information to make the marriage better NOT beat her up, you will see remarkable changes.

Congratulations and good luck.

God Bless,

JL

Pepper:

>But I believe you can do it ... you have it in you and you have the knowledge and you have the Holy Spirit

Personally, I have little to do with it. The Lord has to be the pilot, not the co-pilot. I will let Him drive from now on.

>but the simple joining of hands and lowering of heads and uttering "thanks" or "help" or "what is going on here?" ... really gets H and I off to a good start every day

Where I failed over the years was to be the spiritual head of our family. So given my new direction, it will be important to pray with W and DD before I or we head out to do our thing for the day. Something like a mini devotional. I do believe that will help more than any counseling.

Thanks for your input.

p47d