Ok, I’ve posted here when things were really going down hill in our marriage. I found the best support and advice I could have ever hoped for. Those of you who know me as Fooled99 know what I’ve gone through. If not, read my posts.

We're trying Retrovaille

"nastygram"

Particularly, the Wonderings were a godsend for me. Having just gone through a very difficult sale of our house and move (made much more so by WW), I haven’t been able to post as I would like.

WW has been taking medication for her Bipolar disorder, even though she still claims she doesn’t have it. It’s seemed to stabilize her somewhat. She moved out in July, 05, after promising me she would cut all contact with other men, and then disapproving of my anger when she broke that promise. We recently sold our home and moved into separate places. I’ve had some contact with her but the root of our problems still hasn’t changed. She thinks there is nothing wrong with all her emotional attachments / affairs with other men including flying off to the west coast to visit them (one northern California, the other southern California, and probably a couple or so here) and spending the night with them ALONE. They’re just friends of course (yea), and she sees no problem with this. Because of this I’ve told her that until she sees what damage this is doing to me and our marriage, I simply have to avoid contact with her. We have no kids, together or separate. She would get so angry when I try to discuss it with her, it’s simply futile so I’ve stopped trying for now.

OK here’s the new situation. She just learned only two weeks ago that she has breast cancer. When she told me the docs suspected it, I told her I would be by her side and do everything I possibly can to help her through this, if that’s the diagnosis. She called me right after receiving the pathology report from her Bro’s house who is out of town for several months. I knew by her tone what the diagnosis was. I said I was coming right over as she was very upset.

I’ve always suggested to her that it’s not if, but when, she comes out of the fog that we will resume working on our marriage. After learning of this diagnosis, I told her that as her husband, all our marriage problems would be put on the back burner until WE get through this. It’s been almost a Plan A all over again as I don’t do anything to upset her by discussing my feelings, and I tell her how wonderful she is. I’ve taken her to all her other testing that has to be done before a treatment can be decided, and discussed everything with the docs in an effort to get a handle on this. Her mother died at age 37 of breast cancer. WW was 10 years old at the time and is now 39. So far, all other tests have revealed no problems except for the colonoscopy that revealed two small polyps that were removed and benign. We still don’t know about the MRI. Even so, the Cancer seems to be somewhat wide spread in her breasts (stage 2) and I’m afraid she’ll need a Mastectomy and Chemotherapy which will cause her to loose her hair. She’s already so vain about her looks. Her doctor tells her, as do others, to go out and have a great time every single day. They don’t realize that her idea of that is a lifestyle that promotes bad health, going to bars, smoking and drinking.

After two weeks she seems to be taking this better than I am, and we’ve become closer than we have in quite some time. I’ve spent many nights with her, but nothing sexual. I don’t know the status of the other men because I don’t want to bring it up, however, I have a feeling it’s still going on with the guy in northern California. Just a few weeks ago she went on another trip to visit him. She has a handful of friends here that support her also, telling her to live it up!

Just as I think things couldn’t be going any better for US, from an R standpoint, she decides she’s going out with her girlfriends (?), Friday and Saturday night. The very first opportunity she’s had since the diagnosis and all these tests. Obviously, I’m livid about this but haven’t expressed it. I’ve taken such good care of her, been the man I know I should be, and been so genuinely concerned and supportive. We’ve gone to church together and I pray for her all the time. She thanks me over and over. Then when the time comes that she can take a break from all the stress from this medical stuff, she totally isolates and ignores me without even giving it a second thought.

Here’s my dilemma. I thought I was doing what is right by dropping all our marital problems for now, and perhaps I am, but the whole point in Plan B is to stop their “cake eating”. I don’t know if I’m doing the right thing after all. I know she loves my change in attitude because I don't get angry at her when I'm betrayed, but it’s killing me as I feel I’m just being used!

Does the discovery of an illness as bad as cancer merit an entire change in my plan? I can only do so much for her; it’s me I’m worried about also. I feel I’m re-living this whole traumatic event over again; however, we’re closer than ever, but only when she wants to be! I sure could use some advice!!!

Fooled

This is an outrage. Even after your support she is still doing this, and after she promised not to. Ok, well, you know what the right answer is but you want someone else to say it.

As regards trips to the doctor, she can call a friend. You are not a "friend". When she is too weak from treatment to drive home, the hospital receptionist can call a cab for her.

This is not a medical emergency, so it is not like refusing first aid or not calling 911. Your pulling out has nothing to do with the quality of her treatment or the seriousness of her sickness. Rather, what you are doing now is simply "being there" for her. Stop it, and tell her why you are stopping it. Let her (try to) get her needs met elsewhere.

I have dealt with my WH's kidney failure and infidelity and I wouldn't wish it upon anyone. The emotions involved are in so much conflict. I have anger and resentment at his treatment of me and the girls and yet I feel so terribly sorry for the state of his health. There are huge financial implications for us because of this. At a time of his life when he should have been living the quiet life, taking care of his body and soul, he chose to stray and live a double life. The stress he placed upon himself has pushed him onto dialysis. He was stable for 5 years before he embarked on his affair.

I find myself in constant turmoil. I care too much about him. He has self-destructed in front of me and I am powerless to help.

I don't know what you should do. Interesting that it was to you she turned when she got the results. Almost like she knew she could depend on you. I hope she gets better. TT

You said:


well, that's accurate .... you are being used

if you offer her your support... expect nothing in return

therefore ... limit your support to what you can 'spare' without feeling overwhelmed

if you begin to feel resentment or generally grumpy about this ... then it's time to back off and allow her to get support elsewhere ... at least for a time

learn your own limits ... and support her or back off as your limits dictate ... your needs are important too

do all of your self-care guilt free

be aware of your own Taker and Giver ... and if your Taker starts yelling at you to Take better care of YOU ... that's OK! Do it!

No good deed goes unpunished. After all of this she is still showing you her true colors. Apparently she has no problem about seeing other men and letting you take care of her. Unfortunately she still disrespects you and your marriage and sees nothing wrong with it. My friend you wish to have an apple turn into an orange. It is not going to happen. Protect yourself and let her friends take care of her if that is so important to her. No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change.

OK, I get the message. One thing I want to clear up is she never directly asked me to help and support her until after I had already offered. I told her I “was going to do this”, because I’m still her husband. It seemed like the appropriate thing to do at the time, but now I’m not so sure.

Having said that, I have seen many positive changes in her towards me in just the past two weeks. We have become closer than we have in almost two years. As I said, it’s been almost like plan A all over again and I’m wondering if I should stay that course in hopes she will realize her feelings for me again, as her husband. She’s already suggesting I go with her to visit her family that lives out of state for Thanksgiving. My only concern is she sees our relationship now as one of “just friends”, rather than husband and wife. “Just friends”, is not the relationship I want at all, but on the other hand, perhaps that’s where it should start to rebuild.

I’ve discussed “boundaries” in our marriage with her and some of her family who’ve told me that she has no idea what “boundaries” are. She’s even admitted that herself. She sees nothing wrong in her actions of having these EA’s with other men which I suspect, in at least one case, is more than that. Below is a quote from an email she wrote to the wonderings making reference to this:


Again, I’ve viewed this as perhaps a blessing in disguise that would bring us back together. This may just be wishful thinking, or perhaps selfish thinking on my part, but other than this weekend’s events, it was working.

Should I stay the course for a little longer, but perhaps tell her that I’m upset about how I’ve been disregarded when she doesn’t need me? I don’t know?

Fooled99 - just a few thoughts for you to mull over.

Good Samaritan....DOES because there is a need, and because you are following God, not because you "expect something in return.

"For better or for worse, in sickness and in health...." They were YOUR vows as well....to thine own self be true.

SHOW your faith.....love those who despitefully use you....mirror Christ in sacrificial love that LOVES regardless of whether or not the recipient of that love responds in kind.

Will you look back at this time as a time that you witnessed with your life and actions "Christ's love," or when you turned your back on your wife during what may be God's last "wake up call" to her?

Our time is short, regardless of how many years we have....eternity is long....make the most of the time God grants us here and KNOW that our "life may be forfeit at any time"....we are NOT promised to be alive tomorrow.

What your wife needs now is YOU, the man God chose for her in her 'hour of need.'

What you need is Philippians 4:13, God's promise to YOU.

God bless.

Thanks ForeverHers,

I understand BOTH views on this situation and I appreciate you confirming what I think is the right thing to do. I’ve always stated that my commitment to my wife that I made before God, is irrelevant to her commitment, or lack there of. Just because she may not have meant what she swore to before God has no relevance to my commitment that I made. There seem to be very few people who feel this way, and I just don’t get it. I’ve always stated to others, “What part of for better or for worse, in sickness and in health, and till death do us part, don’t you understand”. Just because she may not have meant it, does not mean that I didn’t. There was no addendum attached to our vows that allowed for any exceptions to this. I’m quite sure of this because we have the ceremony on tape. This has been my underlying dilemma. Her Cousin, who is a Psychiatrist, and a good friend of mine, always reminds me of this and firmly shares these beliefs. He’s been married for 25 years, but there have been many rough times for them including now. He also states that even so, he doesn't know if he could keep his vows in the face of infidelity, even though it would be the right thing to do. Her other Cousin who is an Attorney, and also a very good friend of mine tells me this is totally wrong. If someone is causing such major grief in your life, you shouldn’t have to deal with it, and that Marriage is not a charity. I respect both her Cousin’s opinions, but agree more with the first.

Here is another quote my WW wrote to the Wonderings about her marriage vows:



She’s also implied in an indirect way, that her cancer could be the result of stress brought on by our marriage problems. (Not her smoking 2 packs of cigarettes a day, living an unhealthy lifestyle, and having a family history of cancer) I have to bite my tongue in reminding her that her choices are what have caused the stress in our marriage in the first place. She’s getting individual counseling as she has before, but I believe the sessions consists of her trying to get validation of what a controlling monster I am, rather than accepting any responsibility for her actions. If trying to set reasonable boundaries in our marriage makes me controlling, then perhaps I am. I think this has been counter-productive, because it doesn’t deal with the true problem. She states that they tell her to take care of herself and not try to deal with OUR problems. Of course, she’s lied about so much to me, who knows if this is true or not. She also states that her PDoc says she's not Bipolar, but I was right there when he made the diagnosis to both of us. If they only knew the truth about our situation, I believe we could get somewhere, but she isn’t going to offer it! That's why I believe that IC for her may be counter productive to our marriage.

My vows that are my word which means everything to me versus my own health, sanity, and well being. This is my dilemma.

Thanks for reminding me of what I know is the right thing to do. It's often hard to be "Christ Like", even though that's what we should strive for! After all, we're humans with imperfections, but that shouldn't keep us from trying to achieve this. I will take your thoughts to heart.

Thanks and God Bless You!

Fooled99

this is a tough situation.

I would consult the pro's...why? well you say you are in plan b but you have constant contact...

and the quagmire of your ww's cancer. and her still choosing infidelity over marriage.

and the whole confusion of those issues need a real professional. Get help asap!

Call them and schedule an appointment.

Honestly I am at a loss for words here...except for saying that if you feel badly, or your selfworth is plummeting, limit contact. It's up to you...nobody makes you feel bad without your permission...cancer or not.

Don't tell her you are upset .... if you are upset STOP helping her....

drop your expectations that helping her might turn her into a different woman ... it is not going to happen that way

help her only when you can do so with a peaceful heart ... when you expect nothing in return

Just Peachy,

Just to clarify, I've only had constant contact since her diagnosis about 2 weeks ago.

Thanks for your suggestions!

Fooled

Well, WW told me that she had a Doctor's appointment tomorrow at 2:00 to review all the tests and asked if I would go with her as she has a hard time remembering important things. I told her at first I would go but then later told her I thought she should find someone else to go with her. Her response to me was very calmly saying and without asking why: "well, I guess we have nothing more to talk to each other about then".

CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT???

I'm just devistated!

Fooled.

Of course I can believe that.

What you have failed to do is read your own words describing her behavior and beliefs. You are here for her convenience nothing more. She will use you if you allow and use someone else if you won't. She clearly states in the quotes you posted that she does not view marriage as an exclusive commitment.

Further, you take your vows seriously but fail to recognize that even in the Bible infidelity is a reason for terminating a marriage. You are the one in denial, not her.

I think if you want to help her because it makes YOU feel good, then do so. If you feel you are being used and feel resentment, then don't do it. Because [quote] Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die. [/qoute]

I truely believe that you should back off and ONLY help her IF she asks for it AND you can do it with a clear understanding that you are doing it because you want to and she needs it.

Hope these ideas are of help.

God Bless,

JL

Huh?!?! I am totally confused. How can you even ask a question like "CAN YOU BELIEVE THAT???"

Of course I believe it. You FIRST say you will "be there" for her, then you PROVE that she can't depend on you by reniging on the promise and telling her to "get someone else." I'm afraid I would come to the same conclusion your wife apparantly did.

Do you want to married to this woman, or do you simply want others (those of us here) to NOT say anything when YOUR actions are detrimental to any marriage, especially one that is very tenuous due to infidelity?

I KNOW it hurts. All BS's that "opt" for recovery know how "unfair" it seems. It takes a long time to recover, to change behaviors, etc. But you MUST be consistent or what you say and what you do will have NO meaning or trustworthiness.

Call her up and tell her you will be there for her Doctor's appointment to support her. Tell her you reacted badly to the stress and ask her to forgive you for seemingly abandoning her. Remember, we are NOT talking about "saving your marriage," or "reconciling instead of divorcing" right now. We are talking about "Being there" for a child of God who is hurt and bleeding. SHOW your faith, don't use it to manipulate. It may be HARD, but it IS what God tells us to do and God NEVER tells us to something without also providing us all the resources necessary to DO what He has told us to do.

God bless.