Sounds like you just want to find your self esteem solely in the eyes of some man. Until you find it in your own eyes, you don't need to get serious about anyone - except for really looking at yourself.

I may be all wet, but I truly don't see this as a self-esteem issue. I moved very fast with BF, and we went places that in hindsight, my beliefs shouldn't have let me go. If I didn't have the beliefs I have, things would be moving along just peachy at this point. But I do.

But the thing is, I don't need him for my self-esteem. I love him. We have spent a lot of time together over the last 4 months, we have shared a lot, I find him funny, and caring, and sexy, and intelligent, and I just really enjoy being with him. And I have very much grown to care about his family (both his kids and his parents) and enjoy hanging out at their place. And I don't think I could ever get tired of being close to him.

We've had issues--we've done a fair job working through them (until this one, which is a HUGE one--and is entirely brought on by me). I thought we were showing signs of having what it takes to make a lasting relationship.

Summing it up, I truly do love him. I care about him, his happiness, his future. I want to please him. I just can't put him or his desires before God.

LL

Amen. Quoted, because it bears repeating.

I think what C was saying was that at least by implication in some of your posts, you don't feel "complete" or like you can't live w/o a man. Which is not true.

And there is that little thing called self-control...

I'm glad to hear that all is not doom and gloom.

Jaye,

It's not that I don't feel "complete", but let me try and explain who I am. There are different personality types out there, some are outgoing and enjoy the company of hanging with groups of friends, and some are more homebodies. I fit the latter. Personality tests even show me as one of those idealistic "thinker" people who are most content that way.

While I'm quite a talker, I really am not outgoing, I don't care to be, I never have been from the time I was a small child. So, hanging out with the "girls" doesn't and never really has appealed to me, not even as a teen. Unfortunately, this has left me with fewer friends and more reliant on a partner than most people. I spent 20 years married to an alcoholic and he and my kids were much "it" for me. I didn't find myself praying for bunches of friends to help me; I spent at least 10 of those years praying that God would change his heart and make him the Christian husband I so longed for. But for whatever reason, it didn't happen.

So now I'm divorced. My oldest child is in college. My youngest has issues beyond belief and refuses to let me help her or really even get close at this point. I'm doing all I can to maintain an open line of communication. But that does NOT include one-on-one time spent hanging with her doing things because SHE doesn't not want to. So, I'm pretty much a 40-yr-old single person who really has very little interest in building this network of friends to hang out with because it's not even something I truly enjoy.

But I find myself alone, at times like this, with zero support system. I'm not very close to my parents, emotionally or in actual miles. My sis and I are close but she does NOT understand my views on this no-sex-before-marriage thing. So she's not much help. My church is small, most of the women there are married with younger families. I just don't feel like they understand at all. They've not been where I am. The few coworkers who I'm more friends with at work also share my sis's views. So right now I feel like I'm drowning, like there's no one out there who understands. And that includes my BF.

But back to having a man. The reason I want so much to have a man (a Christian HUSBAND by the way, not just any man) in my life is because I know my personality and my interests. For a person who likes to be around home or maybe enjoying dinner and a movie out, but not some social gathering, who is a snuggler to the extreme, and who admittedly has a decent sex drive, I truly think I'm wired to be in a marriage...I don't feel like God called me to be single (because unlike most of the world who can be single AND be sexual, I can't). I struggle with anger sometimes because I WANTED to be married, I WORKED to try and save my marriage, I didn't ask to be single at 40 in the first place. But what is further frustrating me right now is that guys my age who are single (divorced, whatever) seem to think I'm a lunatic and am asking the impossible to ask that sex be reserved for marriage. They think there's something wrong with me. And I truly am afraid sometimes that the only guys out there who get it are the guys that have managed to stay married.

--------------------------------------------------------
As for BF, my gut feeling in continuing to converse with him on the phone is that the resentment has set in, and it's only been about a week since I dropped the bomb.

Last night he was struggling to make conversation. I said something about him being burned out from class and he said, "Yeah, and then someone went and took away my outlet of release." And then there was another point where we hit a silent spot, no biggie when we were getting along, and he says, "Okay, so now what..what's the next subject." sort of like he feels an obligation to talk to me, but really doesn't know what to talk about.

And we're still struggling with boundaries--what to do and not to do. He truly doesn't have any desire to reign in his desires--he just gets frustrated and reminds me that he's a guy with a very high sex drive. The more we talk, while I do believe he has feelings for me or he would have walked by now, I think his desires to please himself and to use me to do that are even stronger. Basically, I'm feeling that he's being very selfish.

I sleep okay, I get up, I start thinking about this stuff, and by 9am every morning I am back to my anxiety attack because I truly don't know what to do.

And yes, I pray. I have asked God for answers (and sometimes I wonder if the anxiety is in a way, my answer to end it--but then again, feelings aren't to be trusted). I have asked God to calm me. But I'm still struggling. Because I haven't been eating well (when I stress out, I lose my appetite), I've run myself down--so now I have no energy, I have headaches, and I have no one to take care of me. And the issues with my daughter and some stress at work has made it worse.

And here in Iowa it's cold and dreary and today it's blustry and snowy--just a totally miserable day for someone who is a warm-weather person to go out. I haven't seen sunshine in probably a week or more. And the holidays are upon me, and I'm not looking forward to them, because I'm basically spending them alone except that my kids will be around on Christmas eve/day...I hope.

And financially I'm struggling because the ex is behind on child support so it's not like I have money to go do something fun to take care of myself. I already owe enough on a credit card (which is also bothering me), and my car is "iffy", but I can't afford a car payment on something newer.

So, pretty much just feeling a little down right now. BF had been the thing keeping me going, because I knew after a long week, I could look forward to being with him. Now that's pretty much blown up, too, because we can't allow ourselves to be alone together for long or we will fall into trouble, or he'll start asking for things I'm not comfortable giving and then it'll get all tense and ugly.

Feeling a bit down today...

LL

LL,
The weather DOES stink, doesn't it?
Okay, I have to tell ya, I don't like BF saying putting all this on you... You've made your decision and you want to live with it. I think you've beat yourself up enough over it, thank you very much, so you two need to move on-either it's over, or he's over this sich and needs to find some other release. What did he do for an "outlet" before you came along? I think you are beating yourself up for this and you shouldn't! Either you have sex, and beat yourself up for that, or don't and beat yourself up for that... which is it going to be?! Enough already!
I think a boundary needs to be set up that he's not able to "attack" you on this subject matter. Either he's in or out, and although it may take him some time to come to terms with it, he need not treat you that way!
You are alone because you are choosing to be. If you want some support, you need to grab it! Just because you don't want to go out with a "group", what's wrong with having one or two good friends that you could chat with over a cup of coffee?
You are making decisions for yourself, people are there for you (us on here- ME, right here in town!), but you have to reach out too...
So...ALLOW yourself to feel good about the decision that you made! ALLOW yourself to reach out for help when you need it! ALLOW people in!
Take care, and God bless!

((((LL))))))

I'm sorry you're down. I can relate to all of those stresses.

However, what I'm seeing here, is that BF is the source, the only ??? source of your happiness.

So.... he doesn't complete you? Maybe not. But you're relying on him to make you happy.

Look at your list of problems. All in a response to Jaye's question about why you want a man. And your summary at the end is "all I have to look forward to in life is BF". Every bit of suffering in your life right now on your list above can be resolved WITHOUT a man.

The part about your marriage pains me. You said you rely on a partner - yet you prayed for him to change - and God didn't answer THAT prayer - He gave you something else. Maybe He was trying to teach you something? Not to rely on a partner? Not to focus on a husband? Not to ask for what YOU want, but for what God wants?

I understand. I really do. If you'll see the last few posts on my "reading" thread, Drita and me were just TALKING about this. And remember when I was down the other day? My solutions to feel better were not about a man... they were about making myself feel better in other ways. LL, you are going to have to find ways to be happy in life with or without a man, and then BF will be the icing on the cake. I'm not one to have girlfriends either, but God gave us friends for a reason. We NEED a support system around us for friendship, love and support - for our emotional needs. Men can give us romantic needs. You can find friends, make friends, and if you GIVE love, you'll RECIEVE it.

I also left quotes above pointing out what YOU noted also... BF seems selfish. He quote about YOU taking away he release is HORRIBLE. He's manipulating and controlling you with that statement. You don't need that. Again, don't pray for God to change his heart. Pray for God's guidance for YOU, and what YOU need to do.

hugs,
Faith1

JMHO

I have the opinion that you are nothing but a F... Buddy to your BF.

Sorry, LL you really deserve better.

Becontent,

The thought crossed my mind, but he's put up with a LOT from me over the 5 months, and he could have just bolted when I told him a week ago we were going to stop. While he's definitely not happy, he also didn't go away...yet.

He's a guy, he's angry, and I think he's more than a little selfish where his desires are concerned. Maybe it's not been long enough for him to digest or decide yet what he's going to do.

I was going to email him a response to his statement of last night. I've thought more about it and am going to stay silent on it for now, and just assume that it was a product of his frustration in having no idea how to deal with a situation like this because he's never faced one before. Guys sometimes say things without thinking them through (okay, women do, too).

I'm not feeling at all good today. I think trying to go back on these A/D's is not working well. I went from 5mg to 10mg today, and I've done nothing but shake and be nauseaus all day. I'd like to just give them up again, but I know I need to be on them right now.

So, do I ask if we're still on for our normal Thursday night? And if we are, what do I do when he tries to get me to take my boundaries further than I think we should (not sex, but more than just a little petting).

Or do I just stay silent, play hard to get, and let him make the next move? I've already pulled physical affection as he sees it from him. I'm afraid if I don't stay in contact, if I make him chase me, that he'll really see it as my rejecting him. But I don't want to chase and overwhelm either.

UGH!! Dogs are so much easier to understand than men. I want to go home and take a nap with my dogs right now.

LL

LL,
IMHO, YOU need to decide where your boundaries are...YOU are the only one that knows this. What can you live with? Figure it out, then STICK WITH IT.
He doesn't have any reason to "blame" you if you make your boundaries clear and stick to them-YOU have to stick to them-they are YOUR boundaries!
What you are doing is setting yourself up if you don't decide what you can and can't do before hand. It's like planning a trip to California and just getting in your car, getting some gas and taking off... what direction are you heading? How are you going to get there? Where will you stay?
Find your boundaries, be your regular self-you are still the same person!!! just celibate now!!!- and know where it stops. Then take responsibility!

LL,
Do you disagree or agree with anything I said?

LL,

also don't blame HIM if he can't live by YOUR boundaries.

Hugs!

I still vote for a break of a few weeks.

Let him cool his jets and learn to "release" himself <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />, and let him put out of his mind the idea that in no time you'll be back to petting and more... Then see if he wants the "new you".

Let yourself get your act together, stop the obsessing and the rollercoaster ride. Let yourself become stable on your AD's, if that's what it takes. And let yourself decide if you want to be involved with a guy who keeps criticizing you for not putting out.

Then, put your heads together and see if you two can make it work.

I know you'll ignore my advice <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />, but that is my vote!

AGG

Faith/Drita...I owe you both responses. So...

Faith,

I don't completely disagree with you. One of my biggest fears in life is that I will never have that Christian marriage I've so desired for so many years. I don't see that as a wrong desire...it doesn't seem contrary to the Bible. The bible says not everyone can accept being single. I feel like I'm in that category. Marriage is highly looked upon.

But yes, because I've been going through so much and stretched so think lately, I have allowed someone I have come to love to be that one thing I look forward to. And he'd done such a fantastic job filling that role. As a human, it's hard to see how dangerous that is until it's too late.

And I've fully admitted my fear that the one thing God may want of me may be to be be single, and celibate, without love or kisses or cuddling or that companion/partner/lover I so desire...for the rest of my life. And that thought does make me very sad, and then sometimes I feel guilty because I'm putting my desires first.

I wasn't dying during that 18 months after my ex moved out that I didn't date. And I had some really peaceful, relaxing days. But I never looked upon it as permanent. I saw it as a temporary thing. That's what kept me content, I believe. Now I'm starting to think maybe it really IS a perment situation. Between the sordid past that some guy is going to have to accept to have me, and then my issues celibacy outside marriage, my odds as a 40-yr-old mother of a difficult teen finding the kind of guy I desire are pretty darned slim. And I really thought I'd found him. So many things pointed that way. But it's starting to look like I was maybe just delusional.

I know if I give love, I'll receive from friends. The problem has been that because I'm not much of a socialite, I've not given, and now I'm so darned strained emotionally and frankly very weak physically, that I don't feel like I have anything left to give.

I'd love to be able to share my weight loss plan with those who may need it more than I do. I'm 5'9". And I've lost down from 130 which is what I keep myself at, to 122lbs. My clothes are hanging on me. And I have zero appetite, and zero desire to go out in the freezing, blustry cold and get lunch. So I'm trying to down a few nutritional supplements I bought at Walgreens this morning, but I'm getting mighty tired of them. I truly just feel like I could keel over at about any minute. But I keep plugging away.

Drita,

I agree with you. I have to find my boundaries. But they've been sort of a moving target. I know for sure--no sex. And BF is very aware of that one. But then when it gets into what can be done as far as, uh, making out...I am able to control myself kissing and being close and snuggling with no problem. So I thought that was an allowable boundary. But then he wants more, which I allowed, because it still at the time didn't seem unacceptable, because I still wasn't going mad with desire. But then he starts asking for other favors, because at one point I had suggested it might be an outlet..but now I've sort of reconsidered that area, because it would just mean he was dwelling on what he wanted but couldn't do with me, and I think would make his desire/control issue even stronger. And now I think he feels like I've completely pulled the plug on him, but it's one of those things where the basic boundare was clear to me from the start, but how to get there and what can and can't be allowed has required some trial and error, which probably further confuses and frustrates him.

Why can't a guy be content outside a marriage to just enjoy being with someone? Sure, they want more--I do, too. But when I know it's not an option, I'm willing to try to refocus myself on what ARE enjoyable options, not so dead set on pushing the envelope.

Okay, tangent there. Still trying to work through my boundaries. No email from him yet today, so no email to him yet either.

LL

Thanks for your thoughts.

As for Thursday night, I really don't like the way he's blaming you for taking a stance. It doesn't seem very loving, and relationship-minded. It's selfish. I beleive you shouldn't go at all, or stick with kissing and cuddling ONLY, and make that your clear boundary. If he's not happy with that, he's not thinking of YOU, and first and foremost -> the health of your relationship. Boundaries "further" than that are just asking for trouble and frustration. And depending on what else you do, begs to question what is "sex" and what isn't, Mr. Clinton.

You may have the Christian marriage you desire... but God's timing is not ours. His ways are not ours. You know that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I think most of us can relate to your feelings of being alone, and the utter pain of a failed marriage, one that we desired and worked very hard for. I constantly pray that God is preparing me for my future husband, and him for me, or that God continue helping me be content as a Single, whatever His will is, because He hasn't revealed to me which way it's going to be! But I know the trials and lessons I'm going through, will help me either way. Maybe THIS BF is not your future husband, but maybe God is preparing you for the right one. Be willing to let go of your desires, so God's greater desires can become yours.

hugs,
Faith1

Alluring,

I understand your comment in theory. The problem is that he's said numerous times that he does understand why I feel the way I do, and that on a certain level, he believes I may even be correct. That's why I'm having such the issue with him throwing it in my face.

AGG,

I don't disagree with you on everything. I just know we don't share some of the same ideas on the celibacy thing. Your idea of a cooling-off period isn't a bad one. I just don't know right now where I'm headed. He still hasn't emailed, he hasn't asked if I'm coming over on Thursday, and last night's phone call got strained...it may be too late for that cooling off period already.

Faith,

Point well taken on how far to go. We have already discussed my views of Mr. Clinton and what is and isn't sex, and while that may not be in the truest sense of the word, I think it falls in to the category of things I can't do. We were looking at something a little less than that but still probably bordering on way bad. And that's why I excused myself Sunday shortly after he asked if it was out of the question to ask if I'd take care of him. "Yes, I said". "Figured so, he said." And we dropped it, and enjoyed a little more of each other's company, and I went home. But I know it's going to get pushed, and it's crossing a comfort line of mine because I think it's only making the tension worse which doesn't help him with self-control and I think is not what God wants us to be doing. It's not helping him refocus.

LL

Okay, I didn't email him. He finally emailed me. Mostly just about his day, and the weather over there. But anyone up for interpreting this paragraph?

Oh yeah, almost forgot, it's looking more and more like it'll be a Nebraska/Iowa matchup in the Alamo Bowl down in San Antonio on Wednesday, December 28. Nothing will be officially announced until this next Sunday, but I've read lots of media reports suggesting it'll happen. Would love to go, just to check out San Antonio and to witness the 'Skers kicking Hiney over the lowly hawks. Don't know if Dad can handle it though? Don't suppose you could get some time off during the middle of that week, heck, we'd have to stay in a motel room together, probably not a smart idea??? Oops, didn't mean to get the drill out.

xoxoxo,

BF

(By "the drill" he's referring to our standing comment about this subject being about as pleasant to deal with sometimes as going to the dentist.)

I haven't responded back, but I probably will soon, just to be polite. Won't say much yet, though.

LL

I'll pass on this one. <biting my tongue>

He's still getting those zings in, isn't he?

It's a horrible way to communicate. Very manipulative and controlling. Take it from an expert. When I'm hurt, and dont' get my way, I can continue to throw zingers as long as someone is willing to take them, or until I get tired of doing it. It's very immature and... like I said... I suppose when I do it... I'm trying to hurt the other person as much as they've hurt me... or to get the other person to make ME feel better about the hurt they inflicted on me. I want them to change their mind and fix the problem, or to somehow console me and make me feel better, which usually isn't possible because I simply want my way.

But that's just me... not sure if that's him or not... or the reason why everyone does it. Regardless, he's blaming you for his unhappiness (not getting what he wants). All you can do is show/tell him you love him anyway, but that boundary stands, and he has a choice - he can keep you around, but quit blaming you, and work WITH you to enjoy your relationship ... or.... he can let you go. I'm thinking back to MYSELF, when I act like that... and also to a child when they are not getting their way.

LL,
I gotta tell ya, from what you had told me about BF, I was really impressed, but the more he does stuff like this and says stuff like this....he's really sending you mixed messages here. I'm disappointed in him. I mean, on one hand, how exciting! That he's inviting you to go! Awesome!
But then on the other.... has he always been like this with some thing or another?
Listen, I think you need to come up with your boundaries-what they are so you can spell them out. Stop being so wishy washy aobut it all and get them nailed down. Then tell him what they are and stick to them...then he has no right or reason to talk to you this way. Then you are going to see what this is really all about...