I have come to a number of conclusions. I have struggled and struggled to try to get a sense of understanding of why I struggle so impotently against things I know mentally I have no control over. And I realise a number of things. Part of this is my personality. NO excuses, just the facts.

Basically it comes down to how we all look at life in general doesn't it?

When I see a problem, I think :
- what caused it?
- What was my part?
- What can I do to fix it?

Then I dissect the problem and tackle little parts of the whole. Always keeping in mind what the goal is.

That is: Keep my eyes on the prize.

I had a personality temperament test last year that really sums it up. "BS is extremely analytical and goal-directed and views "no" as a temporary obstacle." And that is true. I see what needs to be done, I work endlessly and tirelessly achieve the goal and to heck with nay-Sayers. My philosophy has always been work with me or get the heck out of the way. This is a source of pride with me. Other people's feelings have not been as important to me as the achievement of the goal. . Not in professional nor in personal relationships. I mean, I am loyal and try very hard to be considerate and I do work best in a team environment. But have little to no patience for people that say they can't, that things have always been a certain way, or are too scared to try something new, or think outside of the box, mentality.

Flexibility and innovation are traits that I admire the most. With a huge requirement for integrity, honesty and the courage to make personal and professional changes. Always striving for more self-knowledge and personal growth and responsibility. People that take chances and take responsibility for their own screw-ups without blaming everyone else for their own issues. I try to do that. Of course I am still working on issues myself. I do try to recognize what my faults are. I am just a human being after all. Not perfect by any means.

The people I admire the most are the ones that will stand up for what they believe is the honourable and right things to do. And take a stand against injustice personally or professionally. I am lucky to have quite a few friends like that.

And that is the crux of the difference between me and Dork. For him there is a dichotomy between his professional and his personal integrity and even his goals. The man that Dork is at work is someone I would consider a hero. A man to emulate. A fantastic man. A leader and someone that anyone can be proud to know. He doesn't take BS and stands up for his subordinates and fights on their behalf. He takes every opportunity to teach them, to defend them, to represent them, and make the job a great place to be. What he does in his job is incredible. HE is known for his no BS and taking on any officer (he's in the Navy) if he thinks there is a problem. And I stand in awe of his integrity.

And that is the man I married. I was always so proud to be his wife. I was so proud to learn from him. I can remember his patience and his humour when he was teaching me or DD13. His overall competence and skills. I can remember how thankful I was to have him as my husband. I remember how hard he worked on projects and in his job.

But, somewhere along the line, he split. At work he is still everything that I have always wanted and admired. In his personal life he is something completely different.

I have asked him a million times to explain how he can be so dedicated at work and be so different in his personal life. I have asked him so often WHY? But he doesn't understand what I am asking him. Or at least he refuses to examine the reasons why.

Oh I have tried to tell him. DUH! That doesn't work. That is the control issue. You just cannot force someone to look into their hearts or their souls or even think about the emotional baggage and a life time of self-protective knee-jerk reactions to issues. Especially as I honestly cannot see how running away from your family and your commitments can work. Dork is one of the most intelligent men I have ever met. Yet his reactions to his personal unhappiness are to blame me and even DD13. To run away and to never attempt personal change to achieve the most important goal in the world. That is: To have and maintain a family that is happy and healthy. All of us. But his reactions are all about him. And to heck with us. We are not part of the equation. Oh he wants DD13 I guess. But he refuses to do the work that is necessary for a family unit. Because I am in it.

At work, he never lets anything just wither and die. He never quits trying to repair any damage. He never allows a problem to be unresolved. NEVER HAS. NEVER WILL. At work his honesty and his integrity are impeccable. SO what happened? I have asked that so many times and I get the same non-answers that I have gotten from day one.
Excuses.
- I don't want to be with you any more.
- You don't listen to me.
- You kept changing things.
- I was never first in the marriage.
- I would make a decision and you ignored it.
- We had plans you kept changing them.
- We had goals and we never achieved them.

And that is where I get stuck. Because my philosophy is "So what"? If you don't succeed, try again. Don't quit trying. Figure out what went wrong. Do it over. As a matter of principle and a matter of keeping the goal in mind. That is, an intact family. A happy child and happy parents. That might struggle but honour their commitments to the family AND TO EACH OTHER.

The worst part for me is my conviction that his personal issues and his refusal to examine what has lead up to this have put us all in this tragic situation. And I see a sad and pathetic man that insists he is happy even though it is obvious that he is not in the least bit happy. And still he is frozen. He is bogged down in a situation that can never make him or me or DD13 happy and secure.

He reminds me of a cornered animal. Mad with pain and with rage that attacks anyone with approaches him. And attacks the people that love him the most. And that is the most painful part. Well I guess the most painful part is knowing with every fibre of my being that he still has strong feelings for me but to justify his actions he must attack me when I question him or his motives and ignore me to justify what he has done. With no way out except complete destruction. And he can't see that the destruction includes himself. Because if you know the man he is at work and compare him to what he has done in his personal life his soul must be in sheer agony.

I can't change it but I do know that unless he wakes the ****** up and works on us, he is destined to self-destruct. To go from one meaningless relationship to another. Always unhappy, always picking losers and never changing things. And I guess that is why I say he is insane or an addict. But that doesn't help either. In fact nothing helps.

So I am determined to disengage from this quagmire. To stop my co-dpendt behaviour. TO stop trying to save" him. It is so contrary to my natural instinct to confront . The man that I love is buried and drowning in this thing he has become. And I have to leave it to him to find himself. And that is the most difficult thing that I have ever attempted. I see the goal. I see the advantages and yes, the necessity of trying to fix this family. But he doesn't. He has no hope. He has no will. He has no courage to battle our problems and our personal demons. And I do. Even DD13 does. But that won't work either. Acceptance is very hard. TO give up such a worthy goal. TO save the family and to save us from the fallout of this adultery and personal failures sickens me. I have FAITH in God and in us that we can get through this. But he doesn't.

So we are doomed to failure. Oh DD13 and I will survive. We have done everything to survive and grow but Dork hasn't and won't. God help him. And I look at his support system. Well lack of support. NO family that helps him face his issues. A bunch of frickin' enablers disguised as support. A lying cheating married adulteress with the morals of an alley cat. He doesn't have one friend that is happily married and has the courage to call him on his behaviour. He has severed all relationships with anyone that would disapprove of his choices. Oh he has "buddies". But no friends. Except the Ditchpig4. Who is ostracized by most of the people they hang with other than her friends. A lonely and pethetic life.

So we struggle on. Tearing the scabs off the wounds to excise them. Working to gain the scar tissue to get past this.

And determined to walk away from someone I want to save. And know I can't. No offered life jacket can save a drowning man if they don't reach for it. I know it. I hate it. And try to stay far enough way that he doesn't drown us too.


So I have my faith in God, faith in me and faith that DD and I will survive. And unbearable pain at the death of my marriage. Prayers for us and for Dork. His soul is in mortal torment.

GOd help us all.

What a great post. Your story had me glued to my seat, absorbing all that you wrote.

You have a way with words.

I was wondering, do you feel you have done a great Plan A?

His actions sound like the affair is ongoing?

Do you know if there is no contact?

He sounds like he is in conflict, and at the moment does not like himself, you or anyone.

My xwh functioned perfectly normal while all the chaos from his affair was going on.

He too, is a great leader, and has earned the admiration of his superiors, as well as work crew.

He once said to me, "I lead men at work, and do an excellent job." "Why can't I do the same at home?"

Could it be that your husband is used to leading people and telling them what to do, and then comes home and expects that telling you what to do is normal.

Has he gotten into the habit of "supervising you" and making decisions for both of you, without the benefit of your input??

Just curious.

fightingalone - you have suffered for a long, long time. I am glad to see that the one person you want to save is not willing to save himself. Sometimes when we pull away and save ourselelves it is for the best. You are a great woman. Go forth and slay other dragons. Take care of you and D13. I will keep you in my prayers.

Ah KD. That's the problem. Well one of so many. I am a self confessed control freak. FF has been my inspiration with her work and the book CO-Dependent no more.

Because WH is in the military I HAD to take care of things. DUH! Gone sometimes 10 months a year. (Canadian navy, btw) I did everything and he appreciated it. Or so I thought. But my problem was that when he was home I still decided most everything. And did override a lot of his decision becasue I knew, or thought I knew, what was best. After all how could someone who was only there part-time know what was really a priority. THat is what I have been working on changing.

KD, he married me because I was strong and independent a prerequisite to being a military spouse. But the rules changed. But didn't inform me.

There were some life traumas that happened that made him change the rules. His alcoholic father died while with Dork on the ship. MLC. Yet he still insists that he has dealt with the trauma of living with an alcoholic father and a control freak of a mother who did everything for her children. And yes she is so "supportive " of Dork that she has estranged DD13, her only granddaughter.

Yet when Dork started this garbage, he didn't share with me. HE said I never listened but that is debatable. Did I not listen or did he not make me hear? kwim?

And in his personal life Dork is the biggest CA in the world. Really! He will ignore and lie or run away from any conflict or disapproval. HE has cut friends and family out of his life forever. Sigh. It hurts to even contemplate the damage.

His currrent affair is ongoing. And not ging well from what I hear. The A seems to be winding down. He is spending less and less time with her. And Ditchpig4 is just that. #4. One the mother of his son before we met. #2 4 years ago which was an EA moving to a PA. #3 when he started this current stuff with a shipmate while at sea last summer and this latest skank. A disgusting unattractive, married woman with at least 2 children by different fathers. And still married but S. DP4s daughter hates this as much as me as DD13. She told me that. Yes, I have called that skank.
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

ANd i have written a number of letters and sent her a congratualtions card for her acts of integrity and good morals. lol. I didn't get a response. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />lol.

I don't regret sending it at all. I do have a way with words. And made sure she knew I GAVE her the WH, that my H was something she would never have. lol. Oh and sprayed it with my signature perfume. So, I am right there with her. And sent WH a letter with the same perfume. THat I know he has to keep for his lawyer. ANd he loves the perfume so I would imagine that he thinks of me and can't figure out why. lol

BUt I do know he is in conflict. I am in Plan B. But break it because of our financial issues (he own't sign off on any papers) and becasue of DD. WHich is frustrating as heck. I know when I called in October to inform him that I ws filing for a D and naming DP4 as the adulteress he was depressed for days.

I know becasue he boards with my friends. And his contact with DP4 was minimal for weeks after. Now I don't know and don't want to.

As far a Plan A. Absolutely crappy Plan A. YOu see he is posted over 4 hours away. ANd when the A came to light, he was on total ignore and AWOL from us. COuldn't find him. ANd since I and DD13 are so far away, and he has only visisted 6 times this year, or so, the few oocasions were nmostly not good. I was and am too angry. I have used RB a few times. But the outright lies and excuses are unbearable.

Yet I would swear he still cares about me. THere is absolutely no indfference. Avoidance yes, to the max. BUt indifference no. We even started having some fun and then I beleive he got scared because he could see that there were positive changes and delieberately intiated the current PA in May while we were together. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> TO destroy that possibility of reconciliation happening.

And there is now no contact with either DD13 or me pssobile as fas as visists. DD13 sent him her own PLan B letter. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

She refuses to see him until he obtains regular C with our C on his own. And NC with the DP4.

She came up with that on her own. Fantastic young woman. SHe has in th elast week started to email him and he back. But that is going nowhere. She asks the same questions I did and DOrk is still saying the weirdest stuff. SO I epxect taht will fizzle within a week or so.

DD13 told him she prays for him. In fact her enitre class pray for all of us. Every day! And she is determined to make him see the error of his ways. SH eis unbeleivable and I admire her determination. But I have tried to let her know that you cannot force anyone to think, see or feel what they refuse to understand. We might be 100% right. BUt that still can't save this family. I can't save without him And neither can DD13. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

So we are stuck. I hate to be her. I want to move on. Unfortuantely I still love him. But I can't change him. Only me. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

You have moxy, and I would be the first one to stand up and applaud that in you...and I am so happy to see you getting to a better place. You are right? I can't tell for sure from your post.

Can you imagine the happy life you would have if all the energy you spent on Dorkhead were put on a different goal?

The world is your oyster girlie, and I would bet big money that you will have a GREAT love again (maybe with him someday, maybe not) and a very happy life for you and DD soon.

It's written in the stars fighting...and they shine for you.

PS, good to see you again.

((((realtor))) You have enough on your plate, too. I read but don't post very often anymore. I see the futility in some of the posters. ANd the pain they are in is so hard and such a trigger to me. And others? Well I would make Lemonman's post be th emost diplomatic in the world by comparison so I leave them alone. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

I am far too cynical to be of help. I have lost so much hope and struggle with that. BEcasue how can you move on without hope and faith? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

((((weaver))) ( me waving and jumping up and down)))

I miss talking to you!

I am sorta kinda all right. Resigned, and heartbroken... And cyncial as heck that things will EVER get better.

Working on acceptance. Saying the mantra "GOd grant me the serentiy to accept the things that I canot change...."

I am NOT serene. Yet. My heart is shattered into a million pieces and every shard still manages to love what used to be my H. Dork, not at all. He is the greatest source of pain and torture in the world to me and to DD13. I hate him. Every I have to talk to him, I have a voice in my head say DIVE DIVE DIVE! Run for cover. lol

Yes I am getting there. Kicking and screaming and struggling agianst the inevitable end of the M the whole way. Failing was never an option. Failure to try was never an option. BUt I know I can't do this anymore. I have gotten absolutely nowhere with WH and see only the rarest glimpses of H.

As far as finding a great love. ICK! I cannot even contemplate trusting anyone ever again. Trusting anyone has always been hard for me. And when I do it is total commitment. And look where it got me. Sigh. WHine and pity party supreme.

Can I imagine the happy life if I expended my energy on a diffeent goal other than DOrk? No. I am gathering all of the little pieces of me that are lying bleeding and dying in the graveyard of my marriage. I am a dead woman walking. Oh not forever, But right now, I am working on bandaging up my mortal wounds. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

And I recognize that I am in no shape to be in any relationship until I am healed. I have had a few dates. As friends, but even though they were nice, I cannot commit to anyone until I am better and this tragedy is only a distant memory.

Becasue when all is said and done I want my H back. And that can't happen. NOw or ever. And that thought scares the crap out of me. Not fear of bein alone. I don't mind that bit. BUt that the love we had turned to ashes without any fight to protect it By WH.

You are in a tough situation, the lack of being in the same place as your w/s seems to be the biggest obsticle.

It sounds like your w/s is a runner.

Self destructive too from the sounds of it. (Starting another relationship while attending yours)

It sounds like dork has a history of affairs.

I won't give you pity, you are a proud, assertive woman that needs no pity.

I will instead give my pity to your self-destructive w/s.

He is loosing the respect of both his wife and child.

He is sentencing himself to unhappiness, when he has everything a man could want.

I hope the best for you, fightingaloneagain.

keep in contact.

K.D.'s Heartbreak

Okay, now I know you are not alright...but you will be.

When I decided to let go of all the pain and move on I had some incredibly bad days (to put it mildly), but then they got fewer and fewer...and now I am in a very good place in my life.

But you are right, the first step and the most painful is acceptance, when you stop fighting and simply grieve for what has been lost.

I do not like your fatalistic mentality right now...not even you can tell the future, so you have no idea how this will all turn out in the end, but for now it is as over as over can be. Let it die, so something new can be born.

There is great love in you fighting, so you will have that kind of love again...believe it or not, if it is what you want you will have it in the end. Now I'm not saying with him, but the love is in you and always has been, only the form you give it to will change. As in a new guy, new passion, etc.

All that matters is that you find yourself again, and your joyful place in this world.

If you ever need to talk, no matter how nuts you are sounding LOL, please email me at chanci99@hotmail.com

I consider you a friend, and don't want you trying to get through those dark hours alone.

I like the way you put that. Good post FAA!

FAA - your words ring so true to me.

Quote - "Because if you know the man he is at work and compare him to what he has done in his personal life his soul must be in sheer agony".

My WH has lost loads of weight, looks sallow and unhappy and has pushed himself onto kidney dialysis. He has always worked like a trojan and gives 110% at work. An exemplary employee and a kind, caring son. He is a shadow of his former self. The dark side does not suit him. TT

((Weaver))) THank you. YOu are so right. ANd I do sound crazy sometimes. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> But, I forgive myself for that. I know it is all part of this process. ANd Ding! WHen you say I need to find my joyful place. This hit home.I have lost my joy. Joy in being alive and joy of waking up smiling with pleasure at being with someone I love. . And just plain joy in the simple pleasures. Except for DD13 and myoDD25 and DS 28. ANd my Friends IRL and MBs. Everyone has stood behind me and propped me up and smacked me as needed.And even some of gonte to DOrk and tried to talk to him. No effect but at least they tried. And I thank GOd every day for all of you.

My fatalism is my armour. I have nothing left to give right now and the armour is self preservation. If I assume I will never have anyone I love as much as I still love that Dork, I can't be hurt, can I? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" /> And even though I know that feeling won't last forever, it is what I need to protect what is left of me as I rebuild myself. kwim?
You have mail. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thanks kd. I am proud. And I know I am a good woman and while I am not even close to perfect. I was prepared to do whatever was necessary to rebuild. Start from day one. But I cna't change his choices.

Yes Dork is a runner. A CA that has every excuse in the book to NOT change. And he is unhappy. ANd he did have everything. And he threw us away like yesterday's trash.

And history of affairs. Yes, I think tha tis likely. Of course he doens't think that he is a serial adulterer. After all, he decided the marriage was over, so he's single and he can date anyone he wants. Well that's his story.

While at the same time does nothing to make it possible fo rme to file for divorce. HE has stalled for 6 months with financial papers that until they are submitted, I cna't file. THe court will not hear a divorce petition unitl I get a copy. As the LS needs the financials attached.

So a cake eater, too. THe BS in the wings as an excuse to NOT commit to the MOW. And me frustrated as heck and stuck., I need to file the LS and want to get that part settled. GRR!!!!

((TT)) Yes, the dark side is what I see and all I can foresee. And then I think of DD13 and what she is getting. The message of neglect and abandoment. He has chosen both OW that I know of that BOTH have DD same age or so as DD. And he chooses them over his own child. Every time. Dork has seen his DD13 6 times or so since January. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

How horrible is that? ANd dork has aged to the point where he looks older than my years. He is 10 years younger. Me on the other hand I think I look pretty good. Must be the clear conscience.

YOu take care of yourself, OKay? Was thinking of you in CHina. I am totally jealous.

I've had an amazing week. Beijing for 4 days and today I went to see Cirque de Soleil - Quiddam. Totally unexpected but half price tickets came my way and I couldn't resist. I need times like this to remind me that I don't need WH to make me happy.

My WH has only seen his girls probably 10 times altogether this year. I believe he feels a huge amount of guilt when he sees us so it is easier not to. Just pretend we don't exist. He has got away with such poor behaviour because, despite all the crap he has dished out, I wonder how strong I would have been if I was facing kidney failure. Perhaps he thinks he's dying and he might as well 'live it up' before he goes. I can't help but feel sorry for him but my priority now are my daughters. I love them so much and thank God they are in my life to make me feel useful! TT

Cirque de Soleil is Canadian. I have watched some of their performances on television. THey are amazing!



Yes, I think you are absolutely right. Out of sight. Out of mind. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" /> And when you say that perhaps he might want to live it up. Well, I can't know that.

What I don know, is about 4 years ago I had a very risky surgery. THe odds of dying were very great. And my choice was to settle things and sort out misunderstandings and make sure that if I did die, that I could go knowing that I forgave people that hurt me and asked for forgiveness from the ones that I hurt. So I struggle with judging people who don't. It is a failing as I understand not everyone is the same. But... well they should be! lol. THat is said as me laughing at me.

And yes, DD13 is my priority. ANd I see a world of hurt for her. For the nex tlittle while. And no avoiding it. BUt as someone said to me, it is unavoidable. But it is how we handle the struggles that define us.

And I feel such pity for DOrk for choosing to not be in DD13's life. She is an amazing child. Samrt, kind, thoughtful. As her older sister said: she is an angel. Yes she is. She is God's gift to me and I must be there for her.

THis just plain sucks! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />

I am trying to stay out of having any contact with the Dork. Except for the financials but that part is unavoaidable. I just cannot afford any more legal bills. GRRR!!!

DD13 has been emailing Dork with questions and with her ideas as to what he SHOULD do. It won't work any more than it did for me. I have tried to explain that she cannot make her father change. He has to want that for himself. She was sending me copies of the emails. YIKES I don't want to read them. I get so angry at his CA and his blame and him just ignoring her questions.

I have asked her to stop saying Mom says this and Mom says that. And to please leave me out of it. BUT and this is a big but, how can I support her and her anger and her frustration without her talking to me? She talks to me aobut what she thinks and says. WHich is good. BUt trying to stay disengaged does not work if I have to keep hearing the crap. And there really is no one else she can speak to. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

Any suggestions? She already writes in a journal. But she is adamant about no IC. And the IC said to not to push her. RIght now she is furious and totally frustrated. BUT she is not holding her pain in which is good. SHe is trying to deal with what she has.