Ark



I finally had the courage to say it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Over dinner last night WH says that even though it was tough taking care of DS that he enjoyed being with him. I said i'm sure DS enjoyed being with daddy too--DS needs you HERE. He didn't respond...he just looked at me and smiled (WH is a smiley person--smiles for anything) so i don't know how to look at it.

It felt good having him around for the entire day but when he left i felt sad. Darng it---he belongs HERE with his family why can't HE see that. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

I need help.

What else can i tell him that doesn't require a response... just make him think?

time to write your plan B letter...

time to prepare to remove yourself...
just when he wants more...

time to do a few more ________ of plan A...and then Plan B..

write your letter now...
prepare

ARK

I've been thinking about plan b.....but how can i go about it with an infant

i won't let WH take him out of my house and i don't know if he can visit DS in my family's home...they don't want to deal with him.

The only option i have thought about is leaving my home when he visits DS but i would still have to see him leaving and coming.

I REALLY don't know what to do....where to start???

Ark

I'm sitting here thinking about plan b and i'm nervous....shaking

I have no choice but do plan b but i have so many doubts. I don't feel ready yet...I don't know maybe i'm just afraid of not seeing/speaking to him.

I don't think he's missing me...he's missing DS

I REALLY don't know how to start the pbl.

How is this going to work an infant?
How long does one usually stay in plan b?

Spoke to SH this morning. I’m so glad I called....money well spent. He’s great and so easy to talk to. I was quite surprised because I didn’t feel pressed for time....our session went well over the hour.

I’ll try to sum up as best as I can what SH suggested....too much info. to post.

SH said I should not go into plan b yet.

I should continue with plan a but not focus too much on it for now.

I need to try to show WH hope for a better marriage. send him the message that we can get passed this, that I’m working on improving myself.....chip away the thoughts that this marriage is hopeless......that there is a plan to help us get through this.....try to get him to read some of the articles.

SH said that if I just plan a him by being nice...he could see it as manipulation......she’s going to go back to her old self again once I come back home.

He told me to fill out the LB Questionnaire for him from his perspective and show it to him. Tell WH that I’m speaking to SH and that he’s helping me work on me and he gave me the LB questionnaire as an assignment for me to do and that SH would like to talk to him to get his perspective on the things I do. I’m to try this for a few weeks and if this doesn’t help then SH wants to come up with a different approach.

OMG, does this pain ever really go away? It's been 10 months since D-day and i'm still a complete mess. I can't stop crying right now.

WH was over today and i gave him the LB questionnaire. i did as SH advised me and told him that it was an assignment for me. We went over it and i told him that SH wanted to speak to him to get his perspective of things. He agreed for me to set up the appointment but made it clear that he was doing this if it was to help ME and nobody else but ME. That he won't discuss us with SH. Said that he still sees this M as hopeless......lost love for me a long time ago and doesn't see it possible to fall in love with me again...that he loved DS but wasn't in love with his mother....and that is not enough reason for him to try to work things out between us. Doesn't care if there is a plan out there that might help us.

I am hurting bad right now...tears can't stop flowing.

I wish i didn't love him so much. How can you still love someone who hurt you this bad........how do i make this pain go away......

....and the rollercoaster goes back up again.

Feeling a little better today and i'm prepared to do whatever it takes to try and save this marriage and though it seems hopeless at this point. But i'm trying to do all that i can so that when i do decide to "throw in the towel" i will have no regrets.

Am going to set up the appointment with Steve Harley this week....he's all the hope i got at this point....

DNM, I'm here to tell you, doing your best is worth it.

If your M ends, you won't have anything external to show for all your effort. There'll be nothing to remind you of your integrity.

Except your own reflection.

GC

GC

Thanks.

This is extremely painful and very very difficult. It's so hard to understand how someone you thought you knew, you thought loved you, someone who you thought would protect you...can hurt you so bad and don't give a crap about it.

Just when i thought that we were biginning to live out our dream....this baby was planned, we were looking to buy a house.....my whole world came down on me.

But as long a i have the energy and my sanity....i'll continue to fight.

I don’t know about ANY of this anymore.........plan a or plan b

It really seems like WH doesn’t love me anymore..........he’s finished with me. I thought that maybe somewhere inside him i still meant something to him. That maybe he was just confused or things escalated to the point where he didn’t know how to make things right again but i no longer think that’s the case. Whatever little love he had left for me i must of killed it with all the Lbing i did after D-day.

How could i have not seen what i was doing to our M? He “jokingly” would tell me some times how i wasn’t as affectionate as i used to be..........why didn’t i listen closely. I thought he knew i loved him with all my heart even though i wasn’t as demonstrative as i used to be. I knew he had an extremely high sex drive. Why didn’t i step it up in the bedroom more? It took us 10 months to get pregnant........I didn’t know that he thought he was less of a man because he couldn’t get me pregnant and i just made it worse every month by getting depressed. I just wanted him to hold me and tell me everything was going to be all right....now i know why he couldn’t. He constantly wanted his family over and i would complain that i needed a day off from all the cleaning and cooking. Was that really too much to ask of me?

Why did it have to come to this for me to realize the damage i did.....now it seems to be too late. If he would only give us a chance...but i really don’t see that happening. I think he’s really done with me.

<<DNM>>

Can't think of anything to say except "it ain't over till it's over" and "it's always darkest before the dawn"

God bless and keep the faith.

Thanks BK

It helps to hear that sometimes.

Oh Ark

Ever since WH and I went over the LB questionnaire that SH told me to do, our communication has broken wide open. We’ve always been able to talk about anything.

Today WH has an appointment with SH so lately, for the past couple of days we’ve been talking about us.....hard based reality conversation. It’s amazing how much I’ve grown (with your help) and I’m amazed at myself. The conversations were pretty intense. I don’t know whether or not it’s the fog but WH has told over and over again that he doesn’t want to try to work on our M because he knows he’s just going to hurt me again because he can’t control himself. That this has nothing to do with me.......it’s all about him and he knows he has a problem. That when we got married he thought it was for life but now he doesn’t see himself changing. I tried reasoning with him......no pleading, no begging, no crying, no angry outburst or disrespectful judgements. It’s like he knows how much damage he is doing to himself and us but he can’t seem to stop......or it this baloney for thinking like way? He says we’re through and there’s no feelings there yet he tried coming on to me last night.

Before we had our conversation, WH cell phone rang and he answered it. It was clear from the brief conversation that it was one of his wh*res and he told her that he would call her back later. How dare he answer his phone to talk to his wh*ore in my presence and my home. I didn’t LB but I told him that he was being disrespectful and if he wanted to carry on a conversation he can go outside to do that. Had he really lost his common sense and all respect for me? But while in in my home he was going to respect me. He apologized and said that that won’t ever happen again. Then he tried to justify it by said that i get on the phone and talk to my “friend” while he’s there. I reminded him of whose house he was in and he just continued apologizing. I was extremely upset.............HOW DARE HE. Since he stayed later than usual and didn’t get to call her right back, his phone rang off the hook but he didn’t dare answer it. Let the wh*ores wonder why he wasn’t picking up his phone......what was he doing over at my house at that time of night. I’m sure he lied to her and she’s really stupid to think that all he was doing was seeing DS at 11 at night.

Ark is this all part of the fog? Am I wasting my time talking to him? Have i ruined my plan a?

At this point, WH thinks i have someone in my life already.......but i didn’t comment on that.......let him think i have met someone.

SH wanted to speak to me once more after he speaks to WH but I can see plan b on the horizon. I see that in order for me to get on with my life i need to separate myself from his chaos. I’m having a tough time with it because of the baby. I am completely lost and don’t know how to implement it. Would it work if I were to leave the house when WH comes to see DS? I could probably have WH visit DS once a week at my parents home but I’m not sure about that because I feel like I’m depriving DS of his daddy. Right now when WH comes over he feeds him, bathe him, reads to him and puts him to bed. Once I go into plan b that won’t happen again. Maybe that’s what he needs to really miss out on those things with DS too.....I don’t know.

Do you have any suggestions???

look how well you are doing...

he turns to other people out there...and surrounds himself with people that can not and will not judge or reprimand..
yet to whom does he spend hours talking to you....

for you are the one standing with reason..
AND
even more important you are the ONE woman in his life...making no DEMANDS on him...but quietly and firmly stating YOUR boundaries....and what does he do with your boundaries...

complys
and
apologizes..

all done with NO demands or controls on him...BUT all of them in your court.....

and he is responding...

because you are the only one in his life who cares enough about him to save him from himself....

and do so by showing and standing up for yourself...

on the end of his phone he's got some woman who first of all is nasty enough to accept and tolerate a man who abandons his own first born son....

so right there we all know how that actions defines her beliefs and values....

and there is you...
removed from chaos..
thriving and being strong and calm


he babble about not being able to control himself is bonk he knows it...you know it....
don't power struggle that crap...

you got your WS AGREEING to talk to SH...who'da thunk it..eh?

you got your man staying till 11:00 pm TALKING to you while chaos women calls and calls and calls and calls..

who'da thunk it...eh?

AND

He says we’re through and there’s no feelings there yet he tried coming on to me last night.

well who'da thunk that one.....!!!!

I would be careful about creating too strong an illusion you have someone else...for you need to stand firm in you VOWS.,....show belief in them even as he does not....

Can't wait to hear how his talk went...

you got a man listening to you..
if you have to go to plan b it will have a great impact on him.....
and I believe serve you very very well....
for you are the only lighthouse he has........

have you read the lighthouse post...and have you read Bobpures story....

ARK

Just spoke to WH and from the little that I gathered it seems like nothing came from the counseling.

WH seemed to not recall a lot of it because he claims that there was too much information. WH said that he asked him a bunch of questions to which he doesn’t seem to recall. He said that SH repeatedly asked him if he was interested in learning how to fall in love with me again....that it was possible if he allowed him to. WH said he wasn’t interested. That i deserve better than what he has to offer.

I will have to wait to speak to SH again so that i can get the real version and see what happens next.

I guess the session didn’t go well at all. My hope is fading. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Spoke to SH today and he says that it seems like I’m ready for plan b. He says he wishes that I could hold out a bit longer to plan a but when plan b starts looking alterative then it’s time for plan b. He said that I’ll be doing a modified plan b. He says that plan b won’t work with WH and he’ll be happy to get rid of me.

WH has built a wall to keep me away from him and that I need to chip away at that wall. SH feels that the wall he built is thin but that I may give up before the wall finally falls. That I need a break away from all this for awhile and then I should resume with chipping away at that d*rng wall.

He told me to give WH a letter (sort of my PBL) telling him that there’s hope for our M, that we can fall in love again, that we owe DS to at least try, that his feelings can change if we agree to let SH coach us along, etc..... and that I need to distance myself from him because it’s painful for me to have to deal with this when he won’t even try. SH wants me to do a draft of my letter and then fax it to him so that he can give me some feedback before I give it to WH.

He said to continue planting the seeds that we can fall in love again and maintain that love and passion. SH also told me to let WH make a list of why he thinks our M won’t work....then I’m to chip away at every one of those things...not right then and there but within time.

I admit not what I was looking forward to hearing. I was mentally preparing myself for a full plan b. This seems harder to do but what else have I got to do?

I wish I had more $$ to spend because he’s such a great motivator.

WH has been coming around more, lately. He’s wanting to spend more time with DS, has asked if he can come and sleep over again, is wanting to stop by more than usual. All three of us are supposed to go out to dinner in a couple of days. I’m going to let him live it up for now.......whatever he wants..... .......and then I going into modified plan b.

Plan b is going to limit his access to DS and it’s going to be a GREAT inconvenience for me but like SH said I have to do it this way in order to preserve my love for WH. My parents don’t live too close to me and I need my mom to come over and stay while I leave so that I can avoid seeing him. Before he would spend 2-3 hours at each visit at least twice a week....now it’s going to be more like 4 hours a week and he won’t be putting DS to bed anymore, no more baths, bed time story, etc....but I don’t know..... maybe that’s what he needs.

Ark I enjoy reading your posts there are sooooooo inspiring....................I would love to hear your take on all this.

Why is it so difficult for some people to do the right thing?

WH has been coming around a lot lately. He came over last night pretty close to DS bedtime and said he wanted to sleep over to help me with DS. Help me with what? I don’t know because DS finally starting sleeping through the night and his cold has gotten better. Does he miss me? I hate when I do this. I try to analyze everything and the more I try the more angry and confused I get. I just don’t get it. Why won’t he at least try? Anyway, I told him it was fine but he only spent 1 hour with him before we put him down to sleep and we spent 3 hours talking and watching TV.

Steve Harley told me to keep telling him that they are ways for us to have a better M, that SH can help us, etc.... so I took the opportunity to do so. It seems like he was really listening for the most part but then I could tell that he was convincing himself otherwise. He was quite.....just listening..........no response most of the time but then he said no it won’t work......I can’t change so why bother. I said you know anything is possible if you want to but you have to really want to and then he said I don’t want to right now. WH is living it up right about now because he has the best of both worlds.............cake eating at it’s BEST.

Ark, now I know what you meant when you said that you don’t suggest anyone to do plan a without having a set date to go into plan b. It’s easier to do a really good plan a when you know it’s NOT forever.

dev..

I realize that when you are in the mix of it..you can't see the big picture...but when you break down what he is DOING even more so than what he is saying...

you have a ws that is LISTENING to you....

ofcourse he's going vebally tango...but the truth is he is not a victim to his choices...he makes them over and over...

WH has been coming around a lot lately.

He was quite.....just listening

and my favorite....

I can’t change so why bother. I said you know anything is possible if you want to but you have to really want to and then he said I don’t want to right now <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

your plan B is going to hit this guy like a ton of bricks...and it comes at a perfect time..


you have his attention
he has propositioned you of late
he is coming around more...

time for you to speak your boundaries clearly...

start working on your plan B letter...remember it is a letter of love and hope...
a letter about how you can not be part of a triangle or a life of such disrespect...

ARK

Just venting.

After doing so well, I think I might have made a dent in plan a. GREAT. Just a few weeks before plan b.

WH was supposed to visit with DS on Sunday. WH calls sat. morning to inform me that he had forgotten to tell me that his sister wanted to come over on Sunday. I told him how nice it was him to give me advance notice. WH continues to say that their car had broken down and they had already rented a car to drive up here to visit DS. So I reluctantly agreed to let them come. (Besides I wanted it out of the way before I go into plan b.) He asks if he can come too so they can watch the pre-football show at my house. (the nerve of him...he doesn’t want us but he wants the convenience of my home for HIM to entertain his family). I said I prefer just SIL and her family.

They were supposed to arrive at 2 by 2:30 I call WH and asks if she is still coming because I haven’t heard from anybody.....he says yes they should be arriving soon. It’s 3 and they still have arrived or called so I call WH and asks what’s going on. Says he doesn’t know. I asked what time was he coming over and he said I thought you didn’t want me to come. Of course, not while SIL was there but after they left it was fine(WH never comes early on sundays). WH says make up your mind........what do you want....we all have to work around your schedule. I lost it. Work around MY schedule. He has a twice of week schedule and I don’t let him have it when he breaks it and tries to rearrange. I said well who’s schedule should I work around YOURS? I stayed home today for YOU to visit with DS not SIL. You sprung this on me at the last minute and now you’re not coming because you want to watch the super bowel with your sister and brother....blah blah blah. I couldn’t stop............verbal diarrhea. I didn’t yell but I let him know I was extremely upset.

In the back of my mind of kept telling myself plan a......................but I couldn’t help it. I messed up.........and I don’t feel bad about it. If WH wants to use this scenario as justification........so be it.......I’m sick and tired of all this cr*p.

Hopefully, I’ll get to write my PBL this week.

Ark, should one always end plan a on a high note?

My love and respect for my WH is rapidly diminishing. No matter how hard I try to plan a lately it’s just not happening. His behavior lately has told me loud and clear that he doesn’t give a d*mn about any one but himself.

Last night for the first time I LB him. We had a bad snow storm and were snowed in and he didn’t even ask if we needed anything or offer to help with shoveling. Sure, he offered after the fact. But that really struck a nerve with me as to how selfish and uncaring he really is right now. WH comes to visit DS on Tuesdays and Thursdays and sometimes on Sundays. Well he tells me last night that he can’t come today and wants to reschedule....of course he does it’s valentine’s day why would he want to spend it with DS when he can spend it with OW instead.....DS will be here tomorrow and the day after that but Valentine’s day is one day that he wants to prove to OW that it’s really over between us..................so he wants to prove it by spending time with her today......I’m sure. I lost it. I told him to grow up and start acting like a man and a father........that how sad it is to know that DS can be replaced so easily by some wh*re and I just hung up on him.

I finished writing my plan b letter but have to fax it to SH for feedback. I must go into plan b soon because if I don’t there really won’t be any love left with which to rebuild if that were to ever happen........which I don’t think it will.

I’m more at peace lately and know for SURE now that the baby and I will be fine and will survive without him. I was scared to live my life alone with a newborn but guess what my infant is hardly a baby anymore and I’ve made it past one of the most difficult times in my life and I survived it. I am not scared anymore. My son was definitely a blessing..........for I would not have made it without him.