LO:

How is a hair style equivalent to an event or a spouses behavior that affects you emotionally?

-Qfwfq

I agree Low ... it's an art, isn't it?

If my wife goes to the salon and runs into ugly stick while she's there, it certainly evokes an emotional response in me. I may be repulsed.

My point is that I have to temper my responses, yet be honest. My wife HAS come home with ugly hairstyles before...

Compare "Wow, what a rat's nest!" to "Honey, I think I liked that last style on you better."

Both are radically honest, yet only the latter seeks to preserve her dignity and ensure she is valued in my eyes.

Well then, there you are.

It's an art.

Do you not employ RH because it's not easy?

-Qfwfq

And, one more thought on the subject.

Ever fill out a serious medical survey? There are questions on there about your genetic history of illness in your family, especially those of your parents.

Those questions are there for a reason.

I am NOT going to get into the morality of this issue. The one and only comment I am going to make is exactly what I have said.

//Larry

Hmmm,

Eventually, the child has a right to know the truth... medical reasons for instance.. heart diseases, things like that are biologically important. Secondly, imagine the lawsuit from the angry 'fooled' father for back childsupport. It's one thing to support a child that is yours by lineage, and its another thing to support someone else's child by choice... it's entirely different to be deceived into supporting a child that isn't yours.

Do you take something from everyone involved? You bet. But, I also gotta go with the ol saying, the truth will set you free. I'd confront the mother, and tell her, she can admit the truth, or, you will help her in the process. Anyone that would lie like that isn't really someone I'd want as a friend...just too much scariness in that head.

I think that a 3rd person has a different responsibility than the spouse. The spouse should always be completely honest for the sake of the marrige. A 3rd person should look at the circumstances.

I totally believe that my DSS knew about WH's A. Although I do wish he had told me, I don't blame him for hiding it from me. I think he truly believed that I would kill his father.

I still have some resentment towards other people that knew of A and didn't tell me. I'm not so much mad that they didn't tell me as I am that they didn't put more pressure on WH to come clean. That said, I would not keep my mouth shut if I knew of an ongoing A.

The way I see it, a person on their deathbed is about to find out anyway. Why make their last days miserable.

LO,

My WH's grandmother was someone we had seen regularly.Just from the last visit with her before she died,she knew something was wrong.She may have been ill but she was still very aware and smart.If she had not been ill then it would have been hard to keep anything from her,she is always concerned about the wellbeing of everyone.Ultimately we would have had to tell her something,like why we weren't affectionate anymore,why I was going separately to family gatherings,etc.

But she was one who didn't give up easily until she felt she had the truth.And it would have been crushing.No one in my WH's family gets D'd.You just don't do that.Once you are married you are married for life,come whatever problems.It will be the first D in my WH's family since eons(if there ever was one before).To them it's shameful.

I suppose we could have just given basic info like we had marital trouble,etc but then that wouldn't be entirely honest either.Since the whole rest of the family knew all the details,it seemed unlikely that we wouldn't be honest with her too but it never came about that way.

By the way,how are things going for you? Anymore contact from the OW? How about your W? Are you still considering moving to SA?

O

When to tell all of truth is sometimes a very slipery slope that we all must ponder.
My wife, who was my GF at the time, left me to alledgedly tend to her very ill father(on the other coast,3000 miles away).
She was away from me for about 7 mos.
Three years into our marriage, she finally confessed to me that her father was not ill, but she actually went there to give birth to another man's child. I HAD NO CLUE!!!!!
Did this truth help me in any way? 35 years later, I still have obsessive thouhts about it. She should have told this to me, before we got married. I would have viewed this as a major red flag. I have perservered with this truth all of my life and it has nearly destroyed me!!
I now question whether my first born son is mine or not!!
My wife was PG when we got married and I now Question whether he was really mine or not. So much for the truth!!
Nonetheless, life has been good and God still reigns in Heaven. I don't know anything about what is true anymore, I simply know that God has a purpose and a plan for each and every one of us in life. That plan may never be revealed until we are finally with Him.
Sometimes, the truth is what we can live with, not to be confussed with the truth that can destroy us!
All Blessings,
Jerry

Maybe not live but what purpose would it serve to tell him just before he died? Even if Mel was 100% sure it would make no sense to tell him

Although I’m a firm believer in Honesty, I do believe that some truths should never be told.

I want to use an example from my own life: I was sexually abused (including incest) by my father’s youngest brother between the ages of 2 and 5. Some background: My uncle is 13 years older than me so at the time of the abuse he was between the age of 15 and 18. He have gotten some serious brain damage during his birth because of an oxygen deficiency and had to attend a “Special School” because of this while he was growing up.

I finally revealed the truth about the abuse to my parents after more than 25 years. By that time, my uncle was married with 2 daughters already and I was afraid he would molest his own 2 daughters as well, so the temptation to reveal this info also to his wife (by letter), was very, very strong. But I also realized at the time that if I would indeed reveal the truth to his wife, from my side it would also be an act of revenge born out of feelings of years of hate, anger and bitterness towards my uncle… I also realized the revealing of the truth to his wife would hurt innocent victims, probably lead to a divorce and the truth would most probably also reach the ears of the whole family and most importantly by grandfather and grandmother (who was already old and sick at the time). So I didn’t really knew what to do at the time…

I asked my counselor for advice and guidance on this serious issue and she advised my against informing his W. I’ve decided to write a letter to my uncle and to have a face-to-face confrontation and discussion with him in stead. During the discussion, my uncle revealed that he was sexually abused as a child himself and that he was consumed by guilt over the years of what he did to me. He also assured me that he never laid a hand on his 2 daughters. He asked my forgiveness. In the end, things worked out well and I finally received the peace as was longing for.

I just want to conclude by saying that I know today that informing his wife (and other family members other than my parents and husband) would indeed be the wrong thing to do. Some things are better left in the past.

To the ladies I'd like for you to imagine for a minute and wonder how you would feel if hospitals routinely mixed up babies and women were raising babies that were not the ones they gave birth? Imagine that those same hospitals were being protected because to reveal the truth would do great harm to the children? How would YOU feel?

TMCM

So, the general conclusion is that we should only reveal the truth in cases where WE (the truth-holders) decide it should be revealed.

And how do we make that decision? WE decide if we think it's worth people hurting or not.

SO...How can anyone justify exposing an affair?

We clearly have a double standard at work here.

I now doubt those who advocate exposing affairs do so out of conviction and principle since they tend to shed that same conviction and principle in similar situations.

I think it's being done out of some sense of indignant righteousness. Some belief that the cheater must be punished...and exposing them makes sure they get in the trouble they deserve.

As many have said, we should examine our own hearts about these matters. If our motives are not pure, then we should keep our mouths shut.

It reminds me of so many who advised my wife to kick me to the curb...they did so because THEY were offended by my action and wanted to see me suffer...not because they wanted the best outcome for my family.

Personally, I am an advocate of the truth...dispensed in a loving, caring way. Secrets destroy lives.

If we are willing to acknowledge that SOME secrets should be kept, then we cannot stand on principle we we advocate that affairs should be exposed.

Exposure of affair CAN be damaging and result in devastation. However, we should recognize that it's not the exposure itself, but the deception and acts associated with the truths that cause the pain.

People deserve to live their lives with dignity and sovereignty. Secrets prevent them from doing this.

Low

LO,

I'm with you on this one but remember that a WS who keeps the truth about his/her affair from his/her BS has erected a wall of secrecy that makes it practically impossible to have true intimacy [the sharing of ones deepest thoughts and feelings] and makes it possible for that WS to have another affair in the future.

Now as far as the paternity issue is concerned, I beleive that it is just a self serving excuse when women state that they kept this secret because they don't want to hurt their BH and OC. The truth is that they really don't want to face the consequences of their actions.

TMCM

Amen!

For a man I cannot think of a bigger lie or betrayal than this. My god a man deserves to know the truth and then make his decision.

If we cannot even be honest about this then I don't see any reason to be honest in a marriage. Makes me think that maybe DNA testing should be done at every birth. It doesn't sound like a lot of women would ever tell the poor guy.

The problem with a third party knowing the truth about a paternity and choosing to keep it a secret is that the person becomes a co-conspirator. Most laws indict people who CHOOSE to become co-conspirators of a crime. Granted that so far it is not a crime to knowingly deceive a man that a child is his biologically, but it is a crime against God and for that those who are co-conspirators will be punish for their choice just as much as the actual perpetrator will be for committing it.

TMCM

I dont know if this point has been made yet, but, what if the kid, or even adult child in this debacle needs medical attention for a hereditary disease or other type of medical history that could help make their lives better?
I mean, we all are routinely asked about our medical history by our doctors, and in some cases knowing that somebody in your family had cancer, high blood pressure, or heart disease can help diagnose illnesses earlier and treat them accordingly.

It is very important to know all of this data, and if somebody is hiding the truth about the heritage of a child they might as well be doing harm by omitting ailments that could be detected earlier if they knew there was a history of them through the father.

Just a thought.

Indeed. It just goes to show you how destructive a sin of omission truly is.

Probably the only time the truth should be withheld is when it poses a very real and grave danger to others.

There is a saying that states that evil can only thrive if good people do nothing to stop it.


TMCM

Thanks for asking, OG. Nope, no more contact from OW. W and I have been cordial to each other. There was some good talking, but nothing toward reconciling. I am settling into being separated. There are times when it is very lonely, but other times when it is nice to have some peace. My social life tends to revolve around my daughters, work and my new church. I still wear my wedding ring. STBXW has removed hers.

The transfer to S.A. is becoming less likely. More likely it will be Washington. That will put me a couple of thousand miles away from here. Good way restart with a clean slate.

Despite the loneliness, I'm no longer interested in reconciliation. I'm looking forward to rebuilding my life anew.

Low

How old are your daughters? I don't remember.