How true. Anybody remember "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone"?

TMCM

I don't believe in the death penalty either....

I used to be pro-abortion and anti-death penalty

Now I am anti-abortion and pro-death penalty

what a "whirled"

I am strongly in favor of Pro-Choice but oppose the death penalty.So I too am divided.

I guess when I think about it in depth,the main reasoning for me is that my rights for an abortion would be taken away even in extreme cases such as incest or rape.I would NEVER carry the child of a male family member or rapist,EVER.Even if I had to throw myself down a flight of stairs at the Empire State Building to miscarry.If I had no support or option of a safe abortion procedure like we still have now then that is what I would do.What if a condom breaks and pregnancy occurs? Or the mother's health is at satke? What then?

And then there's the age old question about when after conception a human life is actually "being".One day,two,a week. a month? People have opposing views on this too.

O

I'm consistent..I think... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Anti-Abortion AND Anti-Death Penalty....

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Sometimes I am for the death penalty, sometimes I am not. Doesn't matter now though, it's bye bye for the tookster.

O girl....

lemme tell you how my pro-abortion views were changed

long time ago.... I worked in a free-standing women's health clinic as a volunteer patient advocate for abortion ... and it was pretty sad most of the time

years later ... I was working in NICU trying to save preemies as young as 22-24 weeks ... and the incongruity of both those choices got to me

so I switched teams!

It ain't a fetus ... it's a baby! ooops ...

for a long time I was anti-abortion and anti-death penalty

the turn came for me during the Peterson trial ... he killed his own fetus .... and I thought "Hey, who needs protection in this world? Babies or murderers?"

I pick babies ... that's where I am today .... one of Tookie's victims was a child .... Tookie has no need for my mercy .... His victims and the families he destroyed, I reserve my mercy for them.

I leave Tookie to God for his final judgement .... but I believe in following the law

so when someone wants an abortion, I give her the phone # .... that's the law

and when Tookie slaughtered 4 people and was condemned to die for his crimes ... OK by me ... it's the law

Me too.

Unborn babies are helpless innocents with no choice in the matter.

Killers know the law before they commit the crime.

"If you can't do the time, don't commit the crime."

At least he knows it's coming, his poor victims didn't.
They should just shoot him, bullets are cheaper.

Pep,

I have been in NICU's too.What will not ever change my mind though is not carrying the pregnancy of an incestuous act or rape.Never.If my option for a safe procedure and my rights are somehow taken away then I will do what I need to to end that pregnancy.But aside from those extreme types of situations,I do not advocate late term abortions either.A choice has to be made right away,as soon as a pregancy is made known.Hopefully women are attuned to their bodies,cycles and birth control issues as they should be so late term abortions are a thing of the past.

Regarding this tookie person,dying is too easy.Making him rot in a small cell without any stimuli so he can go insane is more like it to me.But like you said,God is the judge.


O

Pep, I too believed in a women's right to choose, and thought men should be left out of the equation. Then, in 1979, I saw a crude sonogram of our first son, and knew it was a baby, pretty early on in the pregnancy. My mind changed instantly, however I recognize some of the points O-girl makes are valid....incest, rape, are unsavory conditions at best, but for post coital birth control, I don't agree. I'll leave the debate up to others where to draw the line, but I don't envy anyone put in a position where abortion is to be considered an option.

On the death penalty, growing up in the state in which the Clutter family was ruthlessly slaughtered, and offenders Hickok and Smith were put to death under the law, it just seemed to be a proper justice. I hope the move "Capote" covers that topic in a fair manner.

I think the death penalty should be carried out much sooner than it normally is, though, and the court system needs to be able to process the full range of appeals in no more than 3 years from the time of arrest. Warehousing the condemned for longer is cruel and unusual punishment, in my humble opinion.

SD

It's sad to me that the most dangerous time in your life was in your mother's womb.

I miscarried my first child about 24 years ago at 8 weeks after conception..still grieve over that loss...

I know of loved ones who had abortions that are grieving about that decision like I continue to grieve over that miscarriage..

That's just me....my opinion...

Well,

Since Tookie is the subject de jur today (notice I cannot spell French any better than I can English? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> ) I thought I would through a few thoughts in.

I have a good friend who is very very adament against the death penalty. Well, one day he made a comment that I could NOT ignore. I pointed out to him that the anti-death penalty portion of this country (actually I know few people that ENJOY such a thing as they did during the French revolution) had carried the day and the death-penalty was abolished all through the land. They had victory in hand and then from that they snatched defeat by then pushing for "life" sentences to be shorted. And LO convicted murders were put back on the street where they did...what many murders do, they murder again.

Gradually, the political scene changed as "life" meant more and more less time than served for bankrobbing. And the death-penalty was back.

It makes sure that in the future this person cannot do it again. I don't take any great satisfaction in this other than I know no one I know, care for, or love will be the victim of this person.

If somehow we could be guaranteed that "life" without parol meant that truely and would mean that 50 years from now, I think the death penalty would again vanish. Although I agree with someone that it would somehow seem more satisfying if things were a bit harsher.

And I agree we as a society seem to have no trouble terminating our future (babies) but have a bigger problem with a KNOWN commodity. Seems odd.

JL

PS: I think it was Pep that mentioned Scott Peterson. I find it interesting he is sentenced to death for a double homicide, but if his W had decided to terminate the pregnancy she is/was fine. Also interesting thing about Peterson case and our friend <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> Barreta. IN Peterson there was NO evidence linking him to the crimes, just circumstantial and he gets death. In "Barretta's" case there were witnesses and considerable evidence and he gets off. Odd how these things work, and it is I believe one reason that people don't like the death penalty.

The death penalty doesn't reduce murders. It doesn't reduce crime. It is pure and simple vengeance.

The number of people recently removed from death row is an indictument of our judicial process. It is pretty clear we have more than a few over-zealous prosecutors and vengeful jurors.

Again, Tookie is a sh*tbum and certainly should be locked up for the rest of his life. I'm not minimizing his conduct.

As to abortion and the death penalty, if you agree that the government has the right to kill a person in some circumstances, then you have to agree that a woman has a right to kill her fetus in some circumstances. You can't have it both ways.

The Catholic Church's stance on abortion and the death penalty is consistent and moral--they oppose both.

I get concerned, too, about those on death row that have been wrongfully accused...

I can better TOLERATE the death penalty for ADMITTED MURDERERS....

Mimi,

That is exactly what I fear too.Killing for a crime where there could be a mistake in the judgment.Unless there is one way to be 100% certain all the time I don't think it is worth the risk of killing one innocent human being for a crime he/she didn't commit.

O

I have always been anti-abortion...but I didn't become anti-death penalty until AFTER I became a Christian.

"For the wages of sin is DEATH..."

I have been shown great mercy for atrocities against God. I should have been crucified...not Him.

How can I accept His gift...yet insist on NOT allowing Him to show the same to Tookie...

BTW...There is NO punishment that can serve justice in the case of murder...even execution. I think all the death penalty does is serve our need for revenge against such a heinous act. We want to make him suffer and die as he did his victims...as if that will somehow make us all sleep better at night.

I don't know Tookie. But the death penalty diminishes us all as a civilized people. It's less about Tookie than it is about us.

Low

So, we would say that Nazi German was a just government? Stalin's USSR? Saddam's Iraq?

So any law enacted by government is right...simply because it's the government?

Sorry, that doesn't wash...

BTW, I happen to believe Paul's motive in writing this was to ensure Christians didn't become "dangerous" to the Roman empire...lest they be quickly eradicated.

Actually, I don't believe the death penalty is vengence. I think it removes the possibility that this person will harm another person. As for innocent people dying, I hate that, but then probably half of the roughly 30,000 - 50,000 people who die on the highway every year are innocent of anything other than being at the wrong place at the wrong time.

At least the people on death row got a trial, and appeals, ect. Those on the highway never got a chance. And neither does a fetus.

So I guess the few innocent that may be mistakenly killed seem to pale compared to the number of innocent people and soon to be people that die every year.

Admitting innocence or not is not a valid judge of someones guilt. And founding the Crips gang which has itself caused the death of many, is not a good way to head toward Sainthood.

Must go.

JL