Really need some help here and different perspectives. I'm in love with a woman 20 yrs younger than myself. Most of the time I believe and feel that she is in love with me. We talk about our future.... taking it slow...and moving ahead one step at a time. We have been together 8 mos and have seen each other everyday except for perhaps 5 days since starting dating. We have worked through various obstacles including her exboyfriend, telling her mother about our relationship, and other things that challenge new relationships.

We talk about living together and agree that we will start spending more nights together but this hasn't happened. Currently we usually spend a night together every other weekend when she is off work and a rare night in between. When I remind her that we have agreed to spend more nights together she simply says "It will happen". I found out last night that while her mother is cordial towards me she is also racist (this an inter-racial relationship). My girlfriend has her own apartment and lives alone but her mother also lives just down the street and my girlfriend spends lots of time there. She often makes the point that she is an adult and that she needs to start acting like one but I have a fear that her mother may be the reason that we don't openly spend nights together. My girlfriend states that she doesn't care if her mother knows that we spend nights together but she always leaves my house early in the morning and goes back to her own home before her mother gets out of bed.

Do I just need to wait until my girlfriend is "ready" to live with me or do I need to walk away from this relationship. We have even talked about having kids and marriage. I believe my girlfriend loves me but I also fear that she may be living in a fantasy world.....afraid to take the steps to make her life a reality. When I tell her this she says if we start living together we might get tired of each other.....so why do we even talk about it I ask........her response is because "I want to do it" Help! Am I not being objective here or trying to move too fast?

What IS the age difference?

I grew up in a racist house myself, and my family is still ALL very hurtful for some reason, but I've overcome their damage. I can tell you though, that when I was younger they had a bigger influence on me. I didn't want to deal with their reactions to someone I was dating, and in the long run, it didn't work out. So, she could be feeling some pressure there. Unfortunately not everyone is beyond their racism, even though she may be.

Maybe I'm a little old fashioned but I think if'n you're wanting that kind of committment then you put a ring on a finger and set a date.

That being said, that she won't open up to you the true reason would identify that y'all have some communication issues going on. Those might stem from maturity levels and places in life.

Let me ask you a very serious question, what attracted this girl to you? What was her home life growing up? I'm really curious if she's looking for a mate or a father figure or if you could be revenge on her folks?

Thankx all for the replies; Drita there is a 20 year age difference, I am 54, she is 34. I think by 34 one should be able to make critical decisions.....may be wrong though. She had been in an interracial relationship previously and it never worked out because she was "afraid". I've asked her about us and she affirms that she loves me yet we cannot seem to move to points we both desire. At least I do; perhaps she is living a fantasy of forbidden fruit or something.

Since my post I have told her that until she decides what she wants we would refrain from spending ANY nights together just stick to dating. She says this hurts her and can't understand. Am I missing something here or being selfish?

Yes, you are missing something in my opinion. You are saying to her that it is your way or no way, that is selfish and controlling. Who are you to make the rules? Who are you to DEMAND that if you can't have it your way, then there will just be no more all nighters? In my opinion this is one problem with the age difference, the elder tends to take an authoratative role rather than an equal relationship. A lot of the youger people seeking these relationships do so for that purpose to a point then they want equality.....

What is wrong with the way things were? If you truly want commitment there is a thing called marriage. Otherwise, work together as equals, no one person calling the shots, and have fun.

losthusband.....your handle fits you well... there are no demands here as I see it but rather a cautious perspective. Rather than let things progress in a fashion that is certainly headed for doom....I just decided to halt things...what's wrong with that. Anyone who continues in a relationship where there is unilateral compromise or doing things that make them uncomfortable is not going to end up in a good position. As for harping on the age difference I don't think that is as much an issue as you perceive. Many people have a large gap in their ages and enjoy a fruitful relationship. This occurs when the couple is open minded compatible and committed; there is not always some lost psychological need or barrier. You often find what your are looking for when you start to "analyze"; I am a healthcare provider and no the dangers of untrained advice.

You have chosen a path that is evidently working for you but you certainly don't have all the right answers otherwise you wouldn't be here.

Most of the people here have one thing in common....failed marriage(s). Most of us are moving on and trying not to make mistakes we made in the past, in our future relationship. You seem to have all the answers and are very judgemental ......you either are a very successful person or one who blows a lot of smoke.

Heh. I reckon you don't know Bill at all, excpa. I could not help but laugh over the idea that that plain-talking rustic with his history of mistakes and hard knocks could be characterized as a judgemental know-it-all. That's about as far from his true nature as you could get, I think. And the irony here is that Bill has offered you wisdom about relationships which you could easily take as an encouragement to continue on a path which runs counter to his moral system: to wit, the over-nighters. Bill (I think correctly) sees your unilateral approach to dictating the terms of your relationship, along with the questionable honesty you are getting from your girlfriend, as more destructive than the pre-marital sex; and he also recognizes the pointlessness of trying to "force" his moral system on someone who presumably does not share its foundation.

The concerns raised by Bill are quite natural given the circumstances you've described. He did not "harp" on the age difference; he merely made an observation about a problem inherent in the majority of age-gap relationships - one which in my opinion is something which must be watched out for even in healthy age-gap relationships. And I say that as someone who has given very serious thought to a relationship with a woman fifteen years younger than myself. (Heck, I would still marry her without hesitation if she herself had any interest.)

I see another caution flag in the fact that this woman spends a lot of time with her mother. That could be perfectly natural and healthy, but it could also signify an unhealthy level of enmeshment, which would play havoc in her relationship with you. It's another reason to call into question the possible imbalance in maturity levels.

It's good thing that you know the dangers of untrained advice, but I hope you also know its potential value. Personally, I value Bill's viewpoint much more than I would a lot of trained psychologists - and I say that as someone who has very much appreciated the counsel I have gotten from a trained psychologist. Trained psychologists do not have a monopoly on wisdom, and in fact many offer downright dangerous advice.

Good points and well delivered Gnome.......didn't mean to bash Bill... he evidently has strong moral values and that is admirable. I too believe that an individual must have strong moral fiber but you can't use that fiber to make clothes for everybody.

Perhaps I do need to see my behaviour in a different perspective. I basically go by a concept called Loeb's law which basically states: "If when faced with a problem and what you're doing is working, keep doing it, if what you're doing is not working you stop doing it, if you don't know what to do......don't do anything". We cannot control the beliefs and actions of others in our environment......we can only react, respond, or ignore. These interactions determine the future of any relationship.

You're absolutely right when you speak of wisdom. No one has been afforded the ultimate experiences and knowledge to make them an expert in all things. We respond or react according to our own experiences and events in life; sometimes these become the most useful source of wisdom.

Your response shows a high level of what I call intelligent wisdom. Your mention of a possible unhealthy "enmeshment" of my girlfriend with her mother is probably the best characterization of her relationship that I have received, thankx.

Fortunately, or unfortunately my response has allowed and prompted new growth in the relationship. We found out that we were in the same book, same chapter, but just a few pages apart. Now we have to get on the same line and go forward. I do believe that a large age gap is a potential problem; to this date we have not encountered any major obstacles and do not feel the need to create any. We will deal with those when they come.

Morals are morals - like the rest of our values they too sometimes evolve. At one time I felt that divorce was morally and spirtually wrong but the events of the last 4 years have changed my feelings on this. Have my morals "changed" I think not. I had the belief that marriage was a sacred institution and I still feel that way but now I believe that all marriages are not sacred. I say that to say this.....we all have the right to believe what we do but our standards should not be applied to others. We can make those standards known but should not bang those who choose not to adopt them.

Thankx again for your post - - - - pretty objective and valid observations.

Ecxpa,

I am around your GF's age and I have a very close relationship with my mother. I value her opinions and consider her one of my closet friends. That being said I think you need to proceed with caution. Most mothers want their daughters to be happy. A 20 year age gap would be a concern for my mother. You also said that her mother is racist.

Both are issues that your GF must be willing to face if the relationship is going to work. I can't imagine the stress she could be facing because of the relationship. I know what my mom would be saying. So your GF is probably torn between you and her family.In my opinion, your GF is probably hiding the seriousness of your relationship to her mom. If you move in together, her mom gets the whole picture.

I think some serious communication needs to occur, not just about living together, but where the relationship stands and where it can go. I believe that for any relationship to work, it must be out in the open. From your post, I think your GF is trying to keep yours somewhat hidden.

Luckystar thankx.....you're pretty much right....my GF's mother doesn't realized how close our relationship is. I have told my GF that I would not become a wedge between her and her mother. Her mother is cordial towards me and that is the best I can hope for at this time. However, I have told my GF basically the same thing you suggested.

I must clarify a position though; we are not to the point of considering living together. The issue is that we are spending nights together and she prefers her mother not know. She states she is not "hiding" anything from her but I feel that this is hiding something. Moving in together may or may not happen depending upon where the relationship goes. Right now it is not at that point.

I have told her that until she is ready to let her family know how involved we are, that we need to stop "hiding", and simply not spend nights together.

You're right about the age and human nature to stand back but it's a fact neither of us can change. I reckon we just have to deal with it realistically and see. Other issues are in the forefront right now though.

Thanks again.

I had to giggle at your comment about my name fitting me, I actually do need to change it, I was happily married earlier this year.

(((Gnome))) You know I love you brother...

(((ecxpa))) I like your little fiber statement and how true that is. As Gnome pointed out and as is true, the advise and observation I offered was done so outside of my standards and my morals with that in mind.


If it's perspective you want, then you've came to the right place, we gots plenty of that round here coupled with a lot of wisdom. There are people here who have been through anything you can imagine. Some of us have read dang near every relationship book known to man. Some of us have offer advise wrapped up in fancy words, some of us are more blunt, and then there is me, who simply offers what's in my heart based upon what you've offered and what I see. I ain't full of fancy words, my neck well some might call it a little red, but I challenge you to seek similarities rather than differences. No one here is out to attack, hurt, or anything else, so if someone offers something then look at and see if you can find validity in what they say.


Is that a fancy way of calling Gnome a [email]Smart@$$....[/email] <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />



Care to share...?

losthusband...thankx for your post. I'm sure people here all have a story. No one likes to get bashed and sometimes the truth does hurt as we all know. You're right in that we should seek similarities rather than differences. I also believe that most here are simply trying to survive their losses and recover to a productive relationship whether it be be with their WS or someone new. As far as my own relationship I see a lot of flags other than age at the moment...that's what I meant when I said other issues are in the forefront now.

Perhaps my backing down and saying that I don't want my GF to spend anymore nights at my house, nor will I spend any more at hers for now, is a control mechanism I fail to see and selfish as you say it is. When people start spending nights together whether "right" or "wrong" to me signifies a higher level of committment than casual dating. I have simply stated that if my GF feels as though she has to hide this fact from her mother then perhaps we are not as close together as we perceive. It's simply backing up and reevaluating the relationship. I believe it is critical that a couple know where each other stands in order for the relationship to flourish.

In summary I have said that we don't have to spend nights together in order for our relationship to continue, but if we do choose to spend nights together I feel very uncomfortable in "hiding" it and I'm just not gonna do that. I see this as reasonable.....help me see where this is selfish and controlling......anybody?

“””Perhaps my backing down and saying that I don't want my GF to spend anymore nights at my house, nor will I spend any more at hers for now, is a control mechanism I fail to see and selfish as you say it is.”””

OK let me ask you something, what changed? Why on let’s say Thursday did you make this decision after spending how ever many nights together, what changed? You’ve talked about making babies and living together in the future but all of a sudden the status quo of the relationship is no longer good enough for you, so again what changed? And in this instance rather than striking a compromise it seems you are planting your foot and saying ‘it’s my way or no way’, that is where I see it as selfish and controlling. It doesn’t appear that any other dynamics of the relationship changed except your opinion.

Hmm. It seems to me that there is a distinction, subtle but nonetheless important, between unilaterally "changing the rules" in a relationship for the sake of manipulation or control (quite possibly as an unconscious motivation) and unilaterally asserting boundaries.

In lordslady's thread, we can see a clear example of the latter case - although even in her situation she excited suspicion that she was trying to manipulate her boyfriend into marrying her.

The situation here is less clear to me. I can appreciate the necessity of "backup up and reevaluating the relationship" under the conditions described, and it is perfectly natural that after a boundary is shifted in one direction the move might be discerned as unwise, with the result that the boundary needs to be moved back again to a greater or lesser degree.

I too would be very uncomfortable with the suspicion that my partner perceived something to be so wrong with or in the relationship that it needed to be hidden, and I would want to adjust the nature of the relationship so that neither of us felt that this was necessary. In fact I believe I would consider this to be an essential boundary, and I would insist on talking the matter out.

What makes the situation less clear for me is that I don't completely follow the logic which identifies the suspension of the overnighters as the appropriate place to draw the line. If the woman in question doesn't feel comfortable with her mother knowing that she sleeps with you, ecxpa, (which is not something I see as clearly established by the information provided), then I think it's important to find out why.

Think about it this way: engaging in sex without the overnighters only makes it easier for the activity to be hidden (whether actually hidden or merely hidden to the degree that the lack of proof enables a polite pretense that nothing is going on). If this behavior gives rise to dissonance, then something is still wrong, and needs to be addressed.

There are many scenarios which may be imagined here, but for the sake of argument I suggest just two. In the first, ecxpa, your girlfriend believes that sleeping with you is shameful. In the second, she has no problem with it herself, but feels that hiding it is necessary to keep peace with her mother. I'm sure you can see that the manner in which these two scenarios need to be dealt with would likely be very different.

Gnome...thankx again. Fortunately, things have improved as far as defining our relationship. My girlfriend has no issues with sex and enjoys sleeping with me; we both have a healthy attitude in this regard. The latter scenario you described in your final paragraph was the issue. My GF was afraid that her mother would have issues with the relationship...... not necessarily about sex but rather the age difference. She has revealed our relationship to her mother and now we can let the relationship evolve into whatever it does. SEX HAS NEVER BEEN THE ISSUE HERE.....it was the fact that my GF did not let her mother know about the relationship because of the age difference. Her mother is cordial and accepting, I look forward to enjoying life with my GF now whether or not we spend more nights together or continue as we have been doing. We can now truly enjoy spending time together with no restrictions! Hope your situation evolves favorably.