LL, you need to start being a good steward. You need to take care of yourself as you would any of God's prized possessions. You also need to be a good steward of your daughter because that is truly the role God places parents in. If you don't come home until 7 pm, how do expect to have time for a troubled teen and a relationship? You don't have the time. You need to choose. And don't even think of telling me how she's gone all night, etc., so you aren't taking time away from her. You need to be sitting around waiting for her to show up. You need to show she's the only priority in your life. Show it with tough love by all means, but show it.

If you are sick and miserable for two months because of R, when your daughter is in such turmoil, she can't be the top priority. If she were the top priority, R wouldn't really register at all because you'd be up for months worrying about your daughter.

On a final note, your daughter won't respect you until you respect yourself.

[color:"red"]Last spring, I had to drop everything and deal with a depressed, self-injuring, suicidal 14 year old daughter. And NOTHING else mattered. My goal was to get her through everything and get her the help she needed. I had to fight her father. Negotiate with her school. Fight her stepmother. Negotiate and deal with a psychiatric hospital. Because she needed it. I was the only one with the guts to do it.

Do you know who told me that was job one?

Do you?

Do you want to guess?

There is NO relationship you have now - no earthly relationship - no earthly responsibility more important than your relationship with and responsibility to your daughter.

Any man is way down the list.

LL, go look at that daughter.

Go see who should matter more than R.

Give him up and get right/do right by your daughter.

Or are you too chicken to do it?
Do you have the guts to do it?
Are you woman enough?
Can you walk with God on this?

[/color]

Alluring,


Did you not read:



Actually, if you'd talk to the people who know me around here, you'd be aware that I blame myself for most of my daughter's issues because I feel like somehow I should have been able to fix everything, and that I've been reminded that I was only 50% to blame and that her father played a big part, AND that she is of an age where she has to be responsible for her own choices as well.

CM,


This is something that very much angers me, not what you said, but what was done. I didn't know this. I truly was told that she no longer qualified because her math probes were within the normal range, and that since that was what originally qualified her, they had no reason to keep her in. And so I agreed. No one told me differently, until I met "R" who happens to be a special ed teacher. He explained to me shortly after we started dating what had happened (that basically her school knew she would be difficult, knew they would be responsible by law for providing an appropriate education as long as she had an IEP, and so they got me to agree to drop her from the program when she came up on her 3-year re-evaluation). But by this time, it was way too late to do anything. I've signed the papers, she's been out of the program for 2 years, and she was by this time failing in the alternative school. I am angry at the school, but what good does it do now? Should I have contacted an attorney when it happened? Maybe. But I trusted that the school was doing what had to be done, because I thought they were the education experts.

Enough said there. Maddening lesson learned too late and one that makes me very angry at that school and has caused me to recommend more than once to people considering her district to NOT put their kids there because they're only interested in the kids that do well (i.e., my son). The others get left in the dust.


I agree. I did go against my earlier statement about her BF not staying. Won't get into dynamics. But I have been very adament about the fact that they do not share a bed under my roof. And it has been explained to both of them that while he seems very nice, if I find him (or anyone who doesn't live here and who I haven't given express permission) here at night after this Friday night, I will call the police.

GG,

Right now my job has become very stressful. It's our year-end (and I'm the accounting director) and we're having some financial crunches when mean more cash flows, more meetings, and more time spent there. There is no way around that. As for waiting up for her, I have done that for two or three years, I've called cops and turned her in if she didn't show by a certain time, I've gone looking for her, I've called around looking for her. At this point, I can't stay awake until 2-3am and still expect to get up and function at work, so I've had to make a choice, and that is go to bed and pray that she's okay.

If she were the top priority, R wouldn't really register at all because you'd be up for months worrying about your daughter.

I'm WAY beyond months. I've spent years worrying about my daughter. I've spent hours and hours and hours talking to teachers, doctors, her therapists, state authorities, police, God, pastors, etc. trying to figure out what to do. This is not a new problem that manifested itself when I started dating.

And I'm not saying "but--but--but" or trying to be stubborn when I ask these next questions. They are truly honest questions that I've asked over and over of people, but not really been able to get resolved. All I get is "You're her mom. It's YOUR responsibility. Set boundaries."

Exactly, specifically, what should I do? How do I force her to live at home? How do I force her to stay at home at night? How do I keep her from hanging with the "wrong crowd"? How at 16 1/2 years old do I change who she is?

Yes, I have been a very poor parent for the most part because my heart was too soft and I wasn't good with being the disciplinarian, and wasn't backed up by the other parent for the 14 years he was around during her life. There are a lot of years of damage done. And those of you who have stated that I need to respect myself in order to get others to respect me are also very correct.

Does any of this make sense? Do you understand what I'm saying here? Do you get my frustration with all of this?? Everyone in my life has been very free with saying "You HAVE to do something!" But no one can give me concrete, DETAILED, step-by-step ideas of things that I can actually do (i.e., "grounding" is meaningless because she will leave while I'm at work, and no police officer will make it his duty to go track her down once I get home and find her gone, nor is it possible for me to find her most of the time).

Your frustrated and frustrating MB member,

LL

Do you really think that they are NOT sharing a bed? What about the hours and hours you are away? I still can't believe that you are allowing a man you DO NOT KNOW to stay in your house!! GET HIM OUT TONIGHT!!!!

cm

She won't...

Do I think you should have taken on the school system? YES! They are required to provide her a place and program in which she can learn. In my city, there have been parents who sued the school system when the system would not do that and had big bucks tuition paid to other schools which specialized in learning differences.

AGG - you are right. this thread is just LL's little diary. We are nuts to waste our time typing to her. She won't do anything because she is so wrapped up in herself and her own issues that she is lacking the energy or the balls to do anything for her daughter.

She hasn't met the child's needs for years and I doubt that she has the ability or desire to do so now. I think she is in denial and that she may simply not want to muster the energy to step up to the plate and do the right thing.

LL, None of this is going to change overnight and I'm sure if you knew a better way to resolve any of your current problems, you'd have already done it. Please just do one thing: take care of yourself. Like the safety lecture at the beginning of every plane trip, don't try to rescue anyone else, grab that oxygen mask and breathe. You're not ready to help anyone else until you've helped yourself by taking some good, long, slow deep breaths.

How to do this? I'd suggest continuing therapy and going to Al-Anon, then staying in faith that if you're doing what you can to take care of yourself, God will do the rest. Don't go to therapy or Al-Anon (or even come here) to find answers for how to fix your problems. Go to learn about yourself and to discover a relationship with your higher power that works.

You have been trying to follow all the rules and still nothing is getting better. Let go of the rules, let go of R, let go of your DD, and focus on LL, only LL and your relationship with God. Believe it or not, if you do this, the dark cloud will slowly lift and all these issues will begin to work themselves out with much less effort than you're putting into them now and getting nowhere.

I too have wanted to withdraw from the discussion because you push my codependent buttons. Many of your struggles demonstrate clearly to me how we are (EACH OF US) our own worst enemies. I want to reach out and help. If I get offended when you don't take my advice, that's my problem. If I choose to keep returning to the discussion to watch you ride your rollercoaster, that's my choice, and if you catch the ring and choose to go around again, that's really none of my business. You can post all you want about yourself, your family, and your relationships (within the MB guidelines, of course) and it's my choice to read and post a response.

LL, you spent 20 years in an alcoholic relationship and you have been deeply affected by it, as were your children. I know because I've been there, too, and have the scars to prove it. One big difference is I'm not as open as you and have made an effort to dodge the flying 2X4's I see aimed your way (Come to think of it, this might be another area where developing boundary setting skills could come in handy!).

I want to offer support without condoning or condemning your choices, attitudes, or actions. I support continued therapy, continued posting, and considering Al-Anon. Your choices regarding R and DD are none of my business, even when you choose to post all the details here.

LL, I wish we could help you, but more importantly I wish you could help yourself.

I hope since you're allowing a total stranger to sleep with your daughter and stay in your house, that you take any and all valuables with you to work every day.

cm

CM,

I have little doubt they have shared a bed at some time, somewhere. Do I agree with it? No. Is she the only sexually active 16 1/2 year old out there? No.

Do they share one here while I'm at work. Possibly? But WHAT IN THE WORLD DO I DO ABOUT IT (besides let it creep me out, which it does)? I have to go to work. I can't drive home every hour. I can't get a police officer to check my house for the heck of it. To the best of my knowledge, 16 is still the legal "age of consent" in Iowa, so there's really no law they're breaking, other than the police could get him for trespassing *if* he happened to be here with her *if* I could get them to check my house in the first place. I do know that she is working now M-F from 10:30am to either 2:30pm or 4pm depending on her schedule, so there is less time for her to be with him. I also know that my son has been in and out during the day, on days he's not working. He heads back to college this weekend; that's why I set the Friday date for having the guy gone. To me, that is the best I could come up with.

There are no valuables in my house except some antiques, and they're not very valuable either. If someone wants to take my wedding ring, they can feel free. It's only worth about $500 and it has little meaning to me anymore.

Cinderella,

I didn't know at the time I could take on the school system for my DD's issues. I was not aware that with an ADHD/ODD diagnosis, they would have had to keep her in special ed. I trusted the school system. I am an accountant. I know zero about education. I trusted the guidance counselor and the area education coordinator and the teachers and principal involved. They do this thing on a regular basis.

But there is no way to go back now, once she's 16 and doesn't even have to attend school, 2 years after the IEP was ended, and fight them now. All I can do at this point is warn others, and that I have done.


But thank you for that little vote of confidence. (Yes, that was sarcastic.) Again, I don't hear any concrete ideas other than CM's idea to get the guy out of the house, which I am going to do, not necessarily on her timeline but because I had already had the Friday talk with them today, that's the date I'm sticking with.

As for meeting her needs, I guess I get a little defensive here. How do you know I haven't met her needs? No one in all of those who have worked with her has questioned my meeting her needs. What I haven't done is held well to boundaries for a very strong-willed, defiant child. Maybe that's one need. But to just make a blanket statement that I haven't met her needs, I feel, is a bit presumptuous.

I have two children, with the other one being an honor student at U of I. He isn't perfect and yes I KNOW he shares a bed with his girlfriend. We've talked about it; he's an adult, and he also doesn't share my biblical convictions. But beyond that he has been in zero trouble, he's never touched alcohol or drugs (even in college), he doesn't smoke, and frankly other than being lazy, he's a pretty good kid. And he got the short end of my parenting stick, because my daughter had more needs and so I spent far more time involved in her issues.

LetSTry,

Thank you for being honest. And yes, I have tried a lot of things with my daughter...far more than anyone here is aware of over the years. What my failure has been on many of them is that after a while she would convince me that things were better and I'd back off. It's my my follow-thru that has been bad, not because I was lazy, but because I wanted to believe in her and trust her and give her another chance. My problem is that I'm not a hard-*ss--not at home; not at work; not in my marriage.



I have been open, when sometimes it's been difficult to share some of what I've shared, because I needed to bounce things off people and I have little in the way of support beyond this board. I am well aware of potential flying 2x4's. Most are deserved.

I am continuing therapy. I am still considering Al-Anon. My pastor has also suggested some study that starts soon at another church having to do with growing with God. I have to check into that. I am trying to involve myself a wee bit with the ladies of the church (all the while considering changing churches, too). And I haven't gone away from here, yet. For an introvert, I am trying to force myself to build a network. It's not easy. I really don't know how to go about it. Since high school, my only good friend was my husband, and he didn't turn out to be that good a friend in the end.

LL

LL,

You want answers and you want to know conrete advice on what you can do with your DD. I second Letstry's post. Help yourself first. If you aren't emotionally healthy then you can't help your daughter. Getting emotionally healthy will help you be able to set and KEEP healthy boundaries for her. You are admitting you haven't done a great job in some areas of parenting. You admit you have been terrible at boundary setting and keeping. Great! Now you can DO something about it. You can move forward from today and START and if you can't or you don't know how then you can get some help.

I can't stress that you attend Alanon enough. You will learn alot about yourself and will learn ways to change. EVEN BETTER you will learn ways to help your daughter. She had an alcoholic parent. It has really affected her. Your Ex wasn't there he was in the bottle. I would guess you weren't there because you were dealing with your Ex. Go to Alanon. We aren't professionals here. We can't tell you what's best. At Alanon you will find life educated people who know and can help you.

You can't help your daughter until you help yourself. Your life will continue to be "dramatic" and kaotic until YOU change it.

Best,
Symphony

"I have little doubt they have shared a bed at some time, somewhere. Do I agree with it? No. Is she the only sexually active 16 1/2 year old out there? No."

So the excuse that everybody else is doing it makes it OK??


"Do they share one here while I'm at work. Possibly? But WHAT IN THE WORLD DO I DO ABOUT IT (besides let it creep me out, which it does)? I have to go to work. I can't drive home every hour. I can't get a police officer to check my house for the heck of it. To the best of my knowledge, 16 is still the legal "age of consent" in Iowa, so there's really no law they're breaking,"

What you do about it is change the locks on your door. What you do about it is don't allow a man to be alone in your house with your daughter.

As to "what law is she breaking"- she is breaking YOUR law and you won't do anyting about it.

"get the guy out of the house, which I am going to do, not necessarily on her timeline but because I had already had the Friday talk with them today, that's the date I'm sticking with. "

So you won't kick him out simply because you already told them a date and you don't want to go back on your word??? THis is a CHILD, not an adult, and YOU ARE HER MOTHER!!

"There are no valuables in my house except some antiques, and they're not very valuable either. If someone wants to take my wedding ring, they can feel free. It's only worth about $500 and it has little meaning to me anymore."

This, I think, is a lame excuse.

I understand you're frustrated. BUt I think, to us, this seems like an easy fix, and soemthing that would NOT allow your daughter to cross your boundaries, which you are not only allowing her to cross, you are in essence encouraging it.


SOrry,
CM

Hi LL.

Look, you have 1.5 years left until your daughter matriculates from your care.

You have another 1.5 years where you are, and should be, the absolute tyrant in your home.

You set the rules, you alone: this isn't to be done by committee.

Here is some practical advice.

Boot boyfriend, today. Buh-bye. Nothing personal. But as a Christian you shouldn’t allow your daughter’s boyfriend to shack up with her in your home. Sorry, this is wrong. She will not respect you for being complicit in this. I know that it might be easier just to allow it, but it sure isn’t right.

Get the locks changed. You and you alone will decide who has access to your home and when. When/if your daughter can be trusted to be in your home alone and follow your rules, then she may get a key.

At this point, your daughter doesn't need a friend . . . she needs a parent. Parent is often a thankless job until years later.

I'm sure money is tight, but if your daughter continues to act as a spoiled child then perhaps you can hire a babysitter to watch her until you get home.

I know as well as you that if your daughter wants to shag her boyfried she will find a way. But I would be [email]d@mned[/email] if I was going to provide the place for her to do it. Let them hide behind a bush out in the weather like a couple of dogs . . .

I have compassion for you LL because I can tell you are really confused.

You have to take control back.

Make rules. When daughter breaks them make the punishment fit the crime. i.e. if she comes home late that means that she doesn’t respect her home and that means she doesn't get in the house.

I'm sorry that this isn't going to be fun or easy, but you are not doing your daughter any favors by allowing her to disrespect you in this way. Stop it.

When I was 15 or so my mother was harping on an on about something and I sort of muttered "leave me alone you annoying b!tch." She closed the distance between us in about 1/2 second and I wore a hand-print across my face for the rest of the day. That was the one and only time my Mother has ever raised a hand to me. I had never been so embarrassed that I caused that from my Mom. I never spoke ill of her, in her hearing range at least, again.

I’m not advocating violence, I’m just relating a event that got my attention when I was a teen.

Let me say first that I am no expert in raising children, but I'm pretty proud of mine (23 and 24).



What difference does it make if you weren't backed up by the other parent. I really don't believe that is 1% of your problem. A lot of the problem is one that you have demonstated on this board OVER and OVER.

In raising kids, I personally believe that kids need and want hard fast rules. They also need a parent that "says what they mean, and means what they say." Your words have been proven to MEAN ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to your daughter. You are doing nothing but blowing hot air when you do open your mouth (to her).

I would like to recommend that you sit down and set some rules, establish them and consequences and STICK TO WHATEVER YOU SAY YOU ARE GOING TO DO!!!! Mine have not been absolute angels, but I believe they would both tell you what they could and could not get away with. We made it clear ALL THEIR LIVES.

I also believe my salvation was in that my kids never went anywhere without adult supervision until after they got their driver's license (16). When they got their license, it was not the driving that freaked me out, it was they were going places without an adult (parents).

Also, they were NEVER allowed to spend the night or go anywhere without the other kids parent contacting me or my husband to verify the plans. This spending the night rule held fast til they were about 20.

It is not too late to teach her that you "say what you mean, and mean what you say." I cannot believe that you have allowed the boyfriend to stay AFTER TELLING HER NO WAY. It doesn't really matter if they are sleeping together or not - you said he was not staying there period. Also the party the other night, there would have been no 30 minutes to clear out. ALL attendants would have been told to get out of my house the minute I walked in the door and if I caught them there ever again when I was not home, the law would be called on the spot.

It is your house and your job to establish rules and boundaries. If she continues not to follow them, there is a legal avenue called "emancipation." Iowa law Title 6, Subtitle 5, Chapter 232, Division 4. Tough but better than letting one violate every shread of morals and sanity you might have.

Before you say BUT BUT BUT - my 23 year old is ADD.

My stepson came to live with us when he was 16. He was in college and had come home for the weekend. His curfew was extended to 12:30, and I told him the door would be locked at that time. One night he decided he didn't want to come home at that time. What COULD I DO. I got up and locked the doors at that time. He came rolling home about 2:00, and my husband asked if I was going to open the door. Told him nope, I didn't get up and lock the doors so I could get up and unlock them when he got home. He had agreed to this in the beginning. My husband was not a happy camper, because his son had to leave early for a 5 hour drive back to college. Long story short, my husband and I did not have a good night nor did we sleep any after that time. But, my SS got to sleep in his car for the rest of the night, and I kindly unlocked the doors at 8:00 the next morning.

Did everybody in my house learn something (including my two boys)? I really believe they did because I never had a curfew problem with them or the stepson again. It was tough, and it took a couple of days for my husband and myself to get okay. But the lesson was well worth the temporary pain.

Since you say that nobody is offering you any steps in dealing with this, I am going to spell out my recommendations:

1. Set your rules and consequences and let her know what they are. Then say what you mean, and mean what you say.

2. Check into emancipation if she does not want the privilege of living in your house. If she wants to be on her own, LET HER. At least that way, you are not legally responsible for any damages or crimes she might commit. You do not have to put up with this BS until she is 18 unless you choose to. Tough but it just might save her life in the long run. I really believe it just might be the only way to turn her around.

LL,

I've never written to you before, and in fact, my plan was to never write here again... which is why I had my original account disabled (see sig line). But I lurk (bad, bad NBII)... and I can't help myself... I have to write to you.

As the parent of children with special needs and an advocate for parents of children with special needs, I feel compelled to speak to you about your daughter.

LL, two of my three children had severe problems in school, and in life. I won't go into the history... but I will say that their dad (my first H) was in deep denial about the circumstances surrounding their difficulties - and specifically about our son's special needs. The day we divorced he couldn't tell you the names of our son's disabilities (which are many - he wasn't breathing when he was born). He was almost no help at all when it came to getting help for our children. He didn't agree with quite a few things I did, but I did them anyway.

And LL, I filed complaints with the state's Department of Education and federally with The Office of Civil Rights. You know why? Because the school district is MANDATED to provide A FREE AND APPROPRIATE EDUCATION to EACH AND EVERY CHILD. Clearly, your daughter is not receiving what she needs.

I worked full-time, LL, so I know how hard it is to work around that. Honesty with your employer is important to the process. What benefits does your employer provide? Sick days? Vacation time? Personal days? Take them all off, and then some, and use the time to find help for your daughter.

Have you gone to your local legal library? They are remarkably helpful in finding the laws about education to support getting help for your child.

Independent study doesn't work for ADHD and/or OCD kids? Where did you hear that? It worked VERY WELL for my daughter, who left high school and walked home the second week of 9th grade and 'refused' to go back. I drove her, called the police to help me, called the school to help me... exhausted all avenues... and when my daughter simply would not go, the school was "behind me" in my efforts, becuase they saw I was willing to do anything to help her. Let me tell you that I drove her back and forth, and supported her through FOUR YEARS of independent study. Guess what? She not only graduated, but got a SCHOLORSHIP to the community college!

My son was different. He wanted to go to school but it wasn't safe or appropriate for him. It was so bad that he tried to hang himself on the slide at school when he was eight years old. I LISTENED to that cry for help! I went through years of fights with the district then, and believe me, they weren't happy. I studied everything I could find, spent hours at the legal library, talked to special education teachers, combed the internet and books about disabilities... and I FOUGHT THE DISTRICT with mommy-claws extended.

It was a huge fight, but in the end, the DISTRICT paid to have a teacher COME TO OUR HOUSE for his schooling, which was the only way they could comply with FREE AND APPROPRIATE education for him. And you know what happened? HE GRADUATED!

You seem to have just thrown up your hands in frustration. I get being frustrated. Both of these children attempted or threatened suicide. (My middle daughter, by the way, avoided all this mess -- funny how kids are so different)... both of these kids were (and are) GOOD KIDS. And despite some painful choices on my part when they were older (I left the marital home after my daughter's graduated high school, son was 16 and I left him with dad to finish the education I had fought so hard for him to get) the one thing my kids have never, ever said is that I didn't fight for them, love them, and discipline them.

PLEASE DO NOT GIVE UP ON YOUR DAUGHTER. If you do it now, you will reap the consequences for years to come. A fractured relationship with your daughter will haunt you forever.

As far as the relationship with R, which I can't believe I'm even going to address -- <shaking head> -- LET HIM GO. Get help for yourself and HEAL before you even think of dating again, please. For yourself, and for your daughter.

~Sheryl

Becontent - Very well put.... I am very fortunate that my girls are still on a straight and narrow path at 12/15 but - there dad has no part in raising them and probably never has... and probably never will... and they know what they can and cannot get away with...and what is right and what is wrong.. and there is no way - a man/boy whatever would be staying at my house - regardless.... And my daughter is on an IEP but school has always and always will be top priority in our house... not maybe the best grades but the effort and conduct are top priority....

If you want to know your past - look into your present conditions. If you want to know your future - look into your present actions.

Just make sure you keep them on that straight and narrow path. It really makes it easier in the long run. As far as curfews go, I really believe that one sleepness night saved me many, many sleepless nights. (I was a curfew breaker <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.)

I also believe the biggest single downfall in teen parenting is taking the kids places and dropping them off (movie, skating, sporting events, etc.) as preteens or early teens. For every troubled teen that I personally know, they were the ones that were dropped off at activities. I mean every single one I know.

Hun, lots of people have given you step-by-step ideas. The problem with that, is either you don't apply them, or they are bad ideas, because they come from non-experts. You're the parent, and you are the best one to find what works in your situation. But,.... but... there are plenty of tools and resources for you to find these answers on your own. Don't rely on others to define these steps for you. Church, the bible, parenting classes, and therapy. You've dabbled in each of these from time to time over the years, but have you really dug in your heels and committed to finding something that works for you? (Again... this would be taking responsibility for YOU, and YOUR kids.)