I was thinking of you lots lately.

I hope all is well. I always relate to your posts, as I have a stubborn husband too, who has withdrawn a bit again now - for months...we have had sex 2-3 in 4 months...he still has moments of affection, etc - but he seems to be content to lavish the attention just on the kids...and will switch to them even during our time together.

It triggers me so badly due to him being like this during his A...but I know he is not in one. he wont talk about things anymore - we tried over a month ago and it was a bad scene...resulting in me regressing - blaming myself again badly...he still feels that him leaving and wanting to spend the rest of his life with a "tart" as he put it - was still my fault due to the domino effect I started. I just struggle with that - as isn't it like me blaming him for his neglect or coldness towards me before my A? Then wouldn't HE be the start of the domino effect? But he is not, so how could him leaving me and having an A be my fault?

Blah

So i remind myself everyday that it's only been 1 year since dady (for my A)...Dec 17 was 1 year...and that like my friend said - it took 4 long years but was worth every bit of hurt, pain, etc - she is now 5.5 years post her d-day and they joke again about boyfriends, girlfriends - they treat eachother well and have so much love...but it wasn't until year 4 that it came back...stubborn man who wanted to heal on his own.

And I just keep praying for patience to get through the moments where I feel so alone, so low, so guilty that we are like this because of me, so hurt from the distance, and so sad that my children get all the love, even love that I deseprately want...

I know I can do it...but the days get long. I am proud of my new coping skills though...no desire to even talk to opposite sex members - I am still so careful to not even be in a room alone with them. My advice comes from close girl friends, my parents, my spiritual councellor and God...it makes a world of difference.

I think of you lots cause I think you relate alot to what I am talking about and I hope that things are okay for you - and that the holiday season was good to you.

(((FL))))

Hi Dorry,

Yes, I am around, but just a very little as I am not at work and we are more at the lake house than here. I am back in the office on Jan 3rd.

I'm glad I saw your post. I've been mostly just reading SC's thread. not having much to add, i still like to read as the advice is so good.

i've been having a harder and harder time posting here. the feelings of being an MB failure are running high lately. and if i am a failure, i have only myself to blame, for not being a buyer. i know i took that comment from pep very strongly and the fact that JL does not post to me anymore, also adds to the thought that i am just not getting any of this right. which is still not to say i am giving up. i am not.

i disagree with your husband, his actions are his to own. the fact that the marriage was in such a bad state you and he both own. the fact that he choose to act as he did, is soley his to own. keep telling yourself that.

christmas sermon was titled "I love you, anyway" and was about how people will hurt you but you should choose to love them anyway. it did not mention the word forgiveness at all, was just more about how to not let other influences change your behaviour. love anyway.

i really had hoped DH would start to wear his ring again at some point over the holiday season. does not look like that will happen. we have not talked about it, he knows how i feel about it, i promised not to mention it ever again so i am sticking to that.

overall the holiday time has been pleasant, not much couple time happening, but pleasant family time.

i don't know what else to say, i am holding back as i fear if i start really saying how i am feeling right now i won't be able to stop. i am feeling very down, but that does not mean i have to act down. and my feelings may be more tied to a cold that decided to get me 2 days ago.

i am currently booking tickets to Hawaii, DH has a job there this spring and the 3 of us are going to join him. i'm scared to death of going there. i have not told him this, i've dragged my feet a bit. but i'm just going to have to go on faith that it will not be the disaster i see it possible being.

i don't think i have been of much help to you today Dorry. but i thank you for the hi. i think of all of you a lot too.

You know that just feeling like I am not alone in my feelings is help enough...makes you feel not so alone - ya know?

And I have been lurking lots lately too - and not posting...sometimes it's because I get jealous of the BS's who are interested in the MB ways and in putting effort into recovery instead of just waiting for it to happen....

wanted to add - in our house it's still that I am the WS and he is the BS - and nothing else. His doesn't seem to come into play...I can't speak for his thoughts - but his words and actions say his didn't even exist...

I wanted to add that sounds wierd - but what I mean as we are past that newlywed recovery period, and H is in a funk again - moments of affection and he tells me - you know I really do love you - but right now the distant moments out weight the close moments. It's hard

He told me I shouldn;t rely on him to be happy - that I should find something that makes me happy - time with my family and friends is what makes me happy - always has - I am not a solitary person like he is - and they are far away since he moved me here 5 years ago - he is my only family here (besides kids) and he doesn't get that I need his affection, conversation and love to help me be happy...not relying on it - but it's what I need. Because he is solitary he thinks I am relying on HIM for happiness instead of hearing what I am telling him I need...

So I guess patience. I too am not giving up - and will not for a very ver very long time. i truly believe we will come out the better end in this. My stubborn man has to work this out for himself and it may take years, and all I can do is wait and be there for him, no matter how it makes me feel...

Hi gals,

I thought I felt my ears burning <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />. They say misery loves company, so I decided to chime in briefly (my six year old is itching for me to set-up the shrink art set she got for Christmas, so I gotta be quick here!). Sounds like all three of us are sort-of floundering around a bit right now.

Although my H has been so amazing, we seem to have hit this odd little plateau. It's like we've been in "full speed ahead, totally focused, crisis mode" for the last two months, and now we (or at least I) feel a bit lost.

The first set of issues we had to deal with seemed pretty straightforward -- my affair, his porn/gambling/drinking habits, my epiphany that I had never made our marriage my #1 priority until now, his realization that he had totally neglected me for years. check, check, check... okay now what?

Now, I have to begin the painful process of unraveling the effects of childhood sex abuse... then we have the less obvious issues that affected our R through the years to deal with... I'm still having a hard time completely opening up to H... wondering if I have intimacy PLUS abandonment issues... still thinking about OM too much... have had the words 'I love you' on the tip of my tounge lately only to choke on them before they can get out (and what's THAT all about???)... and feeling very overwhelmed and generally unable to focus on any one issue very long or make any real progress. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

I guess what I'm trying to say to you both is: You know my DH has been a tower of strength -- more loving and supportive and forgiving than any other BS I've ever heard of. And I'm still a mess, anyway. I think the two of you, with your wavering, not-always-so-supportive hubbies, are stronger than you give yourselves credit for. I think the fact that you are both still in the game, still fighting for what you want and believe in, speaks volumes about you. Give yourselves a little bit of credit, will ya!

Be good to yourselves!

--SC

hey SC, i was going to say hi on your thread but i guess i'll say hi here instead. i didn't mean to make your ears burn.

i'm not even entirely sure it is fair to call my H a not-always-so supportive H.

that is my biggest problem. i just don't know anything. we are not in this together and yet of course we are in this together. it just we are not working on our issues together. but then who says that is so manditory, afterall, we are still together, kids are happy. that is very very good. what's my problem.

well, #1. we hardly ever have couple time. #2, i can't seem to have any satisifing SF anymore without crying and that is getting very old and is extrememly uncomfortable. and i don't understand it.

FL,

You said something that I MUST address
I do read your posts. I sometimes don't have time to respond because your issues are so complex and it takes me considerable time to offer what I think might be useful. But, FL I do read, I have NOT given up on you, and you are NOT a failure.

I guess you don't realize how much I respect you and all that you have done. IT has been a long hard road, both you and your H have taken alot of blows during this trip. I have always admired you and your efforts and I still do and I feel this way because you are NOT a failure. You have faced some very very difficult issues.

I hope that you decide that this coming NEW YEAR will in fact be just that. Enjoy your life, continue to be open and honest with your H and I think as he heals you will see him gradually start to respond. I will remind you again that he put two hard years into trying to fix things and I am guessing it will take that level of effort from you.

So relax, rest up, and then enjoy your life FL. Don't worry about what I think about you because I hold you in high esteem and that is unlikely to change.

I must say given that Dorry and SC are here, that what is often overlook by FWW's here is that many of us posters really really respect you. I know it is hard for you to realize, but your presence on this site is essential and your strength in facing the issues of the affair and working to rebuild your marriages is an inspiration to so many.

I guess you just don't realize how special you are. But, I hope you realize it now.

Have a Happy New Year FL, and you too Dorry and SC.

God Bless,

JL

I can't begin to express how much I relate to this - i could have written it FL...The sex thing - we just don't seem to have - he has only wanted it on a few occassions and there was alcohol involved...he wont talk about it...

Thanks JL and happy new year to you too.

As much as I know my husband does love me, and wants this marriage, I wish I knew if my H felt like that about FWW's meaning me...respect, strength..

Hi JL,

ok, so obviously you do read... thanks. i don't have much time to post, and you have me chocked up, and my daughter is near by. but thanks.

i've asked H recently if he is glad we are still together and he has said yes, was he glad i had confessed everything and he said yes. then i told him how much it would help me if at times when he was feeling those sorts of feelings if he would tell me. he said he would. ok, so he has not yet but today i gently reminded him how much it would help me to hear some encouragement from him sometimes. he told me he was feeling postive about us right then and gave my had a squeeze (we were in the car driving).

anyway i'm rambling...

my issues are rather complex, i'm starting to think the current IC is not capable of helping with the rest. might be time for a change. MC is still not in the picture for us. i don't think H will ever change his mind on that one.

Happy New Year to you and your family JL.

Happy New Year to Dorry and SC too.

dorry, thanks again for the Hi, i'll post more to you next year. i bet we could be more helpful to each other.

and FF, if you are out there... cuz i'm guessing you might be reading this. Happy New Year to you too. talk to you soon. i'm thinking about you.

Have a good new years FL.

My H wont go to MC either... nor an IC. Feels they can't do anything to help so why waste the money...

Ah well.

Take care!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" /> ok, you caught me. I read everything you and Dorry post to. Happy New Year to you too. Dorry, I am so sorry things are in a funk for you.

Dorry,

As you probably know, I very often identify with Sprint. However, there are many times that I, as a woman, identify also with your feelings.

Sprint is very strong-willed, as am I. Some may call that same quality stubbornness, but the same quality in him that manifests itself as stubbornness can be quite useful when it manifests itself in a positive way. When channeled into positive efforts it becomes drive and passion. So try not to curse his stubborness too much, as it probably holds the key to many of the qualities you love so much about him, although I understand that it can be so frustrating at times - like trying to get through to a brick wall (as many people probably feel the same way about me). One MC we had told Patriot that if he'd wanted a Shetland pony, perhaps he shouldn't have married a Stallion. I think that MC was referring to the stubborness/passionate thing, depending on whether I was using my "powers" for good or for evil, so to speak. I think you married a proverbial Stallion, too.



Sprint's A was retaliatory. It was his reaction to yours so, in a sense, it is a domino effect, just as your's was a reaction (or domino effect) to his neglect or coldness towards you. Obviously, you know that whatever the reason, we are all still ultimately responsible for our own decisions. Nothing justifies an A, and nothing justifies treating your W in a cold manner.

There have been times that I have thought in a desperate moment, "I should just have an A myself". My motivator was a desire to be understood and have my feelings validated by Patriot. Logically, I know that my having an A would not accomplish that, so I haven't acted on it.

I don't know what Sprint's motivator was. Maybe, like me, it was a desire to feel understood. Maybe it was simple payback. Maybe it was even an attempt to understand your past choices. I do think it is extremely important for Sprint and for your M that he understand his "why", just as SH recommends any FWS, for that IS what Sprint is, whether he agrees or not. He made the choice not to honor his marital vows. It matters not that he was initially a BS.

Guilt is not productive, Dorry, though I know it is hard sometimes not to immerse yourself in it. But his choices ARE NOT YOUR RESPONSIBILITY. It was his decision to respond the way he did. Yes, you made destructive choices too, but you had already displayed your remorse (which is different from guilt) and were doing everything you could to learn and grow from your mistakes and be the best W you could. Sprint chose what he did out of his own pain, which doesn't make you responsible for his behavior.

I think perhaps Sprint is coming to realize that his decision did not really resolve the feelings he had that led to his choice, just as having an A did not resolve the hurt feelings you had that led to your choice because the way you sound now is very reminiscent to how things sounded to me before Sprint had his A.



Yes, you CAN do it, even though I know it's hard sometimes. You most certainly SHOULD be proud of the changes you have made and the growth you have sought. Hold tight to the coping skills you've learned and the resources you have.


I have said the EXACT SAME THING to Patriot. Though I can't speak for Sprint's reasoning, I can share mine with you and maybe it can give some insight. I said this to Patriot because I wanted him to have no expectations. Expectation felt like pressure and I said this out of fear of abandonment. If he was going to leave me because I wasn't happy, I wanted him to do it sooner, rather than later.



Yes, waiting, being patient, and being there for your H are all important. However, it is destructive to your M for your needs to go unmet for such a long period of time. When I begin to feel too distant from Patriot and I don't feel like meeting his needs I remind myself that, while I have every reason to feel the way I do, it is still my choice NOT to meet his EN's and if I make that choice, I had better be prepared for the consequences of my actions. The consequences are the damage it does to my M. I ask myself, "Do I want to be right, or do I want to be married"? When I make the decision not to be the best wife I can be to Patriot, I am not operating as a team and not operating in a manner that best serves my M. I am operating in a manner that best serves MYSELF, which actually does not best serve myself at all if what I have chosen it to Recover, maritally speaking.

I think Sprint may be struggling with that question, too - does he want to be right or does he want to be married? Sprint may feel his actions are completely justified, but whether he is or not is completely irrelevant and if what he truly wants is to Recover his marriage, his actions are not serving him well, nor are they serving his marriage well.

Be careful not to just swallow your feelings while you are being so patient, as you may very well wake up one day and find your love bank completely empty. Remind Sprint that, while you can find other sources of happiness, what you desire is for him to be your greatest source of happiness. From your words, it sounds as though your needs of SF, affection and admiration are sorely lacking.

Can I tell you of the deep admiration I hold for you? I greatly admire your commitment to your M. I admire your way of always mustering a sunny attitude and reaching out to touch others with that when they are down. You have come such a long way, Dorry, out of your own strength and maturity and you have grown so much, even when your obstacles have been enormous. That requires depth of character, Dorry, and you are just oozing with it.

Chin up, my friend. Don't shoulder so much of the burden that you forget to take care of yourself.

Much love and gratitude,

Froz

Dorry,
Let me just add to what Froz wrote. You could be the poster child for the concept of "paying it forward". I just read your post to Magpie and it reminded me of one of your first posts to me. And it made me wonder how many times you have reached out to others, patiently repeating yourself in the hope that it will help someone. You're a good egg chickie-poo. And I, for one, respect you a lot.

--SC

P.S. I didn't mean to disrespect your husband, or FL's, by saying they were less supportive. Just seems pretty obvious that you gals aren't being very well taken care of at the moment.

{{{{dorry & FL}}}}

You are wonderful ladies.

I pray 2006 will be happy for you and your families.

ps. it is not 'giving up' to enjoy that which you have which is enjoyable. You can still hope and strive towards a better end objective while recognising today as a partially pleasant footstep along the path. I have realised that Squid and I will be a lloooong term recovery, so we may as well just enjoy that which we can when it comes along as we work towards better.

Frozen what you wrote is awesome.

You are a very wise, caring & loving person.

Thank you for sharing your wisdom.

I am impacted greatly by your words.

Ktulu.

Ktulu,

I can't even tell you how much that made my day. Thank you so much for sharing that with me. It made me feel wonderful and was lovely of you to say.

Froz

i knew it!!! i'm thinking of you, i hope you are doing ok.

dorry, i'm back in town and will post more tommorow, just wanted to say Hi and Happy New Year.

same to all of you, a very happy new year to each of you.

OK ....
Sometimes I just flat run out of ideas ...

that is the truth

here is another truth about me

I cannot fake convincingly .... unless it is about something playful and/or fun

If I post some remark that I think/feel/surmise/guess/assume is true .... and it turns out I am WRONG .... I welcome correction

I also have MB (marriage building) needs ... and sometimes my needs take priority over helping other persons .... and I stop posting to some people because I cannot think of anything worth saying that I have not said before ....

I just posted to Cherished after a self-imposed time out responding to her ... and my post basically said "Get a divorce" ... spoken out of my personal opinion, nothing more. I cannot think of one single thread of goodness left in her abusive marriage ... that honestly is my only idea for her .... pretty slim pickings, doncha think?

I am full of unexpressed opinions .... where I hold my tongue ... thinking my opinion is either out of line, or unwelcome, or not very necessary .... and sometimes pretty unkind. <~~~ and this silence is progress for me !!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

I have not always been able to be silent ... something I hope to improve in 2006 .... the art of silence and quietude.

Knowing that I have the ability to hurt FL with my words encourages me to offer fewer and fewer opinions ... in fact, I think I will go delete my comment to Cherished right now.