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#1557365 01/08/06 03:21 PM
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Hi Stu,

Here is the Enneagram test that I like. It's from a book called The Essential Enneagram by Daniels and Price. Once you know your type, it gives you a bit of insight as to what others see in you on an everyday basis. It can really help in relationships.

Simply pick the paragraph that fits you best. If you need to pick two I can help you to decide between them.

Quote
A) “I approach things in an all-or-nothing way, especially issues that matter to me. I place a lot of value on being strong, honest, and dependable. What you see is what you get. I don't trust others until they have proven themselves to be reliable. I like people to be direct with me, and I know what someone is being devious, lying, or trying to manipulate me. I have a hard time tolerating weakness in people, unless I understand the reason for their weakness or I see that they're trying to do something about it. I also have hard time following orders or direction if I do not respect or agree with the person in authority. I am much better at taking charge myself. I find it difficult to display my feelings when I am angry. I am always ready to stick up for my friends or loved ones, especially if I think they are being treated unjustly. I may not win every battle with others, but they'll know I've been there.”


B) “I have high internal standards for correctness, and I expect myself to live up to those standards. It's easy for me to see what's wrong with the things as they are and to see how they could be improved. I may come across to some people as overly critical or demanding perfection, but it's hard for me to ignore or accept things that are not done the right way. I prided myself on the fact that if I'm responsible for doing something, you can be sure I'll do it right. I sometimes have feelings of resentment when people don't try to do things properly or when people act irresponsibly or unfairly, although I usually try not to show it to them openly. For me, it is usually work before pleasure, and I suppress my desires as necessary to get the work done.”

C) “I seem to be able to see all points of view pretty easily. I may even appear indecisive at times because I can see advantages and disadvantages on all sides. The ability to see all sides makes me good at helping people resolve their differences. This same ability can sometimes lead me to be more aware of other people's positions, agendas, and personal priorities than of my own. It is not unusual for me to become distracted and then to get off task on the important things I'm trying to do. When that happens, my attention is often diverted to unimportant trivial tasks. I have a hard time knowing what is really important to me, and I avoid conflict by going along with what others want. People tend to consider me to be easygoing, pleasing and agreeable. It takes a lot to get me to the point of showing my anger directly at someone. I like life to be comfortable, harmonious, and others to be accepting of me.”

D) “I am sensitive to other people's feelings. I can see what they need, even when I don't know them. Sometimes it's frustrating to be so aware of people's needs, especially their pain or unhappiness, because I'm not able to do as much for them as I'd like to. It's easy for me to give of myself. I sometimes wish I were better at saying no, because I end up putting more energy into caring for others than into taking care of myself. It hurts my feelings if people think I'm trying to manipulate them or control them when all I'm trying to do is understand and help them. I like to be seen as a warmhearted and good person, but when I'm not taken into account or appreciated I ca become very emotional or even demanding. Good relationships mean a great deal to me, and I'm willing to work hard to make them happen.”

E)” Being the best at what I do is a strong motivator for me, and I have received a lot of recognition over the years for my accomplishments. I get a lot done and am successful in almost everything I take on. I identify strongly with what I do, because to a large degree I think your value is based on what you accomplish and the recognition you get for it. I always have more to do than will fit into the time available, so I often set aside feelings and self-reflection in order to get things done. Because there's always something to do, I find it hard to just sit and do nothing. I get impatient with people who don't use my time well. Sometimes I would rather just take over a project someone is completing too slowly. I like to feel and appear "on top" of any situation. While I like to compete, I am also a good team player.”

F) “I would characterize myself as a quiet, analytical person who needs more time alone than most people do. I usually prefer to observe what is going on rather than be involved in the middle of it. I don't like people to place too many demands on me or to expect me to know and report what I am feeling. I'm able to get in touch with my feelings better when alone than with others, and I often enjoy experiences I've had more when reliving them than when actually going through them. I'm almost never bored when alone, because I have an active mental life. It is important for me to protect my time and energy and hence, to live a simple, uncomplicated life and be as self-sufficient as possible.”

G) “I have a vivid imagination, especially when it comes to what might be threatening to safety and security. I can usually spot what could be dangerous or hurtful and my experience as much fear as if it were really happening. I either always avoid danger or always challenge it head-on. My imagination also leads to my ingenuity and a good, if somewhat offbeat, sense of humor. I would like for life to be more certain, but in general I seem to doubt the people and things around me. I can usually see the shortcomings in the view someone is putting forward. I suppose that, as a consequence, some people may consider me to be very astute. I tend to be suspicious of authority and am not particularly comfortable being seen as the authority. Because I can see what is wrong with the generally held view of things, I tend to identify with underdog causes. Once I have committed myself to a person or cause, I am very loyal to it.”

H) “I am an optimistic person who enjoys coming up with new and interesting things to do. I have a very active mind that quickly moves back and forth between different ideas. I like to get a global picture of how all these ideas fit together, and I get excited when I can connect concepts that initially don't appear to be related. I like to work on things that interest me, and I have a lot of energy to devote to them. I have a hard time sticking with unrewarding and repetitive tasks. I like to be in on the beginning of a project, during the planning phase, when there may be many interesting options to consider. when I have exhausted my interest in something, it is difficult for me to stay with it, because I want to move on to the next thing that has captured my interest. If something gets me down, I prefer to shift my attention to more pleasant ideas. I believe people are entitled to an enjoyable life.”


I) “I am a sensitive person with intense feelings. I often feel misunderstood and lonely, because I feel different from everyone else. My behavior can appear like drama to others, and I have been criticized for being overly sensitive and overamplifying my feelings. What is really going on inside is my longing for both emotional connection and a deeply felt experience of relationship. I have difficulty fully appreciating present relationships because of my tendency to want what I can't have and to disdain what I do have. The search for emotional connection has been with me all of my life, and the absence of emotional connection has led to melancholy and depression. I sometimes wonder why other people seem to have more than I do--better relationships and happier lives. I have a refined sense of aesthetics, and I experience a rich world of emotions and meaning.”


There are nine types all told. A few of those are more likely than others to go into the medical field. It will be interesting to see where you fall.

Stillwed

P.S. That link you gave me in your post on LadySheep's thread was a very short post. I think you might have meant to give me another one. I did read your summary in your signature to get an idea of your situation. I'm so sorry!! I didn't get any particular vibe on your wife's type from it (well kinda...but I'll wait to see if that pans out).


Me-BS age 48 Enneagram type 1w2 H-FWS age 49 Enneagram type 4w3 Married 30 years 3 grown kids 5 grandkids! D-day 1: 11/86 1 affair D-day 2: 1/4/03 H revealed 8 more affairs
stillwed #1557366 01/09/06 12:08 AM
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Thanks for reading my posts and summary, I thought I'd direct you to the short one first for fear of overwhelming you with a long summary... Thank you for doing this for me.

After reading all of the paragraphs above, I believe I identify with "C" the most and somewhat identify with "H".


Me 33; W 32; kids 0; no known A date:1996; M:1998 sep 8/04;D filed 9/04 by W;not finalized MC 1/05-4/05 Sept 2005 n/c by W she moved 5 hrs away and wants me to "move on". D still pending Talk w/ Jen C 11/27-send Plan A emails my summary
stu #1557367 01/09/06 12:19 AM
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stu,

How are you doing? Any news?

I'm not sure I've posted to you before, but I've been following your story.


ncn BS - 27 (me) WW - 23 (living with OM since 9/16) OM - 32 (OMW - 33) no kids/pets in either marriage d-day - 9/12/05 EA/PA - 6/05-present Exposed to OMW 10/5/05, Exposed to ILs 10/18/05
no_cute_name #1557368 01/09/06 12:35 AM
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Hi NCN,
No news yet, last I heard from her was before the new years when she called me saying she didn't want my xmas gifts. After a short discussion, I said if her BIL gave it back to me I'll send it upto her friends house near where she is so she could pick it up. She then said "don't worry about it then" "she'll take care of it"
I've since sent her a "hello" email with a picture I took of porpoises. Haven't heard back from her. I don't think she even opened the file.
Still no final court order....
Thanks for asking


Me 33; W 32; kids 0; no known A date:1996; M:1998 sep 8/04;D filed 9/04 by W;not finalized MC 1/05-4/05 Sept 2005 n/c by W she moved 5 hrs away and wants me to "move on". D still pending Talk w/ Jen C 11/27-send Plan A emails my summary
stu #1557369 01/09/06 02:01 PM
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Hi Stu,

Gosh this board is busy! It's amazing. I had to find you on page 4! Over on the "In Recovery" forum pretty much everything I'm involved in stays on the first page.

Thanks for doing that test. You picked type Nine and type Seven. I was stumped a bit because those two types have fairly different energy from each other, but realized that they really can look alike. In the book, The Essential Enneagram, they show you the main difference between the types you've chosen. Here is that paragraph on the Seven and Nine for you to read:

Quote
Epicures (Sevens-H) and Mediators (Nines-C) can be considered look-alike types because both want life to be pleasant and upbeat. They want to be liked and to get along with others. They both avoid conflict. However, Epicures are more frenetic and fast paced, while Mediators are more even tempered and slower paced. Epicures definitely orient toward themselves, knowing and expressing their own wants, agendas and opinions. In contrast, Mediators orient toward others, forgetting or deferring their own wants, agendas, and opinions.


So, what do you think between these two? Are you an extremely high energy guy? Or are you more of a go-with-the-flow type? There is a breed of Seven that isn't quite as high energy. That is the Seven with the Six wing. My oldest son is that type. He is mainly concerned with being bored...lol!

However, he also has (I believe) undiagnosed CFS. I have it, my other son has fibromyalgia and my daughter has CFS. This other son is SO tired all of the time and this seems to be a genetic issue in our family or maybe a viral one! Who knows! Anyway, we are all doing battle with it in one form or another and it is sometimes very frustrating.

If it weren't for the CFS factor, this guy would be on the go all of the time. With it, he appears to be more laid back like his type Nine sister. He worries about being bored and he loves making plans for the future. He doesn't feel guilt deeply or easily, but he also has a decent moral compass so that hasn't been a huge issue. Some Sevens really struggle with doing the "right thing" instead of whatever they want to experience in the moment. They want to experience everything life has to offer...taste every taste! They are like the eternal child in many ways.

Nines are more likely to just blend in. They don't rock the boat unless they are emotionally very healthy. They merge with their partner, which the partner likes initially, but then eventually finds boring quite often. The partner may eventually see them as spineless if they go into the lower health levels of their type.

Here is a link to read about the types. Let me know what you think!

http://www.9points.com/types.htm

Still


Me-BS age 48 Enneagram type 1w2 H-FWS age 49 Enneagram type 4w3 Married 30 years 3 grown kids 5 grandkids! D-day 1: 11/86 1 affair D-day 2: 1/4/03 H revealed 8 more affairs
stillwed #1557370 01/09/06 04:18 PM
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Hey Stu....

I wrote to you on one of your threads but then I realized since I pulled it out from some time back and noone had replied to you that you might not even notice it!

Sounds like you are dealing with a tough situation. I understand that you have not spoken with W in days. I tell you, if I wanted to I could call H up right now I could and chances are he would talk to me. But what is the point of me chasing after him all the time? I happen to know that my phone and answering machine are working just fine! So, let him call if he wants to chat. It took me some time to get to this point, but I am finally here and I say, darnit, I am worth a phone call and if not, so be it.

Believe me it is hard and devestating sometimes, but those days have come to be less and less and that is the key. I am looking to move on. I know that I did not give up on this M. He did. I know that I have committed no sin if we divorce! I did not want it.

Take care of yourself stu!

Daisy

Last edited by white_daisy; 01/09/06 04:20 PM.

Me: 30 WH: 29 WH: left May 8th, 2005 Now: no contact with WH since 07/02/2006 Ark on Plan A plan a tips and musings...get grounded here betrayed spouses...............JUST BE STILL...........
white_daisy #1557371 01/09/06 07:33 PM
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SW,
I would say I'm definitely more of a Nine, more laid back, accepting of all sides. Many times going along with other's ideas without really considering or being in touch with what I really want. I also tend to avoid conflict and disharmony.
I only identify with Seven OCCASIONALLY because, I have a good imagination on the inventive side , looking into the future and eg. when not doing anything on a Sunday afternoon, will call up friends to do something... instead of just sitting around and relaxing. But I don't usually jump from one interest to another as if I'm ADHD. Yet I will occ go to another interest when I feel that I can't master one interest.
What does all this really say about me?

Have you been offered any of the stimulants eg adderall or strattera for the CFS? I've heard some successes with those meds.

Hi Daisy,
good to have you back...How was your trip?
I have been just doing this 180 thing with Plan A emails with my W. I keep wondering what she is thinking when she says she wants to finish it but I haven't received anything from her atty or the court.


Me 33; W 32; kids 0; no known A date:1996; M:1998 sep 8/04;D filed 9/04 by W;not finalized MC 1/05-4/05 Sept 2005 n/c by W she moved 5 hrs away and wants me to "move on". D still pending Talk w/ Jen C 11/27-send Plan A emails my summary
stu #1557372 01/10/06 12:14 PM
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Hi Stu,

Sorry it took me so long to get to this. H's birthday was yesterday and so I was busy!

You asked what I've tried for the CFS/FMS. I've tried mostly low dose antidepressants for sleep. My official dx right now is fibromyalgia and I'd say that's pretty accurate. As long as I make a big effort to get a minimum of 8 hours of sleep a night I can generally keep on top of all of it. That and my supplements! I take a ton. I don't take any antidepressants presently. I take SAM-e, a supplement, instead.

I have had a terrible time lately with IBS. However, my H's father died in Dec. and we had to deal with a lot of things that were very stressful. We had put him a nursing home a few months before he passed and it was very near where the most recent OW lives. I think I just got really stressed out and now I've got to break the cycle.

The only strange thing is that it seems to be directly related to my menstrual cycle. It was so bad 7 weeks ago (the day I started my period) that I ended up in the ER because I couldn't stop the pain and I was only equipped with the weakest meds for it. They gave me a stronger smooth muscle relaxer and shot me up with narcotics while they ruled out something more serious. My CT scan was completely normal for a 47 year old woman. I was embarrassed to be there and was terrified of being seen as drug seeking, but I was truly desperate. It was horrible in that sense, but they did treat me with every kindness and respect. And the instant pain relief was a godsend! They used Fentinol first and that only lasted about 5 minutes...that's how bad it was. Then they added Dilaudin (sp?).

Since then I've had many attacks...sometimes as many as 4 or 5 a week. They wake me up in the middle of the night mostly with stabbing pain in my back near either kidney. They also start randomly when I'm awake. They come on very suddenly. Apparently the spasming colon is irritating nearby muscles and because of the fibromyalgia my body interprets that as extremely painful. My doc has even tried a course of antibiotics for a bacterial overgrowth and it did help, but then my menstrual cycle rolled around again and I was back to square one. (Much more prepared though with the new meds so I avoided the ER thankfully!)

So...we'll see what this month brings. I had one this morning (I'm about 9 days from the day I'm supposed to start) but it was mild. (The milder ones start the week before my period and then the worst ones when I start and for a few days after.) I've been stressed this week because my H has not been feeling well for a couple of weeks and no matter how much you love each other that takes a toll! I do use a progesterone cream (I have all of my "parts") for perimenopause symptoms and I have regular periods.

The biggest change I've made that I think has affected this is that I quit taking nortriptyline about 10 months ago. The problems started a few months later. I was only taking 35 mg. a day, but my heart rate was over 100 bmp most of the time from it. I hated it. I did it for 5 years and then finally got off of it. I think it really contolled the IBS symptoms far more than I realized.

Okay...enough about that! Tell me about the other treatments you are aware of for CFS and Fibro. I believe mine started as CFS. It was definitely related to a viral infection I couldn't beat...upper respiratory. I got it while volunteering at a school. So many of us were sick that they closed the school for 3 days so the staff could recover! The worst of the symptoms were over within the first 3 years and then I gradually developed Fibro. Hope I didn't share too much history. I always feel it's kind of hard to put together a puzzle without all of the pieces though!

I've decided to end this here and start another post for the type Nine discussion!

Still


Me-BS age 48 Enneagram type 1w2 H-FWS age 49 Enneagram type 4w3 Married 30 years 3 grown kids 5 grandkids! D-day 1: 11/86 1 affair D-day 2: 1/4/03 H revealed 8 more affairs
stillwed #1557373 01/10/06 12:50 PM
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Stu,
You know that is the one thing about these spouses of ours that bothers me the most! They leave, want their space, say it is over, but DO VERY LITTLE OR NOTHING to get the paperwork done. What are they thinking? who knows.

My H has yet to mention the word DIVORCE. He will say we don't work, that we are friends, use the word 'demise' when talking about the end of our R, but where is the word DIVORCE? Sometimes I think that they just don't want to be the bad guys to end it all, because the divorce is the final final final chapter to this drama.

Please don't live in fear Stu. I know easier said then done. But hang in there Stu! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I really wish you all the best with the Plan A + 180 plan. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Daisy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />


Me: 30 WH: 29 WH: left May 8th, 2005 Now: no contact with WH since 07/02/2006 Ark on Plan A plan a tips and musings...get grounded here betrayed spouses...............JUST BE STILL...........
stu #1557374 01/10/06 01:26 PM
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Hey there! About the Enneagram type Nine...the biggest gripe that partners have about the Nine is that they are too nice. My daughter is a Nine and it's been a joke in our family that she's just boring. She's anything but boring in reality, but when she was in Jr. High school my H was into personality tests and some test she took told her she was boring...lol! It stuck and she gets teased about it all of the time. Poor kid. I don't think it did any permanent damage...she's now 26 and a beautiful mother of two. However, the Nine has a trap door called being very passive aggressive. They are very unaware of their anger and because of this it surprises even them sometimes when it comes out!

The Nine loves by giving in to their significant other. They merge and disappear. They idolize the other to a certain extent. Some types love this, especially if they are all about control, but when you get two types together that are both withdrawn types, it can lead to problems. The Nine is perceived as not having needs and although that sounds like it wouldn't rock the boat...it does. The other person may get sick of the Nine's lack of passion for getting their needs met. A Nine hardly ever even has a preference for where to eat.

My H is a withdrawn type and I actually was very angry at a part of him for letting me walk all over him early in our marriage. I'd criticize him and judge him and he'd just let me. I felt like a monster (my own lack of self-control and a tendency to judge myself harshly) and although it was my job to control myself, I resented that he let me be that way too. It's kind of like spoiled rotten kids turning on their parents if that makes sense.

I'd like to give you a couple of links to check out. Once you know your type, if you are willing to put in some time reading, you can learn a lot about yourself. We might be able to figure out your wife's type too. My favorite book on the subject is The Wisdom of the Enneagram by Riso and Hudson. They also have a website at www.enneagraminstitute.com . That is an excellent place to start. Read not only about your type, but how the system works.

Other links of interest:

http://www.9points.com/faq.htm

http://www.thechangeworks.com/ennprimer/enn9styls2.html#P

http://www.sa-inc.net/ec/ec-type9.html

http://www.enneagramcentral.com/flat_1.htm

http://www.enneagramcentral.com/pharm_9.htm


Let me know what you think! Take care!

Stillwed

Last edited by stillwed; 01/10/06 01:29 PM.

Me-BS age 48 Enneagram type 1w2 H-FWS age 49 Enneagram type 4w3 Married 30 years 3 grown kids 5 grandkids! D-day 1: 11/86 1 affair D-day 2: 1/4/03 H revealed 8 more affairs
stillwed #1557375 01/10/06 05:56 PM
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They are very unaware of their anger and because of this it surprises even them sometimes when it comes out!
The Nine loves by giving in to their significant other. They merge and disappear. They idolize the other to a certain extent.... The Nine is perceived as not having needs and although that sounds like it wouldn't rock the boat...it does. The other person may get sick of the Nine's lack of passion for getting their needs met. A Nine hardly ever even has a preference for where to eat.


SW,
this section describes me so well, I'll look into the links you included, and get back to you.

Your severe sx with your periods make me wonder if you have endometriosis on top of the IBS; triggering the IBS. Have you talked to your Gyn about that?
Anyways I have seen gastroenterologists use Levsin for IBS symptoms and it seem to work quite well. But if your symptoms seem to be so severe with your periods then I would consider using some kind of Hormone replacement to suppress the periods.

WD:
You know that is the one thing about these spouses of ours that bothers me the most! They leave, want their space, say it is over, but DO VERY LITTLE OR NOTHING to get the paperwork done. What are they thinking? who knows.

Yeah, that bothers me the most I think...I can't get a good idea of what goes through her mind. If they REALLY believe it's over then what are they holding out for???


Me 33; W 32; kids 0; no known A date:1996; M:1998 sep 8/04;D filed 9/04 by W;not finalized MC 1/05-4/05 Sept 2005 n/c by W she moved 5 hrs away and wants me to "move on". D still pending Talk w/ Jen C 11/27-send Plan A emails my summary
stu #1557376 01/10/06 07:34 PM
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Quote
Your severe sx with your periods make me wonder if you have endometriosis on top of the IBS; triggering the IBS. Have you talked to your Gyn about that?
Anyways I have seen gastroenterologists use Levsin for IBS symptoms and it seem to work quite well. But if your symptoms seem to be so severe with your periods then I would consider using some kind of Hormone replacement to suppress the periods.


I hadn't thought of suppressing the periods...duh! LOL! I do use Levsin and it works very well. When I was on the nortriptyline it was like taking double the Levsin side effect wise so I only took Bentyl. I got all of the bad side effects from the anticholingeric effects of the Levsin. I felt like I couldn't even move off of the couch...like I was in a stupor. At the time I was also taking a lot of muscle relaxers and that type of thing. Now that I'm taking almost nothing and the Levsin works fine with fatigue and an occasional headache as the only side effect...okay also a VERY dry mouth. I usually add in 5 mg. (baby dose, but it works) of Valium if the Levsin doesn't work fairly quickly (within an hour) and if I have to take the Levsin quite often and I'm still in pain I add in a Darvocet or Vicodin. I don't like going to for the narcotics, but they stop this pain the best and as long as I only take them a couple of times a week I can stay off of most other pain meds that I'd otherwise have to take daily (Ultram for example...didn't work and made me feel loaded). They work, they break the cycle and I believe that in the long run they are a lot easier for my body to process. I have no issues with overusing them so that is good. I usually have doctors that tell me to use the meds I have MORE...lol!

I finally found a doc within Kaiser's framework that is willing to work with me. He took a course in natural medicine at Harvard or some good place like that so he at least has a clue about alternative meds. We are going to make a good team I think, but this new IBS stuff is fairly recent history for me...the severity at least. I definitely have a long history of mild IBS.

I hadn't thought about the possibility of endometriosis. Can a woman develop that at any time in her life? I have no obvious fibroids, normal ovaries with a number of smallish cysts, and I've only ever been on the pill for a couple of months to straighten out my cycle once. I hated it then, but I know they've changed formulas over the years. I'm going to try to go through menopause with only natural hormone replacement. Okay, I admit it, I'm kind of a granola girl!

I saw an old acquaintance today that I hadn't seen for years and she said I was reverse aging....lol! I swear it's the natural progesterone cream! I look younger now than I did 5 years ago! Somebody wanted to know if the picture on my H's desk was his daughter and it was me...lol! I'm enjoying it while it lasts!

Thanks for your help. I will certainly keep these ideas in mind. The endometriosis hadn't occurred to me and neither had the hormone therapy. Thanks!!

Still


Me-BS age 48 Enneagram type 1w2 H-FWS age 49 Enneagram type 4w3 Married 30 years 3 grown kids 5 grandkids! D-day 1: 11/86 1 affair D-day 2: 1/4/03 H revealed 8 more affairs
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No problem SW...
I'm glad to hear that your regimen has worked well for you. When mainstream medicine can't solve the problems, the only way is the alternative medicine, I always say.
Endometriosis usually starts when you're young but I've heard of people who develop the sx after a surgery for example or a miscarriage. Perhaps your ovarian cysts could be the trigger for the intense IBS pains. Either way, they seem to be regulated by your periods so I definitely would consider suppressing the periods. You know, women don't need to have a period. Some cultures feel that if you don't have a period that somehow you're holding in some bad blood or toxins, but there is no biologic/physiologic to have a period.


Me 33; W 32; kids 0; no known A date:1996; M:1998 sep 8/04;D filed 9/04 by W;not finalized MC 1/05-4/05 Sept 2005 n/c by W she moved 5 hrs away and wants me to "move on". D still pending Talk w/ Jen C 11/27-send Plan A emails my summary

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