Hi ladies,

Great idea for support thread Dorry.

Hi! I don't post very often. I don't have access to a computer during the day right now, but I check in every once in a while. Just wanted to say, "Hi, and hang in there everyone!"

God bless,
Rose

Hey Mrs. W,

I was thinking about you a lot last night. I was afraid perhaps we did not do right by you. i feared all we did was make you feel like you needed to shut up. you were being honest and that is always a good thing and it is very welcomed here. you post about whatever you need to post about. ok? i do agree talking about OM can be a tight line to walk to ensure we are not doing a dis-service to our marriages or ourselves. but shutting someone down is an even bigger dis-service.

then i saw Mr. W's post....

suddenly i'm not so worried about you anymore <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

but still, for the record, please do post about anything that you feel you need to talk about.

HI ROSE!!!

SC - I can't wait till i see JL's answer to your question, of course you have to answer his question about how you define pasionately first, so go do that!!

i may not post much today. i need to focus on work.

ok, since we are being brutally honest, i'm feeling kinda in a funk, i'm not even sure what i mean by it.

i'm thinking maybe i just need a break from this.

i'm sad my H still hurts so much. he does not ask me any questions, he does not call me names or anything like that. i have no complaints about him.

i just know (actually i don't know cuz we really don't talk about it at all), so i'll change that from know to suspect he still hurts.

why do i suspect that you wonder?

1) SF is not as it should be and
2) he does not want to wear his wedding ring.

that is a short list, isn't it? and yet to me, it feels huge.

maybe this is just it. he is certainly not distant or disconnected from the marriage as he was for so much of the marriage. so that is better, much better.

so why do i feel so sh*ty?

FL... can I say... wow ??? Let me explain.

FOM and I started first as "friends," meeting through a mutual friend. A subsequent exchange of e-mails among this larger group of friends let to a dialogue between the two of us, which led to, well, you get the picture. I was M'ed (still am thank heavens); he had been living with his GF for a while.

I remember when we first crossed the line, he said two things: First, something to the effect of "No matter where this goes, I don't want anything to happen to this friendship." Second, that his current relationship wasn't satisfying because it lacked "passion."

If I only knew then what I know now!!! A true friend would have never crossed that line. He was divorced, and had on one occasion been unfaithful to his first W. HE KNEW how awful this was going to be for me, yet he did nothing to try and stop it. Ya know why? Because he was/probably still is a selfish bastid. Of course, so was I.

Of course I'm older and wiser now. I know we can't be friends. And I know that the giddy, romantic, love-laced, early-in-the-relationship "passion" that he must always have is something you can't sustain in a long-term relationship. He'll dump a GF after a couple of years and look for a new one that will reignite his "passions."

Thing is, when he talked about his need for passion, my gut reaction was "passion is overrated." I can't for the life of me understand why I didn't listen to my gut. I was weak, I guess, and selfish, and stupid. Call me boring, but give me a deep, meaningful, lasting relationship over the roller coaster ride of passion any day.

Anyway, FL, thanks for the primer on true friendship. I wish my FOM could have acted with the integrity that yours did. Not that I didn't have a role in this -- I encouraged it, and once the line was crossed, made the incredibly poor choice to let it continue -- but my FOM had the wisdom of experience, and let it happen anyway.

{{{FL}}}

Sorry you're in a funk, FL... I get that way too sometimes.

It's okay for me to post here right?? I'm an FWW about 15 months into recovery and am trying to catch up on what's been in this thread. I usually post in In recovery but saw this here.

Like I said above, but your post on true friendship was really helpful to me. Made me realize how FOM was truly a poor choice. My H is also my best friend, I remember telling him that on D-Day.

Then I noticed you were the one suggesting that dorry and sprint go do something FUN. I can't tell you how helpful that has been for H and me, mainly because doing fun things was what brought us together in the first place. One year ago, we were going nuts scheduling fun things to do together and it really helped to get over that initial hump. We've backed off a bit on that now, though, holiday spending caught up with us a tad! But I think we'll ramp that up again soon. It is ski season, after all <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

But maybe you can get out of your funk by taking your own advice and doing something FUN??? I've always found the RC inventory awesome for this if I get stuck for ideas.

Chin up, FL, this too shall pass.

Thanks, dorry for starting this thread.

{{FL}}, time is all I can say. Our deception went on for quite a while so it makes sense that our S's would have to have time to catch up correct? I think you are really do a lot of things right and he just needs to heal in his own time.

GBH, of course you are welcome here! Goodness, my A was over about 9 years ago. Of course my DD was just 14 months ago.

Aww FL - I know so how you feel...I don't think H is distant...but like yours he doesn't ask...or he doesn't tell me what's wrong...that's the distance I feel and I can sense during those silent times that he is obviously hurting and it kills me. I truly think I wont be able to heal properly until he is fully healed......and like I wrote in my other post - maybe it's not him - maybe's its me?

it's why I was taking a bit of a break too and wondering if i should - I thought maybe I coming here was making me read too much into my H and hurt more...but I am not sure that's it...I dont know

(((((FL))))))

Thats totally okay. I am a FWW who is now 13 months into recovery...(well 13 from my A and NC, D-day...7 months from my H's A as a BS)

And I know FL is 18 months or so past d-day....so you are definately more than welcome

FL...

I just adore you!!! How sweet of you to be thinking of me...MBs is such a unique community!!!

I will always post honestly here...I feel very "safe" doing that...It's truly how I learn...

In fact, in posting about the OM the other day, I began to understand why I was even thinking about it in the first place...One of my top EN's is Admiration...read: general ego stroking <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" /> Anyway, I just realized that Mr. W had kinda fallen away from that one...not intentionally, it just doesn't come naturally to him, and I had forgotten to mention it...actually, I hadn't exactly realized what I was "missing"...so, this a.m., it came to me, and then I reminded him...without this board as my outlet, and, of course, all of you giving your valuable insight, I might have continued a lot longer without that need being met and let myself and our marriage be vunerable...

Also, FL, thanks for your kind words regarding Mr. W...He really does just "rock", I am so lucky! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I can't praise this place and what it's given us enough! Thank you all again...




{{{FL}}}...

Sorry about the funk...

Your above #1, I'm not too sure about, we don't have that problem right now...Mr. W usually says that all women have to do is create a little lust for men to come around in that dept...new lingerie maybe???

About #2...do you think he might like a new wedding band from you...a renewal of sorts? I bought Mr. Wondering a great one from Tiffany & Co. for Christmas, it's black Titanium...really stylish and sexy, and it was only around $300-A new beginning for us...Mr. W NEVER wore a wedding ring prior to D day...I love it so much that he does now...I think it's soooo...sexy, and I let him know that...Feel better FL!!!

GIANT HUGS TO ALL OF YOU LADIES!!!

Mrs. W

((((FL))))
Sorry you are feeling down. I hope you feel better.

MrWondering
Thanks for an excellent post. I totally agree with what you said. I think recovery and forgiveness is a choice. I feel like my husband has not made a choice yet about what he really wants out of this relationship. I've asked him point-blank, why he's still with me and I always get the answer "I don't know." He doesn't seem to want to deal wtih any issues. He seems content to just sit and wallow in his anger.

I get that vibe from my husband...especially the part about challenging me to stick it out.

The problem is that I'm just not sure what to do any more. I really thought we were starting to recover. There were some times recently when things were really good between us and it just felt right, like things were finally getting back on track again. But his anger from the past couple of days makes me feel like we're back at square one.

I feel like my only options right now are:

1. Divorce
2. Separation
3. Counseling

1. Divorce just is not an option for me right now, because some part of me still feels like there is hope. I thought about being divorced and that would mean I'd be all by myself, alone. Last night my sister-in-law, her husband and a couple of friends came over. I realized that if were divorced, I'd never get to see these people again. There are other friends we have that I'd never see. And I would miss out on the lives of my nieces and nephews. I would be all alone and to me that is worse than what I'm going through now.

2. I'm not sure what separation would accompish. I'm scared that it would only make my H feel free and realize that he likes things better without me. Although, I truly want my H to be happy. The thought has come to mind that maybe he would be happy without me. The thought crushes me, but maybe that's the only option now. I want to have hope that there is a future for us, but sometimes I'm not so sure.

3. Counseling is the next thing I'm seriously considering. There are times when I thought that even IC would be useless, b/c my H wouldn't be there, but maybe it would be a chance that he would attend.

I hope everyone has a wonderful weekend! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

P.S. Mr Wondering - much love for the U2 quote in your sig. I love that song, and that is one of my favorite lyrics of all time.

HI all, I got off work early, yay!

BTW - 3 1/2 years past d-day!

HI FL!

Sorry you are feeling blue today. A few days ago, I was posting to you about my H being blue, distant, etc., and then I got an idea from another thread on another forum here at MB (another reason I don't post a lot - I get very confused about what I read or wrote where! Even writing it down on a notepad for future reference doesn't help). Some BS's were saying they needed comfort from their WS's when they were having doubts, triggers, etc., even though d-day might have been a long time ago (instead of their WS's getting defensive, angry, hurt...).

I realized that what I was doing was withdrawing from my H and feeling sorry for myself when he was feeling bad, which was very likely preventing him from opening up to me and talking more (seems very simple, don't know why I didn't realize it before). I don't think I meant to, but I was turning his problem with triggers into something to get attention for ME.

So, I made a point to concentrate on his feelings, and began to be cheerier and more affectionate (saying ILY, rubbing his shoulder while he was driving, etc - although, I will defend myself a second and say that I had been a little afraid to do this in case he rejected the efforts). He cheered up, thanked me for the affection, wrote me an e-mail saying he appreciated my attention even when he didn't respond, and suddenly he's ALL OVER ME, if you know what I mean! Now, how do I get a good night's sleep?! LOL.

Rose

Hi GBH -

You wrote: "I can't for the life of me understand why I didn't listen to my gut." That is something that still haunts me about a lot of the bad choices I made. When I go through times of regret, it's something that bothers me the most. I KNEW BETTER. I had avoided temptation before, why was I different that time?

A couple times, I've wanted to ask God, "Why didn't you badger me more, shake me up, STOP me," and then I remembered all the red flags and the moments my gut DID tell me STOP, STOP, STOP, but I ignored every warning, and declined the ways out of the situation.

I know it's something that bothers my H still, too - HOW could I go through with what I did? I think it's hard for him to believe that I was/am just as shocked by what I did as he was/is.

Over the years on this board, I've seen BS's
write that they don't believe their WS's when the WS's answer "I don't know" to any questions. The frustrating part in answering some questions (such as "HOW could you do that?!") is that I really don't know, unless to say, as you did above, that I was selfish (and many other bad words I won't call myself again, LOL). It's hard sometimes to figure how I let myself get to the place where I could be that selfish, etc., though.


God bless,
Rose

Hi Ladies,

I just wanted to say thanks for sharing and keep it coming! I don't usually post much about my own situation, but I do lurk and I am continually amazed by the similarity between the issues other FWS and BS face and my own.

It helps me a lot in ferreting out my struggles and gives me hope to come here and read about your situations and see healthy people trying to over-come the fallout of an extremely unhealthy situation....

Thanks for sharing. I wish you all the best in this growing process.

just saying hi

Rose,

You wrote: "The frustrating part in answering some questions (such as "HOW could you do that?!") is that I really don't know, unless to say, as you did above, that I was selfish ...."

As a FWH, I've heard this question a lot. Sometimes, I truly didn't know. Other times "I don't know" really meant "I don't really want to tell you." So W never believed me when I said that, even when it was true. (Oh to have met up w/ Plank's honesty 2x4 a long time ago ..)

To be balanced, sometimes W really didn't want to know. Since I'm the type that super-analyzes things, eventually it was like I could see how everything in my past and our M was somehow connected to my A. W never wanted to hear any of that. I she wanted was "I was selfish", "I had no moral backbone", "I had pused God out of my life", and the like ..

ps: I remember all the red flags too, though at the time they seemed more like a bright shade of green.

Hi to everyone...

justanotherwh, I can relate to what you are saying above regarding the WHYS?...I regularly talk out my feelings with Mr. W about that...if you haven't already, you might want to read his post above on this thread, and share with your W...It has been very healing, I think for both my H and I to have these discussions...he listens without judgement, and I have come to some of my most enlightening self realizations because of this. It has also inspired further awe in me towards my H and shown me even more clearly what I almost threw away...it has really bolstered our relationship, as strange as that may seem...

I still struggle with the internal question of IF my EN's AND my H's EN's would have been being met at the time, would I have ever gotten to that jumping off point in the first place(I do get that the decision to JUMP was my own)? In other words, would I have even allowed myself to be tempted...would I have seen the danger in talking constantly(I can say, I wouldn't have had the time to do this part) to and then seeing an old boyfriend? Would I have still been flattered by the interest that he showed in me? Would the fog still have taken over or does a healthy marital relationship act as a fog inhibitor? I waiver back and forth on the answer to that...

Mrs. W

Hi Mrs. W,

I usually post over on Recovery, so I haven't been following this thread. I'll take your suggestion and go back and read it.

Regarding your internal question: I picture the attraction between people like the gravitational pull between stars/planets. It's a function of 2 things: mass (fulfillment of ENs) and distance. If you are in close orbit w/ another body and you have been meeting each other's ENs, the mass and resultant gravitational attraction is strong. There may be other 'planets/moons' in the system which will have some attraction, but the effect will be slight compared to the strong binary system.

However, if the mass of the system diminishes when ENs aren't met, and the distance between the bodies increases, there's an increased likelyhood that another body entering the system meeting ENs will disturb the system at a minimum, sometimes pulling it apart.

If you're in a strong 'gravitational bond' w/ S, there is little risk of another person pulling you away. You could 'talk away' w/o feeling the attraction to the OP. HOWEVER, the same may not be same for OP, who could easily become strongly attached to you, even if you're not interested.

Sooo, safest thing is to have clear boundaries avoid situations where OP could come too close or meet too many ENs. Easy when ENs are met, hard when they're not.

JAWH

JAWH...

EXCELLENT POST!!! That truly provided a great, almost visual analogy for me...

Mr. W and I read it together, and he agrees, GOOD STUFF...Thanks for that...

Mrs. W

I disagree with



there is a very strong bond in emotionally fused marriages ... which are ripe for affairs (Schnarch explains this most precisely in his book Passionate Marriage)

also

good marriages can also be vulnerable to affairs

I think the Giver & Taker concepts are good ones ... I bumped up a previous discussion thread (Willard F Harley is a smart man) ... where Harley's concepts are pulled out of one of his books .... for examination

Pepperband, I'm not familiar w/ Schnarch's books. It sounds like 'emotionally fused Ms' is a negative term if they are indeed 'ripe' for As.

I said "little risk", not "no risk". I focussed on the 'mass' part of the analogy, but 'distance' can be a huge factor also. I also have to admit that when I said "pulling away" I was thinking of an A so intense where WS wanted to leave S to be w/ OP. (Like mine). I know it's sometimes detrimental to generalize, but I was merely trying to get the general idea across.

BTW, I think Harley's concepts are terrific. I'll check out the other threads you mentioned.

JAWH