Good to hear from you again LA! I think I'm doing good, choosing to be in this marriage, while keeping myself and my children safe. I feel as if I'm coming from such a more powerful place than a year ago, where I was basically at his mercy. Now I want to offer him love and forgiveness, no longer desperate to hang on out of fear and neediness. I will not accept bad treatment by him now, because I know I can make it on my own and he knows this. He also knows I'm here because I do still love him and not because I have no choice but to stay. My love grows day by day, witht each new kindness that we both show to each other.

I think I'm doing good in general, not just in our marriage. I'm starting college in a couple weeks to become a nurse and couldn't be more excited. I still have my own apartment but have only went back to stay there once after the only fight we've had in the month since I've been staying with him. I hope that maybe we can make it through the next disagreement without my having that kneejerk reaction of retreating to my apartment. My lease will be up in 4 months so I have a little time to work on this. The fear is still there but is lessoning with each new hurdle we navaigate our way over.

As far as bailing him out, it's not for sure that he will have jail time. So when he makes 3-400 per day, it made sense to spend the 800 to get him out so he can get back to work. I see where you're coming from though and think that 6 months in jail wouldn't hurt to much. Whatever happens, it will be consequences for his actions, and I think he is finally growing up enough to realize that every action has exactly that, consequences.

well, here I am again, down, hurting and lost. Nothing huge has happened.. just the past hurts intruding upon the present contentment. Yesterday i saw a show on tv about a woman who had placental abruption, just like I did. The docs were able to save the baby but the mother died. It was such a graphic reminder of what I went through and how happy I am that both our baby and I came through ok. But what got to me and what has since plunged me into this deep pit of despair, is watching the husband's reaction on the show. He was devastated. When I was still in the hospital, still hemoraghing, still needing blood transfusions, my husband was on the phone with his girlfriend, planning a date for that weekend. And this was in spite of telling me for 2 weeks prior that he wanted to stay married to me and staying the night at my house several times!

Things have been so good between fwh and I that I took the chance of calling him at work for comfort. I was crying and when he asked what was wrong, I told him. Instead of being loving and reassuring, he got defensive and angry. He thinks I'll never forgive him and that I'll still bring this up when our baby is 16 years old, instead of just when he's six months. I don't think I will, I think I can heal and get over it, but only if he is supportive instead of defensive!

We fought all day on the phone and more when he got home from work. Now it's the next day and I'm just exhausted and soooooo very sad. I just got off the phone with him again and said that I will just keep it to myself if I am hurting about this in the future. I know this will cut down on the fights but I also think it will slowly suffocate the love I feel starting to return for him.

I wish I knew what was the best way to proceed!!! I don't want to LB but I don't know how to just hide my pain and tears and yet still feel love towards the man who would rather I keep quiet than ruin another of his evenings with my tears!

Please, LA, if you're out there... shed some light of reason into this dark place I find my soul in today!!!

hello? anyone out there? I find myself wanting to call him, to what? not fight, but I think I'm fooling myself if I am really expecting a loving response or any comfort coming from him. I have a horrible headache and just want to cover my head in the blankets and cry. But I have a baby to care for and a new years eve party to prepare for. How do I fight this darkness? I know I need to somehow comfort myself so I can continue with my day/life even if he is emotionally unavailable to me.

I'm here, Suther...

What you experienced was exactly what you said...you brought the past into the present. You re-experienced all the trauma, the pain, and reached out like a second chance to a man who is not who is was then anymore than you are who you were.

You wanted him to heal the past inside you. Heal your pain. Like a do-over. If I said to you, Suther, heal me, would you respond defensively, powerlessly?

Sharing your stuff, your experience is sharing it...not putting it on someone else. You called him with an agenda...you wanted him to comfort you. That's a demand. Not sharing. Change your choice...to call to share...who you are...your experience...your stuff. Find your choice in what you're sharing, what belief those emotions are coming from and get all of it...share the relief this did not happen in the same way to you--you didn't die. Your child didn't die. Acknowledge the reality of what happened as well as your feelings about it. Your expectations for your H to not act as he did then...not in your control, his actions. Your expectations totally are. You were shown that when your H felt powerless, extreme stress, he distracted. Not a thing about you...about him. His choices.

When we turn to others and tell them...comfort me...say the things which I want to here, hold me in the way I can feel comfort...we are telling ourselves we cannot comfort, soothe or accept ourselves. Someone else has to...know that part of the pain, too, coming from you. Your choice to trigger, stay in the trigger, recollect and re-experience. You did that. Your choice.

Know your choice.

"I hear you perceive I'm blaming you, instead of sharing with you, is that correct?"

Clarify so you can know what you're really choosing to do and think, not him making you. Partnership is ownership. You were raised to believe others caused, controlled and cured us...your childhood was full of you did this, caused this...should'ves and could'ves. In your adult experience, is this reality?

You know humans do harm...they make choices which result in a lot of pain. And joy. You know you have harmed and will be harmed. You will live. Half of your experience comes from how you choose to perceive it...often calling reality what it isn't...saying here's the facts therefore there's the wrongness. Or rightness.

Get in touch with your choices...know reality was...your H dealt with your stuff differently than you did. You only control how you deal with it. Coping skills are not living skills. Sharing is not manipulation. You share through your choice to know and be known...not to get someone else to do or feel something. You can't make them.

Funny part is, Suther. When you really own all your stuff and share it...you will experience tremendous true comfort inside yourself because that's part of acceptance. And you'll experience a lot of acceptance from your H...because your perception changed. You may even perceive he's not defensive anymore, readily comforting, acknowledging, validating...because YOU are. Inside and out.

You don't fight darkness...you discern what it's made of. Your urge to call him is to complete yourself through him. Don't call until you're set in your own intent...which is to connect, not expect or complete.

You're whole. Each time you act out on wanting to get something from someone else, you're telling self you lack. That's dark. Not reality. You don't lack. You can experience great lack from your own choice to believe and act on that belief.

You'll experience physical, mental, emotional and spiritual consequences from your beliefs. When you feel like crying, cry. Those tears are yours...know the information you're giving yourself from your beliefs. Trace them not act from them. Your tears are valid...so are your feelings. They are yours. You are complete. Your choice to believe that or not.

Your choice to see him as emotionally unavailable instead of choosing to see all the ways he is...somewhere in the middle is truth, reality...your chosen perception will pull it to the all or nothing. Rarely true. Get real, Suther.

What you most crave you are least giving. Sure smarted inside me when I heard that told to me for the first time. It's a great tool for knowing, not bashing. Helps me identify what I'm not doing for myself, which guarantees, I'm not doing for others, either. That inevitable two-way street...remember that?

You are signalling yourself...through the choice to watch the show you did and react instead of act...know your true intent before you act. Check to see if it's old or new...pure or cluttered with hidden stuff. THEN act.

You're worth knowing, all of you. Nothing bad or wrong or scary...please stop fearing knowing yourself, 'k? See yourself all the way through and then share what you find, what you discover and know with your H.

In your corner,

LA

I'm doing what I feel like doing.. crying.. like you said. I havec so much hurt and pain and it's true, it's like I'm reliving that time in my life. Yes, I'm glad it turned out better for me and the baby, but I'm also reliving the pain of his betrayel when I needed him the most.

I'm trying to think through everything else you said. It doesn't really make any sense to me but I'm trying.

Just got off the phone with fwh and this time feel a little better. I acknowledged how much different he is now and told him I appreciated the changes he's worked so hard to make. He seemed to let down his defenses somewhat at this and although still not comforting, was at least not more hurtful.

He did bring up another issue that we've been dealing with. He said he also has his times of difficulty dealing with memories of that time in our life. See, when he kicked me and the the 4 older kids out last February, we had NOWHERE to go, no family, no money, no job, and with me 6 months pregnant! So we lived in a shelter for almost 3 months. During this time, I was in and out of the hospital with premature labor, while he spent his time and money on women and booze, not to mention a new vehicle and fancy new clothes for himself. The shelter/safehouse was getting antsy about us getting our own place as the time limit you're allowed to stay there is normally 30 days. But nothing seemed to be working out for us housing wise. Finally, with the baby due any day, a male friend of mine, who was also going through a divorce, offered to rent us part of his house. (he actually offered to just let us stay there until our section 8 came through but I insisted on paying as much as I could) I was desperate for a home to bring my baby home to, so I accepted. I had filed for divorce from my h the month prior after hearing him brag to coworkers about taking custody of the baby once it was born.

The kids and I lived there with him for 3 months until I got my own apt through section 8. This man moved all my stuff for me out of storage. He called 911 the night I we nt into labor and woke up hemoraghing in the middle of the night. He took care of my 4 children the week I was in the hospital, bringing them to see me too. When I got out of the hospital, he went to the store for my prescriptions, diapers and groceries. I couldn't drive for several weeks, so he took me to appointments, took the kids to school, whatever we needed. He was unfailingly kind and patient. Needless to say, I was very appreciative and became very attached. I even told him I loved him. He was very honorable and told me that even though he was very glad to have been of help to me and the kids, my divorce was not yet final, and so there could be NOTHING between us. And even when it was final, not to get my hopes up because he honestly felt that he could never let his guard down with another woman again after being hurt so much from his marraige.

That's about all there is to it. I've told my h about all of this yet he continues to hold it against me, saying that I had an EA, if not a PA.

Was it an EA? Is part of his defensiveness just his pain over this? I don't know what to think! But that's what he brought up when he was saying how he understands how the memories come back to haunt a person.

Yes, it was an affair, Suther.

And you didn't love him. You loved what he did for you.

Same as your H and his women...loved the feelings, the clean slate (heck, they didn't have painful memories nor did you with this guy)...not the person.

Acknowledge and validate your H's pain is real...it is.

Can you allow your H to meet your needs, as you did AP? Can you open and share without requirement, as you did this AP? Up to you what you make of your marriage, your part.

I'm glad you owned what you did, how you felt, what you believed. Do you compare your H to this man? Subtle ways...like...he would comfort me...not be defensive.

AP had nothing to be defensive about.

Can you find your way to seeing your H as a clean slate...and yourself?

LA

Yes, I know that I compare them at times, such as I know he (om) wouldn't have left me pregnant, penniless, and homeless, like my h did. And I wanted my h to meet my needs, not this om. I called him whenever I was in the hospital (h), let him know how things were going with the baby, when I could drive I went by his apt to see him, I never stopped my plan a, except for filing for divorce to protect my parental rights and then moving in with this man as a roommate when I was homeless and desperate for shelter for my children. He (om) never reciprocated my feelings and yes, I do realize now that what I thought was love was just extreme appreciation in an extreme situation. Am I now rationalizing? Because I do have a hard time swallowing that this was an EA.

Regardless, I'm trying to give us both a clean slate.

I'm not trying to discount your opinion on this LA, but I'm just still really have a hard time thinking I had an affair!!! He has been saying all along that I was disloyal to him and our marraige but I kept looking at as I did what I had to do to survive and take care of my children. I don't know what to think now...

so my fwh invites all these people over for a new years party. None of my friends btw, cuz the only people I know are from the shelter or the domestic violence classes I've taken. So I wanted to fix up the house a little. I mean, it looks like a hotel, all this new furniture but no curtains, no pictures on the walls, no plants... just a few pics of Ted's boys on the mantel. So I figure I've lived here almost 2 months and haven't brought over much more than an overnight bag, maybe I should start actually kinda moving in. So I bring over a couple of vanloads of our things yesterday. He first of all gets a little grouchy about my asking if I can put my comforter on our bed. His is really manly, stripes, bachelorish, and mine is antique victorian looking. But I say that's fine, really , I was just asking. Then I ask his opinion on how I wanted to hang up some pics of all the kids on the dining room wall. and also add some pics of mine to the mantel. OMG.. you should have seen the look on his face!! It was like, what in the world gave you the idea that you have any right to walze into my house and start rearranging things?? He started yelling at me, saying how he had plans to hang a picture of Chicago on that wall.. so I started crying and saying that's ok, I won't change anything, and I'm sorry I assumed he wanted me to make myself at home. Then he backs off a little and suggests hanging those pics in the hallway, to which I respond, no that's ok, I'm don't feel like decorating anymore, I just need to get the house cleaned before the party. (and I'm not saying any of this sarcastically, I'm just shocked and hurt) To this he starts yelling at me again, saying "oh I see how it is, if it's not TRACY'S way, than it's no way" Then I just went into the bedroom where I've been crying ever since. He just went downstairs to watch football.. glad he "won" I guess. I just know that every time he does that, I feel less desire to "work it out".

I'm there.. rock bottom. I guess the only way to go is up. The only promlem is that I feel as if I'm a parapalegic trying to swim up from the depths of the ocean.

to fill you in...

New years eve, I'm still feeling down and very much like a vagabond, with no real home for my soul, even though I have two houses I can put my body in. H doesn't seem to even notice or care. Get through most of the night but at 11, my oldest dd calls from her dads to wish me happy new years. And that opened the floodgates.. how much I missed the kids, how disconnected I was feeling from my husband. I didn't want to make a scene by crying in front of our guests so I went outside to talk to her. I then went for a walk just to clear my head and try to calm down. I get back to the house and walk in, just to be waylaid by yelling and accusations. H thought I was out meeting someone or calling someone. I was shocked and tried explaining but to no avail. He went downstairs and I sat down, just in shock. One of the guests stayed upstairs with me and asked if I was ok. And out it came.. all of it. The whole sordid story of our marriage. And even though now, it's technically not bad, ie no cheating, lying, withholding, punishing, silent treatment, rages.. no more of that stuff, our marriage is still so very fragile.
I finally go to bed after he falls asleep downstairs. 2 hours later he comes in the bedroom, yelling at me again, accusing me of an affair. I'm just crying and trying to tell him no but he won't listen and won't stop. I think the alcohol had a lot to do with his paranoia and raging. I finally got the kids up and we all left, to stay the rest of the night at the apartment.

The next morning i realize that I don't have any diapers for the baby at my place, so here we go, back to his house. He acts like nothing ever happened, laughing and joking over breakfast with his friends. When I ask, do you want me to move my stuff out of his house, he replies, I don't care what you do. (as soon as the others aren't in the close vicinity, he lets me know how furious he is that I told his friend all the crap he's put me through)

So I start loading up our stuff.. again... for what seems like the 100th time this year. I just can't seem to muster the energy to even deal with it. I start thinking about how hard it's been on the kids, doing this back and forth, and everything else I've drug them through. Somehow I got through everything else, being homeless, wh's betrayel with other women, the health problems, all of that I had strength for. It took some digging deep, but I did it. Now there's just nothing left. Nothing. I went in the bedroom, sat on the bed, and decided I didn't want to go on. Not only did I feel incapable of continuing, I just plain didn't want to. I called my xh and asked that he take in the kids. He didn't ask why, he just said he would. Then I took the baby down to his dad, and proceeded to take about 4 bottles of various medications. Then I went over to my apt and went to sleep.

I was so mad when I woke up a few hours later. I was sicker than a dog but I was alive. I couldn't believe it didn't work! I thought what I took was pretty lethal. I called a poison control center to check. She said yes it was very lethal, just not immediate. She said if I didn't get to a hospital, I would die, which was the plan, but not like this. She said it would take up to a week for my various organs to stop functioning, resulting in a very painful, long and drawn out death, not the quick easy way out I was hoping for.

So I called my h and asked him to take me to the hospital. They got me stabilized and starting to detox there, then of course I was sent to the psych ward. I was glad actually, I know I need help. My h was terrified and very supportive through it all. Fast forward a few days, and here I am, back at home. Exhausted, still shaky and week, and scared, but trying to tenuously hold onto the thought that I can do this. I'm just trying to take it moment by moment. I'm not supposed to be alone for awhile so for the moment I'm staying with my h. But I wonder if I should go to my apt as soon as I'm able. Being there alone would be hard and probly depressing, but I'm afraid that here, although h is doing so much better, he can still be so insensitive and I'm not sure if he realizes how fragile I am right now and the devastation that would cause me. I know I need to get stronger so I can hold up against lifes normal ups and down, but just in the next few days and weeks, I desperately a safe, non challenging environment. I don't feel safe or able to relax anywhere. I have an appointmen with the psychologist in the morning.. maybe she can help me sort through this mess.

I'm doing somewhat better.. on new meds and more intensive counseling. I gave up custody of 3 of my 4 older children, at least for the time being, until I can be more stable for them.

Dear Suther,

I've been at my Dad's house since New Year's Eve...I'm glad you came here to post, to be honest and share.

Since the time you moved out of your house and into the shelter, you've had counseling, books prescribed and meetings to go to...for self-discovery. To find out not why he does what he does or did...but you, your own answers to your whys.

You've learned a lot, inside and out...that you aren't alone...you aren't crazy, bad or wrong...and what you know now gets applied to the past, as well...how you view the past from your chosen perspective today has a big impact on your present life. Actions. Perceptions.

Seems to me you're still viewing the past, choosing the perspective you had before you knew you cannot be the cause, control or cure for anyone else...nor can they, you.

Are you set on your own power and limits? I ask because this concerns me:

"Yes, I know that I compare them at times, such as I know he (om) wouldn't have left me pregnant, penniless, and homeless, like my h did."

I don't see your half, your part. You left yourself pregnant, penniless and homeless, as well, true? This is not blame...this is seeing true reality, not interpreted reality.

"And I wanted my h to meet my needs, not this om."

Would you consider that affairs are not as much about who you want to meet your ENs, but who you choose to allow to meet them?

"I called him whenever I was in the hospital (h), let him know how things were going with the baby, when I could drive I went by his apt to see him,"

See, here's where I perceive you owning your part well...and I would love to see you congratulate and acknowledge your power in your choice...his reactions did not dictate yours here...you chose. And you chose to inform, connect and continue, anyway. Not based on his caring or not, disconnecting himself or stopping his A. This is where I'd like you to focus, to know...you chose. You did. You don't make the outcome...you have no control...however, you define your results...which is you were aware of your choices and you chose from honor and respect.

"I never stopped my plan a, except for filing for divorce to protect my parental rights and then moving in with this man as a roommate when I was homeless and desperate for shelter for my children. He (om) never reciprocated my feelings and yes, I do realize now that what I thought was love was just extreme appreciation in an extreme situation. Am I now rationalizing? Because I do have a hard time swallowing that this was an EA."

You told another man you loved him...not your WH. Can you see how your WH's choices were the same...not about you...could be seen as desperation, you doing to him (though you weren't), no other choices...when there were several? This mindset is more clearly revealed in the light of an EA than in choosing to not see it as an EA.

Again, no one wants to be blamed...to be at fault. The most you will ever be at fault for in your life is half. Your half. Unless you choose the perspective of all, which is fantasy.

Inappropriate is defined by you, for you, about you. I'm not saying you're wrong...I'm asking you to consider the formula for a wayward mindset...

Entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect.

When you can hear the difference between justifications and choices...acting (by stating) from your feelings, not your beliefs...reacting to others, seeing them as the cause, control and cure for you...when you alone are. Even with OM...same thing. The perspective (mindset) continues...and it's damaging your life through fantasy. Reality is a relief. I'm asking you to get two hands on reality.

"Regardless, I'm trying to give us both a clean slate."

To try is to lie...an old saying...not an accusation. Either give yourself a clean slate and see your H as new, too...or don't. Do or do not. That's human reality. No try.

"He has been saying all along that I was disloyal to him and our marraige but I kept looking at as I did what I had to do to survive and take care of my children. I don't know what to think now..."

Where is the acknowledgement and understanding that his perspective, his beliefs, are his, in this post? He believes you were disloyal...that's his. Doesn't mean you were or weren't...only you define that. You choose to see your choices in light of survival. He's communicating he feels betrayed, replaced, judged, compared and that the past is impacting his present. Listen and repeat. That's his. Doesn't mean you're doing it...respect his truth is his own, not The Truth.

What you won't do for others, you will not do for yourself, Tracy. What you choose to do for yourself, you will also do for others. Remains your choice.

You are looking for The Truth if you had an EA or not...I don't believe there is a The Truth. I believe that when we put anyone or anything ahead of our marriage, which is the partnership of ourselves with another self...then we are having an affair. We are bringing a third party into it. That's separate from circumstances...goes only to what you believe, the code you live up to which you defined and created and hold yourself to in your life.

Seems to me you rely on being told The Truth...that there is a perfect way to live out there, only if you could find it. There isn't. There is your truth, his truth, my truth and our actions are the only The Truth there is. And you won't be able to see The Truth of actions when you DJ those actions. Which may drive your need for pure truth, outside yourself. Your truth matters, Tracy. Truly does. Stop negating your own so you can clarify what is the truth from human truths.

Consider this in regards to how you experienced New Year's Eve day...

Remember when we worked on seeing our own choices as choices? How absurd it sounded yet how often we couldn't see them? We could easily see where we were done to, how others hurts us and made us happy...that we stepped over our choice in everything? I want to bring you back to your choices...not to blame or fault...to show you your power.

"so my fwh invites all these people over for a new years party."

Have you two been working on POJA? Delineating what is to be POJA'd and what doesn't need to be? Did he POJA with you to have a party, who to invite, who will do what, enthusiastically on both your parts?

"None of my friends btw, cuz the only people I know are from the shelter or the domestic violence classes I've taken."

Is this a DJ to him or to yourself, or both? Did he state, "I'm not inviting any of your friends because they are from the shelter or domestic violence classes"? Or do you assume? Or are you saying they aren't really your friends? That you don't want them intimately involved in your life, like a party, rather kept to where you go to grow and know, outside your home?

"So I wanted to fix up the house a little. I mean, it looks like a hotel,"

It looks like a hotel to you. May look homey to him. Here is another POJA issue...you want this to be your marital home...understanding what you want and what he may want is respect. Deciding what it looks like (as if this is a separate truth) is an LB.

"all this new furniture but no curtains, no pictures on the walls, no plants..."

So you're saying this is what feels homey to you...curtains, pictures, plants. Good to know. Not homey to everyone...homey to you. That's valid.

"just a few pics of Ted's boys on the mantel. So I figure I've lived here almost 2 months and haven't brought over much more than an overnight bag, maybe I should start actually kinda moving in."

And you decided this without discussing it with your husband. You decided. You chose. See where each of you are violating POJA through independent behavior, stemming from justification?

Not you wrong or he wrong...get to the facts of your choices and his choices. His you don't know...yours, you do.

By doing this now, even in retrospect, you'll see your power and limits...not to feel blame and self-punish...to KNOW. To not see it as him doing it all to you and you doing it all to him. You're both humans. You can only do half...your half. Like a mathematical certainty.

"So I bring over a couple of vanloads of our things yesterday. He first of all gets a little grouchy about my asking if I can put my comforter on our bed."

Wow, huge DJ here...you're assuming his grouchiness was from the comforter...not you moving two vanloads over, which is change to your mutual environment, without POJAing, sharing what you're thinking, feeling and believing and hearing what he feels, thinks and believes. Had you established a mutual path of enthusiasm first, do you think you'd be DJing? DJing is fantasy...it's self-deception. Please read, learn and know your DJs...they hurt you and others like knives and clubs.

"His is really manly, stripes, bachelorish, and mine is antique victorian looking. But I say that's fine, really , I was just asking."

I'm confused. So you lied? The very purpose of moving your stuff in was to make that environment into a marital home. Also symbolized was you desiring to put a girlie comforter on the marital bed you share...so you can share in the environment. Him stating that he rejects the comforter can be felt as him rejecting you...not wanting you to share in the marital bed, the marital home...and you say that's fine with you? Is that your lie to him and to yourself?

Were you being enabling, controlling his emotions by your words, or honest?

"Then I ask his opinion on how I wanted to hang up some pics of all the kids on the dining room wall. and also add some pics of mine to the mantel."

You shared what you desired to do...like the comforter...skipping over all the whys, your stuff...where your desire was coming from. Is that honest? Did you say, "I feel like a visitor to our marriage. I'm looking for physical symbols to help me reintegrate, recommit to our marriage...or maybe, as examples to remind me of my recommitment. What would you be enthusiastic about changing in our environment and what wouldn't you be?"

"OMG.. you should have seen the look on his face!!"

You DJ'd his look. You didn't ask for clarification or confirmation. You assumed. Asking would be honest: "I'm reading you, and I know that's a DJ. Would you please share what you're thinking/feeling right now, from my request?"

That's healthy and respectful. DJs aren't.

"It was like, what in the world gave you the idea that you have any right to walze into my house and start rearranging things??"

Another crippling DJ you do to yourself. If he stated, "I feel like this is my house. I fear you moving all of your stuff, yourself into what feels like my turf, my protection" would you be respectful and acknowledge that his truth, not the truth? Would you have felt such deep rejection and disownment? When you assume through reading, assuming, you give yourself great rejection and disownment.

"He started yelling at me, saying how he had plans to hang a picture of Chicago on that wall.."

Do you have boundaries with predetermined progressive enforcements in place for abuse? Do you consider yelling to be abusive? Do you allow yourself to yell? I know you've learned a lot in the shelter and meetings...can you say honestly why you did not enforce your own boundaries? Or hold yourself to your standards? See, if you permit yourself to DJ, then you permit him to. Can't enforce that boundary. And separate the yelling from what he's saying? "Yelling is abusive. Stop. I hear you saying you had other plans for that wall, is that correct?" That's your first boundary enforcement.

Instead: "so I started crying and saying that's ok, I won't change anything, and I'm sorry I assumed he wanted me to make myself at home."

This is equally abusive. DJ's are. You lied and betrayed yourself by saying it's okay to abuse you...OUCH! Then from your resentment and fear, you chose to pledge to not change anything...which was self-stabbing and a lie because you desired to connect and be intimate...to live married and work on your marriage...and then you apologized for assuming his stuff and twisted it around to be his fault you're crying...rather than apologizing for DJing all of it, which was your choice. I would've cried, too...from the great pain his yelling and all my betrayal and self-punishment, self-negation I was doing.

Crying is a signal. Did you get what it was signalling to you?

"Then he backs off a little and suggests hanging those pics in the hallway,"

He reacts to your pain...backs off, stops yelling...the old pattern of an abuser. They believe they are the cause, control and cure for others' pain...they've been told all their lives they are...and they believe it. You continue that...you do it as you reflect on his past choices and now, on his yelling, his facial gestures, his lack of inviting you to move your stuff in, and lack of compromising on changing the home. All on him...not you.

Don't you want to stop aiding in his abuse of you? In his stuff? Wouldn't you love to finally be free through respecting his stuff and knowing yours is your own, as well? Wouldn't you love to stop aiding in your abuse of you and him? Wouldn't you love to be free of it through respecting yourself, your stuff, and living IN truth, instead of stuck in searching for it?

"to which I respond, no that's ok, I'm don't feel like decorating anymore, I just need to get the house cleaned before the party. (and I'm not saying any of this sarcastically, I'm just shocked and hurt)"

You lied some more here...you said you don't feel like so you don't do. Tells him you act from your feelings, no choice in the matter. Makes him responsible for changing YOUR feelings, therefore, your choices. All fantasy. And you lie because you don't say (lying by omission), "I feel shocked and hurt. Here's why." You don't own your own feelings because you are busy putting them on him.

I know you know this...I'm reminding. I know you've learned he isn't your first abuser...and this isn't your first victimhood. I know you've studied, listened, learned and discovered a lot in yourself. This is the key component...you are separate and equal...limited and powerful. Get back to that. All that followed this came from your choice to self-deceive, lie to him, and look for him to cure you since he's the cause. OUCH...tells self that self is a victim, powerless, choiceless, done to...and you know that isn't The Truth...and it's a sorry truth to have in yourself since self is innocent. You are innocent...you are not the cause of his abuse, the control or the cure. YOU KNOW THAT.

"To this he starts yelling at me again, saying "oh I see how it is, if it's not TRACY'S way, than it's no way""

And your second boundary enforcement, which you couldn't do because you weren't living up to the same standard, would have been, "You know yelling is abusive. I'm removing myself from this room for five minutes while I calm myself down. I want to understand what you're really saying."

"Then I just went into the bedroom where I've been crying ever since. He just went downstairs to watch football.. glad he "won" I guess. I just know that every time he does that, I feel less desire to "work it out"."

Instead, you did remove without honestly stating the boundary or the enforcement or the time limit, your desire to reconnect or understand, sans abuse. You reacted, withdrew, which is abusive, as well. You gave tit for tat.

You both escaped reality...setting yourself up for more of the same pattern...and you cried, felt pain, from being in that well-worn, well-known grove...which is why we continue patterns which destroy and devastate us...so we can be right rather than married.

You DJ'd abusively again...to him and yourself with this belief: " He just went downstairs to watch football.. glad he "won" I guess."

Reality is...neither of you acted true or authentically to each other or yourselves. Both of you reacted historically. Neither of you owned what you did and made amends through ownership. Both of you felt pain, rejection, control and causation. Because you shut him out through withdrawal and he shut you out through withdrawal.

There is no wrong or right...both lose...the marriage loses. The children lose. Through their caretaker's choices.

You only own your own choices. Your half. DJs, from resentment, will bar you from growing, owning and living in true freedom, love and responsibility. And you're doing that to yourself. He has no control over how you live.

And there was a party that night.

Tracy, your self loves you...and is trying every which way to get your attention...listen to your own words, your imagery:

"I'm there.. rock bottom. I guess the only way to go is up. The only promlem is that I feel as if I'm a parapalegic trying to swim up from the depths of the ocean."

You have cut off your arms and hands...how we give and receive...how we connect...and you've spent a ton of effort to change what you have no power to change...and not seen you still have your arms, your legs, that you are whole. Bottom line of your existence...you are demanding from your H to make you whole...for others to fill in your self, define and accept and love you...because you are not doing any of these things for yourself...all on them...whomever they are...OM, H, children, FOO...anyone.

Your pain, suffering, torment are real...they are yours. They are valid. Fact remains...you are as whole, complete and marvelously made as I am...as anyone. You are equal. You really are. Until you own this as fact, make it your deepest belief, you won't see yourself being with all limbs, not in motion, just being...which is where we get the name human beings, not doings. No ocean at all...just being.

God made you a being...not a doing. He loved you from being...not earning God's love. He weeps at the pain you cause yourself, the beliefs which sear you, and he rejoices in your self-love and honor...he is with you, always. Unchangeable. He honors you being separate and equal to all of his other creations...he aches for you to find the joy in honoring their separateness, their completeness, as well as your own. You can continue to believe you're defective, crippled, lacking...or you can thrive. He respects your choice as your own, not his doing. That's HOW much he loves you.

Celebrate your being at your rock bottom, your own baseline...if this is what it took for you to feel God's love (hence, how much you are already loved everywhere); and love yourself. Mourn it took this much by accepting it takes what it takes...and acknowledging you've felt at rock bottom before...and you could go lower. Do I remember correctly that you have other attempted suicides previously? One of the LBs in your marriage, before his A? Or was that another poster on your thread last year?

Beware of false rock bottoms. You'll know when you truly reached it only after you changed so dramatically to see it clearly.

The way self tries to get your attention off of self-image and onto true self.

"New years eve, I'm still feeling down and very much like a vagabond,"

Because you chose to believe where you live determines if you're home. Your home is inside you. It's constant. And it misses you greatly. Was for me.

"with no real home for my soul, even though I have two houses I can put my body in."

Again, from your belief, you were feeling great rejection and despair. You were doing this to yourself. Your choice of perception and perspective is wholly yours...choose wisely.

"H doesn't seem to even notice or care."

Another destructive DJ to yourself, your H and your marriage.

"Get through most of the night but at 11, my oldest dd calls from her dads to wish me happy new years. And that opened the floodgates.. how much I missed the kids, how disconnected I was feeling from my husband. I didn't want to make a scene by crying in front of our guests"

Would you consider you were being deceptive to everyone and continued the deception by removing yourself? You have not yet learned that to state your stuff is very different than to act it out...stating not demonstrating. When you learn this difference, embrace it, know and practice it, you will stop being a victim of yourself and your choices. No one else can make you a victim--only you can.

"so I went outside to talk to her. I then went for a walk just to clear my head and try to calm down. I get back to the house and walk in, just to be waylaid by yelling and accusations. H thought I was out meeting someone or calling someone. I was shocked and tried explaining but to no avail."

You didn't choose to acknowledge and validate his beliefs and thoughts...you refuted them. You disrespected your H and only saw him disrespecting you. He can only do half, Tracy. He was full of fear, experiencing a lot of projection...which I want you to consider later, as you grasp this...that his own actions and choices give him the perception of your disloyalty, adultery, betrayal. As we betray ourselves, so do we feel betrayed by others. Knowing which is which and owning where it's coming from is key...for you.

"He went downstairs and I sat down, just in shock. One of the guests stayed upstairs with me and asked if I was ok. And out it came.. all of it."

There is no "it" in real life. There is only you. You chose to spill it all to someone...tell me why. To justify? Refute? Change their view of you? Disprove your infidelity? To know if it was infidelity? YOU ALREADY KNOW YOU ARE NOT BEING UNFAITHFUL RIGHT NOW. You know that. You may have a wayward perspective...which is damaging your relationship...is that what this is? Because you don't own your stuff...you don't follow your H and say, "I hear you believe I'm being unfaithful and deceptive right now. You're right about me being deceptive. I'm not being honest with you or myself about what happened today, how I felt, what I chose to do and not do. I am betraying our marriage choosing to lie by omission. I am not betraying our marriage through an affair with a person." Calmly, respectfully, and honestly.

"The whole sordid story of our marriage. And even though now, it's technically not bad, ie no cheating, lying, withholding, punishing, silent treatment, rages.. no more of that stuff, our marriage is still so very fragile."

Your permission to judge...bad, good, better, worse...gets in the way of you accepting what is, reality, from fantasy. Judgment is fantasy. Your marriage is full of betrayal...because you both introduced it into the marriage and haven't healed from it...betrayal from abuse, not enforcing boundaries or standards, shredding each other with disrespect...it's full of lies through omission, rotten communication, permissions to withhold, punish through withdrawal, silently stuffing your stuff and him, his...LBs. Judgment is illusion because it depends on what you are comparing your present to...

Are you comparing it to the past actions or the actions you desire in your marriage? One way, not bad...other, hideous. You have your part. Own it. Not judge it.

"I finally go to bed after he falls asleep downstairs. 2 hours later he comes in the bedroom, yelling at me again, accusing me of an affair."

And this abuse is allowed, no boundary enforcement as I've described above. Which happens when he first yells, not after you consider what he's yelling about.

"I'm just crying and trying to tell him no but he won't listen and won't stop. I think the alcohol had a lot to do with his paranoia and raging. I finally got the kids up and we all left, to stay the rest of the night at the apartment."

You went from progressive boundary enforcements (not enforced) to a third or fourth one...with nothing in between. Reactive, not protective. Deceptive, not honest. And you took blame, responsibility for his stuff with you, choking on it. Running from doesn't get us anywhere...we go with us.

"The next morning i realize that I don't have any diapers for the baby at my place, so here we go, back to his house. He acts like nothing ever happened, laughing and joking over breakfast with his friends."

More DJs which stab you...aren't real...and sink you further into fantasy...your well-known zone. See that false payoff?

"When I ask, do you want me to move my stuff out of his house, he replies, I don't care what you do."

Your question was a DJ...has no ownership. Puts choice all on him...which is what crushes human beings...instead of, "I want to talk about last night. I don't understand and I want to understand. I am thinking you don't want me here, in our home or in our marriage. I am reading you, DJing you and spiraling like I used to. I want our marriage. I want to grow. I want us to be side by side and right now, I've defined you as my enemy. I know you are not. I'm reacting to you as if you are. You're my husband."

"(as soon as the others aren't in the close vicinity, he lets me know how furious he is that I told his friend all the crap he's put me through)"

He shares his stuff...his fear from self-image...states his anger instead of demonstrating? You don't mention AOing here.

"So I start loading up our stuff.. again... for what seems like the 100th time this year."

You choose again to DJ and ACT on your DJ. You make his anger your dictator and you choose to react instead of act. And you realize this pattern even as you do it for what feels like the 100th time this year. Self signalling you to a pattern, a destructive, childish, unhealthy pattern. Self fears you.

"I just can't seem to muster the energy to even deal with it. I start thinking about how hard it's been on the kids, doing this back and forth, and everything else I've drug them through."

Again...you take all the blame...own all the outcomes, and it's like putting huge stones in your own pockets. You're half. Your half can't stretch further at times and shorten at others. It's yours. All of your children have experienced this pattern again and again...before your H...your reactivity instead of activity. They find comfort in the pattern, same as you do...the known being better than the unknown...and yes, they are affected, struggling, full of pain from fear and anger, like you. You're teaching them to accept everything and not anyone. Not even themselves. You are teaching them powerlessness and victimhood...bad guys and good guys. Same as you were taught growing up...and your folks...and their folks...back and back. Up to you to change the patterns...break new ground...to thrive instead of survive...or to end it all.

"Somehow I got through everything else, being homeless, wh's betrayel with other women, the health problems, all of that I had strength for. It took some digging deep, but I did it. Now there's just nothing left. Nothing."

Nothing you could feel because your belief was you got through, took the abuse, endured what was unendurable, tolerated what was intolerable and used up all of yourself to get someone else to change so he could fill you up.

Didn't take you digging deep...took you pushing stuff deep, betraying yourself constantly, not understanding boundaries and standards, living reactivity, and like a nuclear meltdown, you wiped out everything in you...because you refused to see yourself as the cause, control and cure for your own stuff. And that you were innocent...and it was the self-image you created which told you to endure what is destructive, tolerate what degrades, and earn love harder, deeper so it will last forever...and it can't. Real self didn't. Not one bit. Self-image did. Told you to live from fear, not love. Don't trust love, it's temporary...go with fear, it lasts. Act from it. Live in it...and that you're defective (which is why you created self-image) and wrong.

So you put all this "out there" instead of looking inside to your premise...your self-image. You. Because you were too dangerous to self...your judgement was battery acid you flung on everyone and on yourself...you blamed and took blame, reinforcing you were defective...and you saw love as losing or winning...instead of an act you choose, from a belief you chose...which IS choosing your life.

"I went in the bedroom, sat on the bed, and decided I didn't want to go on. Not only did I feel incapable of continuing, I just plain didn't want to."

Know this symbol...you no longer wanted to live the way you were experiencing life. The child within says that to not experience pain, rob yourself of life. Not true. Pain is...it's a signal. Even numbness is a signal. Make your symbol this truth...You do not want to continue doing the same things expecting different results. You want to experience life as it is...the reality...you no longer want to continue on in fantasy.

Your attempt was you telling self, "Okay. I hear you. I will focus and commit to not living in fantasy anymore."

Hold onto that with both hands, Tracy. You're worthy of that commitment.

"I was so mad when I woke up a few hours later. I was sicker than a dog but I was alive. I couldn't believe it didn't work! I thought what I took was pretty lethal. I called a poison control center to check. She said yes it was very lethal, just not immediate."

I believe you knew this more deeply than your desire to not go on...you didn't want to stop living...you wanted to stop living in the same way...and you'd punish yourself a lot to make yourself stop. Not unusual or abnormal...not defective. We believe punishment is healthy, and it's not. When you see where you choose everything in your life, including how you experience it, then punishment is obsolete. Choice remains.

"So I called my h and asked him to take me to the hospital."

Is there anyway you could have done this on your own? I ask because of balance...what you do to yourself, you must amend and own...and this was using your H to do for you, cure what you caused, aiding in his effort, and a risk...if he chose not to.

Under your power do you live. Yours. Remember that as a symbol.

"They got me stabilized and starting to detox there, then of course I was sent to the psych ward. I was glad actually, I know I need help. My h was terrified and very supportive through it all. Fast forward a few days, and here I am, back at home. Exhausted, still shaky and week, and scared, but trying to tenuously hold onto the thought that I can do this."

It's a fact, Tracy. You are fully capable of recoverying. Nothing defective or broken. Know it and you won't spend your effort trying...you'll be doing.

"I'm just trying to take it moment by moment. I'm not supposed to be alone for awhile so for the moment I'm staying with my h."

You're choosing to stay with your H. Has always been yours to choose...and you have. What else are you doing for yourself? Alanon? DV meetings? What are you reading? What are you learning, watching, feeding off of right now?

"But I wonder if I should go to my apt as soon as I'm able. Being there alone would be hard and probly depressing, but I'm afraid that here, although h is doing so much better, he can still be so insensitive and I'm not sure if he realizes how fragile I am right now and the devastation that would cause me."

Cause you. Control you. Cure you. STOP!!!!

"I know I need to get stronger"

Not strength...ownership. I swear. Believing you aren't strong enough IS your weakness...which is judgment...no acceptance in that at all...full of rejecting. Forget listening to your H...LISTEN TO YOURSELF. HEAR YOURSELF. Listen and repeat to yourself. Please.

"so I can hold up against lifes normal ups and down, but just in the next few days and weeks, I desperately a safe, non challenging environment."

You are not safe for yourself inside. You are not accepting. Inside. Nowhere you physically go will change that. You can. Choose to be SAFE and accepting and focus inward on you.

"I don't feel safe or able to relax anywhere. I have an appointmen with the psychologist in the morning.. maybe she can help me sort through this mess."

And maybe your choice to see her will help you. Half. Tracy you are half...your life is half...get this...no one out there has the power to fix you...and you aren't broken...you limit others' influence...wide open or not...please choose to live from respect and take your focus off your H and onto you...fully. Respectfully. With awareness and a goal of reality, not judgment.

You don't have to earn your own self-love...you have to choose it.

LA

As usual, wow is all I can say. I'm starting to see these things that you are talking about. While waiting out the 72 hour hold, it started to dawn on me that this isn't all someone else's fault. That I let these people do these things, and that I choose to see myself as not good enough, or else they would treat me better, right? My first suicide attempt was while my first marriage was breaking up. My then in-laws had treated me very abusively and I always thought that if I "killed them with kindness" so to speak, they would eventually see that I was a good person and treat me accordingly. That never happened and after 11 years, I started to believe what they told me.. ie.. that I'm nothing but white trash that their son pulled out of the gutter and gave a life, and that I'm a horrible wife and mother. The psychologist there said that he thought I was fine, not with major depression or anything, I just needed to get out of the toxic situation I was in. In a way, I think that was right, in that I needed to realize that I couldn't continue to allow people to treat me that way and it not affect me. But I also needed to realize that it was and is me to the extent that I choose to remain in situations like this and not enforce my boundaries of what kinds of treatment I will accept.

So I guess I understand in theory what you are saying. I seem to have a hard time putting it into practice. For instance, I still seem to feel reluctance in putting anything of "mine" in our home. He says it's our home, but again there's the past intruding, where as little as 2 months ago, he said make yourself at home and then feeling crowded, decided to push me away and create distance between us by getting back on another dating site. So do I talk to him about my fears? Respecting his thoughts and opinions but honestly telling him mine? I was being honest when I said that it was ok to not put a different comforter on our bed. It really didn't bother me. But I'm not sure how to react to yelling. I know I need to say something like "stop.. yelling at me is abusive" but I just seem to start crying. I just want to hide and cry.

I'm starting to be able to separate that that is his stuff and not let it get to me as much. Like he has this single guy friend over almost every night for dinner. They were downstairs watching football and I came up to clean up the kitchen. When I was done with that, I checked this sight for a response. He came up with the friend a few minutes later and looked at me, wrinkled his brow, and said, "you were up here messing around on the computer??" I interpret that as him being disgruntled with me not coming back downstairs, and that I was being rude to our guest. I know this is going off of past reactions and is a dj, but how else should I react? Should I ask what the comment meant? In the past this would lead to a fight or else him just saying "nothing" grouchily and a cold evening between us. He is different now and making changes along these lines so I'm not sure how to take this. Here I sit obsessing over how I should have handled this evening so that we don't end up not talking or touching the rest of the night. Is that my tendancy to feel as if I'm responsible for making everyone happy? Am I making progress in telling myself that it's ok if he's a little grouchy and dissapproving, that MY truth is that it's ok that I got on the computer after cleaning the kitchen. And just give him his space to be grouchy or not, that it's his deal? Is that what you're trying to tell me????

As you can tell, this is all so foreign to me. I'm learning in counseling about how we all have tapes that automatically run through our heads, set up in childhood. My tapes tell me over and over, that it's my job to make sure everyone is happy and also, that no matter what I do, or how hard I try, I will never be good enough at this, or anything else I try. I'm working on consciously trying to refute these tapes.

I know what you mean by me reacting, instead of acting, when I took the kids to the apartment to finish the night. But it was 4 o'clock in the morning, I was exhausted and the kids were crying, and I just felt too tired to try and stand up and defend my boundaries to a very large, very loud, very drunk man! Am I just making excuses?

I do seem to want reassurance of THE truth about any given situation. I am trying to know MY truth instead and somehow feel secure in that knowledge even if others don't agree. I really don't feel that I had an EA. That is my truth. I don't think I ever put my roomate ahead of my husband. I called my h every time I needed a prescription and didn't have the money, or I had a doctor appointment and couldn't drive to it, or needed something for the baby, etc.. it was only when he ignored my phone calls and messages, or outright yelled and cussed me out in response to my requests or needs, that I relied on my roommate, not having any family or anyone else to ask.

As far as him being grouchy with me for moving over some of my things (2 vanloads), we had discussed this prior to me doing it, and he reassured me that this is my home and so of course, I should feel free to move all my things over here, not just a few, which I had asked about. So that's why I thought the grouchiness was over the blanket, not the whole moving in together thing, because that's what he told me! I'm trying to take him at his word!!!

Anyways, I need to get the kids to bed for now, but I'm still pondering over all you had to say. Thank you so much for responding and trying to help me see these things. I feel as if I take 2 steps forward only to take 10 back!

Ok, so last night ended like I thought it would. He fell asleep on the couch watching tv. In the past, he would get very angry if I asked him to come to bed, but in counseling, he has since reassured me that it's ok. So I go down and say "honey, it's almost 1 am, are you gonna come to bed?" to which he responds angrily "you do what you wanna do, why are you in here giving me crap about falling asleep on the couch?" So I come upstairs and cry myself to sleep. This morning I think through what I want to say so that we can have an honest discussion about what's going on. I ask if he's upset with me for some reason and he says no, very harshly, without looking away from the tv. I say, well, I just feel some coldness and distance between us and can't figure out why. Then he goes on to say that I was very rude to our guest the night before, and then I have the nerve to give him crap about falling asleep downstairs, and then one of the kids wrote on the bathroom sink, and where the h**l are his antlers that were on that shelf??? I don't know how to respond to all this, so I come upstairs and cry. After making the beds and doing some other housework, I take all the laundry down, and ask him, quite timidly, if it would bother him if I started some laundry. He rolls his eyes and says, fine whatever. I say, well, that kind of comes across to me that you really don't want me to, is that right? He says "Ya think???" So I don't start the laundry and instead come upstairs and cry.

I'm trying to just let him be grouchy, and not let it get to me so much. I don't know why it devastates me so badly when he's angry and cold to me!!

Ok.. so I finally have time to address the issues you brought up.

Seems to me you're still viewing the past, choosing the perspective you had before you knew you cannot be the cause, control or cure for anyone else...nor can they, you. True.. I still view things this way.


"Yes, I know that I compare them at times, such as I know he (om) wouldn't have left me pregnant, penniless, and homeless, like my h did."

I don't see your half, your part. You left yourself pregnant, penniless and homeless, as well, true? This is not blame...this is seeing true reality, not interpreted reality... yes, I put myself in this situation. But don't all women, when getting married and then subsequently pregnant, to a certain extent, leave themselves at the mercy of their husband, to provide for them, at a time when they are no longer able? But I did not leave myself in this situation. I found a way to provide for myself and my unborn child, in spite of being hospitalized 6 times in those last few months, having no job or income, and having no family to fall back on.

"And I wanted my h to meet my needs, not this om."
Would you consider that affairs are not as much about who you want to meet your ENs, but who you choose to allow to meet them? It wasn't so much about this OM meeting my emotional needs, it was about my purely practical, physical needs, like not being able to drive to the pharmacy for my prescription medication to build up the platelets in my blood, about taking me to the hospital when I'm hemorraging, about not being able to physically move my bed from the shed my husband left it in, up to my room, about not having any money to buy a crib or baby clothes or diapers, etc. My undying appreciation came from the feeling that my son and I both would have probly died that night I had him, if the OM had not been there to call an ambulance. (the surgeon said another 5 minutes and we would have lost the baby, and I was rapidly bleeding to death, so wouldn't have made it much longer)

"I called him whenever I was in the hospital (h), let him know how things were going with the baby, when I could drive I went by his apt to see him,"

See, here's where I perceive you owning your part well...and I would love to see you congratulate and acknowledge your power in your choice...his reactions did not dictate yours here...you chose. And you chose to inform, connect and continue, anyway. Not based on his caring or not, disconnecting himself or stopping his A. This is where I'd like you to focus, to know...you chose. You did. You don't make the outcome...you have no control...however, you define your results...which is you were aware of your choices and you chose from honor and respect.

"I never stopped my plan a, except for filing for divorce to protect my parental rights and then moving in with this man as a roommate when I was homeless and desperate for shelter for my children. He (om) never reciprocated my feelings and yes, I do realize now that what I thought was love was just extreme appreciation in an extreme situation. Am I now rationalizing? Because I do have a hard time swallowing that this was an EA."

You told another man you loved him...not your WH. Can you see how your WH's choices were the same...not about you...could be seen as desperation, you doing to him (though you weren't), no other choices...when there were several? This mindset is more clearly revealed in the light of an EA than in choosing to not see it as an EA.


Inappropriate is defined by you, for you, about you. I'm not saying you're wrong...I'm asking you to consider the formula for a wayward mindset...

Entitlement, fueled by resentment and lack of respect. You are right here in that I did feel I had the right to tell the OM that I loved him, because of all he had done for me and my children, all that my husband had chosen to not do, instead choosing to spend his time and money on beer, women, and his buddies. And yes, by this time, I was resentful, and had no respect for him. (h)

"so my fwh invites all these people over for a new years party."

Have you two been working on POJA? Delineating what is to be POJA'd and what doesn't need to be? Did he POJA with you to have a party, who to invite, who will do what, enthusiastically on both your parts?... I have been trying to follow this but he doesn't. I choose to not do anything without his enthusiastic agreement, which means I basically do NOTHING unless he specifically tells me to. If I even ask or suggest, it's an argument. He does whatever he wants without asking my opinion, and if I offer my opinion, it's met with anger.

"None of my friends btw, cuz the only people I know are from the shelter or the domestic violence classes I've taken."

Is this a DJ to him or to yourself, or both? Did he state, "I'm not inviting any of your friends because they are from the shelter or domestic violence classes"? Or do you assume? Or are you saying they aren't really your friends? That you don't want them intimately involved in your life, like a party, rather kept to where you go to grow and know, outside your home? ...They are my friends but he did actually say that, because what if his friends asked my friends how we know each other and they respond that we met in domestic violence classes, how would that make him look. That's him talking, not my assumption.

"So I wanted to fix up the house a little. I mean, it looks like a hotel,"

It looks like a hotel to you. May look homey to him. Here is another POJA issue...you want this to be your marital home...understanding what you want and what he may want is respect.... I didn't tell him I thought it looks like a hotel, I just said that I would like to have some of my things here, so it feels more like "our" place than just "his". Also that I really miss my kids and would like to have some of their pictures around instead of just pics of his kids.

"all this new furniture but no curtains, no pictures on the walls, no plants..."

So you're saying this is what feels homey to you...curtains, pictures, plants. Good to know. Not homey to everyone...homey to you. That's valid.

"just a few pics of Ted's boys on the mantel. So I figure I've lived here almost 2 months and haven't brought over much more than an overnight bag, maybe I should start actually kinda moving in."

And you decided this without discussing it with your husband. You decided. You chose. See where each of you are violating POJA through independent behavior, stemming from justification?... No, I did discuss it with him. I try and pick "good" times to discuss things like this, when he is in a good mood, etc. He responded several times with, of course, this is your home too, of course you can move your things in. But then his attitude suddenly changes when I do.


"OMG.. you should have seen the look on his face!!"

You DJ'd his look. You didn't ask for clarification or confirmation. You assumed. Asking would be honest: "I'm reading you, and I know that's a DJ. Would you please share what you're thinking/feeling right now, from my request?"
....I actually did ask and he responded with angrily stating that nothing was wrong.

If he stated, "I feel like this is my house. I fear you moving all of your stuff, yourself into what feels like my turf, my protection" would you be respectful and acknowledge that his truth, not the truth? Would you have felt such deep rejection and disownment? ... yes, I think I would have. Even though it is his truth, I feel that we've been married for years and even though he keeps telling me sporadically that this is my home, I'm not actually allowed to make any changes to it. His friend last night, said something about how mad it made him when his ex MIL used to come over and rearrange his kitchen and my h was like "uuh huh, see... he hates it too" because I had put some things in the cupboard that he used to have sitting on the counter. I am his wife.. when do I get to feel like I have some say in our life??? So yes, I would have still felt rejection.



"He started yelling at me, saying how he had plans to hang a picture of Chicago on that wall.."

Do you have boundaries with predetermined progressive enforcements in place for abuse? ... No, obviously, I do not. I'm not even sure how....Do you consider yelling to be abusive? Yes, I think it is abusive. ...Do you allow yourself to yell? I used to yell back, but now I just retreat and cry....

... You continue that...you do it as you reflect on his past choices and now, on his yelling, his facial gestures, his lack of inviting you to move your stuff in, and lack of compromising on changing the home. All on him...not you.

Don't you want to stop aiding in his abuse of you?... YES!!! Of course, I want this to stop, but I don't know how!!! Do I just ignore his anger,after aknowledging his feelings, then leave them as his and move on with my stuff??? Wouldn't you love to finally be free through respecting his stuff and knowing yours is your own, as well? Wouldn't you love to stop aiding in your abuse of you and him? Wouldn't you love to be free of it through respecting yourself, your stuff, and living IN truth, instead of stuck in searching for it?

So... HOW DO I DO THIS?????

"While waiting out the 72 hour hold, it started to dawn on me that this isn't all someone else's fault."

Can you see now where you first reach for blame, fault and that might get in your way of reality? I'm glad you got back within that 72-hour hold to considering your power. Good to know.

"That I let these people do these things,"

There is no "letting" to others' actions. Just reminding you of basic human truths...not bashing you. People do and don't do. You're people. Where your power remains is in response to what people do...takes the focus off trying to get them to NOT do to you and onto you when they do or don't do. Just you.

"and that I choose to see myself as not good enough, or else they would treat me better, right?"

How you view yourself will not determine how others treat you. How they act is beyond your control...how they perceive you, define you is theirs...their opinion. YOUR opinion of yourself determines all of your life, how you experience it--how you perceive comes from your own beliefs...not theirs. A byproduct of choosing to believe and act from your belief that you are equal to all others, just as whole, complete and marvelously made by God, is that others may view you in a new light. Don't make it your goal, or you'd be thwarting yourself, again.

"My first suicide attempt was while my first marriage was breaking up. My then in-laws had treated me very abusively and I always thought that if I "killed them with kindness" so to speak, they would eventually see that I was a good person and treat me accordingly."

Can you see the fatal flaw in this belief...that you can make others treat you differently? You do not have that power. No one on earth does. What you do have is the choice to define abuse and predetermine your progressive bounary enforcements. That's for you, by you. Not around them. Using kindness as a weapon is another clue to something very old in you. Respect isn't kind...it's honest. Acting instead of reacting feels very kind and respectful. It's being honest and true to ourselves. Many here think I write from kindness...I don't. My goal is to communicate from respect as my premise...I don't control others' perceptions and I certainly don't cause or cure their beliefs. They do that...for them.

Respect is not taking into yourself what is solely within others' domain...their stuff. Self-respect is knowing separate and equal and acting to your own code, not choosing your actions based on others' possible response.

"That never happened and after 11 years, I started to believe what they told me.."

You chose to believe what they told you. Just clarifying your power. There were many reasons you did this...goes hand in hand with you believing you control others' opinions...you don't. You only control your own. You define yourself. And that's really scary when we've lived our whole lives defining ourselves through others.

You had a bad counselor. It happens.

"ie.. that I'm nothing but white trash that their son pulled out of the gutter and gave a life, and that I'm a horrible wife and mother. The psychologist there said that he thought I was fine, not with major depression or anything, I just needed to get out of the toxic situation I was in."

He didn't show you step by step boundary enforcements, only the ultimate one? Could this have sync'd really well in you that removing yourself is the only answer? The ultimate one? And look what that advice did...didn't address the true issue...you and understanding boundaries and standards...by removing, you replaced...and came dead up against the same issue...again and again...and in this marriage, as well. Addressing the symptom does not cure the disease (dis-ease). Knowing your part, your power and limits does.

"In a way, I think that was right, in that I needed to realize that I couldn't continue to allow people to treat me that way and it not affect me."

Solid realization that you have a response to how others treat you...stepped way over all the tools you had in choosing your response. People affect each other. We do. We are vulnerable from birth until death, every moment in between. Building walls, withdrawal, running away, replacing does not protect us from being affected. Knowing we have control of how others influence us...we allow a narrow channel or a large one, and must stay conscious of our choice, is imperative. We have no control...we have influence...only to the degree others' allow...and what we allow in ourselves.

Powerful human you are, Tracy. Hugely powerful.

"But I also needed to realize that it was and is me to the extent that I choose to remain in situations like this and not enforce my boundaries of what kinds of treatment I will accept."

When you think all or nothing, in or out, please know this isn't reasonable adult perspective at work...it's our inner children. Consider, your participation by being in a situation...are you all in, partially in, lovingly detached and physically present? Lots of inbetweens to consider...middle ground...most realistic...not in or out.


Get "Boundaries" or "Boundaries in Marriage" by Cloud and Townsend...learn about how we create them, where we draw them, how we enforce them and all this middle ground of adult human power and limits.

When I suggested Alanon, this was key to my getting my control freakishness (where I couldn't see reality for my fantasy control), respecting others and myself, and getting those 12 steps to self-ownership in place for life. Awesome program...I was addicted to control. Just not of myself.

LOL

When you choose to read a book, go to a meeting, see a counselor, listen and be present in life...these are acts of self-care, self-love...which aides your new belief you are not defective, a failure, inferior...takes actions to help implement new beliefs...and awareness to see how much you do care for yourself...so that life isn't about removing others or removing yourself...can you see where suicide symbolizes this?

Why did you leave out of your original post that you both had POJA'd moving some stuff in? You stated you'd decided...I'm not telling you you're wrong or deceptive...just highlighting this as a way to see better into your own motives, your authentic self...not your self-image.

Your H hasn't understood the powerful benefit of POJA yet...nor have you. When you commit yourself to POJA, you are saying that you will take no action which your H is not enthusiastic about concerning your marriage, your marital home, etc. The care of POJA would mean, this is a process...first, POJAing the symbol of moving stuff in...then the execution of it would be POJA'd also. For instance, POJAing him coming with you to your place to pick out stuff...like the comforter, pictures, etc...to consider what he's enthusiastic about having and what he isn't. Same for you...helps you discern your own symbols and priorities...not you going to get and bringing into...then POJAing...widens up the possibilities of brainstorming...such as, with the comforter...at your place...he could have said, "I'm not thrilled with that one...but I like this one." Or even after the moving in stuff after going with you to pick and choose..."Well, now that I see that there, I think I'd like the other thing there. How do you feel about that?" And the other thing might not have been chosen to be moved in in the first place.

POJA is about demonstrated equality, care and acknowledgment. Not a power struggle.

Requires radical honesty, sharing, brainstorming and is active consideration and respect. It isn't an event...it's a process.

You're seeing his choices as caused by you...crowding...he felt it (going from one in the house to 9 is huge), doesn't mean you're causing it. You can choose to see him as sharing, this is what I feel right now and respect that is his...or you can choose to see yourself as causing it, and his resulting choice to distance, push away, etc. Matters greatly to what you truly own and what you're taking that isn't yours.

O&H statements are two way streets...yes, honestly sharing yours...using "I" statements. Sharing your stuff...fears, feelings, beliefs, perceptions...all yours. The more you do this from your choice to live honestly, the more you'll hear his stuff as his...great two-way streets we have in God's design of humans.

As long as you believe you can control outcomes...the evening...his response...the more you feed your obsession with fantasy. You negate your own half, just half...by taking the whole. Stop. He says and does...you have no control. You say and do...you have total control. When you don't live up to your code, you amend...and let the outcome go...it is what it is...stop seeing yourself as almighty...causing, controlling and curing what you have no power to do...

In your previous post, you justified...know when you do this as a signal you're in fantasy, 'k? You went down to the couch when he was sleeping and woke him up at 1am and said, "Are you coming to bed?" To own your actions and choices, know your desires...you wanted him to be in bed, sleeping next to you. He said in MC it was okay to ask. Change that in yourself...into an "I" statement. When you woke him up, not because he permitted you, but because you permitted you, and say "I miss you in our bed. I would love it if you'd come upstairs." If that is your truth, state it. No asking. Openness. Honesty. Then let go the response. When you do...you will not take it as rejection if he doesn't (you don't know why he is choosing until he shares that with you), and you will feel whole, complete, enough because you did that for yourself...you knew and shared.

Not dependent on response.

To your own code.

Part of reactivity is taking actions as statements. They aren't. You going to the computer instead of returning to the basement was an action, not a statement. Good to accompany actions with statements...returning to the basement and stating your choice "I finished cleaning up and would like to be on MB right now. I know you'll let me know if you need or want anything. I enjoyed our dinner. I miss having alone time with you, H, somewhat. Then again, I like alone time with myself, too."

Simple, honest and direct...not easy to do after a lifetime of reactivity...know this is choosing to act, not react.

About your tapes, also known as self-talk...refuting them tells self it's okay to refute others...those tapes are constant...first step is to be aware of them...and within awareness is acknowledgment...not approval. I found after becoming aware to hear, I could nod my head, like blessing them, and sending them on their way. Within refutation, there is validation...when you argue, you make the others' argument fact when you refute. I find awareness and acknowledgement to be more effective for me because then I'm not reinforcing my tapes as fact...just that they exist...no approval/disapproval invovled. Not what I want.

And I replaced those tapes, over time through awareness...telling myself MY truth..."I am" basic truth. I exist. That was huge. "I am a creation of God." Not judging inadequacy; embracing wholeness. "I am human" instead of "I'm not enough." And I would talk to my inner child, "I love you LA. How are you feeling?" Interest in self, concern and care...my tapes have stopped--gone from a consistent flood to a an occasional drip. I acknowledged those tapes had healthy intent in an unhealthy way...I identified the voice of my FOO in those tapes, not from me...and used them to identify old beliefs. They helped me...not my enemy...not my guide.

I honor your truth that you did not have an EA. You know the anatomy of such a choice intimately...and I believe you respect others' opinions as their own, not The Truth, as well.

Taking people at their word doesn't match you understanding their meaning. Listen and repeat for clarity...notice your assumptions (choosing to believe he was groucy, your judgment, not The Truth) to know when you think you're clear by ascribing motive and feelings, instead of being clear through words.

I use this way, "I just jumped to my old assumptions, H. I thought, 'He's being grouchy' and felt rejection. Would you help me be clear on what you mean and what you're feeling right now?" That's before I remove he comforter or decide what I'm going to choose to do...clarity before action.

Even with the coming to bed..."I hear you saying you see me as doing whatever I want to do and you feel I'm giving you crap rather than inviting you to bed, is that correct?" Tough to do from sleep...changes whether or not you cry yourself to sleep...which matters greatly. He may feel pressured...doesn't mean you are pressuring him. He may feel he's being attacked, judged...doesn't mean you're doing it. Your part is to know what your true motives are, remove judgment from yourself and your marriage (gets tossed out with blame and fault), so you can hear what his stuff is separate from you.

Your responsibility to know why you feel devastated...and why you chose to DJ him by defining him as angry and cold...when the truth is...you perceive him to be angry and cold...you feel cold from distance...and you might be surprised for all these feelings to change as you choose to perceive from separate truths instead of the truth.

"But don't all women,"

Stop right there and answer this question...how does comparing yourself to all women aid you in seeing your part in your life? Your own power?

"when getting married and then subsequently pregnant, to a certain extent, leave themselves at the mercy of their husband,"

You're talking to a woman who got pregnant on purpose, no marriage, because she thought she could create love that would last from a child. She had two kids out of wedlock. I didn't see myself at the mercy of a husband...I feared having a husband to be accountable to...I went for the fantasy shortcut.

"to provide for them, at a time when they are no longer able?"

I worked through my self labor for ten hours...delivered the kid and took the kid back to work with me. I was able. We are able. We choose to share our children, in their creation, meeting their needs...by choice. No have to's or oughts.

"But I did not leave myself in this situation. I found a way to provide for myself and my unborn child, in spite of being hospitalized 6 times in those last few months, having no job or income, and having no family to fall back on."

I was homeless for two years after having my first child out of wedlock. I know. I remember. What I'm trying to show you is half...not all. Your half. In your posts you were seeing it all dependent on WH...others...which negates your part and your power. I can't believe you had no one to fall back on...because you had six other kids...while you were in the hospital...who took care of them? Did they? So you fell back on your family. Friends? People on MB? See where you have resources...I hear a lot of nothing, all aloneness in your posts. Get both hands on reality...strangers are humans...they aid...they support...even with a smile across a parking lot...they contribute...we contribute...we are not alone. You do your part...you did and will continue to do your part...I'm asking you to be aware, break your cemented assumptions and see your life with new eyes...you're back from the dead...be new. See others as knew.

When you dwell in shoulds and shouldn'ts...you create, nuture and grow resentment...this has been the corrosive choice in your life. I'm asking you to see what is...without shoulds. He did and didn't. You did and didn't. Not for blame or evidence of love or no love. What was, what is...so you can have clarity.

About OM calling for an ambulance...I'm not debating or refuting you. I am saying look to alternatives...you calling the ambulance, your oldest...all were possibilities...not right or wrong. Your roommate was being human...the more you compare and see him as rescuer, the more you tell self you're not enough, defective, powerless, helpless. That's where I'm going here. Your own self-talk...not tapes.

"I have been trying to follow this but he doesn't. I choose to not do anything without his enthusiastic agreement, which means I basically do NOTHING unless he specifically tells me to. If I even ask or suggest, it's an argument. He does whatever he wants without asking my opinion, and if I offer my opinion, it's met with anger."

You choosing to basically do NOTHING isn't following POJA at all. You aren't enthusiastic about choosing to do nothing unless he specifically tells you to...you're stopping the process right there.

Get out of your own way...learn to ask, listen and repeat...share...and know...before you hold everything to POJA. You are enmeshed in others...POJA can be easily sucked into that enmeshment and distorted. Get clear on your choice to believe you control what you humanly cannot first..then move to POJA. I suggested it for the mutual stuff...like moving stuff in...as practice. Took me two years to get to POJA with my DH. Not essential for personal or marital recovery at first. Essential for working on the marriage and demonstrating mutual respect.

Can you see where you predicated your choice to POJA on his response? Which was his refusal? How healthy is that? That's the bigger picture I'm hoping you'll see...each time you choose to act or not act based on possible response, you betray yourself. You harm and maim yourself. Stop. Please. Choose from your own code. Then you can enforce your boundaries.

About your friends and his self-image. Your choice wasn't limited to inviting your friends or not...it was also in having the party in the first place. "I hear you don't want our friends to mix because of how they came into my life and how you might be perceived. I am not enthusiastic about having this party with only your friends, because I fear how they perceive me, as well."

This is discussion...not refutation. Sharing, not controlling. You opening your mouth is tough...I understand...if you're the cause, control and cure, that's a heavy mantle...full of fear of mis-step and mis-stating...owning all that stuff. See more possibilities...having two parties, at different places...one with your friends, one with his...domestive violence isn't one sided...it takes two...perception of him and of you is involved...not all one way or another. What you believe of each other is vastly more important, isn't it? It's immediate...right now...exists whether you're talking about it or not.

I'm not looking to stop incidents of rejection, pain and fear from happening to you...I'm looking for your power within your response, your own width of perception and perspective...to free yourself to live larger, in real freedom, responsibility and love. Which is where I believe you ache to be.

I'm not saying you did all this wrong...I'm asking you to see where your choices could be different...not to get a different outcome...neither of us control that...only your internal result to be seated in reality, not all this fantasy stuff.

This refuting thing is really getting to me...I'm flashing back to my old mindset, triggering here.

"I didn't tell him I thought it looks like a hotel, I just said that I would like to have some of my things here, so it feels more like "our" place than just "his". Also that I really miss my kids and would like to have some of their pictures around instead of just pics of his kids."

You thought it looked like a hotel and you didn't share that belief, correct? Instead you stated, as if it was fact, not opinion, that your marital home felt more like his place than "ours." "I" statements "I feel like I'm in a hotel, not my home. I see this place as yours, where I'm an outsider or visitor. I want to change my perception. I want to add in my stuff, too. I see my kids separate from your kids. That's how I think. I want to see all of them as our kids. I'm guessing pictures up on the walls would help me in changing my perspective. I know I miss them a lot. What do you think?"


"No, I did discuss it with him. I try and pick "good" times to discuss things like this, when he is in a good mood, etc."

Very manipulative and full of self-betrayal. You managing others' emotions...the very weight of it...isn't it suffocating? You creating your own eggshells from fear. Stomp them, Tracy. Try it.

"He responded several times with, of course, this is your home too, of course you can move your things in. But then his attitude suddenly changes when I do."

His attitude or your interpretation of his attitude. Can you feel the engulfing weight and that he feels it too? If you aren't mindful of your own power and limits, then that means you require HIM to be...and he's overwhelmed, too. What you do to yourself, you do to others. His mood determines your tears, reactions...he's the cause, control and cure...please...know this to be enmeshment...disrespectful and full of fantasy. When you get it set in your own mind of where you end and he begins...your burden will lighten, perception sharpen...stop putting you onto him and vice versa. He's not responsible for you...he's responsible for him.

"....I actually did ask and he responded with angrily stating that nothing was wrong."

Again, you leave out all the stuff you do..the important stuff...and then say, "I did that!" without having told me. I'm seeing a pattern. Is it that your focus is so onto him, his stuff, you leave out what you do and say first? Then clean up afterward? I feel entrapped by your descriptions...like a set up. Is this really happening? If you're doing all this, why are your words not describing what you're doing?

"I believe nothing is wrong with you, H. I'm asking what you're feeling right now...not if it's right or wrong."

"yes, I think I would have. Even though it is his truth, I feel that we've been married for years and even though he keeps telling me sporadically that this is my home, I'm not actually allowed to make any changes to it."

Oh, Tracy...you feel like you've been married for years and you haven't. Reality is, this is what, your third year or second? First? What benefit do you derive in yourself for choosing to believe this? To hold him to high requirements and yourself...how is that truly benefitting your relationship?

Because you choose to see him as granting or revoking permissions, you don't see your own.

"His friend last night, said something about how mad it made him when his ex MIL used to come over and rearrange his kitchen and my h was like "uuh huh, see... he hates it too" because I had put some things in the cupboard that he used to have sitting on the counter. I am his wife.. when do I get to feel like I have some say in our life??? So yes, I would have still felt rejection."

You are back to neck-deep in entitlement. What does that signal?

"when do I get to feel like I have some say in our life??? So yes, I would have still felt rejection."

When you choose to realize you have say, inherently, in being human. Up to you to speak...to share...and to perceive rejection, reach for it and swallow it to make a big pot of resentment to keep you locked into the same life you've been experiencing...all your life. Not him. You.

"YES!!! Of course, I want this to stop, but I don't know how!!!"

Yes, you do. You stop first. You stop with the DJs, the focus on him, not yourself. You develop and hold yourself to your code, acting from it...and make those same things in your code your boundaries...and hold to them. You educate yourself on boundaries and standards. You increase your awareness...by committing to be aware not to judge...and you own your own stuff.

"Do I just ignore his anger,after aknowledging his feelings, then leave them as his and move on with my stuff???"

Ignore? How is acknowledging ignoring? Look at your thoughts here...his anger is HIS...he can feel anger when he perceives threat, crossing his boundaries (we have them whether we consciously are aware or not...very dangerous and reactive)...when he feels judged, defined. Many other reasons...all his. You felt this way with your mother's anger, your fathers, siblings, boyfriends, friends, husbands...this is about you and what anger is...more you understand it in yourself, the better you can accept others' emotions as theirs.

Key to emotions...they are signals...they are from us, about us, from our beliefs. They are our own. Getting the signal...tracing it to the belief, acknowledges and validates it...and the signal stops. Message delivered. Get your signals.

"So... HOW DO I DO THIS?????"

Step by step...self-education and discovery...using all the resources God provides...and there is a lot...being gentle...asking inwardly to know, not judge...being patient, kind and loving to yourself through self focus and taking your focus off of him...changing your belief in blame/fault to ownership...seeking first to understand, then be understood. See when you are reacting instead of acting...comes with the awareness...and where you are making him your control in your mind, going into fantasy, rather than reality.

I did it this way...I know all humans are capable, whole, complete. I live from that belief. There is nothing defective in you at all...God never made no junk...I believe in you. I'm here with you because of my belief. It doesn't stop. The stretch of my aid may stop. My belief in you being equal to me remains.

You've had a lot of people support and love you in your life...make a gratitude list to see your reality, your history...to help you choose a healthy, true perspective today. When you change, everything changes. I promise.

If you are honestly not refuting my suggestions and beliefs, and you feel open and a lot of resonation inside your chest...because you already know all this stuff you're gonna educate yourself with...then I will remind myself you are not refuting. I used to say "No" so rarely to anyone...and I was saying it all the time in my head...passive aggressive...agreeing on the surface to be acceptable and then not doing what it was I committed to doing underneath...I loved resentment more than humans...believed it never let me down...while it destroyed so much in my life.

LA

I don't mean to explain things incompletely as a way to entrap you. I have somewhat limited time on the computer due to many children, responsibilities and the fact that h gets angry with me when he catches me on here. So I guess in a way, I'm not POJA ing just by being on MB. But anyways, I'm also not refuting what you say. I'm trying to think through and digest what you're telling by talking through it, so to speak.

The only things I specifically have time to address for the moment are this:

I was not able to call the ambulence, since I was not within reach of a phone, in hard labor and hemoragging badly. I couldn't get out of bed, and just layed there and yelled until my roommate finally heard me. The kids slept through it all, as it was almost 3 am.

I had called my h before going to bed that night saying I didn't feel well and asked if he would take me to the hospital but he was angry with me for calling earlier in the day to see if he could move a camper trailer that he had left in the street in front of my house earlier, because the city had left a notice on my door that the street were being paved the next day and anything left parked there would be towed. He thought I was making that up and we had fought for an hour or so before he came and moved it. So when I called later saying I felt bad, he thought I was making that up too, to ruin what was left of his evening.

I'll write more when I can. I'm afraid of him catching me on here. Please don;t stop writing me!!! I am listening and trying to learn!!!!!