My husband's analogy on MEN: (in some cases) Men are visual and women need to understand that. It's like driving by Salt Grass steak house and you smell the steak. It makes you want to go home and cook some. You don't necessarily want their's because what you have at home is better. (seems benign enough) keep going...

We women are forced to understand that men are "visual". Well, men, let me present a scenario to help you understand why women have a hard time with this.

This is a little long... but if you hang with me, I think you men might can grasp the woman's perspective. It may seem foriegn to you, just as your visual needs are to us.

Our bodies are our "gift" to you. Yes... GIFT.

Let's present a husband that stops by a corner shop every Friday to pick up roses for his wife. The shop owner knew the man as a boy, and readily gives him 6 roses every Friday to take home to his bride. They are not the prettiest roses, but they come from the heart. Kids are born... household demands are overwhelming and wife starts to need a little more pick-me-up through the week. One Wednesday husband walks in and finds a dozen beautiful peach roses on the counter. Card is signed with some kind of coding that the husband doesn't understand. Husband asks his wife about it, and she tells him that it's nothing... just some roses. Well, I am certain he will be asking more questions about who and why. Monday and Tuesday were rough for her... and she certainly knew he didn't want to go buy some... and loving him the way she does, she didn't want to bother her husband for them. So, she got them from an undisclosed source that means nothing to her.... but they made her feel good. On Friday, the husband stopped off at the store to pick up the 6 roses for his wife. He noticed that his roses are not nearly as beautiful as the ones she just received, but he cannot afford much more than the gas it takes for him to go by the old man's shop. The husband takes the roses home and offers them to her. She tells him how beautiful they are and how special they are. He looks at them sitting next to the ones she received earlier that week. The roses he brought home are a little wilted on the edges and not as vibrant. Suddenly he feels an array of emotions. Sad, jealous, angry.... However his wife doesn't understand this. WHY? It's just roses... they don't mean as much as his flowers.

The next week comes, and on Tuesday, he sees another new dozen roses. Now, this really makes him feel upset. The husband wonders what is going on. His wife tells him again that they just help her get through the week when there is a lot of stress. Suddenly, he starts to wonder if he should keep going to the shop to get her his "gift". Afterall, the blossoms he has given her have never been that beautiful and they don't seem to carry her through her stressful week.

Now, if the wife keeps getting these roses, and the deliveries are say up to twice a week.... How much motivation is left in the husband to return every Friday with his partially wilted 6 roses? He may even try a variety of things to one up the rose deliveries, but she's not paying for the roses, so she doesn't see the need to stop them from coming. They are harmless..... or are they?

A GIFT. My body is my gift to him. Yes, I begin to not want to give it when there are so many better ones out there. He can tell me all he wants that mine is the best, but I am a little wilted and my color is not so bright. I am not blind, I can see that I am. After a while, I don't feel I measure up.

This is what my husband's porn usage was doing to me.

I have to say thank you for that it explains it all. So well put . This should be posted on every site here put I do not know how to copy and paste.

Beautiful story. I understand what you are trying to communicate. You really feel awful when your H uses porn.

But let me pen a couple of points.
(1) You write: “A GIFT. My body is my gift to him.” Sorry, but this makes me puke. Although I worship my wife, and cannot imagine a more perfect spouse, if she ever said something so condescending as this, we’d have a problem. I do not think that I’d want to sleep with her until she changed her attitude. SF is not about a woman doing a favor for a man; it is about enjoying each other.

If SF is a man’s highest need and affection is woman’s (according to HNHN, if I remember correctly), how would you respond to a man who’d write: “A GIFT. My signs of affection to her as my gift to her.”?


(2) The dozen roses that the woman in the story bought for herself are not real roses, but only a picture of perfect roses. Yes, photographers select the most ideal shots of roses to shoot; it makes no sense to shoot just average roses. Why do that?


(3) If the man in your story sees his W happy with roses, be it real ones from him or pictures of roses that she obtained for herself, why would he feel slighted? On the contrary; he should be happy that his mate is able to provide the needs for roses for herself that would be difficult for him to provide.


(4) Should the man in the story freak out, and start demanding that she stop looking at pictures of roses because she likes roses? Let’s see what the rose-liking wife can do:

(a) although she really likes roses, especially real ones, he can make her go without roses, be they real or pictures thereof, until he gets around delivering them to her. Her level of not being able to see, smell, or touch roses, is frustrating. She needs roses. She simply loves roses. But nonetheless, he is insecure and so he demands that she stop looking at pictures at roses, stop deriving pleasure at looking at pictures of roses in gardening magazines or on TV, even though they are a poor substitute for real roses (no smell, no texture, etc.).

(b) Or he gives in to her craving for roses. He goes out of his way to the store every day, or every other day to buy his wife roses. His pocketbook suffers due to the expense of buying roses. He has to dedicate more time to it from his already full schedule. His ego is crushed because what used to be a nice thing for him to do for his wife turned into a chore for him. He begins to resent having to buy roses just so that her craving for roses be satisfied.

(c) Or he can deliver the roses every Friday as usual, be happy to give it to her, and be happy that she has pictures of roses to pick her up the rest of the week. She’ll be happy. He’ll be happy that she is content.

Which do you think that the couple will agree on? Her being frustrated with the very few roses in her life, or him being frustrated that she is forcing him to buy roses all the time, or him delivering roses as he is comfortable and she be comfortable in posting and looking at pictures of roses in the kitchen to get through the week?

This comment saddens me in so many ways.

I have offered this from the depth of my soul. This may not apply to all women, but those of us that are hurt by porn, I feel may share this same perspective.

I am sure you have heard many times that "a part of me dies". This is no joke... not just a phrase. Literally, a part dies... an emotional part dies.

I am another willing and able wife. I don't think my husband has ever been rejected by me and he says that I am everything, parts, beauty and person that he ever wanted or wants.

Now, since the usage of porn, although my logical side says, men do this, the emotional storm in me cannot seem to deal with it. It's as if the logical side cannot get the emotional side to come to terms with it. I feel this is the same for other women, those that want to be okay with it. It's not that we want to deprive our husbands of anything. We simply hurt so bad and cannot seem to find the answer to stop the pain. I want it to stop, the pain that is. So, the only thing my emotional side can do is begin to shut down some. Once shutting down, I can be his sexual partner and fulfill his needs and have a great time, but it is without that "amazing" emotion I once had.

I can see your perspective. I don't think that all women are like me. I do feel that those of us that are overwhelmed by the pain from porn probably share my perspective. You probably see a lot of us on here because we are trying to find a way to make it better... to find a way to make the pain stop... to find a way to be okay with it.

Some women are simply hardwired a little tighter in the emotional department. Kind of like the little boy in the karate class that cries all the time. Some may call him a wuss... the fact is, he is simply hardwired a little differently. He will forever be changed once the instructor toughens him up, if he can stick it out in the class long enough. Yes, a part of him will be lost, but if that is what is needed, then I guess that is what has to happen, unless he quits.

So you see, if I need to be okay with porn, I guess I will be, but don't think something won't be lost in there. I will have to choke down the tears, push my emotions back just as the boy has to.



edited because I am a punctuation disaster.

Shannee,
I think it was beautifully, intelligently, and honestly put.
In my simplest opinion, Men do not understand that some womens feelings towards porn simply feels as strong as if the porn was another woman. It can be that painfull, and any man who deeply cares for his wife needs to understand this (whether he thinks it overreaction or not) and the way it makes a wife feel can be part of the whole foundation for the marriage, a big ole crack in the foundation, and building the marriage on a cracked foundation means all the other aspects of the marriage will be unstable. Have all the people defending porn on this sight read * The Policy of Joint Agreement ? A wife is not trying to be a b*#$% and take away your fun/outlet/need (what ever you feel it is) just for the fun of it, the emotion runs that deep. I don't think any woman who feels so stongly about porn can come to accept it if it runs that deep with her, it would be similar to asking the husband if she could have a boyfriend on the weekend.

And buy the way.. the "GIFT" thing, the whole marriage is a gift, the gift you give each other, yes including a womans body, yes including his affection,....etc
TD

P.S.
I also think porn is an addiction, if you read the info on this sight about alcoholism and replace alcohol with porn, In my humble opion, its just as applicable. When you love someone why would you wan to continue to do something that causes them so much pain, and quite frankly screw around with their self-esteem, why would you want to make the one you love feel that way? Because its as powerful as Alcohol, you want/need it that bad you are willing to sacrafice your wifes feelings, esteem, self worth, self image, morals, sex drive/comfort, whatever it is that causes her pain (right wrong or indifferent, it doesn't matter it still causes her pain), and if you cant POJA about this than its addiction, because otherwise you would give it up for the love of your wife/marriage. Instead of thinking your wife "doesn't get it" or "she's too sensitive" or "its her problem (self esteem/inferiority or otherwise) it makes her feel that way" look at your self and ask why its so important to you, like alcoholism, you are not in control of the porn, it is controling you.

This is not dirrected at anyone in particular here, just ALL the many many posts on this sight that I have read pertaining to porn.

Just my little opinion of course. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

TD

Shannee-Thank-you for putting my exact feelings into such perfect words. I do not wish to control my H, but I also do not know how, or even if I want, to be okay with it. As Tredding said, it feels like I have to share him with another woman. The emotion runs very deep.

Gifts are what we give to someone that we love to show we care. I do not feel that my H MUST give me affection, that would make it an obligation, a duty.

that is a very good opinion, tredding.
you are very correct. i have lived it.
porn is not an addiction for everyone but your analogy to alcholoics is right on.
compulsive masturbation turned out to be my H's (from a very alcoholic family) drink of choice....often aided by porn or whatever.
he was ashamed of it and couldn't talk about it and lied to me and himself about it all the time.
bottom line was exactly what you said....and all the experts will the same thing.
IF they act defensively or dismissivley toward your concerns ...that's a sign of addictive behaviour a big RED FLAG that there is a deeper problem w/ that person.

Average Guy,
i am not sure how you wife feels about your porn use or if she has ever made any request of you reguarding it (don't remember reading that)but, i hope you wouldn't react to her the way you did to shanees analogy.

Yeah, now that I re-read my answer to her post, it was a bit harsh. Maybe I should have used a different tone to answer her post.

BTW, my wonderful W is supportive of my use of it (sometimes we use it together), since she knows that my sexual drive is stronger then hers. I really appreciate her that she is so secure and open to it.

glad to hear that you are honest and open about it and your wife is fine with it.
i know plenty of couples who have arrangements like yours.
glad it works for you.

I'd never do anything that my wife strongly objects to. Not because I think that she is right, but because of my respect for her feelings.

And no, I would not do things that my W strongly objects to even if she would never ever find out. Although I could hide my actions from my wife, I could not hide them from myself. I could not look myself into a mirror and see an honest person. Doing something that my spouse strongly objects to is simply wrong.

that's good.
i think the fact that you would never do that may be why it is difficult for you to understand the pain these women feel when their husband choose to either blatantly dismiss their concerns or yes them to death and then do as they please anyway.