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Each party should contribute to the support of the child, period. I will be an amount based on the income of each party, but it should always be something. In my case, I got custody of my 15yo daughter and 18yo son. The son doesn't figure in since he is of age, but my wife was determined that she shouldn't pay anything since I "make all the money". In the end, I agreed to no CS from her since to get it would have meant going to trial, and it would have cost about what I would get over the next couple of years in lawyers fees. Sometimes principle takes a back seat to fiscal realities. I also wanted a negotiated settlement so I could pay her off in lump sum alimony instead of permanent alimony (divorce herpes). She is supposed to pay half of my daughters medical expenses and cost of insurance. At the last minute, she wanted to limit that to $15 a month. $15 A MONTH! That's the sum total of what she was willing to contribute towards raising her daughter. (if it had gone to trial, she would be paying about $180) This is the same woman who claimed that her children were the most important thing to her. Bear in mind, she walked away with $170,000 in cash. (we sold the house) My daughter told me last week that if I gave her some money, her mother would take her shopping for bras. Ummm, no, if I'm paying, I'll take you.

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"Each party should contribute to the support of the child, period."

I disagree. I gave up my education so he can complete his. Although I did not have an education, I had a decent paying job which I also gave up to be a stay at home Mom. This decision was very important to us. I took care of the household so EX can focus on his career. He even went back to school for his MBA. After he received his MBA, he started his A and said he found his soul mate, and I'm out. So you bet he better PAY CS!

"I also wanted a negotiated settlement so I could pay her off in lump sum alimony instead of permanent alimony (divorce herpes)."

I put in 20 years of hard work in my marriage. During my last 10 years I gave him 4 kids and stayed home to care our 5 kids, clean, do laundry, drive to activities, cook, pay bills, play hostess for his clients and coworkers, take care of all the outside work in the yard, arrange for family vacations, host holiday dinners for his family, and help him with occasional paper work for his business. I did this and did not receive any monthly pay checks. "Divorce Herpes?" call it what you will, but I deserve alimony, and as I see it, it's my severance pay.

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Does everyone who receives child support believe that the payer would not contribute toward the upbringing of the child(ren) if not forced to?

I believe there may be some parents who would contribute, but to be on the safe side I think it needs to be a legal obligation. Heck, in my case I was dumb and let my ex off without having his wages garnished. Instead he's supposed to write a check once a week when he gets paid, mail it to the Clerk of Court, and they log it in the system and forward it to me. Well, if he and chicky-babe are a little short on funds (like when he had to furnish the house they bought with a big screen TV, or when they've gone here or there, or needed another vehicle, or like now when his year-end bonus wasn't what he'd hoped) they just don't pay. They drag things out for weeks and sometimes months. They don't return calls.

He's legally also required to split my DD's medical and dental bills 50/50, but has refused from day one to do that. I could take him to court, but the cost of that including an attorney would pretty much wipe out any money he owes, so he's off the hook there. I also carry the health insurance on the kids.

Yes, I make more than he does. That reduced the amount he was required to pay for support, but I don't think that should let him off the hook when it comes to supporting his biological child. Frankly I believe that because he's refused to try and foster any kind of relationship with her and has seen her only 2-3 times in the last year, he should pay more, because he's had absolutely zero cost when it came to her, unlike most NCP who have their kids for weekends and weeknights on a regular basis, and do incur costs.

But that's just my 2 cents!

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IMM,
Since the focus of this thread is CS, I won't shift the discussion over to alimony. They are very different subjects.

I stand by my statement that each party should contribute to the financial needs of the child. For instance, if your ex had primary custody does that relieve you of any financial responsibility for the child? I say no. Even if your ex makes 10 times what you do, you should still contribute something. In my state it's figured via a formula and it's pretty cut an dried. In that scenario you wouldn't pay much, but it wouldn't be zero. You are both responsible for raising that child; financially, emotionally, and physically.


The real problem with CS is that you have no control over how the money is used. Too many times it is not used for the benefit of the child.

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IMM,
The real problem with CS is that you have no control over how the money is used. Too many times it is not used for the benefit of the child.

See, I don't understand statements like this. During the marriage, the parent was responsible enough to spend the money wisely on the child but afterwards they are not?

My children are a priority for me, period. Whether I'm married to their father or not.

My exhusband says this to me, although for the last five years of our marriage I never spent a penny on myself, only the kids but now suddenly I'm going to mismanage his CS. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

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Coach,
Good for you. My comment was not meant to be a blanket statement and I applaud your devotion to your children. No offense intended. Those who put the best interests of their children ahead of their own cannot fathom the selfish behavior of other parents who look at CS as just another source of income. I have seen situations where the custodial parent was buying what most people would consider luxury items while the child was practically shoeless. Well, actually I lived next door to such a person, so I'm a bit sensitive to that.

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Yes, I can totally understand that. It's just amazing to me that this is a man I was married to for 13 years. He KNOWS I always sacrificed my needs for my children and for him yet all of a sudden I left him and I'm going to spend his CS on things for myself instead of the kids!

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Drummer,

The way I take care of my kids have not changed at all ever since my divorce. I am still the same mom, nothing have changed here. My kids are still my first priority. If I did not receive CS, they would probably be in rags. Unfortunately EX spends more money on OW and her children, than his own children. EX is doing the minimal amount he can get away with when it comes to his children, very sad, especially to his own flesh and blood!

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Child support is such a small percentage of the NCP's income that it could hardly be used as a source of disposable income, unless the NCP were earning something like a quarter of a million a year.The child support I received for SIX kids would pay for a little more than a third of my mortgage - leaving two thirds of the mortgage on a tiny three bedroom ranch, the food bill, clothing, education, extracurricular activities, medical expenses, transportation, and college to be paid for out of my income. It is all about control - their father even complained about the fact that he thought I shouldn't be spending MY money (because he did not pay a cent of it) on contact lenses, while freely admitting that our child would probably see better with them. He actually said that he didn't think I should be spending my money that way - not claiming that it was "his" money.

Nellie2 #1567642 02/01/06 05:52 PM
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Really? Child support by formula for me would have been $425 per week for two children (he makes $80K or so, gross). Not so small a % - its more than a 1/3 of his take home.

I make decent money, so we essentially split all "kid" expenses. We do have an amount of $250 per week spelled out in the divorce papers - in case he becomes a jerk.


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In my state, if the CP earned $50,000 and the NCP earned $80,000, the child support for six children would be much less than that. For that matter, why do you consider one-third of his take home to be a lot of child support - wouldn't he have spent more than that if he were still at home? We spent at least 75% of my husband's income on the kids: 75% of the groceries, and close to 100% of activities/entertainment/clothing/education. Other than commuting expenses, a few hundred dollars a year for clothing, and fifty dollars a week or so for lunch and incidentals (and I don't spend nearly that much), what else would a parent need to spend specifically on him or herself? Once the NCP leaves, he still gets to split rent/mortgage/utilities with the OW (or in my H's case, she pays all of that), while the CP has to pay those expensive items alone.

Nellie2 #1567644 02/02/06 08:36 AM
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No I'm just saying, what I "would" have received would have covered my entire mortgage and taxes, and a lot more. I probably couldn't live off it entirely - but with a part-time job? Yes quite comfortably.


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I think CS has to be mandatory, otherwise we go back to the system where the parent who can provide financial support gets the custody.

Here's what I feel about paying CS voluntarily. I know that CS is really just an income transfer for household support, it cannot all be strictly allocated to kids clothes, kids meals, and so forth. That's fine, so long as it's just the theory behind a mandated payment by the state guidelines. But I could not work something out like that with my ex. The dishonesty she displayed in serial affairs spills into every part of her life, including money. She deliberately over-stated her child care expenses to increase her CS. I just can't see working through receipts and budgets with her on a basis of trust; that's what married people do. She had my replacement lined up, and for whatever reason it did not work out. But I would not pay her any money that I didn't have to.

Regarding the custody situation, I have about 1/3 overnights and would try to get more if I thought it was feasible through the courts. It has absolutely nothing to do with CS. I believe I'm the better parent.

Here's another wrinkle, she insisted that the settlement agreement state that she is not responsible for any college expenses, even though neither divorced parent can be required to pay for college in our state. So whatever I pay her in CS is not available for college. She makes the decisions on what CS is spent on. I would rather do that.

For me it's easier to have the CS be a standard calculation, and withheld from my paycheck just like another tax. There is no more stigma in that, than there was in getting divorced or being a cuckold.

Of course there are exceptions, people who can work it out, but maybe those are a minority. And they can still work within the system, at least in my state. They can always go tell the hearing officer they've agreed on an amount, and that gets plugged into the boilerplate support order.

tmmx #1567646 02/02/06 10:46 AM
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But I could not work something out like that with my ex. The dishonesty she displayed in serial affairs spills into every part of her life, including money. She deliberately over-stated her child care expenses to increase her CS. I just can't see working through receipts and budgets with her on a basis of trust; that's what married people do. She had my replacement lined up, and for whatever reason it did not work out. But I would not pay her any money that I didn't have to.

See, this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. In many cases, this hurts the kids rather than the ex spouse.

I'm sure my exhusband felt the same way, and I'd always been responsible for the money in the family and never spent on myself. Just because I left him suddenly I'm not going to take care of my children?? I'm sorry, I just don't think someone who was previously a great mother slips that far, no matter the adultery.

I remember being at Walmart after the separation and not being able to buy my daughter a nightgown that she wanted and needed, which was $10.00. I couldn't afford it and groceries for that week. If you're supporting your kids that is fine and good for you, but because he wasn't paying enough CS I couldn't get it.

tmmx #1567647 02/02/06 11:04 AM
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My best girlfriend's ex H is a deadbeat. He lives in a room of his parents trailer, across the country. He usually doesn't work, and when he does, it's part-time sales stuff like selling cemetary plots. While they were married, he barely contributed to their son's life. No surprise that he'd renege on his upbringing after the divorce. Mandate or no mandate, this man would not pay, or spend time with his son.

Nellie, your sitch somewhat mirrors that, although I understand you never expected this from him. You get the extra problem of him being ABLE to see your children, but choosing not to (either by OW's demands or his own choice).

What's really frustrating is when dad is NOT a deadbeat but is treated like one because he can't contribute as much as the custodial parent needs. Raising children is expensive business. If both parents remained in the home, and college wasn't an option without scholorships WHILE both were there, why expect it when divorced? I spoke to this on page 1 of this thread (I think).

As always, I'm just the sap that thinks everyone, given the opportunity, will give all they can to their children. Sadly, this doesn't happen... and who gets hurt? The children. Yeah, the parents hurt, but they're adults. It's the kids that get the crap end of the stick.

Neither my ex or I put *any* mandates in our divorce agreement. Maybe ya'll think we're idiots, but I don't think so.

We know we both were, and are doing the best we can. I fall VERY short (financially) for myriad reasons. He knows and understands. He falls short (emotionally) for myriad reasons. I know, and understand. We pick up the slack for each other.

He's doing the best he can, and so am I. THANK GOD our kids know it, too.

Oh, to live in a perfect world... where divorce wouldn't happen and all children would be born to parents who love them and are able to provide for them until they can provide for themselves. With things the way they are, even parents who stay together struggle like mad to provide. It's just sad.



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Friend of the Court sent me five envelopes this week, all mailed on the same day, all with three sheets of paper in them, and every one identical except for the figures were different in one of them.

I called to see what was up.

Apparently when they have a change they send a new withholding order to all employers on record (including all the ones my ex is no longer employed with) and that's why I got five copies.

They couldn't even tell me why the numbers were different on one of them.

They tried to say it was arrearages. He is not in arrears. (Okay, he was $21 behind. Wow. Call out the cavalry.)

Then they tried to tell me I'd had the CS reviewed and it was changed. Nope, strike two.

Finally they figured out that it is for unpaid medical that he owes me, that I submitted (get this) FOUR MONTHS AGO. They just didn't have it listed under medical. It was under "other--defined below" with no definition, of course. The FoC lady couldn't even tell me WHY it was entered that way.

This is all just FoC in MY county. My hubby pays to another county, who is notorious for being WORSE than mine.

He doesn't even want to call to get his CS reviewed, even though he is making 3x less than he was AND his ex is now working and wasn't. He is entitled to a reduction, but the FoC has treated him so badly in the past he can't stand the thought of dealing with them again.

It is not a good system. Their computer even has an incorrect city listed for my zip code, and she says she cannot change it. Actually argued with me that I was wrong. I've lived in the same zip/city most of my life! It is a small town, no suburbs, nothing nearby! ACK!

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See, this is the kind of thing I'm talking about. In many cases, this hurts the kids rather than the ex spouse.
Well, CS is designed to support the kids and the ex. My preference would be to support the kids only.

You presume that she was, and still is, a great mother who puts the kids first. But they wouldn't see the doctor, dentist, allergist, or optometrist if I didn't take them. They would have to drop out of most activities if I didn't pay the fees and take them. Even though CS makes both of our net incomes equal, to within a few percent.

I'm sorry things were tight for you, and I don't know your background. But I do feel that adultery is a reflection of underlying character, and all of my personal experience with my ex-wife supports that.

tmmx #1567650 02/02/06 04:09 PM
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You presume that she was, and still is, a great mother who puts the kids first. But they wouldn't see the doctor, dentist, allergist, or optometrist if I didn't take them. They would have to drop out of most activities if I didn't pay the fees and take them.
TMMX, your points are heard. Courts can't address all individual situations, so they try to find the allocation to help the majority.

I can replace your words above with my X. He pays minimal CS, and I take it to benefit the kids. It amounts to groceries.

I believe that those X's who misuse CS for themselves are in the minority, not the majority. For those parents who sacrifice for the benefit of the kids, I believe it is rewarded on a daily basis and will be during your children's lives.


It was a marriage that never really started.
H: Conflict Avoider, NPD No communication skills (Confirmed by MC) Me: Enabler
Sep'd 12/01, D'd 08/03.
My joys and the light of my life: DD 11, DD 9
*Approach life and situations from the point of love - not from fear.*
newly #1567651 02/02/06 11:12 PM
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I believe that those X's who misuse CS for themselves are in the minority, not the majority.


I believe so too.

And... I hardly can stand when a NCP paying CS says he gives money to their x wives.
I don't know how much he has to pay to think it's for her too.

E.g., my x pays 9% of his income.
A few months ago I spent one month CS just for - tickets for 5 children's shows in a theatre for my son and myself.
Every month I deposit 1/3 of CS to an Educational Funds account I opened for my son, plus the equal amount out of my money.
And he knows all of this. He knows that I'm devoted mother.
Yet, when he's mad (at his present life), he'd say I have two income. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />
I'd like to see him giving 3-4 times higher CS some other NCPs who earn more are paying... not because of money, but just to see his face. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />)

Alimony is something else and only in specific cases I 'support' it.
But CS?!!

Only once in my lifetime I heard a guy saying - my child is healthy, growing nicely, has his (paid) hobbies, nicely dressed, and I SEE that CS is properly used.

So, I'd have a question for the other ones - do your kids look like starving, walking in torn clothes?

Sorry, I just get mad... whenever we are talking about kids and measuring how much they (don't) need...
They need, in any case, much more than any divorced parents are giving them, especially NCP!

Also, it's really very important to distinguish our opinion of our Xs as our Xs with all hurt they caused Vs. them as co-parents.
If I consider only what I think of my X as X, I'd never give him joint legal custody.
But, as the father of my child, I agreed (although I'll always have problems with him).


I'm not Belonging to Nowhere anymore! :-)
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To add:

I don't need CS at all. I have always earned more than him, and with money I earn I could easily live with my son without this small CS "I" presently receive.

But, I'd never vote for CS taken away.
Not only because there are CPs who needs that additional money for kids, and most of them need, but because NCPs are parents too, and they should be providing for their kids too.
Especially in cases NCPs insist to be involved in children's lives, moreover in making decision regarding their schooling, hobbies, vacation... like in my case.
(One example: I took our son for a vacation to Carribean last year, paid a couple of thousands, and my X complained that I paid too much and how could I. And that vacation equals 8 months CS.

So, he knows where CS goes, but - it's just his jelaousy...


Also... X spends for alcohol more than he gives for CS.
He'd never compare those two expenses...
I wonder, does any NCP compare... spending e.g. with some other women, their kids, Vs. what they spend on their own children...


I'm not Belonging to Nowhere anymore! :-)
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