How do you keep your motivation going with a ws who is showing no signs of wanting to fix things. I have eliminated LB & Im trying to fulfill her EN that she will let me but it doesnt seem to have any effect, I have been working on myself she admits that I have been changing.

She told me the other night if she doesnt get emotionally involved than she cat get hurt. She is happy with things as they are, which is basically roommates.

How do I combat the feelings of betrayal she has from the OM because he abandoned her?

Should I wright her a letter letting her know that it cant stay this way indefinitely? If so does anyone have any ideas for the format of the letter? Even my counselor is at a lost of what to do & in a round about way said no one could fault me for calling off the M with all the work & patients I have put into saving the M with out anything in return.

Needing your help, guidance & a pep talk>

Cliff

I took a different aproach. I'm getting the D after her 2 affairs and trying to wake her up for a year. If you really want it then stop being the husband/lover and be her friend. Rent some movies and pop some corn and ask if she would like to join you but don't force or act disapointed. Show concern in what she did durring the day. ask her if she would like to join you where ever you go. Bring up memories of better times. If you watching the movie and a young couple do something silly aske her if she remembers the whip cream fight you had long ago and laugh a little but don't go on with it unless she does. plant the seeds and water. Good luck. My feeling is there sins change them. I can't do it anymore. If she hasn't wore you down to far keep at it. Before you do go the D route talk to a atterny and get everything in line before you tell her. My kindness has hurt me.

cnamzat...

This is going to be brief, because it's late here in Michigan...but...

Could you get her to read and post here? I too am a FWW...there are quite a few of us here...we have a thread that she might like to read...Here's the link...

I also had to deal with feelings about the departure of OM...which, of course, means my poor H had to deal with that as well...that is a tough one for you, I know...I'm sorry...

This website has been so instrumental in our recovery...I think that it could be for the two of you as well.

Do you think that she might consider phone counseling with the Harleys? Sometimes it is tough for WSs to want to go to counseling because they fear condemnation...with the phone it would be easier on her...

Anyway, I'll try to check in with you tomorrow...I need to to get some sleep now...

Try to keep your chin up...recovery is possible...

Best,


Mrs. Wondering

Are you SURE there is NC?

Mrswondering, Im looking forward to more of your input on my situation, as of yet she refuses to do anything, she says she is here because she didn't realise how I felt about her but she doesnt think she needs to work on anything until she starts to feel something for me again. She gets really defensive if I try to bring up relationship issues. Im not really sure how to bring anything up or communicate with her with out her defences kicking in. At one point I gave her the EN questionnaire & she said she didn't want to fill it out because she didn't want to give me false hope if she answered it honestly because she was uncomfortable withe me fulfilling them right now.

There as been a little progress, talk about day to day things is getting better again. Also last weekend I/we had planed a date out to a comedy club she almost backed out at the last minute but changed her mind when I said I would be going even if she decided not to.


Ahuman, Im as sure as I can be at this point without hiring someone to follow her. Im fairly confident that there is NC she was pretty pissed at the OM as he decided to try to repair things with his W, So to have the affair she had to disconnect from me to make it ok , than the OM she thought she was going to have a life with left her hanging for his W so she felt really betrayed/hurt & it made her feel worse for having the A because she found out I really cared And she felt played by the OM. So at this point she is not trusting anything Im doing she thinks Im playing her, when I asked her what I would have to gain by doing that she could not give my one .

Sorry for rambling on, but Im feeling really alone & lost & wonder if Im doing the right thing in trying to repair things but 17 years is hard to throw away.

Cliff

Cliff

Bump, anymore input on what I should do?

Dear CZ,
Don't give up. Most spouses react distant when they first start to withdraw from the affair.

The main thing is to not pressure, and don't bring up the affair yet.

You need to have points in the love bank before attempting to talk about the relationship.

The Harleys say that it is not a good idea to have affair/relationship talks until you have filled some of the ws love bank, so that your marriage can withstand the withdrawal of love points, that "Affair and Relationship" talks cause.

Just keep a low key style of caring, offer and when rejected, just act casual, like it is no big deal.

I started filling my fws love bank by offering back rubs and making him tea each day.

It was small, but it was a start.

Don't expect instant results, withdrawal can take as little as three weeks to longer, depending on how emotionally involved your ws is.

Doing the small kindnesses, eventually do add up, and when your ws is finally through withdrawal, she will probably let you fill her EN's.

My FWS also refused to fill out the EN, but he has been trying to help us recover, and I can tell that he has looked at my EN paper and has read the Harley's concepts of how to recover from an affair.

I'm going through the same thing, only my WW decided to separate. We've been apart for 2 months now. Very frustrating that she won't even try to work on things. She shuts down immediately when I bring up relationship talk. I don't know if it's out of guilt or because she really thinks it's over and is trying to let me down easy (like that's possible at this point). I'm just trying to keep things friendly right now in the hopes that she will wake up from the fog.

Sorry no advice, just a very good understanding of what you are going through. Let me know when you figure it out.

kdsheartbreak thank you for the words of encouragement, Im at the 3 month mark & it seems like it will never end.

DaVinici2
thank you for your understanding


Cliff

MrsWondering where did you go?

Cnamzat,

It's possible that your W behave this way because of her withdrawal from OM. And obviously her feeling abandoned and “betrayed” by the OM makes it worse.

Here is a guide on withdrawal you might find helpful.

Suzet, you may be right about some of it still being withdrawal, but I cant help if she wont talk about what she is feeling. also she doesnt feel that she has to put any effort into our M until she starts to get her feelings back, I have tried to explain that they will only come back with time & effort on both our parts. Right after D day she was pretty open & we discussed a lot, I have always been understanding & non judgemental through out everything that has happened but she wants to act like nothing happened & see where we go from there, but does not put any effort into the M other than trying to be nice to each other, nothing on an emotional level at all. She also has trust issues with men in general right now because of what the OM did & what she feels I didn't do.

She doesnt think the changes I have made are genuine of will last, when I have asked her what would I gain by deceiving her she doesnt have an answer. Im not looking for miracles just a turn in one direction of the other.


Cliff

Cnamzat, I see it’s now 3 months since your W’s A has ended, so it’s still very early in recovery for both of you… And 2 months into withdrawal is very early for some FWW's... Do you think there is a possibility that you W might be depressed? Maybe going to an Individual Counselor to work through her feelings will help (and combining it with Marriage Counseling later on).

This is a huge issue for your W right now and it will take her some time & patience to heal from the feelings of hurt etc. Be patient. It will also be good if she can address this with a counselor.

Also, I think your W hasn't yet taken full blame & responsibility for her own mistakes & choices...and it will take her some time to come to terms with it. This post of Dorry will give you more insight into this.

thank you suzet for taking the time & letting me vent. I have read the posts you have suggested & they do help my perspective a little. I think your right on the money with a lot of your comments. She wont seek any help & gets really defensive if I try to suggest it, I think she is afraid of confronting whats happened.

Even though d day was 3 months ago I have been trying to open up the lines of communication for a lot longer, about 18 months granted because of the A a lot of what I did & said fell on deaf ears. I also thinks she blames me for how things came to an end, she was having her cake & eating it to until I discovered the A & called them out on it, which is what ultimately led to the end of the A because the OM left her to try & repair his M, she also hurts from the pain she caused the OM wife.

I feel like Im in major limbo & I cant see the light at the end of the tunnel, even though I want to hope that its there. My EN for affection etc have not been meet for a very long time & I running on fumes right now.

Cliff

I'M HERE! I'M HERE! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Sorry about not getting back to you...I had a kidney stone this past weekend, and then I just let myself get side tracked...I'm here now, and at full attention...promise...

Well, this is a tough road, huh? There's an understatement...take heart, it can be done. In addition to the good stuff that you've been given here on this thread, your W is also probably feeling rejection along with her withdrawal...and that is not a good feeling on top of the mess that she knows she's made. I know that I spent/wasted so much time trying to reconcile those feelings myself. People in A's like to believe that they are with their "soulmate", helps justify their behavior...it all seems so real at the time...now her OM has chosen otherwise...boom, there goes that fantasy. Typically one of the reasons that folks get into an A has a lot to do with low self esteem in the first place, so rejection combined with that plus withdrawal is brutal...so much guilt, confusion and general self loathing.

My husband did a lot with me during my withdrawal. We own businesses, so he had the freedom to be home almost always. It was summertime, so he joined a local community pool for us and we went quite a bit. He bought food and "grilled out" for us. When it rained we went out to lunch and to movies(comedies) while our daughter was at camp. We went to Cedar Point Amusement Park...he just made sure that there were tons of fun activities for us to do together. We laughted A LOT. Relationship talks came more naturally for me in this light.

I don't know if you would be able to do this, but my h made me feel very safe to talk to him about my feelings regarding the OM and the A...he never judged me or got angry with me...he listened and nodded understandingly. (I'm sure this was not easy for him...he has a real cool head...literally, he has NEVER yelled in his entire life-wish I could say the same)

I will tell you that when I look back at how he handled himself I am awed by him more than words can express...he represents so much to me, but two words that immediately come to mind are grace and strength...I admire him so much...so, if you can take it, I believe that good things will come back to you for it.

Something else that has helped me more than anything is his ability to see how the A happened...NOT that the A was his fault, cause that was all me...but his understanding of human fallablity(sp?)...he said he could see how that our relationship had become ripe for an A on both sides, opportunity just presented itself to me first. He never said..."How could you do that...I would NEVER have done that"...I never felt like I should be wearing a big red A on my shirt in other words...he was empathetic...

As the others have said, it is still early...keep on keeping on...Also, I don't know if she would be open to it, but our email addy is in my signature line and I would be glad to correspond with her if she would feel more comfortable one on one with someone who has been there...

You are also welcome to ask me any questions that you would like or email my H at the above mentioned addy(we share the account)...

Best,

Mrs. Wondering

MrsWondering, thank you for your answer, sorry to hear about the kidney stone I know they can be quite painful.

My biggest problem is she wont seek any help at all for herself or the M. Im not sure if you saw in an earlier post under my other screen name that Im not totally innocent in all this either. About 8 years ago I was a WS & in her mind I never fixed things after my A, which she is correct I/we should have done a lot more to repair our M than which is why Im getting a lot of resistance from her now, when I suggest something to repair our M like Counseling she throws it in my face saying I wasn't willing to do that years ago why should she do it now.

Im at a loss on how to proceed from here she says she is comfortable with the way things are now because in her mind they are better than they have been in a long time. The problem is its not really a M right now its just two people coexisting, After the death of my parents a couple of years ago I realized that life needs to be lived to the fullest & be enjoyed by all. Im willing to do what it take but she doesnt seem to want to budge at all, its almost as if she is just waiting for me to give up & file for a D so she doesnt have to be responsible for the failure, she could blame me & have more justification for what has happened.

I really need & deserve love & affection but I don't see how to make that possible with her attitude, the last few days she has seemed a little warmer towards me, talking more, but still no affection & will not let me show her any.

enough rambling for now Im glad your doing better. thank you & Mr W for taking the time, hopefully she will see through the fog or whatever is in her mind in the near future so we can get to the real work of repairing our M.


take care,
Cliff

Cliff...

Can you back off of the relationship stuff for a minute? Think back to when you first dated your wife...was it hard or forced? No, you "courted" her...you didn't constantly ask her to talk about "the state of your union" or say let's go to counseling to hone our skills, did you? All that stuff can come later, right now you're just trying to attract her back...remind her about what she was attracted to in the very beginning...Don't verbalize this stuff right now...that's what I was trying to convey to you in my last post...keep it light...go have fun together...Decide together that, just for now, you'll ignore the elephant in the room. Rediscover why you like each other...the love feelings will follow later...she will feel safer sharing with you in this environment...

When you get to that point, I think it would be great for both of you if she were to come and read and post here. In the beginning, I had an easier time seeing the "wrong" of my affair by reading the situations of others. When I read about other WWs, I was just appalled at what they were doing to their husbands...then I made the connection that that was what I had done to my husband...this place is what helped me to understand that my husband was the important one...the OM was just a bug on the windshield of life...Additionally, it helped us and continues to help us by allowing us to discuss things in the third person and then apply the solutions that we come up with for others to our own lives. This place just gives us even more common ground.

Your wife will eventually have to stop using your A as a "get out of jail free" card for her own...I think that that will come with time. You might benefit from reading Dorry's Story...just look up one of her posts(she's got a couple of current threads going) the link is in her signature line...she was first the WS and then the BS...she's incredible...if I talk to her later, I'll have her take a look at your thread if she has the time...I think that you could glean a lot from her insight.

I am reminded of a quote from a favorite book of mine called A Rich Man's Secret by Ken Roberts...I think this is what you should do right now, "Take the first step, no more, no less, and the rest will follow".


Many Blessings,

Mrs. W

Thanks once again for your input, in answer to your question.


I have already implemented this 3-4 weeks ago, I know in my writing I make it seem like Im hounding her but a lot of that is just venting here so I don't do it with her. I have only had one occasion where I faulted & let her draw me into an argument & LB about 6 weeks ago, other than that I have been very understanding & non judgemental when she does open up which has been rare in the last couple of months. I will take a look at Dorry's treads over the weekend its pretty long. I have read part of them before but will take the time to read the whole tread so I can comprehend everything that was said.

As far as courting her she is not making that very easy she acts like a kid sometimes when I bring up going out on a date. For example a couple of weeks ago a comedian came to a near by city that I thought she would like to see so I asked if she would like to go all I could get out of her was a maybe, than after a couple of days went by I casually asked again if she wanted to go or not because I had to order the tickets, she answered by saying I don't care if you want to go we can so I ordered the tickets.

When the day came for the show she took a nap as it was a late show with an hour drive to get there, we had to leave at 9 pm. I started getting ready at 8 & woke her up. I jumped in the shower & started to get ready at 8:20 she was still in bed, I reminded her of the time & left her alone, at 8:40 she was still in bed, I reminded her one last time. At 8:50 she came out & asked if we were still going, I told her that I would be going whether she went or not she chose to go but the drive up was very quite & distant I tried to engage her in conversation but didn't have much luck. She seemed to have a good time at the club & than the drive back was quite again. Even though I thought her actions were rude & uncaring I tried to make the best of it. This is an example of what I mean when I say she doesnt make it very easy if anything it tends to push me away from making any sort of effort. What do you think?

I appreciate your help, thank you


Cliff

I have read Dorrys story but I am missing how it may apply other than the fact recovery is possible, the one glaring difference is my WS shows no sign of wanting to work on the M. In Dorrys story no matter how bad things got, even the A of her H she still wanted to try & save the M.

The best I can hope for right now is being nice to each other with daily small talk that I usually start & quite often get short one word replies, she is comfortable with the way thing are because in her mind they are better than they have been in a long time so why rock the boat & try to fix things. Also she has all the benefits of me changing & making my self a better person, doing more to help around the house etc which she acknowledges but feels or has no consequences for her actions because of the way that I have reacted in an understanding & caring manner without being judgemental.

I feel that she is just here for convenience the only indication that she has ever given for staying is because she didnt realise I felt the way that I do.

Sorry for my ranting once again I really do appreciate you trying to help me understand what is going on & that there is hope even in the worst situation, but it looks pretty bleak from my point of view.

I still would like to hear from both you & Dorry to get your point of view on this.

Cliff

I saw this in another thread, Michelle Weiner Davis's divorce busting 180 degree list it was posted by suzet I wonder if it would be appropreate in my situation because of the way my WS is reacting.

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/cgi-bin/