Caren -

Hey! Was reading your thread at work today!! Just saying hello, and get on back into the "B" zone.

Kim

I love him, and I don't feel that we're dancing, and this time I have the Lord with me guiding me through this, and I know I'll be fine.

I appreciate your insight, you know I do, but I don't happen to agree with it. I don't see how cutting him off for 6 months *just because* is conducive to saving my marriage.
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Caren:

Goodluck.

By the way, there is no "just because" about any of this...

You are the dieter who celebrates a 5 pound weight loss with a trip to Country Buffet to pat yourself on the back.

It is all good, you'be "been there, done that"....and you'll probably be "there" again. I know you can take it, so I give it to you straight with no BS to take the edge off.

Not much else to say. Posting quota for the day has been maxed.

Check back with you in a week...

Lem

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Some people just don't get it, they don't get it that they don't get it.
email:lemonman36@yahoo.com

Edited by lemonman (01/26/06 07:34 PM)

Post Extras:

BUMP...

LOL, I am back in the B zone as of last night folks <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I haven't talked to him today at all, and I'm perfectly fine with it.

I'm sure I'll start missing him again soon, but I'm just going to have to deal with it, now aren't I??

Yes, I realize he can't live without me....it's obvious.

He saw me tonight driving, I had my friend Jeremy (My gay friend) in the car because his BF had gone to work and he needed to pick up his paycheck. Mark stared him down as we passed him.

He knows that we're friends, but I don't think he's ever seen him, so I'm sure I'll be accused of the dreaded torrid affair....whatever.

Yeah, I wasn't upset that he wanted to buy Brooklyn things....that's fine, I'm perfectly fine with that....it was the fact that he said he didn't have any money, and then spent at least as much as it would have cost to tow that car.....forget that.

So I am in B, I'm not trying to get any drama started...the passing him thing is going to happen on occasion as we live in a very small city, it really can't be avoided. I'm not going to the grocery store by his work, I stopped at one on the way home from work tonight so I wouldn't have to go there. I hated it, because I don't know where anything is and it takes forever, but I guess I'll figure it out.

God Bless,

-Caren

Lemon-

When can I look forward to your psychic hotline?

I am still convinced that this is workable, I am still convinced that I am NOT dancing any dance.

I love my husband Lemon....I'm not going to stay in Plan B for some pre-determined amount of time.

I know that this is supposed to be for me. But just moving out has done a lot for me. I know I can stand on my own 2 feet. I just prefer to share my life with my husband, with my family.

I know I can live without him now, that's something I couldn't ever say before. But knowing I can, and wanting to do that are 2 different things really.

I went back to B, because the conditions that I set are not being met. Before I went back to him just because he showed the slightest interest in me. I was desperate. I'm not desperate anymore. I still want the 7 course meal we discussed, and if he's not able to give that to me, then so be it.

I know what I want, and I'm not settling for less, I've seen how that worked the last time.

And I know that he got his Caren fix and he's good for a while....and I know I am the one that enabled him to get that fix. I'm not a stupid person. I get it.

In fact.......he's already trying to talk to me again. Brooklyn got 3 F's on her report card....I'm not remotely surprised, her life has been all screwy forever. So, this doesn't surprise me, but when she was talking to him on the phone this evening before she went to bed, he was grilling her about it, and she was telling him her grades...etc. etc, and he must have said "Let me talk to your Mom" because she tried to hand me the phone. I walked away and went and folded laundry, and he told her "Tell your Mom to call me" Well now, that's not going to happen.

The child got F's, it's not like talking to him is going to change the grades that she already has......all I can do is keep on her about her current grades.

So, he's already back to trying to talk to me again.

The only problem I forsee in Plan B is that we have a subpoena for February 13th regarding local taxes....apparently they never got our tax forms. We don't owe anything, and we sent them....but they apparently never received them, so we have to go to court that day. I don't see how I can get around seeing him that day, but I suppose I can just get in there, get it over with and get out without any conversation other than the matter at hand.

God Bless,

-Caren

In agreement on the first part of your remark, BUT he was "dead serious" about winning this plan B game you keep playing. It was nothing more than making you talk to him.

Think about it from his perspective - why would your letter and words mean anything. He can break you in no more than a week. He knows exactly how to do it, so the timing is all his. So if it goes 1 week, 2 weeks, etc. it's because that is how long he wants it to go.

Sorry, but it just seems from my view that Plan B is nothing but a "game" to both of you. I truly hope that you can find an answer and solution to restore your marriage.

We ALL dance a dance, and a different one with different people...the danger comes in thinking we don't.

What's happening now is you are changing the dance steps, and so HE has to change or be partnerless...

The burden HAS to be upon HIM to come up with the recovery plan...like I said before, but I was vetoed. When a person starts throwing around vague terms about what they want, but no knowing how to get there...that is just baloney...given your history... If you were one or two months into this, I would say, "Sure, help lead him." But he knows FULLY what is expected of him, he just wants YOU to do the hard work so he can get back to his comfortable life and wife and taking it for granted...

I want you folks to know how much I genuinely appreciate all of your comments.

I appreciate all your points of view. You bring up things and ways of thinking of my situation, that I could never come up with.

This site is such a blessing.

I hope that I don't offend anyone with my replies, or with my posts in general. I type how I'm feeling. I'm very honest, so I don't lie about things, I just tell it like it is.

I don't feel that *I* am playing a game. I am very serious about recovering my marriage, and I think that I've made great strides. (Especially since this time last year I was so depressed that I had contemplated suicide and was in counseling 4-5 days a week. I think I've come a long, long way).

I feel so much stronger, I believe that I am a better person for this experience, it's nothing I care to repeat, but I have grown tremendously because of it.

I know that everything will work out in the end, and it will work out for the best.

I just wanted to take a minute to say thank you to everyone for your concern, and for not giving up on me...I'm sure it's tempting <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

God Bless,

-Caren

Caren ~ your intent may not to be playing a game.

But that is the perception you create.

No one believes there is a 'set' Plan B time.

What we are trying to get you to see is that the price to your heart, the price of access to you, is far too cheap.

What we are trying to get you to see is that the price to your heart, the price of access to you, is far too cheap.


Ooooh, good one BR!!

What you perceive as a "game" or "dance" is that you are manipulating or trying to get an outcome through trickery...

That is not at all what I mean when I use those terms...when I refer to a "dance" I mean the set of habits we use to relate with other people. For instance, the pet names, or phone habits we use with other people. The dance I use with my Mom is we talk about 3X a week, if it is longer, we get antsy. The family "game" is that we try to get together for birthdays.

My H and I have a "dance" of back and forth, if he leaves I miss him, if I leave, he misses me, we don't get too far out of reach of each other... I have changed the "dance" in recent years by pointing out and not accepting his passive-aggressive behavior, and he has changed the "dance" recently by being more honest, with himself and others...

Are these trickery? No. Think aobut the set of habits you have been living with Mark, and how you are changing? What you are willing to accept is a biggy...

Good one.

What I see as happening, and I'm new here, so bear with me- is that he gave you one little inkling that he was sorry for what he did and suddenly you're all "Let's buy rings" and yada yada. You said it once. If he were truly concerned with getting you back he'd be meeting all your requirements, including the rings, without you saying another word. He's not.

He knows you and your opening up to him so soon showed him that he still knows you.

And for him to say "You don't trust me" Ummmm, there is no way I would have said anything less than "I sure don't", because you don't and you shouldn't at this point. If he will not give you his new cell phone records, that goes to show me that something else is up.

He said he would give me the new cell information, but I didn't say anything further about it, because he hadn't done the other things I'd asked of him.

The ring thing wasn't me saying "Oooo lets buy rings", it's important to me. I don't know why, and I'm not going to keep defending this point, it's just the way I feel, simple as that.

I'm not sorry that I spoke to him when he was saying he was sorry. I'm actually glad I did. At least I know where he is coming from now.

I don't believe that he's in contact with the OW, other than in passing.

And I agree with all of you that he thought "SWEET! I can be with my family AND be single" Well that's not going to happen.

He was already trying again yesterday to talk to me regarding Brooklyn's grades. I don't feel this is necessary as discussing her grades with him isn't going to change anything.

I forgot to mention something he said when I first started talking to him....and it just popped into my mind, so I'm posting it. He said "You know exactly which buttons to push" I said "What do you mean?" He said "By not talking to me....you know when you say you're not going to talk to me, it just makes me want to talk to you all the more." True dat...lol.

I don't know if he is planning on taking Brooklyn this weekend. It is his weekend, but last time he said "I wasn't going to control him....." so he didn't take her.

It doesn't make any difference to me if he takes her or not. I'm perfectly happy having her at home with me, but I think she does need to see her father.

Okay, well I'm going to run outside and smoke a cigarette.

God Bless,

-Caren

I wasn't meaning to say that you were wrong to want the rings, I just think it's not the appropriate time for that. I think he has a LONG way to go before you should even be willing to accept the ring in the first place.

I dunno, it just seems like married people should wear wedding rings.

I'm bored...lol. It's 11pm and I've already done the majority of the laundry. Washed all the dishes, cleaned the bathroom, mopped the kitchen and bathroom floors....I'm not remotely sleepy....arrrgh.

My friend Jeremy came over again tonight, but he didn't stay long, I drove him crazy cleaning. I can't help it, it makes me nervous when things aren't clean, which is a major switch from even a year ago.

That was one of Mark's top EN's and I always ignored it before. My house was always in disarray, but for the last year, I've been keeping the house very clean, and it's apparently become a habit. If I leave a dirty dish in the sink before I go to work, I worry about it all day long.

Yes, I go from one extreme to the other I guess...LOL.

I am way hyper, I guess I've never noticed it before. It seems normal to me, but I don't really sit still for too long at a stretch.

When I was still living with Mark, I'd have all the housework done before he got home, and I'd sit on the couch and watch TV with him. But I was always doing something...even then. I'd rub his feet or something.

I had a decent day at work, I'm really, really full of energy today, so the poor guy was probably worn out by the time I left. I did the dishes (His wife usually leaves dirty breakfast dishes), swept the floor, cleaned off the counters, fed the cats, changed the linen on the bed, gave him a bath, washed his hair, soaked his hands in soapy water and cleaned under his fingernails....lol. He was probably like AHHHHH when is she leaving?!?!?! LOL

I haven't heard from Mark today, which is good. He never followed up on that "Have your Mom call me" thing from last night, I thought he would....but I'm glad he didn't. I'm hoping maybe he's getting the *Stop relaying messages through Brooklyn* policy, finally.

Well DD20 (Jeni) just called so I'm going to get off of here.

God Bless,

-Caren

Haha Caren - I'm like you - lots of nervous energy that I use for cleaning. It is hard for me to sit and do "nothing".

So I guess its Plan B for you for another couple of weeks. Hubby still doesn't get it. I was worried when he didn't come for dinner on time.

LOL yeah, I'm sure Plan B will be getting to him in the near future. It was quiet like this before and then he just broke down with the *I'm sorry for everything* speech.

Well this time they'll be no listening to an I'm sorry speech, I don't have a thing to say to him until he produces that fricken car.

I need to know if he's taking Brooklyn this weekend. How would you suggest that I find that out??? I mean I established the schedule in the PBL, but he bucked it, if you recall....seems I was trying to control him by letting him see his daughter.....okee dokee.

I thought about having Brooklyn ask him, but I didn't want to relay messages through her either.

I wonder if I should have my Mom call him and ask him....LOL, he'd be sooooooo P.O.ed.

I have a pretty close relationship with my family....even though they aren't very understanding, I feel duty bound to talk to my Mom everyday, and if I don't .... she sure lets me know about it, and they are less than thrilled with Mark, and I understand that....but the funny part is that Mark is absolutely scared to death of them, he hasn't seen them in probably 6 months, because he avoids them like the plague......he can't be having people judge him....LOL.

I haven't spoken MIL, not since the night I moved out and she said "If anything happens to that boy SOMEBODY is going to pay". Not sure what you say after someone says that to you. It's blatantly obvious that she's on his side and that I shouldn't be making waves.

I've got some other family issues going on too. I know I mentioned somewhere before that my little sister was my contact person when I was in Plan B before but that she is on heroine now. Yeah, that's a fun little fact. So she's calling me 30 zillion times a day trying to borrow money....FROM ME...hello it's not like I have extra cash laying around all over the place...I make 10 bucks an hour and I'm supporting 2 kids.

She has 3 kids, and she's married, and she runs around ALL DAY, I guess trying to score heroine. Her oldest daughter is 17 then she has a 14 year old and a 9 year old. The 9 year old goes to public school, but the other 2 are home schooled (on the computer) and she is absolutely NEVER home with them. She doesn't clean her house, she doesn't take a shower, she doesn't wash the clothes. I honestly don't know what on earth her husband is thinking putting up with this crazy crap.

She's been to rehab twice in the last month or so, to no avail. She had everyone believing that she stopped doing it, and she said that she was gone all the time going to meetings (AA or NA or something), but no one goes to this many meetings.

She came over to my house over the weekend (My kids were gone, I don't let her come over here if they are here). I can't even remember the reason she came over, but anyway, I said "Cristi...you realize I know you're still doing heroine right?" She said "Oh, okay...if you say so" I said "You also realize that I know you're not confirming nor denying routine, right?" She said "I never denied it" I said "Ummmm yeah you did, you told me you weren't going to do it anymore because that's what killed Chris Farley and John Belushi". So anyway, I told her how totally gross I thought it was that she was doing that, and I said "I KNOW you don't use a new needle everytime..." She said "No, but I don't use a needle anyone else has used, I'm the only one who uses them" I said "Well that's still nasty...and don't you think there's a reason hospitals don't just reuse needles over and over??? BECAUSE YOU'LL GET AN INFECTION!!" So anyway, she doesn't give a flying crap, and I feel so bad for her kids, and so bad for my parents....they shouldn't have to be dealing with this at their age.

I did, however, notice some striking similarities between a drug addict and a WS. She does a lot of the same things that WS's do, including not wanting her H around. She stays as far away from him as possible, and she says she's not attracted to him....and she loves him but isn't in love with him..and when confronted she can produce those crocodile tears. So the only HUGE difference I see is that she's not having an A with another person.....she's having an A with drugs.

I pray for her all the time. But she's always been so wishy washy....you've always been able to just bulldoze her, and no amount of threats even ruffles her, she just let's it roll off of her back.

Sheesh, my life is so screwy any way you slice it.

God Bless,

-Caren

CarenMc - I am not even going to begin to give you any advice because you are getting some very good words of wisdom here! I did want to say that your child's education is probably the one thing that you and your WH need to communicate on somehow. Failing so many subjects is not good and you need to be pro-active with her education. You and her father need to be on the same page as far as grades and education. I also hope you have been to the school to talk to her teachers and administrators so they know what is going on in her life.

I'm sure you are doing everything you can, I am Just expressing my concern for you daughter!! Best of luck!

Brooklyn's problems with her grades has been an ongoing thing. It seems that she can't seem to sit still in class, she doesn't stay in her seat, etc. It's nothing that she does here at home, just at school, and yes, her teacher is aware of the situation, and we have talked to her teacher several times.

I don't have medical insurance currently, but I think she needs to be tested for ADHD.

I was simply stating that talking to Mark isn't going to change the grades she already has. I don't necessarily need to talk to him about it.

Her teacher is on maternity leave currently, so I can't talk to her either.

The major thing with her grades is because she doesn't sit still in class she doesn't get her assignments complete....so the missing assignments are what is bringing her grades down.

They've started sending home a list of her missing assignments (This started towards the end of last grading period, but she had like 30 missing assignments and only a few days to get them in.), she had 8 missing assignments on Friday, she's completed 4 of them.....so I'm just staying on her to keep it up.

I've talked to her about sitting still in class, and before she was taking distracting things to school (unbeknownst to me)in her purse. Her teacher had taken several of these items away and gave them to us during the last parent-teacher conference. She is no longer allowed to bring a purse to school. (She doesn't need it for feminine reasons YET).

But all I can do at this point is talk to her about it....I can't be there at school and sit on her......and the teacher doesn't really have any suggestions.

So anyway, he knows all of the above, and he is just looking for an excuse to talk to me, there is nothing regarding the grades that we haven't already hashed through.

So, no one commented on how I should go about finding out if Mark is going to take Brooklyn this weekend......

Do I have her ask?

My cell phone is currently off (It's a pay as you go cell, and I'm out of minutes), it won't be back on for about a week...week and a 1/2. So I can't text message him about it.

Well, gotta get the kids to school.

God Bless,

-Caren

There is a vitamin suppliment called Attentive Child that has worked WONDERS for my Rebekah. It's chewable, and I don't think it tastes bad. If anything, she'll be getting her vitamins...even if it doesn't work, right?

We got it at a health food store, but I'm sure it's orderable online.

Since you don't have the insurance for a doctor, maybe this will help. Has Brooklyn been tested for dyslexia? Often ADD and ADHD go hand in hand with that. Bekah was in 3rd grade before they finally tested her (and only after I pitched a fit b/c I KNOW the child is brilliant!).

I'm so sorry about your sister. My cousin just got out of rehab for drug addictions. Often they have to hit bottom before they can crawl out of the mud. It's so hard on the ones that love them, though. He (cousin) was dern close to loosing his wife and baby...she was that fed up with it all.

Sometimes tough love is the only tack to take....with any addiction.

Caren,

I've not been online in a long time...last week was the first time in months, but I've thought about you. You've grown girl. You sound much stronger and a heckuva lot less wishy-washy - but then, we all do, I think.

Squidges,
Kimmy

Yes, and I agree but remember, he's not FULLY into this marriage just yet. He had a A, and you guys have separated, I'm not sure he's thinking "married" at this point.

You're going through alot with your sister, I feel for you. My brother is a homeless drug addict. Please do not enable your sister by giving her money, it's only going to hurt her further.

Thank you Delean-De, I will check into that attentive child supplement. We have a GNC nearby, I will stop in and see if they have it. I'm not thrilled with the idea of putting her on ritalin or something anyway.

And I do feel stronger (thanks for noticing..lol). I know that a year ago I was a disaster. I couldn't fathom living without my husband....now, I know that even though it's not what I want, I can do it.

Coachswife-

Yeah, it sucks that my sister is doing this stuff. I just know that my Mom is worrying herself silly about it, and I know that her oldest daughter knows everything that's going on, and that's sad.

I don't give her any money. I simply tell her I don't have it. Even if I have money, I certainly don't have it to give to her.

She has done so much messed up stuff. She's stolen my Mom and Dad's prescription pain medicine (Mom has rheumatoid arthritis and Dad had brain surgery).....they had to take her house key away from her, because not only were pills coming up missing, but 3 digital cameras went missing, and some coins out of my Mom's coin collection.

She also likes to pawn her kids stuff....like their game systems and she steals money from the 17 year old all the time, and most recently she stole Wal-Mart gift cards from her 17 year old that she had gotten for Christmas.

My Mom won't leave the room if she's at her house. She is afraid she'll steal something. It's so sad that you have to be worried about that with your own child.

She, to my knowledge, has never stolen anything from me....but she knows I'd break her dang legs if she even attempted it.

I don't like her coming to my house. I mean I LOVE her very much, but I can't expose my kids to that sort of thing.

The day that she came over when the kids were gone, she saw a box of Cheez-its on top of the fridge, and she grabbed the box and had it open and then said "Can I have some of these?" (Her hand was already in the box), and I said "You can have the whole box if you want, I don't eat them...." When in reality I didn't want them anymore, because she stuck her hand in there, and I just don't know where she's been. I also have to clean everyplace she's been....lysol the couch...etc.

She's never been a clean person anyway....she rarely showers or shaves or any of that, her clothes are always dirty and stained, and a lot of her clothes, and her clothes and her kids clothes a lot of times have the mildew stains on them from being wet I guess and left in a pile and not washed......

I feel so bad for her kids, no one should have to live in the filth they live in and she doesn't care for them properly they're always sick. The 17 year old weighs at least 300 lbs, she still wets the bed, and my sister takes the sheets off and just throws them down the basement steps. They have like 3 cats too, so you can seriously smell the cat pee from the driveway. And once inside (which doesn't happen very often) it's a cat pee/human pee combo. YICK.

I dunno, should I call child protective services??? The kids love their Mom, and she's not abusive at all....but she does neglect them.

Her husband is there a lot, he works from home alot, so they have an adult there most of the time. And he loves her so much that I just think that he just accepts it. There are times he gets apprehensive and can't go in to work because he's afraid she'll leave him (She's left him multiple times).

My Mom blames her husband, says that he is too controlling...and that he won't give her any money...ummm hello, I wouldn't give her any money either. At one point in time she was in charge of paying the bills and she spent THREE house payments on drugs, and their house was almost forclosed on.

I wish I was in a position to take those kids, but I'm really not, and my parents can't really do it either.

My poor parents <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> They had to take custody of my oldest sister's kids when they were little too....for the same reasons....my oldest sister was doing drugs and stripping (and prostituting)and leaving her 1 and 2 year olds home alone.

I don't understand how people raised by the same parents can be so totally different.

I have 3 sisters, and only 2 of us are anywhere close to being normal.

I'm feeling pretty good about my own life, but it's hard not to in comparison to the train wreck that is my sister's life.

God Bless,

-Caren