Yesterday was another d-day, like starting over. My FWH was convinced he told me EVERYTHING about all the OW, cheating, lying, etc. CONVINCED!!! He's not lying anymore, but just cannot seem to remember.

Let me lay out the story to this point.

D-day #1:
1) Before marriage, he broke up with me for 4 days after seeing each other for a year. He spent the night with an ex girlfriend (no sex, just kissing).

2) In this 4 day span, he also ran into another ex girlfriends & kissed her as well. (BTW-he hadn't remembered this girl at all, but then I asked him about her & he said "HMMM, now that you mention it, I did see her!") I found this out one week after D-day

3) 2 years into our M, he fell in love with a co-worker & wrote her a love letter. She didn't feel the same & that was it. However, he did remain friends with her up through D-day #1.

4) Then, 4 years into our M, he has a PA with another co-worker (different job, similar senario) which was mostly kissing that lead to oral sex. Then, he eventually just started avoiding her to end it. She kept calling him for 2 years after that even after he left that job, ending his contact with NC call after D-day #1.

5) Right after leaving that job, he went to training in another state for his new job for 6 wks. There, he met a woman at a strip club, drank & chatted. Nothing else happened, but he went back several times looking for her.

6) Again, during this training time, he went out with a friend from work and a woman who he danced with & held hands on the dance floor. My H got pretty drunk, but nothing else happened.

D-day #2:
New information seems to make me crazy at this point.

Yesterday, I started asking about the strip club while he was gone to training. I said "how did you leave the club?" Then, he said, "oh, I think I walked her out to her car". I said "you never mentioned that", then he said "OHHHHH, I think she hugged me too".

I was so angry because I've asked so many questions, but if I don't have the right one, I don't get the full picture. I told him I need ALL info because this trickling of info is too painful. I went off alone & cried while he went off to pray & think about it to see if he had left anything out.

So, he comes back later & says, "yes, there's more"
1) The woman he danced with while gone on training unbuttoned & unzipped his pants on the dance floor.

2) Before marriage he went to many strip clubs & even went back to a stripper's house where they kissed.

3) Before marriage, he pursued & asked a girl out going out on a date with her. Nothing else happened.

4) Before marriage, he went to club, chatted & flirted with a girl, later went to her house where he flirted more. NOthing else happened.

5) Before marriage while we were living together, he went to his brother's bachelor's party (and I knew he went), they went to strip club & he went and layed on the dance floor where the women dances over you & you put a dollar in your mouth & they take it. Even when I asked about this strip club visit, he said "I did nothing" Yesterday, he called his brother to see if he remembered anything else & mentioned the strip club & the brother was like "what, your kidding, you know what you did".

6) The ex girlfriend he had forgotten about until I asked (one week after D-day #1) may or may not have happened when we were broke up. He's not sure.

My problem is that IF his memory is this bad, I will never know all of the things he's done. Does anyone have experience dealing with someone who can literally BLOCK stuff out of their head like this? How can we recover when I'm likely to find out more & more over time? Any recommendations?

He lives on the edge and uses the memory loss excuse to justify him doing it over and over and over again. Typical WS attitude.

Sad piece is that he probably doesn't remember it.

Why? Because his conscience is seared.

Ask him if he knows that his conscience is seared and what he plans t/d about it.

Learn to turn this around t/b a healing thing for you. Once the shock and anger wear off, you will need to learn how u r doing to deal with it.

In my case, my Xws really didn't remember the details of even the stuff I knew. I know there is more than I was 'led' to believe. What I did was blow his 'theory' that withholding info from me was a protective act. Bullhockey, that's a cop out excuse and I called him out on it. That blew his future chances of using that line again. LOL!!!

Eventually even the Xws admitted his 'mind (aka:memory)' wasn't that trustworthy. I filed that info away and when the WS in him would try to come out, I killed it instantly with my RB. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

L.

I am no expert so this is just my opinion. I do believe the brain has built-in protection mechanisms and selective memory is one of them. It is easier to deal with something unpleasant if we can't remember it is an easy way to think of it. I had a couple of bad experiences in my life and I have lost a few years of memories as a result.

I also think that men are worse about remembering than women. Don't know why we are but we just are. On the other hand, I am currently dealing with a WW and she has forgotten many things that are just a few months old. I don't understand it - it is just an observation.

Orchid is right on....I think all or most WS have what I call AFFAIR AMNESIA. And yes, Traic, seems to me that men have more of a memory problem than women, although that is not a cut and dry fact.


Tare

Want2 - if you read here for a while, you will be stunned at the numbers of WS who stay stuff like, "I spent the night with her, but we didn't have sex", or "we just kissed and nothing else happened."

You know exactly what he did. You can be sure that of course he had sex with these women but is not man enough to face you and tell you the truth. He lies to make himself look better. He lies to keep you off his back. He lies so he doesn't have to face the truth of what he really did.

And he will keep right on lying as long as you're buying what he is selling.

I'm sorry this is happening to you, but if it's any consolation this comes under the heading of "they ALL do this" -- as in, they ALL lie to protect themselves.

And don't let him tell you that he's "protecting you from any more pain." He's lying to protect his own sweet [censored] from your anger and your loss of respect for him and the possible loss of his marriage.

He's not lying to protect anyone but himself.
Mulan

Orchid,

I haven't heard of a seared conscience but I suppose you mean disconnected from making moral decisions or disconnected from the emotions associated with guilt. I would probably agree there is an issue with his conscience & it's pretty scary to think about.

My FWH had a very tramatic childhood (if you asked me), but he "appears" untouched by it. However, I think it's the way he coped with his situation (disconnecting). There was both some sexual & physical abuse when he was very young. He didn't even know about a situation where a daycare worker was sucking his penis when he was a toddler until recently. And he didn't even remember that he stuttered as a child until his mother mentioned it & he said "I did?" Later, he remembered it. This was due to a violent BF of the mother's. This is why I know he isn't intentially hiding details, but cannot remember. Most of his childhood memories are blurs at best. His brother sometimes reminds him of situations that he should remember & doesn't.

Mulan,

I too, would have this attitude with anyone on the board. But, there are a few reasons I believe him (or believe he is telling me what he remembers right now even though he claims he could NOT forget intercourse with someone).

1. Just over a year ago he got saved changing EVERYTHING in his life. He's working on becoming the best Christian he can be. We attend every service at church, he submits to God by going up & praying at the front, he's reading the bible & prays constantly. This last D-day info was due to a day of prayer about this & reading the bible.

2. He came & told me about all the info I know. I never found anything out, he came & confessed. He said he will tell me everything no matter how much it might hurt. After his day of prayer, he came & told me what he remembered. There was NO icing on it or glossing it over. I just can not see how he would dedicate time & effort to prayer to remember these things only to lie about the details of it.

3. The final reason I believe him are STD's - Fortunately we both have one. Fortunately? YES! Well, we both came to our relationship with the same one. But, what is most fortunate about it is that it has kept my FWH from having intercourse for several reasons.

a. He's aware that someone could have a different STD, not tell & give him another one (as it happened the first time to him already) & in turn he would give it to me.

b. Then, he was afraid if he gave someone an STD (he told the girl he had a PA with that he had one), that he would have an obligation to them for a more serious relationship & I would eventually find out because she would give it to her live-in BF.

So I say fortunately because it has kept him from having intercourse with anyone else. Even the ex-girlfriends, he knew if he did, he would hurt them & lose me. Otherwise, I think he would have - so I would believe your senario is correct in most cases. But, the risk was too high for him.

He has said he felt that getting an STD was a blessing for him to keep him from doing more & hurting me worse. Now, that's a different take on having an STD. But, I will tell you that even as I struggled with the news & wanted to leave him, that STD keeps me thinking of all the problems I will have finding someone new. So, it can be a curse to some and a blessing to others.

It's just hard to know that I may never have all the information & yes, I wonder if he has intercourse with any of them. I do believe if he remembers more, he will tell me.

Thanks for all the advice & support.

Seared conscience: The condition when one's heart and sense of right and wrong is deadened, allowing one's self to commit henious (sp??) and immoral crimes. This includes crimes of the heart (A).

To forget is a defense that is more of an excuse. Violent or abusive past in itself is not a marker for this kind of behavior. The A uses this technique in most of it's WS cases.

Think about it.....the A robs, threatens, abuses, beats and often kills the love of the family. To come out of that situation alive often means living with that experience. Very traumatic. But it is traumatic for more than just the WS. Yet the WS would rather all forget their stupidty and go on as if nothing happened.

No can do for the rest of the world......closure, proper recovery is vital for the BS, family and yes even the Xws.

To avoid dealing with the trauma only sets one up to fail. It is a only a matter of when and how that it will errupt. For many, full on confrontation, true repentance, willing to cooperate in a complete recovery and taking full responsbility for one's actions along with restoring the trust of all affected in the WS' family is vital to any recovery. Anything less is a setup to fail.

Patience is a virtue that all Bs' must have. The Xws' memory maybe gone today but it may come back tomorrow. Be patient. In time, you will know what you need to know. When the WS is comfortable and assured of his stance, he/she will give the details. If it takes too long, the BS has the option out of the M. Not recommended if there is hope but it is an option.

JMHO,
L.

Thanks so much Orchid.

I do agree this is probably the case for my FWH. He's the type of person that ALWAYS saw himself as the "nice guy" or "good guy" & it was ONLY when he remembered all these things together that he did to me & looked at the serial behavior that he realized who he really has been all this time. He said he didn't even know who he really was. He now realizes that he was never the "nice guy" or "good guy" but he lied to himself just as much as he lied to me & others to believe his own fantasy. Personally, I've watched his mother do the same things in her behavior vs. her belief of who she is.

Today, I asked him if he thought he would have cheated if he has been in another situation or another marriage with someone else. Of course, the "old" WH I had would have said "I don't know, I guess it would depend on the situation" which really means he wasn't taking any responsibility for him being the cause of the A. So, it was a loaded question. But, his answer was "YES, I know I would have. It wouldn't have mattered what the situation was." Then, I said "Right answer!"

So, I think he fully understands now the person he was. It's crazy though, because many times when I asked questions, his answers are "well, I must have felt that way...." and I say "hey, you are the one in your head - how do you not know what you were feeling or thinking?" I believe he was blocking out anything unpleasant that didn't fit his own image of himself. Like you said, his conscience was seared.

If misery wants company, you got me. Mine said and did virtually the same. Funny how when he started being truthful and facing his fears, the I don't know responses were tolerable but they weren't whe he was using that phrase as an excuse and not looking for the answers.

L.

Orchid,

I do think what his is doing for this seared conscience is spending time in the bible & praying. I told him that if I stay, he would have to continue working on his relationship with God, seek IC for himself & MC for us. He agreed to all of it. His only request is that I too work on my relationship with God. Of course, I agreed as well.

That sounds good. It is fair that both of you work on ways to improve yourselves. In turn that will give both of you the time and energy to put the interests of the other ahead of our own. Good principal to practice.

take care,
L.

I've been praying that he will become the H I need, then tonight before he went to bed, he said "I want to be the H you need me to be". What's weird is that I never said I was praying for that & hadn't mentioned those specific words. I thought "Is God telling me he's going to see to it he becomes the H I need?" I certainly hope so.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

L.

Orchid,

I do think it is uncanny how all these WS's say the same things. I'm sure the BS's do too. I agree the "I don't know" responses drive me nuts. We had 2 foster children for a year & one was in attachment therapy. In this therapy, the answer "I don't know" was unacceptable & was NOT an answer. This was for a 4 year old boy & she explained this concept to him by asking him what color the wall was. He said tan or something. Then, she told him that tan was a good answer, but the actual color was something else (and she gave the paint color name). So, she told him that when he isn't sure, he has to try to give an answer because she would not accept "I don't know" as an answer. Of course, I reminded my FWH about this when he was saying it alot (as he didn't remember that).