This statement has been popping up everywhere on here and it got me thinking beyond the obvious meaning of second affair:

Did you know that Harley says that the resentment from a SECOND AFFAIR is often too great to facilitate recovery? And that he does not disagree with a spouse who decides to move on under those conditions?

Although my FWH didn't have two affairs, there have been other major problems in our relationship. Can't some major problems be of similar detriment as a second affair? For example, in our case, FWH broke up with me during our courtship, and very soon after was dating other people. Once even when we were engaged, he broke it off, and a week later was with someone else. Within four months, we were back together. We both pushed it under the rug. This was probably 7 years into our relationship, and him dating someone right away felt very similar to the betrayal I felt d-day.

In the two years prior to his A, there was also verbal and some physical altercations. We, like some recent posters, have pushed each other in arguments. We have been in MC since d-day, and this pushing or grabbing hasn't occurred since before d-day.

I realize that I'm less than a year and a half into this, but these things just keep popping in my head. This is the second time he's betrayed me, and we have some icky memories of abuse that I still think about during the time that lead up to his Affair. Does anyone else feel that other resentments make recovery too difficult at times?

Want to hear something that may be even more surprising?

Harley is skeptical about the value of saving a childless marriage when there's an affair, even just one.

GC

Being a divorcee from a childless marriage where my first W also had an A, I can see the logic behind that train of thought.


FN

Quote "Harley is skeptical about the value of saving a childless marriage when there's an affair, even just one"

Can't argue with that hypothesis.

Pray tell, where did this quote come from GC?

His lips to my ears, Cy. He and I spoke once last spring during a particularly nasty bit of shenanigans from my ex and her AP.

GC

I don't think that's surprising at all, and is very reasonable. In fact, I and quite a few others here usually recommend this, especially when the partners are young and the marriage has been short.

Makes a lot of sense, huh?

WAT

WAT, I didn't think it would surprise everyone - just those who have the misconception that MB = saving marriages at any cost.

GC

GC - understand and good point. Probably needs to be stated more often.

WAT

I disagree… I am a FWW in recovery. My H and I have been together for 10 years and we have no children. MB has helped me and my H tremendously... I feel blessed beyond words to have found this site. Not only has it helped save my marriage, but I believe it has saved my life. I don’t understand why a couple should “give up” if they don’t have children. Do people really believe that if there aren’t kids involved, it isn’t worth trying? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

"resentment from a SECOND AFFAIR is often too great to facilitate recovery?"

I see resentment differently, have to disagree. It was imperative for my marriage to recover--understand and eliminate resentment. Actively understand and prevent resentment. As a BS, you always have the right to walk away. If you leave, you take those resentments and the ignorance that you made them with you.

How many times do you want to be married? (Sorry, Viv, I slipped into talking to GC and the others.) I think it is a valid question. Would you like to stop resenting others, your parents, children...anyone? Affairs have that terrible beauty in them--they showed me what otherwise I don't believe I would have realized.

Now, after you examine, understand and really get what resentment is, and you stop yourself from creating them, then if the dance between your spouse and yourself doesn't change and there are no children, I can see that. Or if you can do this without your partner and want to divorce (w/o children), I can see Harley's point of view. Maybe he doesn't mean resentment? Or his definition is different than mine?

Dear Viv,

You can and would greatly benefit in doing a resentment timeline of your marriage.

As for more than one affair...we had children, but I had many. We're recovering from the one my H had now. It took that to get me, uhm, to get me. It takes what it takes.

I just wanted to pop in and say something because it smacked to me of people being replaceable, or that a better person wouldn't do this and you'd be safe from it. Did you read "The Verbally Abusive Relationship"? And "Lovebusters"? They are good companions.

LA

No, Katie Mae... if I had it to do again, I'd still try, and I don't have children.

But it would look verrrrrrrry different.

GC

No, that's not what GC and I were referring to. We're not saying it isn't worth trying, just that there are fewer reasons, perhaps, to not expend so much energy trying that the potential returns do not justify the expenses.

Each case is unique and yours may be one that had all the good reasons for going the extra mile.

I bet most people would agree that if infidelity entered a short term marriage between a couple in their twenties with no children, that the BS deciding to cut his/her losses and bail out is reasonable decision - depending on the specific circumstances.

I wish you success in saving your marriage and no one here will give you less attention nor wish you less success just because children aren't involved.

WAT

Vivian...I know what you are saying. My H only had one PA, but for 8 years prior to the PA, he was having online A's, flirting and making out with women he worked with or met at conferences! I didn't find out about any of those until 6 months after D-Day! I was sooooooo mad! Still mad some too.Resentful..heck yeah! Ans sometimes more so because he had the chance to come completely clean on D-Day, but he didn't! I had to find it by accident because one of them had emailed him at home and it was still on the hard drive. It was 5 months old, he had replied to stop all contact because he wanted to make it work with me, but that didn't help too much at that time. Long story, but yes, I am very resentful of the other!

Viv,
How are you?I missed talking to you.It's been months.I'm sorry to see you are not doing to well.For me i still have my bad days.I know my H truly loves me and regrets all that he has done.It's just me that has to get off this fence that people call it and let myself be happy.

If you both are willing to work on the M i think you will be just fine.Has he made changes.At least some you see anyway.I think this is important.You said all the other stuff happened before M.

I don't know what i would do if it happened again to me.To be honest i would'nt want to deal with the pain.or put my children thru it.I would leave and move on.I now know i could be on my own.I would make a life for myself.I truly believe if they are sorry and we are meeting all there needs and they are meeting ours it should'nt happen.If it's does then they learned nothing.I'm not saying they don't deserve that third chance but why go there and then to a forth and a fifth.Toy know what i mean.

I'm glad your back.I missed talking with you.hope to hear from you soon.

#1mom

I just don't think that children should be the only or even main criteria for wanting to save a marriage. I had a childless first marriage that was not worth saving under any circumstances. I have had friends with kids who have found it much easier to "co-parent" with their estranged spouses than it ever was when they were married and under the same roof. If despite an affair there is still a deep foundation of love and respect (and an affair doesn't necessarily mean the exclusion of those things), then a marriage should be worth saving regardless of the existence of children. Without that underlying love and respect then the marriage isn't worth much, no matter how many children are involved.

Just my 2¢.

Harley is skeptical about the value of saving a childless marriage when there's an affair, even just one.

The word "value" sure sticks out. We don't have children, but have a long history. I don't necessarily understand why a couple together for two years with a child had more value in saving their marriage. I believe they are both valuable in my eyes and Gods.

I don't think I have the misconception that all marriages should be saved at any cost. I'm not sure if you were suggesting that mine should not.

Like Katie Mae, I have a long term relationship that most days I feel is worth saving. But I struggle with the notion that I'm in my late twenties, carry past resentments, and wonder occasionally why. My husband had a few month EA that turned into a weekend PA and he came home Sunday and told me what had happened over the weekend.

Even though I can say the relationship is better overall, these resentments of past indiscretions and current eat away at me. Like, how could he break up our engagement and be with someone else so soon and how could you have a PA?

LovingAnyway- Could you please explain what a resentment timeline of your marriage is? Resentments can sure eat away at our relationships.

I have not read "The Verbally Abusive Relationship"; I will check that one out.

#1Mom- It';s been too long. He has made changes. Most of the stuff did happen before the marriage, expect the pushing and verbal junk we';d throw at each other for the year or two before the A. That has thankfully stopped. I know what you mean about a fourth and fifth time. In MC we have discussed the what if it happened again, after all this work, going to retrovialle for a weekend, everything. Have you discussed what you would do with your FWH?

Resentment Timeline...

Write down, much like you have, each time you felt resentment for your H. Dig for all of them. When he didn't empty the trash after you asked him twice...uhm, you know, don't only stick to large stuff. Ferret out everything that gave you that feeling. Try not to judge yourself as you write--you might feel childish, petty, labeling yourself. Give yourself permission to be however you need to be to get to all of them.

Mine took 7 pages, single spaced, because I set up the circumstance, too. No surprise there, huh? Wordy and detailed. Really helped me. My H did more of a quickie summary--had them on the top of his head. LOL. He's still uncovering more and it's been over a year. I think I did it the best way. Your choice.

Then you re-read what poured out of you. Dig around a second time for any more of them and add what you come up with. Then you let it sit there for two days. Then re-read once more.

I won't tell you the next step because I didn't know it until four days had passed. If you'll do this (and it is great to do with family of origin, old friends, past relationships, etc.), and come back. I'll give you the next part. I really appreciate that you see how critical resentment is within a relationship.

LA

Viv,

I think my H knows deep down i would leave.I really hav'nt brought it up to many times.I don't want him to think i don't have faith in us.I have so much faith in us.I think i like to remind him so he would think twicw before doing something stupid.He knows i can make it on my own.If i have to i will.But for now i am very happy and i don't think it will happen again.We have learned so much from this.We have learned so much from each other.

Back to you.How have you been?What have you been up too?Last but not least how is your M?

Hope all is well
#1mom