Two years ago my H was victimized and unfairly dismissed from his job (long story). He is still unemployed and the court case is still in progress. In the meantime my H has started his own small computer business to help earn some extra money. Sometimes the business is quite for long times and other times he earns a good amount which helps a lot and which I appreciate very much. Currently my salary is just enough to help us survive from month to month. The past 2 years has been very difficult for us financially and because of this I last year had to let go of my domestic worker who had worked for me once a week. At the time my H reassured me that he would help me in and around the house in stead and give the necessary domestic support to help me cope.

Well, this is where the problem comes in: My H doesn’t live up to his promises and since that time he doesn’t really make much effort to fulfill my EN for Domestic Support. This is a huge EN for me at this stage and my H knows this. Since I’m temporarily the main breadwinner and have done a lot these past 2 years to support my H financially, emotionally and otherwise, I just feel I don’t get enough back from my H to cope with this situation…

At the moment, while he is still unemployed, my H have a lot of free time he can use to fill in my need for Domestic Support while I'm at work, but I feel he does the bare minimum and this leaves me very dissatisfied and unhappy. I don’t know what to do anymore… Nice talk doesn’t seem to help (I’ve tried it many times in the past). Therefore, most days I just let it go but with time the resentment builds up and builds up until I explode…and yesterday was one of those days… I’ve lost it completely and LB’ed big time. I feel bad but at the same time I feel enough is enough… Am I being unreasonable? I know my H’s lack of domestic support is not willful and intentional…

Please understand my H is a very good, loving, caring, good natured and emotionally stable person and I love him very much, but there are some negative characteristics of him and annoying habits which sometimes drives me crazy and depletes huge amounts from my love bank and resents me… It it’s now starting to get to a point where I don’t have the desire to have SF with my H. The things is, in spite of my H’s good qualities, he can be a very lazy, disorganized and sluggish person and because of this he often leave the house disorganized, let his stuff lie around (clothes and underwear on the floor) and this is also the main reason for his lack of domestic support. I feel he disrespects me in this regard. As I’ve said, a few times in the past I’ve talked to him about this patiently and nicely put it doesn’t make a huge difference. It appears the times (like yesterday) when I literally explode, he “gets it” for a while, but afterwards I feel very terrible for exploding like that...and I know it's not good for my M. Any advice?

Is Domestic Support one of his primary EN's as well?

No, it's not one of his primary needs.

How does he respond to the discussions you've had about it being a major EN of yours? Is he enthusiastic about providing domestic support and then just doesn't follow through or is it something he seems sort of reluctant to agree to? Are all of his EN's being met? Does he understand this as being an actual need of yours, or is it possible that he just doesn't want to help out around the house because he feels it's "beneath" him?

My FWW was always critical of my domestic support. Although she works part time, as a primary school teacher, she has a lot of additional work to do by the very nature of her job. I'm an IT manager and work full time, although at 17:30 I can usually switch off and relax. Usually.

When I found out how little she believed I helped, and I say she believed because I thought I was doing lots to help, we sat down and started a new process. She now creates a list of jobs that need to be done, not too overwhelming, on a day by day basis that we can both work on. This has helped immensely as I now know what she wants me to do, I don't need to try and guess, and we can cross jobs off the list as we go so there is a sense of achievement.

I also had to be taught certain jobs. Like how to clean the bathroom. Not a great job but I'd never done it before. I now own my own set of rubber gloves <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> and can be called upon to fulfill this task if needed.

Men are proud of their own abilities and also 'see' less around the house. We don't necessarily see things lying around as 'in the way' but make a mental note that that is where the item is, if we need it. A few polite pointers would perhaps help, not just criticism. I iron to a good, or sometimes very bad, film, and my wife shows me how to do the tricky bits, if necessary, and I am now much more confident in understanding the nightmare that is washing machine settings. It took some humble pie from me to admit to not knowing how to do these things properly and some patience from my wife to show me but the end result is a lot more time together and a less stressed FWW.

When I was guessing at what to do I was never seen as helping in fact I was often accused of getting things wrong and actively hindering, but now we work off a list there is much improvement in that area and my FWW is grateful and happy with the support I give her. Domestic Support is not high on my list of ENs, but I fulfill that requirement for my wife and she is a happier, more relaxed person and much more likely to fulfill my ENs'.

Just a male perspective. Feel free to ignore. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

When I speak to him about it he doesn’t appear very enthusiastic, but he doesn’t appear reluctant either. (I mean, how many people feel enthusiastic about boring and routine household duties?) Verbally my H appears willing to do what I ask him to do and it seems he understand that since we don’t have a domestic worker and I have a 8 to 5 job, he needs to help & support me around the house, but I know it’s something he don’t like to do... Not because he thinks it’s “beneath” him, but simply because household duties takes effort and in general he can be very lazy and sluggish. Usually he will also ride around with his dirty car and won’t make any effort to wash it until the car is extremely dirty. That really ticks me off. I don’t “like” domestic work or feel enthusiastic about it either, but it’s something that needs to be done and something I need to do...and I just need more support from my H in this regard. I won’t feel so strong about this if my H was employed and had an 8 – 5 job either… A lot of times my H do help me, but what irritates me is his timing – usually he will promise to do something on a specific day and then he will keep postponing until I’ll explode or do it myself.

Regarding my H’s EN’s – no, not all of his EN’s are being met… His top EN’s are SF and Affection and lately I’m not fulfilling it enough.

Wantingtotry,

Thanks so much for your perspective from a male's POV - it was helpfull and you've given me some ideas to keep in mind.

Thanks again! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Suzet

Suzet:

Men are from Mars Women are from venus, it never changes. My wife has been mad at me for 20 plus years for being your husband. Post wife's affair, I became a better domestic husband and still continue today.

I make more meals, do more dishes, and have even learned to put the toilet seat down. It is scary. My wife tells people at work that I have been in training for over 20 years and it has finally clicked in. I take a lot of heat from my male co-workers for being PW. I hope you understand what that means.

I feel better about myself more now than before and you might tell your H to try it. Our SF is more frequent and better today so it must be working. Maybe you should bribe him a bit with SF but in a fun and friendly way. If you do this, I will do that, etc. Make it a game that husbands and wives can play. Men are like trained seals and sex is the reward so try it and tell us how it goes. We like to hear detail, LOL. Good luck Suzet. He is a typical young guy. I saw your photos on the photo page and you guys are a great couple. Keep training him.

Do you live anywhere close to the Bushveldt area in South Africa? I own stock in a company and they are drilling for Platinum down in that area.

TooSoon

My pleasure. Curiously, when I talk to my male friends about things it's clear I do way more than any of them domestically and indeed always did, though to a lesser extent before wifes EA.

I remember once, after we reconciled, my FWW went out for the night with girlfriends and I sat and did the ironing for an hour or two whilst watching tv. When she came back she made a comment about how impressed the girls were that I was at home doing this. I got very angry and upset about how I felt she and her friends were laughing at me staying at home, desperate to please a woman who had betrayed me and lied to me and who had rewritten our marriage to suit herself. My wife was horrified, she and her friends were genuinely impressed by my efforts, and when I reflected on it I realised I would only have sat watching TV anyway so why not do the ironing. I apologised to my wife for a silly reaction. But we had only been working on the marrige for a few weeks and I was a tad sensitive.

I have never got cross about it again. And from a selfish, Plan A point of view I am now much more capable of taking care of myself and my kids post-A than I was pre-A. If FWW
fails and becomes WW again, which would devestate me, I will me much better suited to Plan B.

I guess from my perspective the tedium of chores is cast aside given the fact my wife is happier. I don't believe my masculinity is in threat. If it is I shall grow a beard then shave it off to prove I can.

That and I get to play Classic Rock whilst washing up and making the kids sandwiches. Yay! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Suzet, I think that wantingtotry2 hit the nail on the head when he said that men "see" less than women. I know that is so true with my H. I see piles of junk on the kitchen table, obscuring the nice wood surface; he sees neat, organized stacks. Sigh.

I am the sole neat freak in my house. What can I say? I am of German descent with, as one of my professors once said, "A passion for order". My H and children make fun of me, but I could care less - it's a running family joke.

I'm sure you don't mean it disrespectfully, but when you say that he is "lazy, disorganized and sluggish" I have a feeling that your opinions probably come through in the way you speak to him. I could be wrong here....

Would it be possible to make an *exact* list of things you would like him to do? Rather than saying "clean the house", the list might show "vaccuum living room and clean downstairs toilets". And when he does what you ask, thank him profusely and demonstrably (SF), even if it's not done up to your specs.

I know it's tough, and I sympathize with you. My H drives around in a brand new truck packed with so much $h!t it's ridiculous. I turn a blind eye - hey, it's his car. Mine is spotless, and I'm the one who drives around the smelly, junk food junkie teenaged hockey players. The difference is that I clean it up everyday and he allow stuff to accumulate because he doesn't "see" it.

Take care and good luck.

TooSoon, thanks for your response.

I’ve read this book, so I understand what you mean. I know generally women are more concerned and perfectionist about a clean and organized house, so I also have understanding for that. It’s just SO frustrating! And I think what makes this more complex is the traditional views of the roles of H’s and W’s…and I think woman are still viewed as the primary person to take care of household duties.

This sounds very good! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> It seems there is much hope for my H then! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Sorry, but I don’t know what PW means.


To be honest, I’ve never felt comfortable with the idea to use SF as a “reward” and I’m not the type of person who like “playing games”…but I’ve recognized in the past that, after me and hubby have had a good SF (or cuddling) session <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />, he usually appears more eager or “willing” to lighten my workload around the house and then usually he is more “indulgent” towards my requests etc. Then he also appears more "loving" and "caring" towards me. So, I guess you do have a point here! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

TooSoon, I understand what you mean, but “training the H” is the other thing I have a problem with… I don’t like the idea of a W “training” her H simply because IMO the man is suppose to be the “head” of the household and the one to “lead” his wife – not the other way around. I want to look up to my H and respect him…and I don’t want to treat him like a child…and “training” him sounds like a parent-child relationship. Do you understand what I mean? Now, I won’t mind telling or showing my H HOW to do stuff around the house, but then I want him to take responsibility so that it won’t be necessary for me to “nag” him and feel like I’m dealing with a child. And after yesterday’s incident it feels exactly like this. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

No, I’m living in the Gauteng area within a city.

Suzet

Playing games, hmmmm, does leaving a paper cup on the coffee table since last Thursday count as a game????

I'm an overly anal neat freak and it's killing me, but gosh darn it, I refuse to take care of it, I have even dusted around it. MEN!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Suze, Oh how I can relate to your plight! For 13 years I have tried to get my H to pitch in with the running and cleaning of our home!
When we are doing a "saturday clean up" for instance he'll say "I'll take care of the kitchen" while I am working on another room. Next thing I know, I see H has the front of the microwave off and disassembled and he is cleaning the inner workings of it! cleaning vent fans and such! Meanwhile, the dishes are piled high, there is a floor that needs sweeping and scrubbing...ect...LOL!!! WTH??? LOL!!!

I, too, have talked, begged, cried, LB'd and seduced him to get him to help. What he "see's" and what is actually "needed" to get done are 2 different things.

During a recent talk about this sitch, H told me he just doesn't SEE the needs as I SEE them. I tried to apeal to him that I HAVE to see them. I HAVE to LOOK around at things and FIGURE it out. No one TELLS me what HAS to get done. WHY is it different for him? He said I should make him a schedule or to do list. I HAVE done this in the past and he totally blew it off, even told DD#1 SHE didn't have to do certain things on the list (because they were my things) ...this was when he was activly involved with OW....

Anyway, I asked him "What if I was hit by a bus and wasn't here any more to TELL you what to do, then what?" of course THEN he says "I'd have to figure it out" GRRRRR! LOL!

I am really looking forward to figuring this out and seeing how you can get this resolved in your marriage! If I can come up with any results I'll be sure to share with you, too!

Be Well!

Penatlykill, yes I didn’t meant it disrespectfully when I’ve described my H’s behavior, but you are up to something here… Yesterday during my exploitation, I have LB’ed big time and I've used a lot of disrespectful comments towards my H out of frustration... I know this is not good...

Yes, I can try this. You know, at least I expect my H to clean the dishes he used throughout the day before I return from work, but this rarely happens and this was the main reason for my blowout yesterday...

It sounds SO familiar!

Take care too Penaltykill and thanks for posting.

Yes Harmonie, please do! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It helps to know I’m not the only one with this dilemma!

Take care.

Hi Suzet,

You say you want your H to take 'responsibilty' and you don't want to train him, as such. Have you asked him what it is he feels he does do around the house? He may have a perception he works his butt off during the day and be stunned that you don't think he does. It may well be a man/woman communication thing. For example, I always made sure my wifes PC was up to date, fully antivirused and defragged and kept it running top notch. Bizarrely, this wasn't improtant to her. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Maybe your H has the same misguided understanding of sharing chores that I and by the sound of it TooSoon had.

As for cars, well they are very personal spaces. But after your comment I took mine to the car wash. My wife is borrowing it for the weekend and you made me realise it's in a right state. Tonight I clear the inside.

Women should never forget that men are pretty animalistic in nature and a good woman can make a man better with certain prodding. I know you are a conservative woman by nature, but don't be afraid to seduce, with grace, your husband and to reward him. It won't take long and you will have him washing windows, doing laundry, etc. His number one need is likely SF so play on it. You are married and it is perfectly fine. You don't have to do things you are not comfortable with but go the extra mile to please him and say thanks for heling me in the house. He will quickly learn the rewards he receives for the effort he has made.



I suspect your husband is more passive than you and he may need prodding. The training is a term for instilling your EN's on him and making him understand what they are. I think you have to simultaneously fill his needs too.

Why don't you test my theory a bit and don't tell him what you are up to. Whn you leave for work, give him a list to do and say to him in a flirtatious manner that you will really make it worth his while after work. If he does what you ask, go the extra mile to please him.

I think most woman do the same think and they learn how to "influence" their spouse to get what they need.

Let me know if you try it. Ask your husband about the meaning of PW, he knows. It is like a man who does anything and everything his woman wants at the click of a finger. A guy will refer to another guy as being PW. Fill in the blanks.

TooSoon

I haven’t asked him this exact question, but if I confront him about the things he don’t do, he usually said he “couldn’t find the time” or “was busy with something else” or “have visited XXX (a friend/colleague of one of the companies he is doing business with)” or whatever, but if I want to know about the finer details of his day e.g. why he couldn’t find time; what kept him so busy or how many hours have he spent with XXX, then it appears he does have a lot of free time on hand he could use…

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Well, at least something positive has come from this thread today (just joking! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />) Seriously though…the 2 cars me an my H have is the property of both of us although my H is the one driving them and although we have bought both cars on his name (I don’t have a license). So in reality the cars is personal space of both of us.

Thanks again TooSoon. I will give it a try!

From harmonie:
OMG!!! My H would do the same thing!!! Take some appliance apart and clean all the nooks and crannies while there's a pile of pots and pans that need scrubbing and a kitchen table topped with "neat piles" of [censored]!!!

I didn't know my H had a twin! LOL

Get this... my H will empty his pockets every night and leave the contents on the kitchen table. This includes trash like gum wrappers, paper straw wrappers, little tin foil candy wrappers... TRASH!!! And in the evening, he cannot be bothered to take his dirty glass/ice cream bowl/empty water bottle and put it in the dishwasher/empties container. For crying out loud, you have to go through the kitchen to get to the hallway to the bedroom! This requires NO EXTRA EFFORT!!!

And to prove he definitely "sees" things differently from me, his proposed birthday gift to me was repainting a bedroom. I couldn't give a rat's patootie about whether the bedroom is repainted. That is one domestic chore HE thinks needs to be done. Every time he has mentioned it, I have been totally ambivalent. Never mind that the basement needs to be cleaned of trash, our spare bedroom-turned-office needs to be cleaned of volumes and volumes of obsolete computer manuals so I can have room to study, etc. etc. No, he wants to paint a bedroom that has perfectly good paint on the walls already. GBH scratching her head in pure puzzlement.

Keep in mind this is a guy who lived on his own for years before I came along, and who grew up in a home that was meticulously kept up. Housework was his mom's favorite hobby.

I will never understand how the male brain works. I'm coming to the conclusion that nothing short of a very specific step-by-step honey-do list is our only hope!