Here's an update of sorts, I wasent really planning on talking withe her about the EN questionnaire, counseling or the surviving A book until i heard you replies & spoke with jennifer but as always things change.

She was in a pretty pissy mood today & was being pretty disrespectful in general. I basically told her that I would not accept such behaviour & did not deserve it, which opened the door to how things are progressing now.

I reminded her of the fact that things will not continue & at she would have to start participating in the repair of our M & need to start taking my feelings into account. As usual I got the same babble/fog speak she cant do anything until her feelings come back etc. She also started to bring up everything Id have ever done from the past, I reminded her that there were many things in her past I could bring up but the past is the past & I cant change what has happened in the past, I can only learn & move forward & not make the same mistakes. She said the past has too much of a bearing on how she is feeling right now.

The strangest thing that happened was even though she was saying all these things her demeanor had changed & she was starting to get upset & wanted to try & justify her point of view, ma bey there is a pin hole in the wall she has put up, she still wont agree to anything.

I think until I hear something different I will implement the 180 Divorce Busting strategy & see where it goes I will continue to be nice & meet what needs she will allow me but at the same time I will be preparing to move forward with my life.


Cliff

Can I ask, what is the risk of doing nothing? I too am with a fence sitter. I think I have decided to do nothing. My biggest fear is that, now with OM so far away, she will start a new affair. The is a risk I am willing to take in my particular case.

It sounds like things are not all that bad. Don't really know. Why do you feel you need to force this? In my case, if I look at it objectively, my living situation is not all that bad. Actually pleasant overall. I wish WW were a FWW and in love with me again. She just has that darn free will getting in the way. Hate that.

What is the downside of doing nothing? The biggest downside for me is that I don't have a lot of patience. Whatever the reason WW is with you, she is STILL with you. Everyone tells me that favors eventual recovery.

Orchid: Tempted doesn't mean ready. Get yourself a plan 1st. Talk with Jennifer ASAP. Check out the D options and get yourself financially safe. If she is babbling 2 u about your past, expect her to take you to the cleaners. The law often isn't fair to the BSH. If the A is a factor in the A and can be named as such, do so.


Orchid: Changes happen all the time. Sometimes by the minute and second. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />


Orchid: Ver good response from u.


Orchid: Typical WS attitude. Best thing is to let them babble and ask.....do you REALLY believe what you just said. If I said that to you, would you buy into such babble? That would establish her babbling. Once you do that, you will take the steam out of her A tactic. It will lessen her ability to throw her guilt on you. Notice how it is ok for her to bring up your past but her's doesn't count? Hm..... sounds very WSish. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />


Orchid: Also, please read Love must be tough by Dr. James Dobson. A critical tactic to use is to keep the WS off balance. That is why it is critical to know when you are communicating with the WS vs your W. Remember your W should understand why u r taking the high road. The WS will just get pissed.

It is also vital you pray and obtain a clear mind and a calm heart. Lots of patience will help you survive.

U seem t/b doing fine. Keep up the good work. Love your children. Build up your personal support group.

take care,
L.

CN, how transparent is your wife's NC ? Reads like she's still in touch to me. All that justification and entitlement talk makes me suspicious.

What worked for me was Pep's patent seduction plan. I *ALWAYS* looked and smelled good, always had a smile on my face, went out with friends looking GREAT, backed off all sexual contact to being platonic while ramping up my EN meeting. Slept on top of the sheets wearing funky diesel boxers etc etc.

Squid lasted a couple month sbefore she ravished me and the 'feelings' started to come back. Let 'er know she can't assume your permanence through your actions, not flirty or revenge A behaviour, ust attractive behaviour.

Orchid: Ok Bob, me thinks that's more than we need to know 'bout u. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> I gotta get some rest, I have this weird pix about a british gentleman w/'funky diesel boxers'. Hope I don't talk in my sleep. LOL!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />


Orchid: I am not sure how Squid could have lasted that long with out smellin' sooo good and being soo funky. LOL!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

Ok, back to business.....C, pay attention to what Bob is telling you. In between all that funkiness, Bob did a lot of work to help his Squid pull out of the fog. His manner maybe funky but his results were great. Don't knock it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

take care,
L.

Thanks everyone I will ck into my options & try to get a hold of Jennifer this week, I live in ca where the reasons for a D don't really matter & they are in my opinion very sympathetic to women, I will prepare as much as I can for A D & I have decided to try & wait things out until her job situation stabilises, our kids are both old enough to decide who to go with & Im pretty sure they will chose her because they can get over on her & get what they want.

Im having the hardest time with emotional support, I don't really have anyone to turn to, these boards help but one of my biggest EN is feeling cared about & that tank has been empty for a long time now.

thanks for your suggestions if I can make it time will probably heal things, I just don't know if Im strong enough to wait that long.


Cliff

You live in CA? Ok, well Redhat lives in CA and as a BSH, he has full custody of his children. He maybe able to lend some guidance and support. I will call him tomorrow.

L.

Cliff,


Sorry buddy. But I have to disagree with Orchid on this one. Sounds to me like you let yourself get a little defensive and may have missed a valuable opportunity to learn a few things about your W and what she wants/needs from you. Here's what I mean:

By chance, is one of your W's past/present complaints that you don't listen to her? If so, what do you think she took away from that conversation? Unless you're leaving out important details for the sake of brevity, my guess is, she's thinking something along the lines of... "See, he hasn't changed, he still doesn't listen to me or care about my POV. I try to bring up problems/feelings and he just wants to sweep it under the rug and move on."

Listen, Cliff, I'm not trying to beat you up here. Nor am I suggesting that you had to agree with anything she said... or defend yourself... or apologize for anything. I'm saying, when she started unloading about 'everything you'd ever done' it might have been more effective for you to just listen -- LISTEN, AFFIRM, AND ASK QUESTIONS. Such as: "So when I did this, it made you feel that?" "How come that bothered you so much?" "It really hurt you that much when I.... (fill in the blank)?" "Wow, I never realized how much that bothered you. I think I get it now." "Are there any other things I've done that made you feel that way?" "I can hear how frustrated/sad/angry that made you."

Is it easy to do that when you're feeling attacked? No. It's darn hard. In fact, you might have to play some mind tricks on yourself to get through it, like pretending she's talking about someone else. But I honestly think it could go a long way toward jump-starting your recovery.

You've been frustrated that she won't fill out the EN questionaire. I think you may have missed a valuable opportunity here to gather some clues about her needs. She may not know what her needs are. Or she may not feel comfortatble stating them. But embedded in her complaints -- I would bet good money -- are clues about what her needs are. If you can learn to listen to those complaints, you may be able to uncover those clues and use them to meet her needs without ever doing the paperwork.

What's done is done. But maybe you'll get another opportunity. Or... if you think it would work... maybe you could go to her and try to get the conversation going again.
Say something like, "You know, I've been thinking about what you said about (pick one thing), and I guess I never really understood how much that bothered you..." And then be quiet. See where it leads.

I think the fact that she's talking at all is a good sign.

Hang in there.

--SC