I don't know if I can take the lying of the A anymore... she knows I know and yet still denies it...

She lies to me... point blank and I know it and let her know...

The extreme rollercoaster is getting too much for my emotions to handle.

She is gone this weekend... at relatives ( OM is close by the area... I know this)

She has been very sweet and communicative as of late....

Last night she calls... " well we got some movies and Im going to bed after that, so I will call you in the morning... I LOVE YOU... bye..."

That was at 7pm..... at 10pm I hop online, my 12yr old son is on IM and says hi to me from the relatives house...

"Mom sleeping?"

No... she is out with so and so or so and so... ( girlfriends) Both names given are 100 miles+ away in either direction)

"Ok.. well I love you and see you when you all get back"

Ok Dad.... love you.... night"

HOW DO I DEAL WITH THIS?!?!?!

I have just about had it and so has my heart....

So I put up my walls and shut her out to keep from getting hurt?

Do I still 'play the game'( keeping my emotions out of it) of loving her and showing her that? ( not a good choice of words, but I want to protect my heart and love for her)

I know its like a competition of OM and me for EN's but she has blocked me out of that area of her life....

Help me...... Im ready to throw in the towel and forget trying to make this work....

Hi lost,

Plan A consists of many things that should be done simultaneously. Stop love busting, fill needs the WS will allow....but don't forget that confrontation and exposure are how you address an ongoing affair.

When your wife says sweetly "darling, I'm going to watch movies and go to bed." Confrontation might be something like "I know that isn't true, and I'm not sure who you've become when you lie so sweetly to me. Please don't treat me as though I'm stupid. Do the ethical thing and stay home, and when we get together, we'll try and figure out what the next step should be." What exposure have you done? Plan A is not about being NICE or allowing her to continue her affair uncontested.

Hi Lost, Sorry you are here. Her actions are hurtful and devastating to you. We need some more info, maybe it is on another thread. How long have you been married? Are you still living together? Are you in Plan A? And, the standard, have you read Surviving an Affair and the basics on this website?

Hang in there.

Hi Lost:
I don't know your entire story, I'm sorry this is happening to you.
The niceness thing is actually a coverup as you already know~pretend all is ok, you love your spouse keep telling them what they want to hear to keep things "safe" so the lying may continue.
I'm the bad guy here, I've been doing a lot of lurking and reading, all I can tell you if she doesn't want to stop it won't stop. The other person is like a drug addiction and she needs that fix. You need to tell her that you know she is lying about her whereabouts and you know what she is really doing point blank. Pretending is not going to make it go away and although you know that she is in such a trance with the OM that she doesn't care. She only cares about how the A is making her feel and at the moment it must be feeling pretty good for she is still doing it.
I don't know if some of us WS'S can find our way out of the fog or even care to.

Ditto with what Star has said. The first thing you need to do is start being radically honest with her AND creating an environment where she can be honest with you (so she'll say "I'm going out to boink the OM"). Response to that would be that you're not in enthusiastic agreement with this (POJA language), and would you perhaps prefer to go out with me to get pizza? Or how 'bout a trip to Hawaii? Throw out alternatives, allow her to suggest ones as well. When she decides to go anyway (which is usually what happens with addicts), you politely let her know that this isn't OK with you---and as Star says, you'll sit down with her and try to figure out a plan forward.

Plan A is about negotiating to end the affair. The negotiations need to be respectful and you need to be willing to address issues you bring to the marriage (hence you address lovebusters and attempt to meet EN's)---but it is a negotiation to end the affair, and this has to be discussed openly and honestly.

Shattered, you've recieved some good advice that I won't repeat but I would add this. First and foremost, read as much as you can on the main portion of this site. The forum is great but we are not the experts, the Harley's are.

Secondly, you needed to be in full plan A mode starting today!! As near as I could figure out anyway, in it's simplist form Plan A is really just about being the best you that you possibly can be. Some key points of that are to allow your giver to take over while putting your taker side on hold and eliminating LBing to the best of your ability. This was an extremely difficuly concept to get my arms around but eventually I just went with it and let me tell you IT CAN WORK!! it saved my M.

Keep in mind that you will have to set boundaries for self protection but it's time to win you W back.

Hang in there and always remember IT'S A GREAT DAY TO BE ALIVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You need to get some proof and expose the affair.

Can you afford a GPS tracking device?

I have exposed it.... I tell here constantly not to lie about it and just face facts... that I know. She is standing her ground in denial. She wants out of the M after 15years and 4 children... she is unhappy with my past behavior, which I am in councelling over at the present.

At this point I cannot tolerate what she is doing... lying and then being nice to me... we are still under the same roof and share a bed, but thats about it.... Im trying to steer clear as not to 'smother' her... I let her go....I NEED to let her be her own person and chose for herself... its her choice and I cannot FORCE her into any decisions as I have tried to in the past.

I don't know where this is going... small talk is just plain BULL..... she sometimes acts like all is ok.... then she wants to talk....we get serious into it, not yelling or LBing, just talking, understanding and comprehending one another... until she has had enuf... then all stops.....too much for her to handle... then the niceness kicks in and we go back to the FAKE FUNK for the kids....

She got papers on Thursday... I wouldn;t since its HER CHOICE... Im about to give up.... get on with my life... its hurting too much to idley sit back and watch it all go on...... I pray for strength, but don't feel any at times.... I know God is there, but sometimes seems so far away when Im in pain.....

Im about to take my ring off..... I love her so much.....

How long has all of this been going on?

Lost,

I am sorry that you are in this situation, but you have come to a good place to get help. I was standing in the kitchen this morning, drinking coffee and marveling at what a "regular" moment it was....it was not like that two years ago...I was going through what you are going through now.

The lying is really hard to take....I would go to work and my FWH who is retired would go to be with OW twice a week...he would always lie about his whereabouts...but I knew because of my snooping. He would not give be nice to me afterwards...he would LB me big time. I got through like so many MB'ers got through....plan A where I could for as long as I could and not LB him back....then went to Plan B TWICE.

I know it hurts so much...but you can get your WS back...it will take work and patience and alot of introspection...you have alot going for you and you may not know it...you are the person who is capable of filling her needs. have kids which will help to draw her back....you have already started to expose (which for me...there were only a few people to expose...we have no family or work friends)...you still care for WS which means alot.

I understand about the taking your ring off....I struggled with that one alot also....FWH noticed when I did that....once when he left for a trip alone....I did also and left my ring at home....when I came home, he accused me of having an A! Wow, talk about fog?

Lost, this is a hard experience.....I understand the hurt.....I just want to encourage you to come here to vent and hang in there with Plan A without LB's. It is a road back and there will be a day when you are standing in your kitchen, drinking coffee and marvel at the "regular" moment. Peace will come again. ss

When you are having too much trouble dealing with the day-in, day-out affair stuff, you have a couple of choices:

1. Get some antidepressants and see if they can help even out the emotional rollercoaster

2. Put yourself in a Plan B phase (separated). This will be traumatic at first (and potentially harder on you if you leave the kids), but it would eventually remove the day-to-day harm that the affair is having on you and the love for your wife.

There's tons of good info on Plan B, should you decide to go that way. It would be terrific if your wife would move out, but it can be effective even if you are the one who leaves.

I appreciate the words of encouragement....

I found out of OM when snooping thru the cell bill... I knew prior, but needed proof... her actions spoke the truth.... Jan 31st was the day the first 153 minute phone converstation took place.... its been wedging apart since... we do have a rocky history....but made it thru all of it, but never got to the root of the problems. That is why we are back in the drowning pool again.

I have so much to say ( the TAKER) and I will not say it because I love her ( the Giver), but how is she supposed to know... I have locked my emotions from her, not cold... but almost like roomates... she even said she doesnt see me as her husband anymore becuase I 'parented' her for so many years. She was very dependant on me in the early years, and that grew into control.... I don't want to control her, I really don't.... but she let me so often and so long, thats its hard not to kepp trying.. but I have been doing very well, despite the A and OM...

I am in councelling for my behavior now.... changing slowly, but its very difficult for me and I have told her that. I need to come to terms with me before I can come to terms with the marriage.

We cannot separate... ( move apart_) financially impossible. I am the sole bread-winner for our family. Once (IF) she files, Im putting the house up for sale, If we stay together we will start over from scratch... if we go our separate ways.... we will BOTH start from scratch... I have no other choice but to go this route. I don't want to..... but its the only way to survive financially, not that matters without her.....

LOA, how do you show her? Remember you made her fall in love with you once and in time and with luck you do it all over again. Like I said before, start out by being the best you you can be. Right now that's all you can do.

Currently her Love Bank is not excepting your deposits but in time it will.

Then in time you work towards ending her A. That is the ultimate goal so you can truly work on your M.

How do I show her.... well... I respect her in every way I can... stay out of her way... tell her that I love her and committed... I do things around the house without needing to be asked.... make dinner AFTER I come home from 14-16 hours days.... Im there for her when she wants to talk.... tell her how nice she looks in whatever she is wearing.... and so on....

I can honestly say that the respect level on both parts have increased... 'Excuse me'.... 'thank you' 'that was nice'... ect....

But it means absolutely NOTHING when Im completely shut out of her life.... she is gone right now..... not coming home til Monday... I have not heard from her since 6:30 pm Friday night.... I know where she is (with OM), but I dare not call.... just shows the 'controlling behavior' I am so trying to kill within me....

In time..... huh? love bank is closed to me... this I know.... she has told me so... As I recall... we are nothing more than ROOMATES.... with children. Time is running out for me.....my heart is growing cold and sometimes I wonder if its even worth my efforts......

Well.... she called last night.... wasn't too bad of a conversation, but mostly small talk....nothing about us, except her making HER own choices...

I found more proof of the A or maybe its more than one since what I found proves once again that she is lying to me.... not sure yet.... but that doesnt matter much... one is wrong enuf...

Im trying really hard to maintain the GIVER in me and being nice and calm, but its so hard at times with emotions running wild in my heart and mind.

She called this morning and we were talking as if nothing is wrong... I maintained my calmness and the call went good, depsite the fact that I was fuming inside... she had no idea.

What is your plan?

Do you have a concrete plan?

Do you have a marriage coach?

If not, time to get one!

If you can't afford one, there are many kind folks who will guide you here...again, PRO'S ARE BEST! Try to get one if you can.

Start with an impeccable plan A. Learn and read all you can here. Set a DISTINCT TIME LIMIT FOR IT..

Where you're at now, seems like you're trying a plan A.

I'd MEMORIZE CARROT AND STICK OF PLAN A.

part of A is exposure.

You can be kind right back at your wS...while exposing.

The affair is alive b/c it is SHROUDED IN SECRECY AND CAREFULLY GUARDED.

Ever read "Davinci code"...???

I liken the WS/OP protecting their affair almost as forceful as how the Knights Templar guarded their "secret" for hundreds of years...went to wars for it...and lied and kept it underground.

Blow the secret sky high!

You can tell the truth. TRUTH IS NOT LOVEBUSTING...

Lost...you did GOOD....WS called this morning and you remained calm even though you were fuming and could have LB'd her all over the place....it sounds as if you protected her from yourself.....good one, Lost. This is a very emotional time and very often the only emotion that males feel safe to use is anger which is not a useful tool with WS's. You feel like blasting WS when they are stupid and selfish like kids...but it drives them away.

I hear you say that you are trying to do alot of the right things and that is good. Plan A forced me to focus on H...really focus on H's needs. As an example, I spent my time giving him domestic support when what he really wanted was my recreational companionship. I would guess your WS's top needs might be conversation...so you spent time talking with her...good job.....what do you think might be her other needs...affection? Honesty?

You did good this morning, Lost. Keep building in Plan A as long as you can protect her from yourself. Maybe you can plan something fun with the kids...ask her along...if she refuses, go anyway and show the kids a good time and have fun. She will notice even though she doesn't participate. Something like that is a solid Plan A and family-building contribution...two shots in one activity.

Also, during Plan A...I took up working out for the first time in my life...it helped me to burn off energy....it might work for you.

Hang in there...Lost....you are doing some good things and must save energy for the long haul. ss

My plan is to win my WW back if its possible..... I have LB'd alot in the past.... my behaviors are now changing in light of my emotions trying to rule me.

Some of the things she has said to me.... in somewhat of an order as they were said over about a 5-7 day period.. I took notes to reflect back on when Im really emotional and want to LB...

"I'm hurting so much I'm shut down from you..."

"Hard to let someone in when I'm hurting.." (still in denial that I know of OM)

"I don't know what the future holds..."

"I'm guarding myself from you since you hurt me.."

"You have controlled me and damaged me mentally, my self-esteem is shot, I feel I cannot make my own decisions.."

"It's vey hard and scarry to do things on my own..."

" I felt parented, not like we were partners... you controlled me..."

" You always grill me of various topics, what I wear, where I'm going.... too controlling..."

" You have said things to me that hurt vey badly and I returned those feelings... I feel I was never treated equal in our marriage....IT COULD BE TOO LATE..."

"My hurt has turned to resentment of what you did ( my ONS) in 94....that really screwed me up in the head and blew my vision of what marriage was... its now just a contract on paper..."

" I cannot deal with all this emotionally... its too much for me..."

" You damaged me when I was young in our marriage and very impressionable..."

" I stayed in the past for the kids, you scared me into staying by saying those aweful things to me..." ( I did say alot of mean and hateful things to her, I admit)

" I am very cautious about running back..."

" I'm trying to be careful with my decisions to figure out what I want..."

JUST THIS MINUTE (25 minutes) WE TALKED AGAIN ( 3rd time she called this morning... YAY!!!)

These was her thoughts....

" I am softening towards you because I can see that you are not trying to control me any longer and giving me space, I see improvement, but very leary because we have been here before...Im not getting sucked back in..."

"Im glad you are in councelling, I hope that you can change your behaviors..."

" I really don't want our families to know we are having problems.... it just complicates things even more and then I will be even more resentful and run when they try ot give me advice.... AND... IF THINGS DO WORK OUT, I DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH ILL-FEELING FROM FAMILY MEMBERS.."


Sometimes its easy to deal with WW on the phone, others its deadly on my heart and mind with emotions wrapped in.. but I am doing much better... when we talk like this, I get calm and loving and open up and listen and comprehend what she says to me.....

I am in competition, this I know... I am taking this day by day... some good some bad.. others... HORRID.... today is ok so far....

I'm doing alot around the house to keep me busy today with my son... ( she has the other 3 with her)

I have not laid out a timeline as of yet... I cannot predict my heart and feelings a week from now- much less tomorrow... if I could, then I would set a timeline....

Being that I have ( had) a controlling nature, its difficult ground to travel to put a timeline together- I would be accuse of trying to control her decisions- once again.....

Keep me in prayer....

You might tell her that you don't want to get sucked back into the old marriage, that you want a much better one, too.

Continue telling her that you are sorry for your actions in the past, but know better now.