Welcome to the
Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum

This is a community where people come in search of marriage related support, answers, or encouragement. Also, information about the Marriage Builders principles can be found in the books available for sale in the Marriage Builders® Bookstore.
If you would like to join our guidance forum, please read the Announcement Forum for instructions, rules, & guidelines.
The members of this community are peers and not professionals. Professional coaching is available by clicking on the link titled Coaching Center at the top of this page.
We trust that you will find the Marriage Builders® Discussion Forum to be a helpful resource for you. We look forward to your participation.
Once you have reviewed all the FAQ, tech support and announcement information, if you still have problems that are not addressed, please e-mail the administrators at mbrestored@gmail.com
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 43
D
DeeGee Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
D
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 43
Here's the background info: Dday was Nov.20th or so.
My GF & I have a 14mo old DS. We've been trying to develop our relationship toward marriage for over 2 years now and along comes the OM in September 05. XGF straddled the fence, chose me & agreed to NC w/ OM, then chose OM on Jan 20th. I've been doing a Plan 180 & limited plan A by working on me, moving on with my life, staying busy and being happy/fun when I'm around her. She's been increasingly interested in what I've been doing, asking lots of questions about who I'm seeing (no one) and why I've always "got plans" when she wants me to watch DS on short notice. I haven't given her many details and she's curious.

She asked me to watch DS monday night b/c she was tired. I said ok. The next morning she refused to pick up DS at my house and made me drive 60 miles total to drop him off all the while being mad at me me about this! ??? I was doing her a favor and somehow I’m the bad guy and a "stupid idiot" for expecting her to pick up DS like she said she would do the night before. She said she was going to her mom's house to get some rest, but ended up at the OM's for the night. So it's comfirmed - it's now physical with him.

I need to follow some good advice I heard somewhere: “If you want to get someone’s attention…whisper.” Tuesday I shouted b/c I was extremely mad at her. I now feel like its all ruined b/c of my email.

I sent this email to her, OM, her mom and a few of our friends. This same day I met the OM's dad and exposed to him. BTW, OM lives with hid dad and XGF stayed the night there last night. XGF has slept there with DS too. I shared my side of the story and asked for his help, that I want my family and that cannot happen with his son in the picture. He said he didn't want to get in the middle but asked alot of questions about XGF & me and why we didn't get married. I told him what I thought were the reasons and that we were making great progress until Sept when his son started heavily pursuing my then GF. i told him I wanted to marry her and was planning to propose on V-day. We talked for 20 min & it ended by shaking hands, thanking him and him saying he would talk to his son, but makes no promises of any outcome. He said he hopes XGF & I can work it out, esp. b/c we have DS and he didn't want any child to have to suffer. I thanked him again & left.

Here's the email:

Quote
XGF,

You say to me today: “You’re a stupid idiot”. Maybe I am after thinking about things.

Stupid:
1. Slow to learn or understand; obtuse.
2. Tending to make poor decisions or careless mistakes.
3. Marked by a lack of intelligence or care; foolish or careless: a stupid mistake.
4. Dazed, stunned, or stupefied.
5. Pointless; worthless.

Idiot:
1. A person of subnormal intelligence
2. A person of profound mental retardation having a mental age below three years and generally being unable to learn connected speech or guard against common dangers.

To all:
I would like to apologize to everyone for being stupid in believing in a fairytale dream about making a life for XGF, DS and myself.

To XGF:
I studied my butt off and earned an Engineering degree and I studied some more and earned a Master’s degree. But you say that I’m a stupid idiot. Maybe so; if I had only thought of going to college for something easy like philosophy or English, but I didn’t think of that.

I’ve been planning, saving, investing, tithing and giving since I got my first job at age 15. But you say that I’m a stupid idiot. I hate to think of all the things I could have blown my money on instead. OM has a philosophy degree and got his first job at age 27. Why didn’t I think of doing that? Between graduating with the “ultra difficult” philosophy degree and starting his first job years later; OM allegedly lived solely on his girlfriend’s income. But you say that I’m a stupid idiot, maybe so because I never thought of a relationship like that and have free sex too! I could kick myself for not thinking of how I could live life like that.

You said you were so tired last night and it is all you can do to stay awake b/c DS get’s up so early and it’s so tiring b/c he’s into everything. I’m glad you asked me to watch him last night so you “could head up to your mom’s house, go to bed early and get some rest”. You say I’m a stupid idiot and I think you truly believe I am for me believe you’d be at your mom’s last night. When we were together for those 2 years, I never thought of using someone else like this to watch DS so that you could “get some” rest at my house. Wow, its like it never occurred to me you’d lie about staying at OM’s last week/ last night/ whenever - even though we all know it happens on a regular basis. OM’s so smart to get you to lie for his “benefit”. I never thought I could use other people to watch DS like this or is it just me?

Speaking of OM’s benefit; you said according to OM, 50% of his relationship is sex. The question that begs to be answered is “what is the other 50% to him?” Home made videos? It looks to me and others that are familiar with the details, that it is pursuing women who can financially benefit him and give him sex? But what do I know? You say that I’m a stupid idiot; I guess others are as stupid as I am. Perhaps he is growing up, after all he has found a suga’ momma that is debt free and has money to spare [on him] – a little now, a whole lot more later. He knows he’ll need the financial resources as his “responsibility” has taken him from job to job. But you say that I’m a stupid idiot. I cannot believe I didn’t think of sneaking after your money when we dated. I am so stupid I got it all wrong; I was trying to help you reach your financial goals so that you could stay at home with DS.

You say that $ince meeting you, OM now wants to begin to be responsible (at age 35) and is situating/positioning himself accordingly – to be a supporting husband for you and a dad for DS. Oh yeah, you can bet your money he is. Good for him, most of us matured and accepted responsibility for our own welfare like this somewhere in our late teens/ early twenties. But why now for OM to decide on changing his tested, tried and true program of stress free living and ducking responsibilities? What’$ $o $pecial about you that he want’$ to ¢hange his poor/ financially insufficient lifestyle for this new “responsible” life$tile? He mu$t $ee $omething $pecial in you. I bet he ¢ling$ to you come ****** or high water. You’re a sure bet for him. But you say that I’m a stupid idiot. You’re right, I feel so stupid too for not planning my finances that well.

Remember in November when we picked out our house together and then I bought that new house to start our life together? You said that you “loved it; it’s perfect for us.” You’re right; I am a stupid idiot for buying a house for us to live in. After OM’s previous cash cow girlfriend left, he ran out of money, moved from his cheap rental house and lives in his DAD’s house “to save some money” (He’s 35 for goodness’ sake and still lives at home). It’s amazing; I never considered that I could still live with my parents and not have to worry about providing a house for myself or for us? OMG, I’m so stupid; expensive house payment vs. next to nothing in rent and still sleep in a warm bed each night? And better yet have my girlfriend and her son spend the night at my dad’s house too. What was I thinking to buy you, DS and myself a new house? Heck we could have just lived with your mom and saved money too.

You now have a 401k with over $14,000 saved in less than two years worth of investments. Not bad when 2+2=4 (see below for OM’s rational that 2+2=5 is really what provides happiness). I’m sorry I pushed you to do that b/c I’m a stupid idiot. I need to pay attention to OM more, he’s pushing you for custody papers and child support from me. You know I love DS and want to support him in every way possible. Hmm, but wait a minute; I’m going to step out on a limb and try to apply some new knowledge here… If I were OM, what would I do to get out of this problem? I guess being supportive and cooperative with my ex-wife concerning our kids is not a good example of how I want to treat you and DS. Gosh I’m so stupid for trying to live my historic and factual example with my ex-wife before you. OM predicts I’m going to fight you in court, it’s going to be very ugly, and that you better hire the best attorney you can get so that you’ll get everything you’re entitled to. (Never mind the fact that I’ve never been to a custody battle in court over my kids but have always tried to see what’s best for them). But child support does trickle down into the purse and would be more money for OM too after all.

You maximized your homeowner and flood insurance claims and received enough money to pay off your house. I’m sorry for being so stupid in suggesting/helping you do this. I was only trying to help. If I were OM, I’d have broken my car back then and have you to buy us both new cars and new clothes with all that money. I’m so stupid for giving you such bad advice. I’m sorry I didn’t encourage you to get the new car you’ve been wanting.

You’re now totally debt free. Again, I’m sorry for being so stupid in crimping your spending money so often. Maybe if I didn’t look at the future so much I could have seen that it’s better to live for today, like OM does. Carpe diem! Debt and payments are ok and don’t matter; you can pay those later because it’s buying today that’ll make you happy. OM knows that; why didn’t I think using that philosophy? I’m so stupid! Lucky for you that he’s there to save you, before I “made” you to do something really crazy with your money.

Your rental house is now renting for $975/month profit and has good tenants that will take care of the place. But you say that I’m a stupid idiot, so I think you should follow OM’s advice and once I get the leased signed with the new tenants, then yank the manager responsibility away from me and give it to OM. He’s so smart at getting things to work out for him. Now that he’s all up in you and your business; I’m certain he’s smart enough to not kill the goose that delivers the golden eggs. He’s not going to let anything happen to you as long as he sees you producing eggs.

I’ve succeeded in setting up a life and salary so that you could have been a stay at home mom in that new house I purchased for us. But you say that I’m a stupid idiot. If I were OM, what should I do instead? Hmm, I’m going to go out on another limb here… Maybe I’ll run for political office. I could devote 50% of my job to screwing lots of people (my constituents) and devote the other 50% of my time raising their taxes so I could get more money from the same ones I’m screwing. Has OM even talked about running for Mayor?

I read relationship books so that I can learn & develop habits and a lifestyle that build up you, my children and others by learning the skills to be a better husband, father, and friend. But you say I’m a stupid idiot.

OM wrote to me that relationship books force people into doing unnatural things. He states that relationship counselors are like auto mechanics, but people aren’t broken cars – so why go to a mechanic?; that if two people cannot figure it out by themselves then it’s not going to work anyway. He suggests that love coupons are pathetic. OM’s answer to relationship books is that he reads literature and twists the meaning to hurt others [me] by quoting Edgar Allen Poe’s “The Amontillado” & putting up brick wall pictures and pictures of an angry guy throwing flowers with the quote “About love: its perfect, no?” when you decided to break up with me. Why would OM want to “hurt” me? B/c he wanted to rub my nose in it because he “won” and has you. But you say I’m the stupid idiot. I’ll try to twist words around too.

I am a Christian and you say that I’m so stupid. OM’s an atheist (I know philosophers would rather be called agnostic- but it’s really the same thing – there is no God except self). OM’s got all the answers so even if Christian values are good, he asks “why believe in a God?” OM wrote that for himself “love is god”.

I responsibly left my job [also where XGF & OM worked] with plenty of notice. My boss hated to see me leave and wrote an excellent letter of recommendation to my new employer. OM gave his notice on Feb 6th and walked out a few days later b/c his boss told him to do his job. OM irresponsibility quit and walked out b/c he hates authority. But you say that I’m a stupid idiot. I’m taking note on how to be more of a free spirit and create less stability in my work & personal life.

You told me I’ve done NOTHING wrong in our relationship. I think you’re right b/c I’ve done just what the relationship books – books that you used to read & wanted Pete (her XBF of 4-years) to read, said to do and attempted to meet your needs so that you/we would have a comfortable and happy life. But you say that I’m a stupid idiot. Was Pete a stupid idiot too? What did he do that caused you to leave him for me, and now you’ve left me for OM? I’ve always felt bad about my behavior 2+ years ago and still do now. I hope this is not a pattern developing for you. I still cannot predict what OM’s pattern may be. Some people call such things a generational curse – I guess they mean our kids learn from our behaviors and repeat them in their lives. You said my pattern is predictable; I’m ok with stability and predictability. OM, however, gloats that he “won” his prize and you choose him over me. I’m so stupid, I should be gloating too. I’ll think about this some more and what I can learn from the various ways things keep playing out. I appreciate OM for showing me this. You and he figured it out for us – I feel like I’m a stupid idiot and feel sure that I would have kept on believing in us and a fairytale that you said you wanted too.

Even though I knew about OM (and even asked him face to face that he stop pursuing you b/c we were trying to build our relationship toward a marriage (by the way he said “No” to my request and stepped up his pursuit of you), I still pursued you after you broke up with me to date OM. You say “I didn’t break up with you b/c of him” – whatever! You can read the posts below where he pursued you while you dated me and then you’re dating him the very evening you broke up with me – again whatever!, it does not matter anymore – you choose him. Back then I chose to believe in you; I chose to believe in us and you say today that I’m a stupid idiot. Maybe so, but I’m not stupid anymore. The depth of the lies, your disbelief that you are lying, and your belief of finding your “ideal person” in OM wasn’t funny when you told me “I can’t stop thinking about him” when you were dating me, but its funny to me now. Congratulations to you both.

You can pull a person up, but it’s much, much easier for them to pull you down. OM has done a good job bringing us up to his superior, albeit unconventional, outlook on life.

In OM’s own words:
the goal with my hair is to appear as cartoonish as possible
cartoons
immaturity
kindergarten
they all run together

To OM: Well said. I admire your philosophy and taking on life in a cartoonish way. You have taught me something that “love” blinded me from seeing about XGF and her repeating actions and belief that “only someone CRAZY would be happy that 2+2=5. that's kind of chaotic” but then she’s been acting crazy lately and her life seems somewhat chaotic. You figured it out for me/us and you may have been the savior in preventing me from making an error. Thank you.

To all: Let me say once again that I apologize for being stupid, that is, “slow to learn or understand”, as I believed too long in a fairytale dream - but I’m starting to catch on quickly. Do I still love XGF? Of course I do, well, sort of - I love who I thought she was and always will. But I don’t bring out or see the best in her anymore.

Take care,
BS

Below are quotes and text from OM’s live journal website, but it’s since been hidden from public view.

OM Posted: October 23th 10:30pm
{Here OM is talking about love to my then GF – way back in October. Please note the update where he suggests that she fly away to someone new. Who says he wasn’t chasing her? That’s a bunch of bull. D-day was just before Thanksgiving}

2 variations on a theme (love)

1) I think of the postmodern attitude as that of a man who loves a very cultivated woman and knows that he cannot say to her, 'I love you madly', because he knows that she knows (and that she knows that he knows) that these words have already been written by Barbara Cartland. Still, there is a solution. He can say, 'As Barbara Cartland would put it, I love you madly.' At this point, having avoided false innocence, having said clearly that it is no longer possible to speak innocently, he will nevertheless have said what he wanted to say to the woman: that he loves her, but he loves her in an age of lost innocence. If the woman goes along with this, she will have received a declaration of love all the same. Neither of the two speakers will feel innocent, both will have accepted the challenge of the past, of the already said, which cannot be eliminated, both will consciously and with pleasure play the game of irony... But both will have succeeded, once again, in speaking of love. -ue
2) john lennon - love

lets all fly away to
somewhere, no make that, someone new...
XGF replied: @ October 26th 10:20am
YOU are a romantic?! hmmmm That's a lovely song.

New OM Post: @ Oct 29th 11:21pm
2+2=5 Thinking is the enemy of feeling
2+2=4 is a terrific thing.
theres no disputing that.
but sometimes 2+2=5 makes me happy...
XGF replied: Thinking vs.feeling Oct 30th 8:36am
I prefer to think of it as Checks and Balances
as for your arithmetic. . . only someone CRAZY would be happy that 2+2=5. that's kind of chaotic
New OM Post:
notes from the underground Oct 30th 5:23pm
let the lover be disgraceful, crazy, absent-minded
someone sober will worry about events going badly
let the lover be
-rumi
"only someone CRAZY would would happy that 2+2=5. that's kind of chaotic"
do i really have to spell it all out for you?
XGF answered:
Re: notes from the underground. Oct 30th 7:08pm
well, yes. i really wish you would spell it out, actually. call me CRAZY but i really dont think you CAN explain it.

So how can I recover without pissing her off any more? I know the short answer is give it some time, but should I do anything except remain quiet & watch? She called my cell phone but I didn’t answer. I also learned she called in sick & didn't show up for work. I haven't heard from her since she read the email , except for the one call.


Love never fails. Me 34 Divorced GF 29 Never married DS 1 What a treasure!
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 43
D
DeeGee Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
D
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 43
I sent the above email on Tuesday and have worried about it for two days now.

I sent an apology to everyone except the OM this afternoon (Thursday).

Email:
To All (again):
I feel very awkward having to write this apology, but I cannot continue another moment knowing I caused each of you to feel both distressed and embarrassed. I want to publicly and sincerely apologize for my hurtful actions and contentious email on Tuesday. I apologize for placing each of you in the middle of a situation of which you did not want to be involved. I apologize for letting my irritation override my use of common sense.

My words were unacceptable and deplorable. No matter how hurt or angry a person feels it is never justifiable to voice things as I did nor is it permissible to drag other persons into another’s private life. I apologize to you each for stirring up your own feelings of anger toward me for my actions. I accept full responsibility for my lapse of concern for your feelings and humbly ask for your forgiveness for my thoughtless and intolerable activity.

Shamefaced and humbly yours,
D


Now what? Is there any hope?
Please offer some advice.


Love never fails. Me 34 Divorced GF 29 Never married DS 1 What a treasure!
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 6,937
K
K Offline
Member
Offline
Member
K
Joined: Dec 1969
Posts: 6,937
DeeGee:

Exposure is good. Your email was horrible. I'd advise that you post those kind of things for review BEFORE you send them.

There's always hope. If you can afford it, the phone counseling here is terrific (888-639-1639), and you'll get solid advice on how to proceed. You're using too many "mixed metaphores" with regard to a plan (Plan A, 180, silently ignore, etc.)---the one thing you must do is act in a consistent manner to demonstrate to your wayward spouse that coming back is a reasonable option. You want to act, not react! If you're going to do this via MarriageBuilders---then it's Plan A. Buy "Surviving an Affair" and read up on it.

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 43
D
DeeGee Offline OP
Member
OP Offline
Member
D
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 43
K, Thank you for your honest thoughts about my email. I think it was horrible too. At the time I was very angry b/c it's now confirmed it's physical. All common sense went out the window that day, but it did expose what was going on. For that single reason I'm glad it went out.

XGF mom replied back and said it's "fprgiven and forgotten" (she really likes me).

I responded back to her with this message.

Quote
XGF Mom,
Thank you. I appreciate hearing this from you. I feel so ashamed for sending that out; I was so angry that day – and that’s the worst time to take any action. This is such an ugly mess! I momentary lost my cool and brought all the ugliness out and in front of everyone. I hate the choices that are being made, yet at the same time I have to accept those choices. I cannot argue with how she feels because she truly does “feel” a desire to be with him. I think she’s running and OM was a “safe” person to be around. At this time she feels that at this time she needs this space from me – perhaps it’s permanent, perhaps not. Sadly, her actions with OM are making it more permanent every day.

This is the most difficult thing I’ve ever had to witness or endure. I love your daughter more than I have ever loved anyone and still do, but those words are inadequate and poor communication. They do not express what I really want to say. Nor does XGF who is allegedly “in love” with another person know what to do with that statement. I feel weary from this. 1 COR 13 says “love is patient.” Perhaps this is why I haven’t just “walked away.” Maybe I should, part of loving someone is letting them go should they choose to go because that same verse also says love is not “self seeking.” So I wait, I hope, I pray and I wait some more for XGF to land her thoughts and come to see reality – maybe for the first time in a very long time.

I’m sorry for getting side tracked. I’m sorry too for the awkwardness of the overall situation. I appreciate your forgiveness and I appreciate you letting me know. You are a great person. I’ve always enjoyed talking to you and I feel that you believe in a good future too for XGF and DS. XGF doesn’t realize what blessing she has in you. I love you as if you truly were my mother-in-law. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I also know “blood is thicker than mud” so that puts you in an uncomfortable spot if I communicate with you about her relationships or behavior. So especially I say again, thank you for your forgiveness.

I pray for her every day that she will safely land her thoughts and desires. I’ve been praying for you and your H too that he will see the reality in what he needs to do. Take care.
D

XGF called me a couple of hours after I sent this. She saounded sick and was out from work at her mom's house. She probably read the email - it was only sent to her mom. I did a good very good Plan A on the phone call (18 minutes). She asked why I was being so nice to her. I sd b/c it only wd hurt DS if we were nasty w/ each other. She then asked why I sent out that "horrible" email. I apologized and sd I was extreemly mad at her that day & I couldn't think clearly.

She did something she's NEVER done just then: she said she's sincerely sorry for the pain she's caused me and that I must be going through a personal h*ll b/c of this. I sd it's been tough but I'm moving on with my life. I sd that was the worst of it on Tuesday and I felt really bad and sent out the apology. She sd I can't believe you sent that to all "my" friends. I sd I know, I felt bad for doing that. I told her to get some rest today and that I'd pray for her & DS to feel better and then we hung up.

For her to call me is a big step. I don't think she's mad, but I can tell she's still concerned about the ramifications. She sd she talked to everyone the email went out to and that she had to explain.

I think today's call was very beneficial. I'm planning to lay low over the weekend. I'll have DS with me so I'm sure she'll call about him. When she does &/or when I see her I'm going to be as cheerful & happy as possible. No R talk thhough. I'm just going to be the "sweet" guy she's always liked me to be.

Please give me you thoughts about this - please. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> And any other advice as to what I can do. Having replies is an encouragement.
Thanks,
D


Love never fails. Me 34 Divorced GF 29 Never married DS 1 What a treasure!

Moderated by  Fordude 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Forum Search
Who's Online Now
1 members (jah), 137 guests, and 52 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Newest Members
Ardent Center, Lost@1969, Jmoor9090, Confused1980, Bibbyryan860
71,843 Registered Users
Building Marriages That Last A Lifetime
Copyright © 1995-2019, Marriage Builders®. All Rights Reserved.
Site Navigation
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5