Linda,

Thanks. I will e-mail you when I need to.

That post you posted to my H was very good. I wonder if my H will get it. I don't think he ever will. He is still upset about the whole incident and tells me he can't believe I think it was ok and normal. I said, "It wasn't ok and when I say it was normal, I mean anger can trigger that and I let the anger take over. It wasn't extraordinary."

Him and I never agree on the same sentences. We see the same sentence totally different. It was never like this pre-A. What happened to our similarities?? It's like he lost them once the A started. We still get along good, but we don't see eye to eye anymore. I don't get it.

--Sarah

Sarah,


Quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

There is a way to talk to me about things and this isn't one of them !



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



I guess that makes two of us who don't know how to talk to you, me and Sorry. I don't care about me, just figure it out with your H.

I refuse to sugar-coat my remarks to you like all your fellow BS's do. Thanks to them, you're no further in recovery than day 1. They obviously hate hearing from a FWS because FWS's have no right to express pain or frustration, and we are NEVER right, or trying hard enough. Keep receiving your IC on this forum, and I'll guarantee the failure of your M. Maybe you have some P/A issues of your own.

I still cannot believe what you did to your DD, and how your loyal BS's made excuses for your behavior. Geeze, what's the world coming to when an adult can consciously hurt their own child because of something they had no responsibility for. You sadden me.

Done venting,

KJ

KJ, EXCUSE ME but NO ONE is "making excuses" for CO. We do "understand" what drives her behavior though. AND I am BOTH a FWS and a BS. So last night when I lost myself and screamed cursing at my H, it is all my fault right because I can't control how much pain I can take? Do you have ANY idea how much it hurts to be repeatedly lied to and then told to "get over it"? That is essentially what IAM has done to CO and then when he can't stand the heat...he bails out. Oh fine! If he was so d*mned worried about the welfare of his kids he would not have had an A and he would be telling his W the entire truth from the gate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh and BTW, you do a darn fined job "sugar coating" your words to IAM.

Look people, I don't disagree with ANYTHING you have said about CO and Sorry. You're missing my point entirely. All I want, is for CO to acknowledge that what she did to DD was wrong. She should apologize to DD. She should take every precaution to prevent it from happening in the future. I am advocating for DD and DD only. I don't want to hear any more excuses for THIS behavior, and THIS behavior only. Understood?! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

KJ

She did apologize to DD. She said it right here in her thread. She did acknowledge what she did. KJ, hon...you haven't been on this side of things. This is THE most painful, horrible experience being a BS. You are taking things too personally.

FF,

I can't help it. Like I've said, I work with children in a county human services agency. I simply cannot and will not remain quiet and unemotional when I hear about a child being treated like this. We have a program here called "Children in the Middle," and this is exactly the type of scenerio we deal with day in and day out. Comments like what CO told her DD are often down-played by adults. Sad to say, children internalize EVERYTHING said to them, and rarely forget.

Yes, I am taking this too personally, so I'll stop now.

KJ

KJ,
I am leaving work for the day and won't be able to reply 'til either late tonight or tomorrow morning. I do have some stuff to comment about.

C-ya later.

--Sarah

I don't think I've ever posted to you before, but I've been following your thread and your H's thread, it caught my interest because I see that your H lied for months about the extent of the A just as mine did.

Anyway, I've been really confused as to the advice you've been getting here from posters that don't see a thing wrong with you spewing questions, comments, judgements, etc about the A every time the mood strikes you. Have you read Surviving an Affair? Dr. Harley says pretty clearly (when talking about recovery after the A) that bringing up the A non-stop (or at all) is a pretty big no-no...and LB'ing your H with resentment just keeps the resentment alive in your mind, you really need to be concentrating on building a better Marriage if that's what you want. Sometimes I get the feeling that you don't want to let go of the resentment, probably because you are afraid of getting hurt like that again, I don't know....but I do know that outbursting with resentful comments to your child is a result of not dealing with it (not really trying to put it behind you).. and don't kid yourself that she will 'forget' or didn't understand what you were saying..kids don't forget and they understand more than you think....it's going to stay with her for a long time and I hope your H also talks to her and makes sure she knows none of this is her fault.

I find it interesting that if your H was still in contact with the OW and still 'foggy' the advice would be to plan A your butt off if you want to save your M...Your H came out of the fog pretty quickly, dumped the OW and is sure that being married to you is what he wants....and the advice you receive is...too bad so sad that he doesn't like to hear about the A every single day...???

Believe me, I KNOW how freaking bad this crap hurts, it's like nothing I've ever felt before, but dwelling on it as you do is going to do nothing for your Marriage recovery or your own personal recovery...and he probably can't even understand himself why he did certain things while having the A, he was chasing the addiction...asking him constantly is going to accomplish nothing...my H still shakes his head in disbelief at the memory of what he did...

If you have read SAA already, read it again..especially the chapter on overcoming resentment...better yet, call the Harleys and do at least one session if that's all you can afford...

amazing...It just amazes me how a thread can die a sudden death as soon as there are a couple of posts pointing out how things 'aren't' working for you...I have a lot of hope for you cheated_on...and i privately pull for the recovery of your marriage everytime i read a post from you or your H...but I'm afraid that you don't want to see that there are things YOU could be doing to move the recovery process along...I agree that your H has the majority of the burden of making things right, but that's not going to happen if every time he makes a move forward, you slam him back from FWS status to WS status with a word or a comment...there is a difference you know, and as bad as you feel right now, there are many people here on this board that would give anything to be in your position.,,

I am so grateful for the 'not so supportive' of my pity party posts that I received during this ****** we here call an affair...if Pep hadn't have basically posted to me that I was in denial about my H's A (that it was an EA and not a PA), I would have floated down that river forever, instead I opened my eyes and refused to give up until I had the whole truth...amazingly, as devastating as that truth was, it has helped me soooo much in my quest to move along and recover a better life from the ****** I've been through since D-day..
I won't be posting again, I really do have a life to get on with, I just came out of lurking because your sitch so much reflected mine and I thought maybe I could help you onto a more healing path...your family deserves that and I hope your future is as bright as i know it can be...God Bless you

Yes you can help it - I have close involvement with CPS agency workers and the ones who cannot keep an objective mind and carry on, out of control emotionally and excusing it "because of the poor little kiddies" are removed from the agency PDQ. They need people whom can advocate for the kids without turning it into WWIII and spreading angry invective all over the place. You are not even reading CO's posts - you care about her DD so much you managed to ignore her posting in which she talks of apologizing to her daughter. So when are you going to apologise to all the BSs you have attacked on here and to CO for accusing her of being PA.

I suggest you pay attention to your own needs until you are strong and calm enough to function objectively on these boards.

I am thinking you might be in a manic phase and that makes everything exacerbated for you. Perhaps you should avoid threads that push your buttons. Being BP is a heavy load to carry when you are so angry at all BS and so over the top about kids. You don't even know this child or her capabilities to cope with the situation or bounce back.. YOU DON"T KNOW

If IASS was such am amazing parent, he would not have stepped out on his family and lied about it consistently. He would not put his BS down on stead of supporting her and plan Aing her. A few token dates or gifts, do not heal the lies and refusal to tell the truth or the manipulation.

SP

She is still waiting for the truth from her WH - she can't even get the hurt out at all until he comes clean without holding back. I too have read SAA and talked with Dr, Bill and he told me directly that lies and refusing to address the truth about the A will make it impossible for the BS to move into recovery, (which is after the truth is out) and she has a chance to put everything in place and begin to take charge of her pain. IASS still will not sit and answer her questions. He still wants to decide what she should know and what she shouldn't. There is not POJA from him - so much for being out of the fog. He is busy judging her efforts and LBing her by not allowing free honesty. Everything he does has a tag on it and the prices on the tags are too high. They all involve her "getting over it" his way.

IASS should be plan A ing her, not setting all the rules and playing victim.

You obviously do not realise how recent her discovery was and how much he will not discuss. He has made his bed and doesn't want to lay on it.

He still will not discuss on his thread, anything about why he felt it was OK to have the A - he will not look into himself, just posts about how - when he makes the rules, she acts out as if she is in pain.

I think you need to go and help him do his part and then she may be able to get enough truth to start rationalizing things.

SP

I am not a BS, in fact I am a FWS. I do however know the pain of being a BS as I was cheated on during a long term (4 yrs) relationship. I don't think a piece of paper dictates how much pain a person feels when they have been cheated on. Morally and ethically there may be a difference but I consider myself to have been of both sides of the fence. I understand CO's need to know the truth, the whole truth, but the fact is that she is not providing a SAFE ENVIRONMENT for her H to do that. I can't blame him one bit for not wanting to give her more ammunition. More details to repeatedly throw in his face to show him what scum he is. More details to share with their children and other friends and family. That is not going to lead to the recovery of their M. The A is over and as far as I'm concerned what happens between the two of them and what is said between the two of them should STAY between the two of them unless it is mutually agreed upon to share with with others. IASS may have already caused irreversable damage to his M but IMO CO is doing the exact same thing.

can we all agree that what BOTH of you are doing is wrong???

i just posted to your hubby and now im gonna post to you....i was sitting back and reading all of this.....

are you really ready to save this marriage and heal??? i ask because you and your husband both keep insisting on doing things YOUR own way....i asked him and im gonna ask you....HOW'S THAT WORKING FOR YOU????

if your serious, stop making excuses and start working on healing. stop making excuses and start getting serious help for your marriage. the real victims at the end of this will be your children who cant do anything......

KJ



You forgot the part before this which was, "I don't feel your personal attack is appropriate here."

I had no issue with what you were saying to me, I just didn't understand why you had to go on my other thread to say it. Why didn't you come on this thread where it is going on? That is why I said about a way to talk to me.



Are you serious, thanks to them???? How about thanks to my H???? First of all, let me also say how would you know where I am in recovery when you're not even following my thread?? If you were following it like FF said, you would have known I apologized to my DD the next morning and I also took responsibility for MY mistake!

Now, back to the recovery, I beleive my H would even admit he has hindered the recovery process with all of his lies. Every time I start moving forward in recovery, I am slapped in the face with another "incident" my H decided to leave out of his story. And the worst part, I have to find it out for myself. My H won't tell me. THAT, KJ, IS WHY RECOVERY IS TAKING LONG.

Now, as far as anyone "justifying" my actions with my DD, I never got that impression. This should end this dispute once and for all and I am not ashamed to say it:

WHAT I SAID TO MY DD WAS WRONG! THERE IS NO JUSTIFICATION OR EXCUSE FOR IT, PERIOD!!!!

I also apologized last night to my H too b/c I know it upset him. It was a mistake.

As far as everyone talking about my recovery process, I agree that I should not be throwing it in my H's face every day, every minute, every hour. I never said that is OK and no one here has told me it was ok either. Some days I am bad with that, I admit that too. But I am doing A LOT better than when I first found out about the A and I believe I am making progress with that.

My main problem with moving forward, (and YES, I even admit I have a problem with moving forward in recovery) is that I still think my H is lying to me about things. I put SO MUCH time and effort into recovery up until April and then to find out more major details about the A (and not by my H, BTW, on my own) and to know that all of the time, effort, and money we put into counseling was pointless, yeah, I'm scared to move forward again. I think I have every right to be. I believe a lot of people in my position would feel the same way. Now, don't go judging me on this. I realize not everyone is like me. I realize there are people on here that would be able to still move forward. Everyone has a right to their own opinion. And my BELIEF is that I have every right to be scared and cautious. I feel my H and I both need to work on ourselves first before we can get back into MC together.

And I still have doubts that my H has NC with OW. I'm at the point where I wouldn't even be surprised to hear that he is still in contact with OW.

I work full-time. My H works part-time and makes his own hours. I can't keep track of his every minute. He could easily still be calling her or she could even be living here for all I know. All I have to say is if he is still in contact with OW, I will find out and I'm done, period! People on here want to talk about playing games, that is one game I won't play.

I hope I addressed what everyone wrote, and I appreciated everyone's comments.

I'm trying, people, I really am!

--Sarah

Right after the A, I did things the way everyone else wanted me to, my counselor, my family, my H, etc., I got burned time after time. I'm done with doing things everybody else's way. That is what I did my whole life, I was always pleasing everyone but myself. Look where that got me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />.

So call me selfish, but it is time to focus on myself and work on me!! I am going to do things my way. And when I say my way, I mean IC by myself, healing at my own pace, working on me!!!

When my H and I take care of ourselves first, then we can do it togther. I refuse to do things the way my H wants me to and I refuse to go to counseling with him until he makes some major changes in himself.

So that is where I am right now. I don't know if it's good or bad. I'll let my counselor decide.

--Sarah

So when do you start venting to me instead of letting it build up so you explode on him. If you are feeling confrontational in response to his desiring you to do things "his way at his pace" it is better to get the anger out and talk yourself through it with a sounding board, until you see a way to bring it to him and yet not lose control - not for him, but for you. this is invaluable as we cannot often afford a therapist to do this to or with. This is a "talk to a stranger easier" thing. It will build your belief in being able to control something to do with him, even if it is only your own response and the intensity of it. Also being so angry and not yet being able to dissociate from his stimulus, is very exhausting physically and emotionally. So bring it on sister - pretend I am him and let me have it - pretend I am his best friend who is supporting all he does and has done.

If you do it on this thread you must preface it with "no replies - vent for SP" - so that people reading it casually will not jump the gun attack you for content. If you do it privately - then obviously it will not be necessary to subject it as anything else than Vent.

this will enable you to begin to see clearly exactly what you need - what you have to do to fulfil those needs on your end and to benefit from the great expanse of experience you see here.

It took us 42minths to get to true recovery - so I understand the fear of fresh start after fresh start - but if you do want to recover your marriage at some point - we can help you do the best job on you for now to get you to the point you feel safer and this terrible fear of "him" destroying you with more pain is not such a big thing. It can and will happen.

If I had posted here more and got the kind of help you have, instead of feeling ashamed and holding back because I was failing to do as well as I saw others doing, - I would have done soooo much better.

Please take the help that is here for you - I am a long way away from where I was. Four years ago I was so sure we were in recovery, over and over, and believed everything he said, I sounded like KJ each time, each "new" start. I didn't even register until two years of "fake" recoveries and finding out more lies.

You are here - don't get hung up by your natural resistance to those who try to get through to you - pain makes us all resistant - it bogs us down. You can choose to do things your way - we all do, but have enough input and support to do it in a constructive planned route - not a fearful painful explosive way.

sp

I guess KJ doesn't have anything else to say since she can't argue about anything I wrote?? Do you ever come on to post to me about positive things???

No comments from anyone else??

Thishurts,



Says who, my H? Since when do I take anything he says as the 100% truth? As I mentioned before, I would NOT be surprised to learn he is still in contact with the OW. Only time will tell, and it will be my time b/c he sure wouldn't fess up to it if he is <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />!

Anyway, I want to quote myself here b/c I have an issue. Here is what I said:



I answered this in response to a post about my H not feeling "safe" to answer my questions b/c I will use it as ammo. Why all of a sudden does he need to feel safe.....b/c it won't benefit him? He felt "safe" enough to have an A on me knowing how I felt about A's and my personality but continued to do it.

But know b/c he doesn't feel "safe" answering questions he doesn't have to? I don't think so!! That's not the way it works in my world. I'm not saying I have a right to bring it up as ammo but it just makes me sooooo mad to know he felt "safe" enough to have an A but not "safe" enough to answer my questions.

Doesn't make much sense to me. I am tired of him only having to do things that benefit him.

--Sarah

sarah......i dont know what to say. i know the stance you are in...spent a long time there myself. it doesnt work. we are trying to help you with what will work, your husband also. but when we suggest something you both have "your own" way. thats fine, i cant make you change but i can predict the outcome.......

people get frustrated when posters come on here and want help but then dont follow what has been proven to work....if you are set on doing things a certain way and not what is suggested from people who have been there and done it.......what do we say to you?

in the end you will be right.......the choice is now do you want to be right or do you want to be married? sometimes both do not coincide.........