Hello to old friends that know me, and hello to others that don't from London.

Well, not really in a happy place to be back, but I thought I would post, more than anything, because I wanted to dump some thoughts down.

For those of you who know me a little update. Pound Man married ShineyHead and baby XXX was probably born last month, around the time Pound Man turned 50!!!! Shocking stuff to me that someone could move on so quickly and with such ease, but hey!! There you go.

Me, going OK, still struggling with things like that news that affected me deeply. I suppose it was a shock, not that I thought it should be me or wanted it to be, but it made me realise what an impact marriage and divorce can have on different people. Me, obviously different from him.
It made me realise how far you go together and then apart. How choices in your life can lead you to such different places.

Moving on, I have been dating since July 04 - a really really nice person I thought, but I guess some people might say "what comes around goes around". I always thought that BF was really good, true and honest. I was very honest with him up front about my situation but said that because of that honesty was the most important thing to me. If there was someone else that he was interested in and wanted to go off with, fine, but tell me and then I could make my own choices based on that.

Well, it turns out that the really really nice honest person I thought he was, wasn't. It gets a bit complicated here, so bear with me. Last summer we split up for a while. Not long, a couple of weeks maximum. When we got back together he told me he had gone out with someone a few times and wasn't sure if he wanted to continue that or get back with me. Well, we got back together, but things were odd so often and I couldn't quite put my finger on why. I kept asking him to tell me about the person he went out with (I knew it was someone he worked with and therefore I knew of that person), but he just wouldn't tell me anything, even her name.

Long story short, he had slept with her and had unprotected sex. I found out last weekend. The worst bit was the depth and breadth of the lies that he told me. Even when he finally confessed last Sunday (the day after my birthday, nice eh?), my first question was "Did you have safe sex". I asked him over and over, and it was only on Tuesday evening that after asking him to swear on his mother's life he admitted that he hadn't.

OK, were we technically together - NO. Although in his heart and mine we were still attached. We aren't married (mind you I'm not sure whether I could ever get married again). Can I forgive that he professed to love me so much that literally 3 days later he went and slept with someone else, probably yes. I know what it's like to do foolish things. But he took my choice away,he broke our pact and the final betrayal was that he actually messed with my health and life and then made a story up about it. He told about 5 lies in one sentence to convince me he had safe sex.

The test results are negative (thankfully), but I just don't know what to do. We have always had an up and down relationship and I questioned whether I was really ready to be in a relationship a year after divorce. But he was such a good person I thought I'd give it a go. At times though, I realise now, it was him that was creating a situation, not me. I can't begin to tell you how many times recently he has accused me of sleeping with other people, picking fights, being really difficult etc etc. I think it was 2Long that used to say "It's that invisible elephant in the middle of the room that you keep tripping over". I thought it was me, my inability. I honestly thought I wasn't capable of having a relationship because of some of the things that were happeing between us.

But do you know, I am so proud of the way I have behaved, because I can sit "outside the box" and know I have been there and done that. I know how foolish you can be, I know how lieing becomes second nature, I know the pain that he is going through, because he is a good person. He has done some bad things but he isn't a bad person.

When he first told me that he had been with someone else, I immediately forgave him, because I could understand how it happened. Actually when he told me who it was, I had already told him she was bonkers and he should back away from her. I do forgive him for the act (although it still turns my stomach), but all the lies, and the biggest one of all at the end about safe sex is really really hard to deal with.

Ironically, this has made me realise that although I thought I was too complacent about the relationship, I did love him, but did I love him enough, because of my devastation and pain, it has made me realise how very much I do love him.

It's funny, I don't know if I really need any advice from MB. I know I shouldn't make any decisions in haste, I know it's going to hurt for a long time yet, I know exactly what he's going through, I guess I wanted somewhere which was safe where I could speak and no-one would judge me.

I know that if I decide to stay with him, I will need to really commit properly to him. I think he would accept that I wouldn't necessarily marry again, but to set up home together or whatever. I'm so bloody cross with him though. I thought he knew better, I thought he was better. He is a very spiritual person and I think the depth of his deception has shocked him terribly. I know that he loves me, and (as much as I can) I know he wouldn't lie to me again.

Thanks for listening folks.

Lisa

Hey girfriend...you know my thoughts on this (although I think I have some things to add to those thoughts...), but wanted to give you a cyber {{{{{{{{{{{hug}}}}}}}}}}. Left you a message...

BB

Hi Lisa.

Dump him.

You deserve a real man.

WAT

Hi BB - I just missed your call. I am off to Brighton for the weekend shortly but will try and call you before I leave.

WAT - that's the best laugh I've had all week !!! Thanks for that. Immediate reaction was that I deserved to be treated better, but is it possible that something like this could really make me realise that I do really love him....

You know what? I told him all about me and I told him that if he ever met anyone, I would be the least likely person ever to cheat on him because I never wanted to go back to that horrible place. Ironic really....

Lisa

Something like this certainly defines the depth of your emotional attachment.

That has NOTHING to do with what you deserve and what you should seek!

Remember, this sorta love is conditional. It will fade. It's already started.

Dump him.

Cut your losses.

Find a real man.

This is no joke! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

WAT

Blimey, not sure about this new look board, thought I had posted something, but not so sure now!

WAT, what do you mean:

"Remember, this sorta love is conditional. It will fade. It's already started."

Do you mean because of my uncertainty anyway?

I know you weren't joking, it just made me laugh because it was so direct and to the point! I know you were being serious.

I have my weekend away which will give me time to rest and consider. I am very tired.

Not exactly, but maybe your uncertainty is an indicator.

What I specifically meant was that his actions must have already been a drain on your love bank. His account balance is lower - closer to zero, right? Zero balance = no love.

Marriage Builders 101. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

WAT

Howdy Lisa! I agree very much with WAT, and think you should run for the hills. You are so very lucky that you found out in ADVANCE of marriage what he is really like and what you can expect in a marriage. Most people aren't so fortunate to know all this before they really commit.

It makes your decision much easier, in that if you do pursue this relationship with him, you know EXACTLY what you will be getting: a partner who lies and cheats and exposes you to STDs. If those are acceptable traits in a marriage partner, then you have your man. If not, you should run for your life. If you DO pursue this relationship with him and this happens again, which it likely will, you won't be surprised or hurt.

Sorry you are back here, hope it is the LAST time! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Hey Lisa,

I think WAT is saying that you did not realize you felt any "love" until you lost him, it was conditional on him being a cad. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> If you truely love someone, it should NOT be a surprise to YOU of all people.

Must go, sorry you are back, glad to hear from you again.

God Bless,

JL

Thanks WAT for reminding me of No. 101 something to remember! I do appreciate you taking the time to come back here and help me out.

ML - yes you make good sense in what you say. I suppose the reason I have been thinking about this so much, is because I know how easy it is to get into such a situation. I know that we all make mistakes and can fall from the wagon. Technically, we were separated, he didn't cheat. But boy oh boy did he lie, and exposing me to STDs is hugely irresponsible and cruel. Thank you for laying it out so directly for me.

How lovely to hear from my old friend JL. I think that is the point and what I can't get my head around. It was a surprise. I should have known, but I didn't but I think a lot of my uncertainty sprang from his behaviour. One of the things that really upsets me is that I was questioning whether or not I was capable of being in a relationship. I kept thinking "it must be me" because of what I have done in the past. And that just wasn't the case. I was happy to take things slowly, be certain, and of course it was all an illusion.

Why do I still have doubts then about seeing this through and on? Why can't I just say, "You're dumped". Everything that everyone has said here makes such good sense to me. Do you think it's because I feel that I was no better at one point in my life. I did all those things too, but in fact I was worse because I was married? Do you think it's because Pound Man never really gave me a chance to prove that I could change and become a better person, and I want to give him that chance?

Questions, questions, so much going around in my head. So much upset. I knew I could never cheat again because of the pain it caused me. I had being here because this is painful too but the other way round. I actually feel hugely sympathetic for him.

Thanks to all my old pals here. I'm sorry I came back in a crisis. But I was happy to be able to move forward and move on with my life. I never forgot people and the support and love they gave me.

Lisa

Please don't allow sympathy and your own lingering feelings of guilt lead you into an unwise marriage with an unreliable man. (Actually, he is reliable - you can rely on him to cheat and expose you to diseases.) Your past sins in no way mean that you deserve to be trampled on. You cannot, and should not attempt to make an atonement.

If you marry him, by the next time he cheats on you, you may have one or more children to have their hearts broken by adultery. You are so fortunate to have the chance to avoid this.

BTW, nice to meet you.

Nice to meet you too NSYN! Thank you for your time and thoughts. But isn't he capable of change? I certainly was and I would hate to be "branded" a WS for the rest of my life. People change, people grow and from bad things happening perhaps you can get to a better place.

When WS come here, people give them support and care. I only ever (well mainly) had so many people giving me good advice and support. People weren't cruel to me, they knew that I realised what a fool I had been and that I wanted to try and put things right. I know I seem like I am trying to justify things, but there is this big part of me that doesn't want to let him go.

I wish it were so simple to let go, but I do think he is a good person and that he realises he has been a fool. I don't think he would do it again. Really I don't.

Why is this so hard for me?????

Lisa

You are looking at him through your heart, not through your eyes. That's why it's so hard to see what it is you don't want to see.

Remember the "fog"???

Step back, take some time and really think hard about whether this is what you want...

Best wishes
SD

Thank you SD. I really really don't think he is likely to do this again. I think that is why I've not been prepared to just finish it on the spot. I honestly think he is inherently a good person. I think he is very lost right now, but I know he is already trying to prove that he can change. I know he realises he has messed up, and he desperately wants a chance to put it right. For me, it's lots of different things:
1. Do I believe he will do something like this again - NO
2. Can I forget and let go of what has happened - not sure
3. Am I prepared to move forward to a different level of this relationship is it continues - not sure.

You are very right though. I will not be pressured into making decisions quickly or in the midst of the pain and upset that there currently is.

Thank you everyone for taking the time to post to me.

Lisa

Lisa,

It is all good to give him another chance. But, why don't you list what he has changed in his actions. What he has set out to change in himself. What are HIS plans to avoid doing this again.

If you recall, when you posted this was requested of you. You had to face yourself and decide what needed to be changed and then in fact did just that.

But, Lisa I guess it is just my feelings of protection towards you. Just because you made a huge mistake before, it does not invalidate your having a relationship/marriage to a good man that loves you deeply and to whom you can return the love.

When you said you were surprised you loved him, I am thinking if it surprised you, it really was not there. Love is a verb and if you had not in the past been moved to act in love, not feel in love, then I have my concerns. Does this make sense to you.

God Bless,

JL

Hi Lisa!

-ol' 2long

Hi Lisa, nice to meet you, too.

It's not that I don't think people can change; I am still watching my FWH change. But before he wandered off the primrose path, he had demonstrated years of marital loyalty, building a history that was difficult for either of us to walk away from without at least trying to fix.

My honest belief is that for someone to show such shocking disregard for faithfulness and committment before marriage, that it shows a character flaw too severe to risk the happiness of you and your children on it. Yes, people change, and yes, maybe he will change, but the odds are not nearly as good when you are so early into a relationship, because he hasn't shown you a stable person over a period of years - he has been unstable from right by the beginning.

I would not want to see you hurt again, and especially I would not want to see any potential children hurt again, having seen firsthand what awful damage is done by affairs, even when it turns out all right in the end.

All the best!

Hello everyone, I have been away at the weekend, and had a really bad day yesterday. I was very tearful and overly tired and vulnerable. I think the effects really hit me, but I am having a day off work today and am trying to catch up with myself. I am so very tired.

JL, you always make such good sense, it's like you really really do know me! I suppose you do in cyber space! BF has already made some positive steps towards change, he has set up a councillor appointment for next week, he has started to address his living situation (which I didn't think was particualrly good), he has addressed some work issues, he has been going to some of his spiritual activities too. I did say to him that it was something we both needed to do. I want to see if he really understands and realises the damage that he has done and how his actions will prove that he is capable of being responsible (or not).

Hello NSYN - I am sorry to hear of your situation and I hope that it has been improving with time and your M is recovering. I think what you say is true. You had many years of history and devotion something worth wanting to save. I think if he wasn't bothered, if he was flippant about the situation or if he hadn't even told me himself, I would agree. But fundamentally, I think this was something very much out of character for him, and he did finally do the right thing and stand up and be counted. And part of me does think "I just don't deserve to have been treated like this and I could easily find someone worthy of me who wouldn't lie so badly and risk my health". The thing that stops me is that I don't think he would do it again. How do I know? I don't, but then none of us do. Blind trust goes doesn't it?

And of course there is the love issue coupled with this, JL. I don't think I have explained myself terribly well about the surprise I felt at the hurt and love mixed up together. I always knew I loved him, but I felt uncertain if I could ever be in another full flung relationship. One where you live together or marry. I still don't think I could marry again, it scares me so much as an institution. I suppose my surprise was that I didn't just walk away from him, I didn't just think of it as an excuse to end and move away from him and a more casual commitment. I feel hugely devasted by this, and if we are to recover this R, then I would know that the level of commitment would have to change. That is what he would want, and some of my surprise comes from the fact that I am really thinking hard about it, not just saying "Naah, not bothered about that"

It is still very confusing for me, and I still feel deeply hurt and let down. But I think that I need to make a decision one way or the other by this weekend. I know that once that is done, although the hurt won't go away, I will be able to move forward either with or without him. I suppose there's nothing to say I can't give it my best shot with him and then see what happens anyway, see if he really is changing and whether I am too. As ever, I know I'm difficult, I know my flaws!!

Thank you friends. Hey 2Long, what's been going on with you????? Is Rat Meat Long Gone Meat? I very much hope so, I admire your courage and strength.

Lisa

Well Lis, I wish you all the happiness in the world. Addressing the spiritual issues is very important, and it is good that he is working on other things that need to change, also.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />